[HN Gopher] Tea as Hepatoprotective Agent: A Revisit
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       Tea as Hepatoprotective Agent: A Revisit
        
       Author : anjel
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2023-07-06 18:19 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sci-hub.se)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sci-hub.se)
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | I've been a dedicated tea drinker since my teens, so this is
       | great news.
       | 
       | OTOH what I worry about is oesophageal cancer. Not sure of the
       | prevalence.
        
         | azeirah wrote:
         | Don't know any stats from the top of my head, but I recall that
         | oesophageal cancer is caused by drinking _hot_ tea, not by
         | drinking tea per se.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | > drinking _hot_ tea, not by drinking tea per se.
           | 
           | It is unclear to me that there is any way to drink tea than
           | other than piping hot.
           | 
           | I have heard horror stories that suggest people have
           | attempted to drink cold tea but I figure such tales are
           | merely intended to provoke disgust.
        
             | qzw wrote:
             | Cold tea does indeed provoke disgust. _Iced_ tea, on the
             | other hand, is quite its own art form.
        
             | tom_ wrote:
             | I've always found tea acceptable at a wide range of
             | temperatures. Room temperature to boiling, it's all good,
             | same as water. (But _not_ same as red wine or beer, the
             | other 2 types of liquid I will drink.)
             | 
             | I do admit this rule does very much not apply when mixing
             | tea with milk!
        
           | jemmyw wrote:
           | I usually cool my tea with a splash of milk. But I do then
           | drink it very quickly at an elevated temperature.
        
             | Cerium wrote:
             | Avoid drinking liquids hotter than 140 f.
             | 
             | One interesting "test" - take a sip of the liquid, and it
             | does not seem that hot, put your finger in your mouth with
             | the liquid and your finger might feel too hot.
        
               | karencarits wrote:
               | 140 degrees Fahrenheit = 60 degrees Celsius
        
               | mmh0000 wrote:
               | 140 degrees Fahrenheit = 344 kelvin
        
               | tom_ wrote:
               | Apparently it's more like 333 K.
        
               | malfist wrote:
               | Yeah but it's a dry kelvin
        
               | simondotau wrote:
               | As another data point, this is generally hotter than most
               | "hot" water taps in your kitchen or bathroom.
        
         | anjel wrote:
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32740163/
         | 
         | Compared to those who consumed <300 g/month tea leaves at
         | <=65degC, those who consumed more than 300 g/month tea leave at
         | >65degC had a more than 1.8-fold higher risk of esophageal
         | squamous cell carcinoma for both green tea and black tea.
        
           | amanj41 wrote:
           | As someone who doesn't know much about epidemiology, is 180%
           | relative risk considered scary for something with a fairly
           | low prevalence such as esophageal cancer?
        
           | Aerbil313 wrote:
           | We are the most tea-drinking country in the world afaik,
           | Turkey. We're fine, but one particular city (Erzurum) has a
           | weird tradition of putting a sugar under the tongue and
           | drinking the tea very hot to (probably?) dissolve it easily.
           | They drink it almost out of the teapot, boiling-hot. They
           | have very high rates of esophagous cancer.
        
       | FollowingTheDao wrote:
       | I have a Partial Purine nucleoside phosphorylase (PNP)
       | deficiency. It is a primary immunodeficiency. I cannot drink tea,
       | and green tea is the wqrst for me since catechins (primarily
       | EGCG) inhibits the PNP enzyme[1] as do quite a few other
       | "healthy" foods like curcumin.
       | 
       | It is best to know yourself and if tea makes you feel worse it
       | might not be good for you.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262327467_Natural_p...
        
         | kyleyeats wrote:
         | As someone with iron overload who benefits from green tea: It's
         | powerful stuff. One of the only chelators you can get that
         | targets the brain. I have the opposite effect and a green tea
         | addiction.
        
         | et2o wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. I'm a doctor. If you don't mind sharing,
         | out of curiosity how were you diagnosed with this? Not one of
         | the primary immunodeficiencies I see tested, but I'm not a
         | medical geneticist or pediatrician.
        
           | FollowingTheDao wrote:
           | Hey doc. Well, I had consistently low WBC counts
           | (leukopenia), skin infections, sinus infections, lung
           | infections (and nodules), as well as recurrent fungal
           | infections. Doctors offered no explanation.
           | 
           | In 2014 I had my genome run on 23andMe and through digging
           | and getting a second genome run I confirmed that I was
           | homozygous for rs1049564 (and other SNPs) in my PNP gene.
           | 
           | I was finally able to push for a PNP activity test which
           | revealed low activity. I do not think the doctors would have
           | ever tested for this.
           | 
           | Here is the paper that persuaded them to do the test:
           | https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Purine-nucleoside-
           | phosph...
           | 
           | Since it is only a partial deficiency it did not cause
           | catastrophic effects as a child, but as I got older it became
           | worse.
           | 
           | Here is a paper talking about the partial deficiency:
           | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32695102/
           | 
           | I also have neurological issues (mood disorder) that I blame
           | on the same deficiency.
        
             | ricksunny wrote:
             | Wow. I applaud this effort.
             | 
             | Been working on studying pharmacogenetics /
             | pharmacogenomics / toxicogenomics focused on phenols such
             | as catechins in tea. (Activity 'C' of https://docs.google.c
             | om/document/d/11f2bzMRbAgCJyoaEmxXKVytl... )
             | 
             | Would love to understand how you researched this, as
             | locating relevant research literature has been challenging.
             | 
             | (updating my user page with contact)
        
               | FollowingTheDao wrote:
               | Hey Rick, it took a lot of time and a lot of emails to
               | people researching the topic. But the key was the
               | doctor's constantly diagnosing me and then diagnosing me
               | with Lupus. Finding the link with Lupus and PNP SNPs was
               | the key. The Lupus diagnosis was always back and forth
               | because apparently PNP deficiency lowers immunoglobulin
               | levels as well and that is the test that gets you in the
               | door to the rheum only when it is high.
               | 
               | Many other phenol's and polyphenols seem to give me
               | issues as well.
               | 
               | Also, you might take a look at the interaction between
               | riboflavin and catechins. There is something going on
               | there I do not quite understand:
               | 
               | https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/9/10/1908
               | 
               | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6837740/
        
       | Alex3917 wrote:
       | Interesting, considering how many people get liver damage from
       | taking green tea extract and EGCg.
        
         | atomicnumber3 wrote:
         | The dose makes the poison I suppose. Also I wonder who drinks
         | more water than those who drink it flavored by leaves? I wonder
         | if just drinking a lot of water is part of the effect.
        
       | stefantalpalaru wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | darkclouds wrote:
       | Do a few grams worth of beta alanine, say up to 10grams and then
       | tell me if you want to drink black tea!
        
         | jsf01 wrote:
         | What's the connection between beta alanine and tea? Is it just
         | the caffeine in the tea that causes some effect when they're
         | used in combination?
        
         | jerry1979 wrote:
         | What will happen if someone tries this?
        
           | switchbak wrote:
           | I've experienced tingling sensations, like pins and needles,
           | not sure if that's what they're referring to.
        
           | FollowingTheDao wrote:
           | Taking beta-alanine will increase Carnosine synthase activity
           | and probably lead to a depletion of magnesium and/or
           | manganese since they are the co-factors for the enzyme. So
           | this effect will differ based on genetic and nutrition.
           | 
           | https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/A5YM72/entry
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | I don't know about how interacts with tea, but gym bro forums
           | have talked about itching and anal itching in particular.
           | Maybe the tea makes that worse? No idea.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | Meta: I'd not realised that Sci-Hub was a permitted site on HN.
       | It appears that it has been since at least 2019 looking at the
       | site submission history link.
       | 
       | I'm not in the least displeased to learn this.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | If this is the meta-thread ... this presentation is horrible
         | for mobile and defeats HN's forewarning about PDFs.
        
         | CodeSgt wrote:
         | Just curious, why did you think it wouldn't be?
        
       | discordance wrote:
       | " Hepatoprotection or antihepatotoxicity is the ability of a
       | chemical substance to prevent damage to the liver. This is
       | opposite to hepatotoxicity."
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatoprotection
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-06 23:00 UTC)