[HN Gopher] Spanish minister proposes EUR20k 'universal inherita...
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       Spanish minister proposes EUR20k 'universal inheritance' from age
       of 18
        
       Author : manuel_w
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2023-07-06 20:26 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | 4g wrote:
       | Israel introduced a similar concept in 2017 that deposits a small
       | amount of money monthly into a savings or investing account for
       | each child, money can be withdrawn at the age of 18, or later at
       | 21 with a small bonus.
       | 
       | https://www.btl.gov.il/English%20Homepage/Benefits/Children/...
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | Are there enough rich people in Spain to redistribute and give
       | everyone aged 18+ EUR20k?
        
         | germandiago wrote:
         | No. And every spanish is in 35,000 eur debt.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | thegrim33 wrote:
         | Well, if just counting all the billionaires [1], they have a
         | total net worth of ~135 billion, and there's currently ~47MM
         | people in Spain [2], so if you sent out the stormtroopers and
         | forcefully confiscated every last penny of net worth from all
         | the billionaires, and redistributed it equally, each person
         | would get a one-time payment of ~2,800. I'd theorize that the
         | resulting destruction to the economy/country in the process
         | would probably ultimately wipe more wealth from the people than
         | 2,800 per person, but hey, maybe not.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_billionaires_b...
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Spain
        
           | jahnu wrote:
           | > ~47MM people in Spain ... and redistributed it equally
           | 
           | I know the OP asked that but isn't this really about future
           | people turning 18 which would be massively fewer people and
           | roll along every year?
        
       | activiation wrote:
       | Interesting idea
        
       | CraigRo wrote:
       | Gamble on La Liga, and when you are bankrupt, go apply for
       | welfare, because you are now poor.
        
       | simonblack wrote:
       | I think that would be a great idea. Except that I would put the
       | age of receiving that inheritance at about 30.
       | 
       | It's one of the ironies of life that when you are young you have
       | time but no money, and when you are old you have money and no
       | time.
       | 
       | Think how great it would be if you got that money while you were
       | still young enough to use it, and old enough to use it wisely.
        
         | helpfulclippy wrote:
         | Exactly. There's a lot of danger waiting for you when you grow
         | up and leave home. Money would certainly solve some problems,
         | but if everyone knew every 20 year old had a big check they
         | could go get a piece of, it will cause many more problems.
         | 
         | 30 year olds will also have the same bullseye painted on their
         | backs, but will at least have experience.
        
           | mike_hock wrote:
           | Experience with what? A sudden 20k windfall?
           | 
           | This will create an industry that is centered solely around
           | milking 30 year-olds for every penny they're worth as soon as
           | they turn 30 and then drop them like a hot potato.
           | 
           | This will drive up prices immensely because there's a
           | continuous stream of people turning thirty and your hard-
           | earned 20k is worth the same as their 20k that just fell from
           | the sky.
           | 
           | It's a completely insane idea, and it doesn't solve any
           | problems. When the 20k is gone, it's gone. It's precisely the
           | people who need it the most that are the least likely to
           | stuff it in the bank.
        
             | thrawa8387336 wrote:
             | It's a people problem not a tech... sorry, money problem.
        
           | tcmart14 wrote:
           | I wonder if to address this, we could do something slightly
           | different. There is definitely a danger here. Hang out around
           | a military base where a bunch of young men got back from
           | deployment and see how many of them are driving BMWs. When I
           | was in the Navy, my junior sailors would blow all the money
           | they made on deployment on shitty cars and strippers.
           | 
           | Maybe instead of just cutting a $20K check, perhaps an
           | account that allows certain purchases. Like here is $20K, it
           | is pre-authorized to use it to pay for tuition for a college
           | or trade school. Pre-authorized for medical expenses. And
           | perhaps other things, but you can't exactly go out and blow
           | it on cars and strippers. Then perhaps with a, if you don't
           | use it by 25, you can roll it into your 401K?
        
         | goodbyesf wrote:
         | Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs (
         | welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it
         | with a universal yearly $20K.
         | 
         | The only downside is that it would collapse the war machine
         | since no 18 year old will sign up for the military.
        
           | xsmasher wrote:
           | Some people are not equipped to handle that responsibly.
           | They'll promise it to rent-a-center in perpetuity and still
           | be hungry halfway through the month.
        
           | JimtheCoder wrote:
           | "Why not 20K every year? Get rid of all government programs (
           | welfare, healthchare, social security, etc ) and replace it
           | with a universal yearly $20K."
           | 
           | Because next election cycle, some politician will set
           | themselves apart by promising the 20k, plus a supplement for
           | healthcare...and the whole circus begins again...
        
           | lotsoweiners wrote:
           | Aren't we currently experiencing inflation at least partially
           | due to government stimulus handouts during Covid? I know
           | there are multiple causes but free money certainly didn't
           | help.
           | 
           | Also, I think it is a good idea to keep government programs
           | means tested and separate. If you give people 20k, the number
           | of people who should be feeding their kids with the money but
           | instead bought "new rims" for their 2007 Honda Civic is going
           | to be much greater than zero.
        
           | pcurve wrote:
           | "welfare, healthchare, social security, etc"
           | 
           | Healthcare: Some people get unlucky with genetic lottery and
           | will require far more cost in care than others. Some type of
           | universal coverage still needs to exist imho.
           | 
           | Social security: Unfortunately, not everyone is good with
           | money. Social security is a mechanism for balancing out and
           | restributing wealth, but it's also an investing service for
           | those who don't know how to.
           | 
           | I'm not against some type of UBI, but there are some
           | downsides with getting rid of existing programs. imho.
        
             | jay_kyburz wrote:
             | I _am_ against UBI for exactly the reason you outline.
             | We'll still need all the agencies and bureaucracy to help
             | those who just need more help.
        
               | 6D794163636F756 wrote:
               | I think you're right to an extent, but I think ubi could
               | bridge the gap between necessary services and nice to
               | have services. It could let someone who is on food stamps
               | and housing assistance choose to upgrade one of those or
               | for them to buy the technology needed to get their next
               | job. There are pitfalls, but I think ubi could be a good
               | way of allowing people to position themselves to no
               | longer rely so heavily on other assistance programs or
               | live a better life on their own terms if they can't
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | That's just debt, which everyone in the West is already
         | swimming in.
        
         | germandiago wrote:
         | As a spanish who pays 47% PIT and a ton more taxes including
         | 21% VAT, tax for having a property (only one!) and that I see
         | how much money is wasted on top of a 113% official GDP debt...
         | and I can tell you tjat to pay what I pay you do not need to
         | make even 80,000 eur/year.
         | 
         | Who do you propose it should pay those 20,000? This woman, who
         | talks to people as if they were 10 yo or less, said "the rich
         | people". Do you know how much of that proposal you can pay with
         | "the rich" in Spain? Very little. And by very little I mean not
         | even 5% of that, probably less (I did not make the exact
         | numbers but I am pretty sure it won't go beyond that).
         | 
         | If you knew politicians, especially spanish politicians, you
         | should know that the only thing they want is more money
         | controlled through their hands. You know why, right? We all
         | know it...
         | 
         | Every spanish has 35,000 eur debt right now. A great idea,
         | yes... to charge pwople that did not ask you with more debt til
         | services collapse.
        
       | pkaye wrote:
       | I think its election season in Spain.
        
         | germandiago wrote:
         | Yes, the 23rd.
        
         | bsaul wrote:
         | i wonder how those kinds of proposals are even legal. It's
         | litteraly the equivalent of buying votes.
        
           | MattRix wrote:
           | so this is a problem but a politician promising giant tax
           | cuts isn't?
        
       | henvic wrote:
       | How about just cutting taxes? Damn politicians love to rob Peter
       | to pay Paul so much...
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-06 23:01 UTC)