[HN Gopher] Google's updated privacy policy states it can use pu...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google's updated privacy policy states it can use public data to
       train its AI
        
       Author : firstSpeaker
       Score  : 148 points
       Date   : 2023-07-04 13:08 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.engadget.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.engadget.com)
        
       | Takennickname wrote:
       | If anyone thinks Google respects your privacy and this is an
       | isolated incident then boy do I have news for you LOL
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | That's nothing. I changed my personal privacy policy to allow
       | myself to use google's copyrighted source code. Because that's
       | how it works.
        
       | DueDilligence wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | villgax wrote:
       | There's no limit to such idiocy. I shall ingest everything public
       | on Google properties coz scraping my website constitutes
       | agreement to my conjured up licence
        
       | 908087 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe]
       | 
       | Discussion from yesterday:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36577626
        
       | jonathankoren wrote:
       | I can't help but think all this brouhaha over web scraping is
       | just a rehash over the web scraping panic of the 1990s.
       | 
       | Put it behind a robots.txt or better yet a login.
       | 
       | This battle was fought and won. I'm not going back to the bad old
       | days.
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | I want my website to be accessible to humans, and even indexed
         | by search engines. I just don't want to be used as unpaid
         | labour to train artificial intelligence.
         | 
         | A bit like I will gladly build a bike for someone, but object
         | to the bike being sold around the corner.
        
           | puzzledobserver wrote:
           | I mostly agree with you, but as a counter-point: How would
           | one precisely draw the lines between search engines and LLMs?
           | One provides mostly airtight attributions, and the other is
           | famous for hallucinating citations. But this doesn't sound
           | like a distinction that can be used as the basis for law?
           | 
           | Or are you less concerned with their design and more
           | concerned with their purpose? Providing citations is fine,
           | but creating content is not?
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | One brings traffic to the original work, supporting its
             | creators. The other takes uses the creators' labour without
             | giving anything in return.
        
           | jonathankoren wrote:
           | This was the same argument against search engines and in
           | favor human curated hierarchies like original Yahoo and DMoz.
           | 
           | How do you Wikipedia being used for products period, let
           | alone used as data products, since that's also repurposed
           | unpaid labor?
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | Wikipedia hosts people's hard work and makes it available
             | to the world.
             | 
             | Search engines help connect people to the things they want.
             | At least they mostly do.
             | 
             | AI inserts itself in the middle and strips the creators of
             | credit, recognition or income.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | That just says what Google wants to do. Google's privacy policy
       | has no legal effect on anyone not in a contractual relationship
       | with Google.
        
       | phoe-krk wrote:
       | I guess they made the math and the probabilities and figured that
       | it'll gain them more money to do this and accept the inevitable
       | fines that come from this.
        
         | smrtinsert wrote:
         | Of course they did. It was probably the primary factor. Google
         | is a business looking to survive the technology impact of LLMS,
         | not a tool to improve humans lives.
        
         | firstSpeaker wrote:
         | Likely true. Previously it was any attribution data that was
         | the most valuable since advertising benefit from that. With the
         | LLM and what comes next I imagine every bit of data, structured
         | or unstructured, accurate or not, is going to have some value
         | to someone somewhere.
        
       | kmbfjr wrote:
       | Okay, if that is we are going to play it.
       | 
       | My personal web site that is essentially a doc page on numerous
       | home lab projects and other technical writings, is going dark.
       | 
       | I'm not training your new search algorithms so you can directly
       | profit from my writings. I didn't seek payments prior to this,
       | but now this is just plagiarizing my work.
       | 
       | See ya
        
       | tensor wrote:
       | This is a non-story. Look at the actual changes. Nothing
       | fundamentally new was added, but the language was broadened
       | slightly in a completely unsurprising way.
       | 
       | Language model -> AI model features -> product and features
       | 
       | It just looks like their lawyers tidying up the words but the
       | intention is unchanged.
        
       | worksonmine wrote:
       | Under what jurisdiction am I allowed to create a policy to use
       | whatever I want however I want? Playing the devils advocate I
       | have to assume their lawyers didn't just pull this out of their
       | asses?
       | 
       | Now I'm making a policy that I'm allowed to (ab)use Googles
       | services however I want. They can find the policy themselves. God
       | I hate Google.
        
       | _Algernon_ wrote:
       | It's pretty crazy that changes in privacy policies apply ex post
       | facto on data that was generated before the privacy policy
       | change.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | ... and also to people that do not use google services, and
         | have never read their privacy policy.
        
       | kdavis wrote:
       | Generally this is already "the law of the land" in the US via the
       | HiQ Labs v. LinkedIn precedent[1]. (IANAL)
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiQ_Labs_v._LinkedIn
        
       | elric wrote:
       | We probably need a better definition of which data is "public".
       | Simply being accessible doesn't cut it. I can look out my window
       | and straight into my neighbour's bathroom. Is that public
       | information? Same goes for information on the internet. Sure, my
       | neighbour could put up curtains (and I really wish he would),
       | much like people could restrict access to web pages, but I don't
       | think a lack of protection should automagically imply public
       | access. Much less public access for the profit of some multi-
       | billion dollar corporation.
        
         | tmaly wrote:
         | what about Google books? Do they get a pass with this?
        
           | bhickey wrote:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Googl.
           | ...
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | > I can look out my window and straight into my neighbour's
         | bathroom. Is that public information?
         | 
         | Yes. And there have been numerous court cases confirming this
         | (why we have paparazzi taking topless photos on people on
         | private beaches from public vantage points).
         | 
         | I think this is a feature, not a bug, as without a
         | straightforward rule I don't know how society solves this
         | without causing more harm. If something is public, it's public.
         | Restricting you from looking in your neighbors open window
         | isn't something that can realistically be "fixed." Other than
         | if I don't want my neighbor to look in, I draw the blinds. This
         | works for paupers and billionaires.
         | 
         | If I don't want people to see things, I don't make them public.
         | I can't set a limit of "only people making less than $20k are
         | allowed to view this."
        
           | humanistbot wrote:
           | > Yes. And there have been numerous court cases confirming
           | this
           | 
           | In the US. It is different in the EU. I know HN is US-
           | centric, but tech is global and there are more people in the
           | EU than the US.
        
             | adventured wrote:
             | > but tech is global and there are more people in the EU
             | than the US
             | 
             | Why would population number be the determining factor on
             | anything? The world obviously doesn't operate based on
             | direct democracy. India having 1.4 billion people doesn't
             | give it a greater ability to dictate anything vs the EU, US
             | or China. It comes down to power (always will, always has).
             | For example, the US - for now - has the ability to dictate
             | certain things to China on trade restrictions, given the US
             | technology advantage. China is a legitimate superpower
             | economically, has four times the population, and yet the US
             | can still do that.
             | 
             | If the premise is consumer numbers: the US still has the EU
             | beat even with fewer consumers, with a far larger, far more
             | valuable economy.
             | 
             | Besides all of that, naturally each country (or as a
             | union), to the extent it can, will attempt to set its own
             | rules for tech. The US will do so, the EU will do so, China
             | will do so, etc.
        
               | flangola7 wrote:
               | I can't think of a better metric than individual count.
        
             | halJordan wrote:
             | What are the substantial differences? (I dont think there
             | are)
        
           | dawnerd wrote:
           | What if someone leaks info is that public now? What if
           | someone shares my private info without permission? Should
           | Google be allowed to train on it? How would their systems
           | know? What about pirated other illegal content? The lines are
           | not quite as clear to computers.
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | IANAL, but leaking is a crime, accessing once public is
             | not. There was a lot of this back during the height of
             | Wikileaks where there were questions about reading
             | classified material being a crime. It is, but once it's
             | leaked, it is no longer classified, so public.
             | 
             | So the crime would be on the leaker, not on Google for
             | training on it.
        
               | dawnerd wrote:
               | But the question is should google train against it not if
               | it's legal. Just because it's public doesn't mean you
               | have the right to use it, I think that's the real
               | question we'll need to figure out.
        
               | snerbles wrote:
               | IANAL either, but I have held a security clearance and
               | this is very dangerous advice.
               | 
               | Unless explicitly declassified the leaked information
               | remains classified, and those who hold security
               | clearances are legally required to avoid all classified
               | information outside of their need-to-know [0].
               | 
               | Now if you have _never_ held a U.S. security clearance,
               | you 're less likely to be prosecuted but the history and
               | precedent is murky [1]. The average Joe Sixpack checking
               | out Wikileaks is _probably_ safe, but if I were a
               | journalist publishing the next round of Pentagon Papers I
               | would much rather have a small army of lawyers and a
               | friend or two in Congress.
               | 
               | EDIT - Google has federal contracts, so they are probably
               | bound by similar agreements to at least make an effort to
               | avoid any such leaks in their training data for public-
               | facing models.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-
               | Policy/2010/1207/US-to...
               | 
               | [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
               | way/2017/03/22/521009791...
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | > > I can look out my window and straight into my neighbour's
           | bathroom. Is that public information?
           | 
           | > Yes
           | 
           | Not in my country at least, but if you will I van suggest
           | another exemple: does broadcasting a movie or a song through
           | to the public make it public good? No. We have laws (highly
           | variable between jurisdictions) that set the rules for these
           | "published data", and they are actually dependent on manu
           | factors including whether or not you're making money out of
           | it (you can lend a DVD to your friend for free, but you
           | cannot start a DVD-renting business without a licence from
           | the copyright owners).
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | > broadcasting a movie or a song through to the public make
             | it public good
             | 
             | Movies and songs are copyrighted and can't be rebroadcast
             | or copied without license. But viewing is perfectly legal
             | and does not require a license.
             | 
             | And you can certainly start a DVD-renting business without
             | a license from copyright holders (assuming you bought the
             | DVD). You can't start a dvd streaming business without a
             | license.
        
               | littlestymaar wrote:
               | > Movies and songs are copyrighted and can't be
               | rebroadcast or copied without license. But viewing is
               | perfectly legal and does not require a license.
               | 
               | That's exactly the point: "publishing" something only
               | gives you some _limited_ rights (an in certain
               | jurisdictions like mine, most of these rights are limited
               | to individuals only, and organizations are excluded).
               | 
               | > And you can certainly start a DVD-renting business
               | without a license from copyright holders (assuming you
               | bought the DVD)
               | 
               | Not in my country, again.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | What country are you in? It sounds unusual that you can't
               | sell property that you've bought (a DVD).
               | 
               | Publishing are rights for the publisher, not the viewer.
               | As a viewer, I can view the material and don't have
               | restrictions on whether I can remember it or not (ie, run
               | it through an algorithm to train a model as part of the
               | viewing).
        
           | abwizz wrote:
           | > paparazzi taking topless photos on people on private
           | beaches from public vantage points
           | 
           | this is illegal almost everywhere.
           | 
           | e.g. in germany it is even illegal to take a picture of a
           | person (one specific) in a public space without their consent
           | (unless they are a person of public interest).
        
             | tyfon wrote:
             | It's the same in Norway.
             | 
             | Taking a photo of a public square with a lot of people in
             | it is still legal without asking everyone for consent. But
             | the topless photo example would not be legal at all without
             | consent or even just a photo where one specific person or
             | small group is the focus.
             | 
             | Edit: taking the photo itself might be ok in the latter
             | case, but publishing it (like posting to facebook or a blog
             | or forum) is not.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | What if you're on the beach and taking a photo of your
               | kid and there's a topless woman in the background. Very
               | common in Scandinavia. And if there are German tourists
               | there, they might be completely naked.
        
               | wukerplank wrote:
               | Taking a picture vs publishing/selling a picture are
               | separate issues.
        
             | darkclouds wrote:
             | I dont think so as Kate Middleton future Queen of England
             | found out.
             | 
             | ******Warning****** NSFW pictures of the future Queen of
             | England at this URL -->
             | https://theoutsidersadi.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/click-
             | here-...
             | 
             | The (UK) press get around the law, by reporting a story and
             | then relying on the reader using search engines to get the
             | information from other jurisdictions like I have just done
             | here, located in UK, EU google servers, and where ever the
             | wordpress server is located.
             | 
             | It kind of makes me think, what is the point of law?
             | 
             | You need a lot of money to fight these entities and fight
             | them in multiple jurisdictions where relevant laws exist.
             | 
             | What also makes a mockery of the legal system at least the
             | Royal lawyers is, whilst Kate Middleton has some injunction
             | to block press publication in the UK, they cant stop the
             | search engines from publishing the data to users in the UK,
             | as I have just demonstrated with the link above and the
             | search term "kate topless holiday photo" and then clicking
             | the images option!
             | 
             | Now what if I meant "kate beckinsale topless photo" instead
             | of "kate topless photo"? I just got someone elses topless
             | photos without even expecting them, ie the future Queen of
             | England.
             | 
             | Are the Royal lawyers from the stone age, do they not
             | understand search engines or do they buy the targeted
             | filter bubble narrative highlighted by Eli Parsier in his
             | Ted talk?
             | 
             | I like German privacy, they even stood up to Google and the
             | Streetview project, however Google have edited me from
             | their Streetview images where I'm giving their car the bird
             | as it drove past me so there is some human oversight, but
             | they still have that data and refuse to hand it over via
             | GDPR DSAR requests.
             | 
             | To many big entities including the Police, fulfil GDPR DSAR
             | requests by relying on being able to identify the
             | individual using todays existing systems.
             | 
             | If someone cant be identified, like my giving the Google
             | Streetview car the bird in their streetview data, Google
             | will say no data exists.
             | 
             | Yet GDPR law doesnt address developing and future
             | technology which will be able to identify me giving the
             | Google Streetview car the bird if they run facial
             | recognition over their streetview data.
             | 
             | So the GDPR DSAR is useless law as is, although I havent
             | read it, but I suspect Google's privacy policy is as well.
        
             | VirusNewbie wrote:
             | so if I take a picture of my wife on vacation in germany
             | with someone in the background I'm breaking the law?
        
               | mxscho wrote:
               | Not necessarily, as there are other exceptions to this
               | rule. A person can also be "Beiwerk" [1] (=
               | accessory/props) which in the context of personality
               | rights means that you are not the main focus point of the
               | picture.
               | 
               | [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beiwerk
        
               | nicbou wrote:
               | There are clear exceptions for people who happen to be in
               | the picture.
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | As long as the photo is taken from a public location, it is
             | legal almost everywhere.
             | 
             | US [0] " In the United States, photographs that are taken
             | for editorial use in a public place generally enjoy
             | Constitutional protection under the right of free speech."
             | 
             | Denmark [1] " you can almost without restrictions shoot
             | anything as long as what you're seeing is visible from
             | public property. You are allowed to shoot people, including
             | police officers or other government officials."
             | 
             | In Germany [2], you can photograph people from public
             | locations but not if they are nude or vulnerable or in
             | their home. " You can't take photos of people if it shows
             | their helplessness.1 For example, you can't take photos of
             | accident victims, drunk people or nude people without their
             | permission."
             | 
             | [0] https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/what-are-the-laws-
             | regardin...
             | 
             | [1] https://law.photography/law/street-photography-laws-in-
             | denma...
        
               | onli wrote:
               | > _In Germany [2], you can photograph people from public
               | locations but not if they are nude or vulnerable or in
               | their home. " You can't take photos of people if it shows
               | their helplessness.1 For example, you can't take photos
               | of accident victims, drunk people or nude people without
               | their permission."_
               | 
               | Not how I learned it. You can take pictures of public
               | spaces as long as a specific person is not the focus of
               | the picture. The other aspects, like the invasion of
               | privacy when a person is nude, only come on top of that.
               | 
               | The law around questions like this is not definitive, so
               | a lot depends on recent court decisions.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | The actual law is cited, so perhaps law changed since you
               | learned it. Or you are just incorrect. According to
               | German law and court decisions, it seems quite
               | definitive. Although I know very little about German law,
               | perhaps there's some local law that supersedes regional,
               | national, and EU law.
               | 
               | What I try to do is track to the actual source rather
               | than relying on my own memory of things.
        
               | onli wrote:
               | I see no link for the [2] in your comment. I sincerely
               | doubt I'm wrong about this, you can read about it for
               | example here: https://hoesmann.eu/fotos-von-gebauden-
               | personen-und-marken-i.... It also explains under which
               | exceptions pictures of a single person can be valid
               | anyway, without explicit permission.
               | 
               | > _According to German law and court decisions, it seems
               | quite definitive._
               | 
               | That's impossible. Basically nothing is definitive in the
               | german Medienrecht ;) Ok, not really true, but it's true
               | that things can change and that it is a less defined area
               | and you'd have to be really certain to know the relevant
               | case law to be almost certain here.
        
               | mcbutterbunz wrote:
               | The link you posted [0] states there are limitations on
               | the use. Places where you would have a reasonable
               | expectation of privacy are not allowed to be
               | photographed. Like at an ATM or in a public restroom.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | Indeed. There are limitations. Restrooms aren't public,
               | they are places where privacy is expected. The link I
               | posted describes how in the US it's perfectly legal to
               | take a picture through someone's open window (as long as
               | you don't trespass or do anything illegal to take it).
               | 
               | My point isn't that there are no limitations on
               | photography or use. My point is that if you make
               | something public, people can view it and use it. And
               | that's legal. People seem confused about this that
               | somehow consent is required for use. Not for things
               | publicly released. (In the US and many countries at
               | least)
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | Yep. Most of the books are also public, since anyone can borrow
         | them for free in a library, but they're still protected by
         | copyright. Same for movies and tv shows broadcasted over the
         | air.
        
           | zirgs wrote:
           | They are protected by copyright, but anyone is free to learn
           | from them.
        
             | madhadron wrote:
             | The fact that we call the curve
             | fitting/optimization/compression that we do to fit machine
             | learning models to input data "learning" is really
             | unfortunate and leads to this kind of conflation.
             | 
             | If we trace the path of how we ended up here, it's similar
             | to how people incorrectly refer to loci of DNA as genes. We
             | have behavior analysis where we speak of learning as the
             | conditioning via the antecedant-behavior-consequence loop.
             | There was the Hebbian theory of how the ABC loop manifested
             | physically in neurons. Early neural net papers took
             | inspiration from that that mechanism and called it
             | learning.
             | 
             | Meanwhile, actual learning is far, far richer than the
             | Hebbian theory of synaptic strengthening, and has a lot
             | more going on than just operant conditioning.
             | 
             | So, please, it's time for everyone to stop pretending that
             | the fact that ML inherited the word "learn" as a term of
             | art for curve fitting has any philosophical weight.
        
             | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
             | "Free to learn from them" isn't specific enough. The
             | question is "in what ways are people free to profit off of
             | them?"
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | Even AI? :)
        
               | zmjjmz wrote:
               | Do believe that a human learning from a book is
               | fundamentally different than training a model off of it,
               | and thus should be regulated differently?
        
               | mjr00 wrote:
               | There have always been legal differences between a human
               | doing something and technology doing the "same" thing.
               | 
               | It's legal for me to go to a nude beach and stare at a
               | topless woman. It's _probably_ legal for me to draw a
               | picture of that topless woman and distribute it. It 's
               | definitely not legal for me to take pictures of that
               | topless woman with my phone and post them on the
               | internet.
               | 
               | It's legal for me to overhear a conversation you and your
               | friend are having on a bus. It's legal for me to
               | transcribe what I heard and post it online. In most
               | jurisdictions, it's _not_ legal for me to record that
               | conversation.
               | 
               | Ingesting data for use in machine learning models is
               | still too new to have any specific legislation around it.
               | But the argument that the technology is just doing a
               | thing that humans do has zero relevance.
        
               | og_kalu wrote:
               | >It's definitely not legal for me to take pictures of
               | that topless woman with my phone and post them on the
               | internet.
               | 
               | This is legal. You can take pictures of anyone, nude or
               | not in a public setting and post them anywhere.
               | 
               | >It's legal for me to transcribe what I heard and post it
               | online.
               | 
               | This is murky. It's legal to take notes of what you've
               | heard but that comes with all the pitfalls of hearsay.
               | Legally, it's not treated as the human equivalent of
               | recording because humans have no such equivalent.
        
               | ajsnigrutin wrote:
               | The first one is iffy.... probably depends on a country
               | too. If you take a panoramic shot of the beach, and
               | someone is randomly topless.. sure. If you take a
               | telephoto lens and single them out, it's questionable,
               | and in many countries, illegal. Same as with walking vs
               | following someone, even in public... the intent is
               | different, so is the legality.
        
               | staticman2 wrote:
               | If corporations are allowed to own AI there's a strong
               | argument that it shouldn't be treated anything like a
               | human.
               | 
               | Humans aren't property so of course they should be
               | regulated differently from AI.
        
               | Y-bar wrote:
               | Putting aside the fact that what we call AI today is not
               | learning in the same way as humans. They operate on a
               | VASTLY different scale compared to humans. On a good week
               | I can read a book. A single book. A massively
               | parallelised data centre can do that billions or
               | trillions of times faster. Scale of effect (lacking a
               | better phrase) must be considered.
        
             | elric wrote:
             | Sure, but there have been many copyright cases about
             | plagiarism (in writing and in music). It's rarely cut and
             | dry. There's a fine line between inspiration and
             | plagiarism, which can only seemingly be settled in court.
             | That approach is not feasible when dealing with the amount
             | of data (and copyright holders) that Google gobbles up.
        
               | zirgs wrote:
               | Using AI is probably the most inefficient way to obtain
               | copyrighted content. It's much faster to simply find the
               | original image or text and copy that instead.
        
         | tensor wrote:
         | Maybe something like an extension of robots.txt. E.g. if your
         | don't allow crawling then the data is not public. I think
         | that's fair, after all if you want complete strangers to be
         | able to search for it arguably you are asking for it to be
         | public.
        
         | DeusExMachina wrote:
         | I don't think the definition of public is even enough here.
         | Open-source code is public but covered by specific licenses.
         | That's still legally undefined, but there are already ongoing
         | lawsuits.
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | What is so crazy is this seem like a disincentive to publish
         | and share ideas. If anything you say can be used in an AI
         | against you... or the alternatively that is not your idea the
         | AI came up with it... This has nothing to do with AI and
         | everything to do with the crackpots in charge.
        
           | sigmoid10 wrote:
           | Unfortunately it's not so easy. If I as a person (which is
           | essentially just a biological neural network) can simply go
           | to websites, read the content and use the information I
           | gathered to create slightly modified new content without
           | repercussions, who's to say that an artificial neural network
           | should not be allowed to do that? Just because I'm not as
           | fast? What if I hire 1000 workers in a low wage country to do
           | it for me? As AI capabilities grow, this separation will grow
           | even narrower in the future. There's no realistic way to
           | differentiate web access for human purposes vs. AI purposes
           | in the long run.
        
             | morjom wrote:
             | >Just because I'm not(...)
             | 
             | It's because a human you can be accountable and can feel
             | consequences, and yes, also because you aren't as fast.
             | 
             | I feel like many people just equivalent "human brain and
             | consciousness" with "neural network" way too quickly. You
             | can't remove the human factor however much you try to
             | equivelate(?) it with a program.
             | 
             | (? = non english speaker)
        
               | sigmoid10 wrote:
               | But you _aren 't_ held accountable. At least not as much
               | as LLMs nowadays. And speed is also irrelevant as stated
               | above.
        
             | detourdog wrote:
             | As an individual I would like to use bots to do my
             | websurfing. Where I see the the problem is large
             | corporations using webscrapped ideas to patent/copyright
             | ideas. IF the data produced by AI is as open as the
             | webscrapped data that seems fine.
        
               | sigmoid10 wrote:
               | If you produce code from reading stackoverflow or github
               | for some company, it will also own it - not you. AI will
               | only be faster at producing stuff for these companies.
        
               | detourdog wrote:
               | I'm not interested in code as much as other forms of
               | human expression. Imagine having to convince the courts
               | that you said something first no matter what the expert
               | AI states.
               | 
               | I still don't see it as an AI failure as a human failure
               | in the use of sophisticated tools.
        
             | salawat wrote:
             | Yes there is.
             | 
             | You can spin up more compute with a credit card. You can't
             | make 1000 people in the same manner, nor can you _own_
             | them.
             | 
             | Lets be real here though. The only reason anyone is
             | drooling over AI is because it potentially allows one to
             | elide paying someone else, ehich means more money for them.
        
               | evandale wrote:
               | You can use your credit card to find and convince 1000
               | people to do your bidding, why is owning them a
               | requirement? You don't "own" the compute you spin up
               | either, you're temporarily borrowing it.
        
               | detourdog wrote:
               | As the AI business model as a two prong approach. Create
               | an idea generating system so complex one can legal elude
               | responsibility, followed by rent seeking opportunities
               | from the generated ideas.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | Yes, God forbid we build powerful new tools that extend
               | human knowledge, insight, and productivity in directions
               | previously undreamed-of. Mah coppy rite is more
               | important! Thereoughttabealaw!
               | 
               | As usual in these scenarios, the only real injustice is
               | that the people who tried to stand in the way will enjoy
               | the benefits of progress in AI alongside those who worked
               | to make it happen. So it goes, I guess.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | 0xParlay wrote:
         | Seems to be well defined and accepted in regards to Third Party
         | Doctrine. Would be silly if AI were the motivation to
         | reconsider what is "public" as opposed to the blatantly obvious
         | run-around of the American bill of rights currently in use. But
         | hey I'll take it.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > "But honestly Monica, the web is considered "public domain"
         | and you should be happy we just didn't "lift" your whole
         | article and put someone else's name on it! It happens a lot,
         | clearly more than you are aware of, especially on college
         | campuses, and the workplace. If you took offence and are
         | unhappy, I am sorry, but you as a professional should know that
         | the article we used written by you was in very bad need of
         | editing, and is much better now than was originally. Now it
         | will work well for your portfolio. For that reason, I have a
         | bit of a difficult time with your requests for monetary gain,
         | albeit for such a fine (and very wealthy!) institution. We put
         | some time into rewrites, you should compensate me! I never
         | charge young writers for advice or rewriting poorly written
         | pieces, and have many who write for me... ALWAYS for free!"
         | 
         | 13 years ago, we treated cookssource.com like they were rubes,
         | but they were just too early and too small.
         | 
         |  _" The web is considered 'public domain'"_
         | 
         | https://illadore.livejournal.com/30674.html
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1868736
         | 
         | -----
         | 
         |  _A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"_
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20101112141752/http://www.cookss...
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1911977
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | Is this something they can confidently define in a privacy
       | policy? This feels like its proper scope would be legislation.
       | Indeed, legislation which is very much unsettled and ongoing. My
       | assumption is they'll do as much as the law allows, but if the
       | law doesn't allow it, their privacy policy isn't going to make a
       | difference.
        
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