[HN Gopher] Spanish minister proposes EUR20k 'universal inherita...
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Spanish minister proposes EUR20k 'universal inheritance' from age
of 18
Author : manuel_w
Score : 33 points
Date : 2023-07-06 20:26 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| 4g wrote:
| Israel introduced a similar concept in 2017 that deposits a small
| amount of money monthly into a savings or investing account for
| each child, money can be withdrawn at the age of 18, or later at
| 21 with a small bonus.
|
| https://www.btl.gov.il/English%20Homepage/Benefits/Children/...
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Are there enough rich people in Spain to redistribute and give
| everyone aged 18+ EUR20k?
| germandiago wrote:
| No. And every spanish is in 35,000 eur debt.
| Tade0 wrote:
| [flagged]
| thegrim33 wrote:
| Well, if just counting all the billionaires [1], they have a
| total net worth of ~135 billion, and there's currently ~47MM
| people in Spain [2], so if you sent out the stormtroopers and
| forcefully confiscated every last penny of net worth from all
| the billionaires, and redistributed it equally, each person
| would get a one-time payment of ~2,800. I'd theorize that the
| resulting destruction to the economy/country in the process
| would probably ultimately wipe more wealth from the people than
| 2,800 per person, but hey, maybe not.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_billionaires_b...
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain
| jahnu wrote:
| > ~47MM people in Spain ... and redistributed it equally
|
| I know the OP asked that but isn't this really about future
| people turning 18 which would be massively fewer people and
| roll along every year?
| activiation wrote:
| Interesting idea
| CraigRo wrote:
| Gamble on La Liga, and when you are bankrupt, go apply for
| welfare, because you are now poor.
| simonblack wrote:
| I think that would be a great idea. Except that I would put the
| age of receiving that inheritance at about 30.
|
| It's one of the ironies of life that when you are young you have
| time but no money, and when you are old you have money and no
| time.
|
| Think how great it would be if you got that money while you were
| still young enough to use it, and old enough to use it wisely.
| helpfulclippy wrote:
| Exactly. There's a lot of danger waiting for you when you grow
| up and leave home. Money would certainly solve some problems,
| but if everyone knew every 20 year old had a big check they
| could go get a piece of, it will cause many more problems.
|
| 30 year olds will also have the same bullseye painted on their
| backs, but will at least have experience.
| mike_hock wrote:
| Experience with what? A sudden 20k windfall?
|
| This will create an industry that is centered solely around
| milking 30 year-olds for every penny they're worth as soon as
| they turn 30 and then drop them like a hot potato.
|
| This will drive up prices immensely because there's a
| continuous stream of people turning thirty and your hard-
| earned 20k is worth the same as their 20k that just fell from
| the sky.
|
| It's a completely insane idea, and it doesn't solve any
| problems. When the 20k is gone, it's gone. It's precisely the
| people who need it the most that are the least likely to
| stuff it in the bank.
| thrawa8387336 wrote:
| It's a people problem not a tech... sorry, money problem.
| tcmart14 wrote:
| I wonder if to address this, we could do something slightly
| different. There is definitely a danger here. Hang out around
| a military base where a bunch of young men got back from
| deployment and see how many of them are driving BMWs. When I
| was in the Navy, my junior sailors would blow all the money
| they made on deployment on shitty cars and strippers.
|
| Maybe instead of just cutting a $20K check, perhaps an
| account that allows certain purchases. Like here is $20K, it
| is pre-authorized to use it to pay for tuition for a college
| or trade school. Pre-authorized for medical expenses. And
| perhaps other things, but you can't exactly go out and blow
| it on cars and strippers. Then perhaps with a, if you don't
| use it by 25, you can roll it into your 401K?
| goodbyesf wrote:
| Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs (
| welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it
| with a universal yearly $20K.
|
| The only downside is that it would collapse the war machine
| since no 18 year old will sign up for the military.
| xsmasher wrote:
| Some people are not equipped to handle that responsibly.
| They'll promise it to rent-a-center in perpetuity and still
| be hungry halfway through the month.
| JimtheCoder wrote:
| "Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs (
| welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it
| with a universal yearly $20K."
|
| Because next election cycle, some politician will set
| themselves apart by promising the 20k, plus a supplement for
| healthcare...and the whole circus begins again...
| lotsoweiners wrote:
| Aren't we currently experiencing inflation at least partially
| due to government stimulus handouts during Covid? I know
| there are multiple causes but free money certainly didn't
| help.
|
| Also, I think it is a good idea to keep government programs
| means tested and separate. If you give people 20k, the number
| of people who should be feeding their kids with the money but
| instead bought "new rims" for their 2007 Honda Civic is going
| to be much greater than zero.
| pcurve wrote:
| "welfare, healthchare, social security, etc"
|
| Healthcare: Some people get unlucky with genetic lottery and
| will require far more cost in care than others. Some type of
| universal coverage still needs to exist imho.
|
| Social security: Unfortunately, not everyone is good with
| money. Social security is a mechanism for balancing out and
| restributing wealth, but it's also an investing service for
| those who don't know how to.
|
| I'm not against some type of UBI, but there are some
| downsides with getting rid of existing programs. imho.
| jay_kyburz wrote:
| I _am_ against UBI for exactly the reason you outline.
| We'll still need all the agencies and bureaucracy to help
| those who just need more help.
| 6D794163636F756 wrote:
| I think you're right to an extent, but I think ubi could
| bridge the gap between necessary services and nice to
| have services. It could let someone who is on food stamps
| and housing assistance choose to upgrade one of those or
| for them to buy the technology needed to get their next
| job. There are pitfalls, but I think ubi could be a good
| way of allowing people to position themselves to no
| longer rely so heavily on other assistance programs or
| live a better life on their own terms if they can't
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| That's just debt, which everyone in the West is already
| swimming in.
| germandiago wrote:
| As a spanish who pays 47% PIT and a ton more taxes including
| 21% VAT, tax for having a property (only one!) and that I see
| how much money is wasted on top of a 113% official GDP debt...
| and I can tell you tjat to pay what I pay you do not need to
| make even 80,000 eur/year.
|
| Who do you propose it should pay those 20,000? This woman, who
| talks to people as if they were 10 yo or less, said "the rich
| people". Do you know how much of that proposal you can pay with
| "the rich" in Spain? Very little. And by very little I mean not
| even 5% of that, probably less (I did not make the exact
| numbers but I am pretty sure it won't go beyond that).
|
| If you knew politicians, especially spanish politicians, you
| should know that the only thing they want is more money
| controlled through their hands. You know why, right? We all
| know it...
|
| Every spanish has 35,000 eur debt right now. A great idea,
| yes... to charge pwople that did not ask you with more debt til
| services collapse.
| pkaye wrote:
| I think its election season in Spain.
| germandiago wrote:
| Yes, the 23rd.
| bsaul wrote:
| i wonder how those kinds of proposals are even legal. It's
| litteraly the equivalent of buying votes.
| MattRix wrote:
| so this is a problem but a politician promising giant tax
| cuts isn't?
| henvic wrote:
| How about just cutting taxes? Damn politicians love to rob Peter
| to pay Paul so much...
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