[HN Gopher] How to pass a first-round interview
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How to pass a first-round interview
        
       Author : jger15
       Score  : 150 points
       Date   : 2023-07-04 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.lennysnewsletter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.lennysnewsletter.com)
        
       | Scubabear68 wrote:
       | I like the writing on this article a lot more than I thought I
       | would, some of the advice is sound - but the big caveat is most
       | of this has nothing to do with a first round interview. What the
       | author describes here are pieces that will come up in a typical
       | interview process somewhere, but probably not a first round.
       | 
       | First round to me is typically a "bozo filter" - screen out
       | individuals who are clearly unqualified or who are an obvious bad
       | fit.
       | 
       | Any decent dev should get past round 1 without significant prep.
        
         | teucris wrote:
         | The article calls this out, stating that they define the first
         | round interview as the one after a phone screen/video screen.
        
           | Scubabear68 wrote:
           | So it is like two screens before the "real" interview? Weird.
           | Sounds like a very lengthy process!
        
             | teucris wrote:
             | Yep. Hiring is expensive.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | I think some companies send junior techies to do first round
         | filtering (with easy coding questions), while others keep the
         | HR folks busy doing first round filtering (with, well,
         | behavioural etc. questions as outlined in the article).
        
       | andrewingram wrote:
       | I just want to figure out how to come up with a good answer for
       | "Tell me about a time when you had a conflict with a colleague."
       | (used as an example in the post, but not in any detail). It seems
       | to be the question that anecdotally is the biggest reason I'm not
       | getting offers right now, so I'd welcome pointers.
       | 
       | Where I'm at:
       | 
       | * I don't really know what other people mean by "conflict", so I
       | probably go for examples that are more charged than is necessary.
       | 
       | * When _I_ hear  "conflict", my head goes towards relationships
       | with people who were widely problematic within the business (i.e
       | I wasn't the only one who had difficulty with them), and more
       | often than not, they eventually got fired or manage out -- so the
       | conflict often resolved itself based on external factors.
       | 
       | * Minor disagreements, ie differing opinions on how to approach a
       | problem, aren't conflicts in my mind. Because they had no long-
       | term emotional impact on me, I don't tend to remember these well
       | enough to spin a story or discuss particular conflict-navigation
       | techniques or outcomes.
       | 
       | * I have one example where a CEO got an employee to do something
       | unethical (and possibly illegal, not sure), and I challenged them
       | on it. But this was kind of a no-win situation for me, I said my
       | piece, he heard me, the particular instance was stopped, but I'm
       | told he's still doing similar things today (I'm no longer at the
       | company).
        
         | 20after4 wrote:
         | I'm with you on this.
         | 
         | I've even been told that my lack of a good answer to this
         | question was the only negative mark on one of the interviews
         | for a job that I eventually was hired for.
         | 
         | My honest answer is that I don't generally have conflicts at
         | work. I get along with people and generally handle
         | disagreements easily. I haven't worked in an environment that
         | was rife with conflicts, maybe I'm just lucky or maybe my
         | definition of conflict is different than others.
        
           | blindriver wrote:
           | "I'm really good at predicting potential areas of conflict
           | with my coworkers so I make sure to address them head-on
           | before they turn into something much bigger. This is why I've
           | managed to avoid any major sources of conflict so far (knock
           | on wood). An example of this was..."
        
         | teucris wrote:
         | If the question feels unclear to you, that's an excellent
         | opportunity to ask clarifying questions, e.g. "Sure, but what
         | do you mean by 'conflict'? Do you mean a disagreement on how to
         | solve a problem, or an interpersonal conflict?"
         | 
         | When I ask a question like this I mean a disagreement, and I'd
         | imagine that's what most interviewers mean too. So I recommend
         | you continue to search for a situation you can recall in
         | detail.
         | 
         | If the answer is that they're looking for interpersonal
         | conflict, you should use a situation where you took effort to
         | work past it with the person for the good of the
         | mission/company. Your last story could work if framed that way
         | but it lacks a moment where you found a way to move forward
         | with this person.
        
           | kaimac wrote:
           | > So I recommend you continue to search for a situation you
           | can recall in detail.
           | 
           | Or just make one up. Ask silly questions, get silly answers.
        
         | arandr0x wrote:
         | I'm a manager whose definition of conflict mostly matches
         | yours, so here's how I handle it (as an interviewee) and how to
         | translate the "default behavioral interview question" to
         | something you can answer:
         | 
         | - the scope of the question is usually "how do you reconcile
         | your worldview, desires, and best interest with someone
         | else's". When answering, I tend to first clarify to the
         | interview that "conflict" is a word that has intense
         | connotations for me, and then ask "Are you asking about a time
         | I had to negotiate with a person that was coming from a
         | different point of view or background, or about how I handled
         | an emotionally charged situation?" (As a manager, it is more
         | common that I do get asked about emotionally charged
         | situations, which also take skills to defuse, just different
         | ones.)
         | 
         | - At least for me, I often think of non-emotionally-charged
         | disagreements as negotiations; there are absolutely negotiation
         | skills to be used to resolve disagreements efficiently and
         | effectively, and if you can't think of any, it may be something
         | for you to practice. Do you often get what you want? When you
         | do, is it mutually beneficial? How does that course of action
         | happen?
         | 
         | - Sometimes you can sidestep the question and showcase better
         | conflict resolution skills by thinking of a time you arbitraged
         | a conflict between two other parties. Describe how you dealt
         | with each party. Did you feel you were unbiased? If you were
         | initially more on the side of one party, how did you set that
         | aside to listen to the other person?
         | 
         | - Don't mention abuses of power (by you or the other party) in
         | a conflict resolution question. Also don't mention conflicts
         | that are primarily personal - the origin of the disagreement
         | should be about work, not tone, physical threats, intimate
         | history, etc.
         | 
         | - If you do have a story about building a working relationship
         | with a known problematic person, so that your work with that
         | person yielded good results and you didn't fall into the trap
         | of a bad personal relationship with them, you can mention what
         | you did to get there. E.g. "X was widely known for his temper
         | and would often yell during code reviews. Although this caused
         | problems with all his teams, and he doesn't work there anymore
         | today, I always got civil, useful code reviews from X by
         | sending him my points in writing in advance, and expressing
         | that I valued his feedback which was why I wanted a trace of
         | it."
        
         | srhtftw wrote:
         | If someone asks me this I tell them about the time when I was
         | working late and another engineer who happened to work a few
         | desks away from mine broke our unit tests and tried to pressure
         | me into committing a quick patch to fix them without testing it
         | first so they wouldn't be late to a movie.
         | 
         | I explained I was new to the group, had no special
         | understanding of the code they changed or the tests that failed
         | and wasn't about to deviate from SDLC principles when there
         | wasn't a compelling need. In my view committing an untested
         | change was what caused the trouble in the first place and I had
         | no confidence that the fix they wanted me to commit would make
         | things better. I suggested that they simply revert their change
         | and come back to it later when they had time.
         | 
         | This only made the other person more irritated. They raised
         | their voice and continued to demand I do what they suggested
         | and I continued to politely explain that while I was willing to
         | help them work through the problem, review their code, examine
         | the data or follow any appropriately documented procedure, I
         | wasn't willing to violate proper engineering principles this
         | way. Their shouting started attracting some unwanted attention
         | and they decided to just pack up and leave. Later that evening
         | another engineer reverted their change and everything was fine
         | again.
         | 
         | My manager asked me how I felt about the incident the next day.
         | I said that although their behavior was irritating, I didn't
         | hold it against them. Even the best of people make mistakes
         | when desperate or rushed. Their mind just wasn't in the right
         | place at that time. They really just needed to get away for a
         | bit. What matters is that we move on, try our best to treat
         | each other with respect and remember that we're all part of the
         | same team.
        
         | jghn wrote:
         | Assuming they're not just reading it from a checklist & tuning
         | out when you start talking - they're looking for a story where
         | you had a problematic relationship with a coworker or
         | coworkers, but managed to make it work. Ideally over a longer
         | period of time, and not "Bob stole my lunch out of the fridge
         | one day". For reasons similar to what you said I've found a lot
         | of people don't have very good stories along these lines, and
         | because of that this question is less useful than people like
         | to think. And on top of that, most candidates are terrified of
         | saying anything that makes them look like the ahole in those
         | situations. So if their answer sounds pretty milquetoast who is
         | to say if they're being careful or just don't have good
         | stories.
         | 
         | I have a story I use now. It involved a coworker with whom I
         | had an oil vs water relationship for a couple of years. In
         | retrospect I could have gone about it all a lot better than I
         | did in the moment, although that was true for both of us. I
         | don't have the perfect "And then I solved everything" punchline
         | to my story, they were eventually let go. But, my journey
         | during it all was critical to my own development. And that
         | started me down a leadership path, changing the course of my
         | career. So I talk about my lessons learned, things I wish I'd
         | have done differently in retrospect, etc. I'm not painting a
         | perfect picture of myself, but I do display introspection,
         | personal development, willingness to take different approaches
         | to resolve an issue, etc.
        
           | andrewingram wrote:
           | The oil vs water thing resonates. Given that tenures are
           | relatively short these days (1-2 years), it's pretty easy to
           | just wait it out -- especially if the other person has issues
           | with other people too.
           | 
           | I do feel like too many of my examples (for this whole class
           | of questions) are times I could've handled better (though I
           | didn't handle them catastrophically by any means), that
           | ultimately shaped how I think about such things going
           | forwards (after a fair amount of introspection)). But I often
           | seem to lack the examples of a subsequent situation where I
           | put that into practice (pandemic meant I basically took a
           | holding-pattern role for a couple of years).
           | 
           | One would think that introspection, recognition of ones own
           | mistakes and being receptive to feedback would be a massive
           | pro; but lately that hasn't been my experience when
           | interviewing.
        
         | why-el wrote:
         | I've been asked this numerous times, and similar questions.
         | Most of these questions boil down to "are you, the interviewee
         | we are about to give a job to, a crazy person". Most likely you
         | are not, so find some plausible scenarios, like a missed
         | deadline, scope creep, or any of the normal shit that happens
         | to us, humanize the other in the story, state the resolution
         | (or what you changed in process), the end.
        
         | blindriver wrote:
         | Conflict means disagreement. They want to be able to see that
         | you can disagree with someone or handle conflict with someone
         | but not make it personal and move on professionally.
         | 
         | So you disagreed over something technical, like architecture.
         | You show they you can handle conflict by not taking it
         | personally, but involving other people on the team, and
         | regardless of whether or not the outcome is in your favor, you
         | thrash it out once and then stick to it.
        
       | bradlys wrote:
       | First "round" interviews are so often done by recruiters that
       | it's basically a joke to pass them. I always call them screeners
       | and "are you a serial killer" calls. Unless you say something
       | that goes against the typical grain of what these calls should
       | have (e.g. speaking poorly about a company, saying you were
       | fired, clear anti-social behavior even if minor, you have niche
       | demands that _no one_ will fill, etc...) then you'll pass them
       | easily.
       | 
       | The first call is always about seeing if you even know that
       | there's a good amount of acting going on from both sides. You
       | play your part and you'll get to the technical interviews. People
       | have a lower threshold for acting as you progress in the
       | interviews and you can say more things that clearly aren't good
       | to say. (I.e. anything that demonstrates you don't tolerate
       | bullshit)
       | 
       | No one is complaining about this round of interviewing because
       | it's not a real issue or obstacle for anyone.
        
         | nicoburns wrote:
         | That was my experience every other time I've applied to a job
         | in the last 10 years, but not during my recent job search. I
         | got a number of rejections from 5 minute first round interviews
         | for no obvious reason. Whereas once I got to a "proper"
         | interview it was plain sailing. I think companies are getting a
         | lot more applications than they were and are having to put a
         | stronger filter in the first rounds than was the previous norm.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | We had reception (basically someone random) do the first phone
         | screen interviews at my last company.
        
         | EForEndeavour wrote:
         | This reminds me: what's the interview approach when someone
         | _was_ fired from their previous job? Just lie because
         | disclosing that information will very likely disqualify you?
        
           | bradlys wrote:
           | Yep. Lie. It's what I do every time.
           | 
           | I've continued to get new jobs and ones that were better than
           | previous.
        
           | vba616 wrote:
           | Don't lie. Don't act/feel guilty. Embrace (in your head, in
           | preparation) the reasons you had to leave as though they were
           | your own. Only talk about the aspects of leaving your job
           | that you have in common with a voluntary resignation on your
           | own initiative.
           | 
           | If you were hiring someone, think about what you would want,
           | and what you want to know. _Anything_ negative in someone 's
           | past, you do not really _care_ about it, you just care they
           | are past it and it won 't have negative future consequences.
           | 
           | Avoiding the negative aspects of your past is not a matter of
           | deception, but of proving that you are emotionally ready to
           | move on.
           | 
           | On a written job application, which in my experience comes at
           | the end after they think they want you, be honest, but read
           | it like a lawyer and make sure you don't disclose anything
           | that you don't have to.
        
           | blakblakarak wrote:
           | I've been fired from a job - it's glaring obvious from my CV
           | - I'm just honest, tell then how I learnt from my error and
           | how I believe it makes me a better dev having reeeealy messed
           | up that one time. If a company doesn't want to hire me after
           | for that reason it's not a company I'd want to work for
           | anyway.
        
             | vba616 wrote:
             | People could be on different wavelengths.
             | 
             | When I read "fired", I don't immediately think of "forgot a
             | WHERE clause when deleting from a production database
             | table". That happens, but I don't think I've actually seen
             | anyone fired for it.
             | 
             | I think of it more like "you just gradually found you
             | couldn't do the job, didn't meet performance standards,
             | etc". In that case, the usually bland stuff about how the
             | position wasn't a good fit but this one is seems to me like
             | the way to go.
             | 
             | And "CV" suggests to me a non-American or an American
             | academic - whereas some people in this thread may be in the
             | SF bay area (although I'm not).
        
               | blakblakarak wrote:
               | I'm English and it was a balls up that cost the company
               | six or maybe seven figures. I actually left on good terms
               | (at least with the team) but they needed a sacrificial
               | lamb for the board.
        
         | lisasays wrote:
         | So if, heaven forbid, someone ever does get fired - which of
         | the two remaining options do you propose is best: (1) commit
         | suicide, or (2) lie in response to the "have you ever been
         | fired" question?
         | 
         | Since answering honestly is aparently a deal-breaker in your
         | book.
        
           | bradlys wrote:
           | Yeah, lie. No shit. You think companies aren't lying?
           | 
           | Lying is part of the theater that is our current employer-
           | employee relationship. Everyone knows this
        
             | lisasays wrote:
             | Everyone "knows" this but it generally applies to more
             | nuanced categories. For example, about liking your boss's
             | jokes, believing in "Agile", etc.
             | 
             | But in regard to, you know, important stuff, such as
             | matters of one's employment record -- you know they have
             | ways of checking up on what you say, and that any company
             | worth working for does exactly that -- right?
        
               | 20after4 wrote:
               | So definitely don't give the boss that fired you as a
               | reference that they might call to check up?
        
               | lisasays wrote:
               | Many employers make a point of checking the past 2-3
               | places on your resume, regardless of whether they were
               | listed as references or not.
               | 
               | Also, not listing your most recent clients/managers as
               | references (because why wouldn't they be glowingly
               | positive?) can be seen as a red flag.
        
               | bradlys wrote:
               | Again, I've never had this issue and never has anyone I
               | know. They don't call companies to ask if you were fired.
               | They ask and tell you if you worked there and for what
               | dates.
               | 
               | Reason for leaving is never told.
        
               | lisasays wrote:
               | OK, so you're dodging the question, then.
               | 
               | "What to do if they ask question X?"
               | 
               | "Just lie, like everyone else does."
               | 
               | "Except you know that won't work if in fact they do ask
               | you question X, right?"
               | 
               | "Doesn't matter, because they they won't ask you anyway."
               | 
               | Weird.
               | 
               | In any case it absolutely is standard practice for a
               | significant portion of companies to go this route
               | (especially in more traditional sectors). Even if it
               | hasn't happened to you personally, or to people in your
               | bubble world.
        
               | bradlys wrote:
               | This is HN - the bubble of Silicon Valley and venture
               | capital. I can tell you with great certainty it is
               | incredibly uncommon to encounter people in HR who will
               | tell you the reason why X person left the company. In a
               | region that is happy to do lawsuits - they don't bother.
               | After all - it's no longer their issue. They'll just
               | verify dates of employment and that's it.
        
           | vba616 wrote:
           | I made a comment here on what I think is the right approach:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36588394
        
         | arandr0x wrote:
         | There are also "legitimate" reasons to fail first round
         | interviews, such as the recruiter picking your resume for a
         | role that you are not actually qualified for (which the hiring
         | manager notices after the interview), your salary expectations
         | being too high for that specific company size/geography/role
         | (usually a communications mismatch where they advertise a more
         | senior role than they actually have), or it coming out that you
         | are not legally allowed to work for them (they cannot sponsor
         | visas; they don't hire in your country; they require
         | citizenship; etc).
         | 
         | All these cases are technically the company's fault, not the
         | candidate's, but they do often come out right after the
         | screening call.
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | The article claims that most first round interviews are
       | behavioral questions / culture fit.
       | 
       | That doesn't match any interview processes I've been involved
       | with. If you are running an interview process for ICs (which this
       | article clearly targets), you should put the highest signal
       | questions first.
       | 
       | That usually means a somewhat easy coding question. If people
       | fail that, then you can immediately eliminate them from the
       | pipeline. If they fail a hard coding question, you usually need
       | more signal, which means more wasted time.
       | 
       | If your culture fit / behavioral question is good at weeding out
       | candidates, then there's probably something seriously wrong with
       | your hiring practices. Sociology studies show that those
       | questions are more correlated to drinking the same brand of
       | alcohol or playing the same sports than they are to job
       | performance.
       | 
       | Other studies show that diversity significantly increases team
       | performance, so filtering people on whether you'd like to hang
       | out with them during the weekend is fraught with technical peril.
        
         | zulban wrote:
         | I'm really interested to see what studies you're talking about
         | specifically, but I didn't put much value in your comment
         | without it.
         | 
         | I've had a ton of trouble finding good research on this.
         | 
         | Studies have shown.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | > you should put the highest signal questions first. That
         | usually means a somewhat easy coding question.
         | 
         | While I agree with you, what do you make of the claim in the
         | article (that I've seen elsewhere) that behavioural questions
         | are x% more predictive of job performance than technical
         | questions?
        
           | grogenaut wrote:
           | Depends on the job and the question.
           | 
           | I had a candidate that didn't believe they were allowed to
           | make decisions, just carry out edicts of "the leaders" even
           | if terrible idea. They didn't believe they should ask
           | questions to clarify or help structure the request. This
           | person has worked at a higherarchial bank then a rule by fiat
           | game studio.
           | 
           | There's no way I could have used this person at our company.
           | Didn't matter their tech chops. They would have been a
           | disaster. In this case behavioral would have caught them.
           | 
           | Instead I asked a tech question which they failed hard and
           | started blaming the recruiter on for not knowing this was a
           | tech position. I tried pivoting to behavioral and it went
           | downhill from there.
           | 
           | I had to try and save the interview by talking about games
           | war stories for 45 minutes taking us over by 30 minutes. It
           | was not great.
           | 
           | But if I had caught it with behavioral I would still had to
           | ask the tech question for fairness. So I'm not sure what
           | would have helped.
        
         | jahewson wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | abenga wrote:
           | I would not care to work for a team where members flippantly
           | disregard exclusion of significant subsections of the
           | population from their ranks, for whatever excuse they design
           | to choose. Either way. There are competent people of all
           | colours, creeds, and classes, and if your company is not able
           | to get any, there's something wrong with you.
        
             | jahewson wrote:
             | Indeed, at scale, a company that is significantly
             | unrepresentative of the population from which it draws its
             | employees surely has something wrong with it. That's
             | basically what these studies show (flaws notwithstanding).
             | 
             | But that's got nothing to do with individual teams (unless
             | they're huge) which are far too small to exhibit
             | population-level statistical behaviour. I see this claim
             | repeated often but the sources always end up being these
             | flimsy studies of company-wide public company reporting
             | correlated with market performance.
        
               | therealdrag0 wrote:
               | Agree. Using market performance as the primary indicator
               | of the success of failure of workplace attributes seems
               | very suspect IMO.
               | 
               | I can't believe how much stock I've seen out in studies
               | that just boiled down to "1 year trial showed 4 day
               | workweek didn't impact performance as measured by stock
               | price." wat.
        
       | oofta-boofta wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | gdsdfe wrote:
       | most of the first round I've done are just leet code ... also
       | saying the market is terrible is an understatement, it's the
       | worst I've seen in over a decade.
        
       | speak_plainly wrote:
       | It's sad this is the reality of hiring now. It's byzantine and
       | wasteful and I'm surprised that companies are willing to burn
       | money this way. There are great candidates who may not perform
       | well in an interview and there are a lot of serious clowns that
       | can waltz through this process. The questions being asked are not
       | likely going to yield useful information and the whole thing
       | seems designed by pick-up artists to neg candidates into
       | accepting bad offers. Why stop at 6 interviews?
        
         | m3affan wrote:
         | But that's the reality. Doing good on an interview does not
         | guarantee the ability to do the job
        
         | zizee wrote:
         | What is a better alternative?
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | Certifications should mean something, not be a sales channel
           | for AWS
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | That sound terrible. Most jobs are for specialty positions,
             | so you'd need 10,000's of different certifications tracks.
             | 
             | A written engineering competency test (basically, an
             | industry-standard set of whiteboard questions) sounds good,
             | but, having hired credentialed-but-incompetent engineers
             | from other fields, I can definitely say it helps a lot less
             | than you'd think.
        
           | speak_plainly wrote:
           | Reading and assessing resumes and having a single interview
           | with HR and the hiring manager or a panel. And this process
           | should fit within the larger operational framework and
           | processes of a company.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | therealdrag0 wrote:
             | Have you been involved in hiring software engineers much?
        
             | FabHK wrote:
             | How can 2 measurements (CV + 1 i/v) be better than 8
             | measurements (CV + 7 i/vs, with different kind of
             | questions, to boot)?
        
               | speak_plainly wrote:
               | This is a misplaced concreteness fallacy.
        
               | tourist2d wrote:
               | This is you deflecting a valid question.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | I understand your sentiment, but, having been on the other side
         | of the fence, there are a lot of people that apply for jobs
         | they're completely unqualified for, and they end up being most
         | of your candidate pool. (Come to think of it, this would make a
         | decent whiteboard question about reservoir sampling without
         | replacement...)
         | 
         | Another way to think about it is that these interview processes
         | often have a ~ 1% acceptance rate, and the softball questions
         | typically filter 80-90% of candidates.
         | 
         | So, yeah, it sucks for a qualified candidate if they fail half
         | their interviews, but they'll end up getting a job somewhere.
         | That's much better for them than working at a company where 99%
         | of the engineers can't perform basic coding tasks or explain
         | how products in their industry segment are designed.
        
       | 1letterunixname wrote:
       | Uh, no. The answer is to:
       | 
       | - Have marketable skills and experience
       | 
       | - Market and communicate these effectively
       | 
       | - Take many interviews because too many are arbitrary and some
       | are terrible places you don't want to work
       | 
       | - Aim to be fit, in good health and spirits, and presentable
       | 
       | - Be honest
       | 
       | In general, everything works out because the synchronicity of
       | individuals and organizations is a self-selecting phenomenon.
        
         | mynameisvlad wrote:
         | > Aim to be fit, in good health
         | 
         | Unless you're interviewing to be a personal trainer, this
         | doesn't really have any relevancy.
         | 
         | Like yes, be presentable, don't be a slob. But you don't have
         | to be "fit" or "in good health" to land a job.
        
           | ok123456 wrote:
           | Physical fitness is a reflection of your discipline and a
           | signal that you think clearly.
        
             | vba616 wrote:
             | You do not live in the same society as some of us.
             | 
             | Below is a story about how insisting that a _fitness
             | instructor_ look physically fit is unreasonable and
             | sometimes illegal.
             | 
             | The icing on the cake is that her day job is said to have
             | been in tech, in SF.
             | 
             | `` Jennifer Portnick, a 240-pound San Francisco aerobics
             | instructor rejected by Jazzercise because of her size, has
             | reached an agreement under which the firm will drop its
             | requirement that instructors look fit.
             | 
             | After weeks of mediation with the San Francisco Human
             | Rights Commission, Jazzercise Inc., the world's biggest
             | dance-fitness organization, agreed to change company
             | policy.
             | 
             | The case, which drew international attention, was the first
             | to be settled under San Francisco's "fat and short" law, an
             | ordinance barring discrimination on the basis of weight and
             | height.
             | 
             | "I'm absolutely thrilled with this outcome," said Portnick,
             | 38, a computer systems training manager who works out six
             | days a week and has sufficient stamina to lead back-to-back
             | aerobics classes.
             | 
             | "I'm lucky to live in San Francisco, where there's a law to
             | protect people like me." ''
             | 
             | https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/EXERCISING-HER-RIGHT-
             | TO-...
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | I know plenty of unfit people who think clearly. I know
             | plenty of fit people that have no discipline.
             | 
             | Do you have a scientific study that proves any of this
             | without a doubt or are you just pushing your own biases and
             | societal norms onto candidates?
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | Colcombe, S., & Kramer, A. F. (2003). Fitness effects on
               | the cognitive function of older adults: A meta-analytic
               | study. Psychological Science, 14(2), 125-130.
               | 
               | Hillman, C. H., Erickson, K. I., & Kramer, A. F. (2008).
               | Be smart, exercise your heart: Exercise effects on brain
               | and cognition. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 9(1), 58-65.
               | 
               | Erickson, K. I., et al. (2011). Exercise training
               | increases size of hippocampus and improves memory.
               | Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 108(7),
               | 3017-3022.
               | 
               | Voss, M. W., et al. (2013). Plasticity of brain networks
               | in a randomized intervention trial of exercise training
               | in older adults. Frontiers in Aging Neuroscience, 5, 32.
               | 
               | Loprinzi, P. D. (2019). The effects of exercise on memory
               | function among young to middle-aged adults: Systematic
               | review and recommendations for future research. American
               | Journal of Health Promotion, 33(6), 879-889.
               | 
               | Northey, J. M., et al. (2018). Exercise interventions for
               | cognitive function in adults older than 50: A systematic
               | review with meta-analysis. British Journal of Sports
               | Medicine, 52(3), 154-160.
               | 
               | Roig, M., et al. (2013). The effects of cardiovascular
               | exercise on human memory: A review with meta-analysis.
               | Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews, 37(8), 1645-1666.
               | 
               | Smith, P. J., et al. (2010). Aerobic exercise and
               | neurocognitive performance: A meta-analytic review of
               | randomized controlled trials. Psychosomatic Medicine,
               | 72(3), 239-252.
               | 
               | Schmolesky, M. T., et al. (2013). Aerobic exercise
               | improves cognition and cerebrovascular regulation in
               | older adults. Neurology, 81(11), 1074-1080.
        
             | gdsdfe wrote:
             | so to you someone with a disability shouldn't get a job ??
        
               | latency-guy2 wrote:
               | Yes. Absolutely. Many jobs at that, not necessarily
               | related to the immediate discussion at hand, but many
               | occupations require physical ability.
        
               | ok123456 wrote:
               | People with disabilities can be physically fit and
               | active. You can work around your limitations.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | gherkinnn wrote:
           | I think you underestimate how much looks affect your success.
           | 
           | And being fit (not to be confused with a hulking mountain of
           | muscle) and in good health is a large part of looks.
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | I think you _massively_ overestimate how much it affects
             | your success in this field. Maybe if we were in the
             | modeling business or another where looks are critical. But
             | we're not; your looks are not an indicator of your skills,
             | the actual thing people are judging.
             | 
             | As long as you look presentable, your skills outweigh looks
             | by magnitudes.
        
       | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
       | OK so I may be biased but please don't do this. After a couple of
       | interviews everybody is tired. 1-2 short questions are perfectly
       | fine, but some people treat it as "the floor is yours". You won't
       | make a better impression by asking questions, but you can make it
       | worse. For most people though, it doesn't matter at all. Use the
       | time you had before, when being asked, to show your best side.
        
       | oneayy4 wrote:
       | what is a terrible talent market? is it when major corporations
       | reach all time high profits while laying off most of their
       | employees?
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | It's that, plus the candidates flip them the bird, and go to
         | smaller companies.
         | 
         | Most of the places that just laid off are also mandating work
         | from office, and are having a very hard time with attrition and
         | hiring.
         | 
         | This is a perfect time to go to a company without those
         | problems, since they'll be hiring much better than average
         | these days, and, with any luck, their major corporation
         | competitors are going to see their roadmaps implode.
        
       | brookst wrote:
       | Article suggests more research and prep for a 30 minute first
       | round than I've ever done for a half-day loop. Good lord. If you
       | have to work that hard to seem like a good candidate, the real
       | job is going to be a nightmare.
        
         | temp12192021 wrote:
         | More than I spent studying in college.
         | 
         | Interviewing has gotten out of hand...
        
           | HPsquared wrote:
           | The entirety of the years spent studying in college is within
           | the "interview prep" budget for most people. It's all
           | interview prep. Really your whole CV content is interview
           | prep.
        
             | Scarblac wrote:
             | Your whole life leading up to the interview was prep! I'm
             | not old, I just did some thorough preparation for your
             | interview.
             | 
             | No wait, that's not what they're talking about. They mean
             | extra prep specifically done for that specific interview.
        
         | Aachen wrote:
         | I don't know what a half day loop is, but a few hours preparing
         | for interviews doesn't seem weird to me. Do you have more than
         | 1-3 serious interviews anytime you want to switch jobs?
         | 
         | For me, the problem is that 95% doesn't reply to their
         | application form or email box, so that's where I'd optimise for
         | time spent.
         | 
         | Sometimes I get recruiter calls and interviews stemming from
         | that I'd not classify as serious, like I might do 20-30 minutes
         | beforehand to figure out what this company does and whether/how
         | it fits into my life, but if I'm not actually looking then I'm
         | not going to spend hours preparing my presentation. Seems to
         | still work to get an offer, though; they seem biased towards
         | those they initiated contact with
        
       | angarg12 wrote:
       | > Formulate high-signal questions (to get interviewers thinking).
       | Interviews are often won or lost by the questions you ask the
       | interviewer at the end. Half of the battle is preparing well and
       | showing up to answer the interviewer's questions; the other half
       | is asking them questions that get them thinking (and make you
       | stand out).
       | 
       | I've performed hundreds of FAANG interviews, and I categorize
       | this firmly in the "interview astrology" side. In my company we
       | don't use questions asked by the candidate to determine the
       | outcome (at least not for software engineers), and often we don't
       | even record them. It sounds good to "impress your interviewer
       | with your questions" but we are mindful about biases that might
       | favour some candidates e.g. those with particularly good
       | storytelling skills.
       | 
       | My advice would be to not overthink it. Just ask the questions
       | that are genuinely important to you, and don't try to focus on
       | impressing your interviewer.
        
         | Zach_the_Lizard wrote:
         | I think the questions that matter are clarifying questions in
         | e.g. architecture rounds.
         | 
         | E.g. design a document storage system
         | 
         | Asking about requirements can help provide evidence you're
         | aware of tradeoffs, various concepts, etc. and separate
         | yourself from other candidates. Not surface level "what QPS do
         | we need to support?" type questions, but beyond that.
         | 
         | Otherwise, yes, I agree, questions are not recorded and don't
         | matter (unless there's a serious red flag like someone asking
         | if they can avoid working with $GROUP_THEY_DONT_LIKE which
         | raises HR type concerns)
        
         | whafro wrote:
         | On the other hand, at small companies, this can be a big deal.
         | FAANG companies pretty much know how interested you are in
         | working there, based on the fact that you're the type of person
         | who thinks they want to work at a FAANG company. And since the
         | scope of these companies is so large, there are all sorts of
         | ways to fit your interests into work at such a company over the
         | mid-to-long-term.
         | 
         | But early-stage companies are looking for folks who have an
         | interest and understanding in the task at hand. For many hiring
         | managers at these companies, expertise - or at least interest -
         | in the problem space is noteworthy. On the hard-skill side, it
         | can suggest that you may be able to help see around corners
         | with your product team, identifying and solving issues during
         | planning or on the fly. On the soft-skill side, it can suggest
         | that you're bringing positive energy and motivation to the
         | still-nascent team.
         | 
         | In the end, it's still a matter of knowing your audience and
         | reading the room. It may be a waste of time in some places, and
         | may be the difference-maker in others.
        
           | lmeyerov wrote:
           | Yep.
           | 
           | Folks at 200+ and especially FAANG companies are mostly
           | interchangeable. The interviewer is mostly derisking chance
           | of a dud and comparing a 86%er vs 87%er. A few exceptions
           | like at the rarer million dollar comp level. For everyone
           | else, especially non-insiders... Cookie cutter comparisons it
           | is, and whatever edge.
           | 
           | Startups are very much making a more existential bet. For our
           | openings, I'm equally looking for ownership, interest in our
           | customers/mission/long-term, and other bits that have little
           | to with a whiteboard. On a HN Hiring thread from yesterday,
           | you'd be surprised how many emails I got that were 'here is
           | my stale CV from 5-10 years ago' and little about why they're
           | excited to do hard things with us. Likewise, if someone is on
           | a second round with us and hasn't bothered to use our free
           | tier, that also tells us a lot about their (dis)interest in
           | doing for what is, for everyone else on our team, career-
           | defining creations.
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | > _if someone is on a second round with us and hasn 't
             | bothered to use our free tier, that also tells us_
             | 
             | Now that you've said it on HN... soon, most of the
             | applicants you get using your free tier by second round
             | will be doing so because that'll be added as a standard
             | part of the generic tech jobs interviewing ritual for
             | people who just go through the motions (along with
             | memorizing Leetcode, and practicing good-sounding lies to
             | behavioral questions).
        
               | lmeyerov wrote:
               | Great!
               | 
               | I can't fathom having a serious discussion about a 2-5
               | year career bet, and hopefully even more impacting, and
               | not having a serious look at the actual work or at least
               | the highly related technologies. Some of our best hires
               | have been from our userbase and the OSS communities we
               | helped start, and some of our misses have been from those
               | who couldn't get on board with those.
               | 
               | (We don't do leetcode etc, though for junior roles we do
               | ask for a Jupyter notebook, and for senior, might do a
               | contracting period if mutually agreeable.)
        
               | twic wrote:
               | A friend told me that Bumble require you sign up to apply
               | for a job. And now my pet theory about why guys get so
               | few swipes back is that they're all swiping away on
               | leagues of job applicants.
        
             | grogenaut wrote:
             | Frankly most startups aren't very interesting. The ones who
             | want you to be super interested are often the most boring
             | ideas "were passionate about sox compliance", and if they
             | are interesting they won't tell you shit about the company
             | due to secret sauce or just moving so fast nothing is
             | documented. It's hard as a candidate to get excited about
             | every idea. And many people purposefully don't as they
             | don't want to get shot down later by a job they were
             | excited about. Finally if I'm actively looking I have 10
             | leads I'm following and I'm practicing for interviews.
             | Signing up for every beta tryout eats into that time. I'll
             | take a look when ivw got an offer.
             | 
             | I took a career pivot from web forms /rails to AAA
             | playstation games. I played the game after they flew me to
             | Seattle and gave me an offer. It involved buying a
             | PlayStation 3 and their previous game. And that's an
             | obviously cool job. Bought it right after I landed home and
             | played it the next morning. Accepted the offer a few hours
             | later.
        
               | noirbot wrote:
               | Yea, I've had a similar issue happen to me. Was
               | interviewing at a small-mid company that I was
               | increasingly interested in and passionate about, and had
               | really delved into with various interviewers to learn
               | about their business and what made them a good product
               | and good place to work.
               | 
               | Ultimately, they went with someone else. I'm not upset
               | about it, but it stung more than getting another form
               | letter from some large company. It feels almost cruel as
               | an interviewer/hiring manager to expect every viable
               | candidate to get really invested in you and your company
               | when you know you're going to reject some high percentage
               | of them just because you can't hire more than a few
               | people.
        
               | lmeyerov wrote:
               | Yes, generally I assume each candidate is having serious
               | conversations with 2-5 others, and non-serious with more.
               | We do the same. There are exceptions, like folks not
               | actively interviewing, but that's the typical case.
               | 
               | It is big stakes for all involved, so someone not
               | treating it seriously is a big warning flag. That is fine
               | for later stage companies where individuals mostly need
               | to not screw up and add reliable incremental value, and
               | the resume screens and interview processes people are
               | complaining about here reflect that need. Different job,
               | different interview..
        
               | noirbot wrote:
               | I certainly understand the stakes for you in making the
               | right hire, but you're fundamentally much less invested
               | in the candidate than you seem to be asking them to be in
               | you. At the end of the day, you can reject them and pick
               | someone else, or wait for someone better, while it seems
               | like you have some expectation that they should be upset
               | and disappointed if they don't make the cut with you.
               | 
               | Ultimately, if I'm really passionate, but don't have all
               | the skills you want, or want more money than you can
               | provide, than you'll pass on me and move on to the next
               | candidate. That's fine, but if we've spent the time
               | making sure I feel like I could really create something
               | good with you and your team, and that I'd be a good part
               | of it, that's just setting up 3-5 of your candidates to
               | have a really strong letdown, even beyond what's already
               | a difficult thing to hear.
        
               | lmeyerov wrote:
               | Agreed all around.
               | 
               | For us, folks using our tech and then realizing what it's
               | for is the beginning of much more interesting technical &
               | mission conversations than programming language,
               | monetization model, or RSU vs ISO. I rather talk about
               | where data analysis is going for tough problem XYZ, and
               | what we - and their area of ownership - needs to do to
               | help get our users and the tech community there.
               | 
               | Both sides needs to be ready for that conversation
               | though, and those are the candidates that stick out. And
               | yeah, if the company is say streamlining parking, or the
               | candidate just wants a 9-5 -- both of which are fine --
               | it'll be a different kind of interview.
        
             | eschneider wrote:
             | > Likewise, if someone is on a second round with us and
             | hasn't bothered to use > our free tier, that also tells us
             | a lot about their (dis)interest in doing for > what is, for
             | everyone else on our team, career-defining creations.
             | 
             | This makes sense. After a first round, if I'm still
             | interested in a company, I want to dig in and find out
             | everything I can to see if they're a likely fit and signing
             | up for a free tier (if there is one) is absolutely a no
             | brainer. And it's usually is a great way to form some
             | meaningful questions to ask in the next round of interviews
             | if I AM interested.
        
             | caskstrength wrote:
             | > On a HN Hiring thread from yesterday, you'd be surprised
             | how many emails I got that were 'here is my stale CV from
             | 5-10 years ago' and little about why they're excited to do
             | hard things with us.
             | 
             | I was about to write a moderately snarky comment and went
             | to your profile to check which Java banking middleware or
             | Rails-based Uber-for-dogs your startup is building for
             | applicants to be excited about... but looking at the
             | description your company seems quite interesting! Sorry to
             | hear that you've got flooded with generic low-effort
             | application from disinterested people. I guess in current
             | job market some people just desperately knocking on all
             | doors hoping to get any job at all.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | A lot of people here would argue it's just a numbers
               | game. I've been lucky over the past 25 years to hit 2 or
               | 3 targeted possibilities with a single email to someone I
               | knew. But I realize that's probably not typical.
        
             | mikebenfield wrote:
             | > if someone is on a second round with us and hasn't
             | bothered to use our free tier, that also tells us a lot
             | about their (dis)interest in doing for what is, for
             | everyone else on our team, career-defining creations.
             | 
             | This is on a completely different planet from my experience
             | as a candidate and as an interviewer.
             | 
             | It looks like you're doing interesting work, and it might
             | be great to work for you. But that's true of a lot of other
             | companies. You're asking for a level of interest and
             | dedication to your company that is completely unwarranted
             | at this stage. For all I know you're about to ghost me. I
             | suspect a major effect of your approach is that you select
             | people who are better BS artists and have fewer employment
             | options.
        
               | lmeyerov wrote:
               | Yes, we are looking for folks to work with us, not for
               | us. Different mindset & process. We try not to hire ex-
               | FAANG (but occasionally do) in part because of this kind
               | of difference.
               | 
               | It's fascinating to see so much resistance to this kind
               | of thinking for a forum that is nominally about startups.
               | In a sense that's good - some people are well-suited for
               | the needs of scaleups and post-scale, vs startups (0-1,
               | 1-10), and recognizing that is healthy. What you do &
               | learn in a big company or a already-figured-it-out late-
               | stage & highly funded VC co is different from the wild
               | west stage of startups.
        
               | oxfordmale wrote:
               | I will work for you, not with you, as the loyalty of your
               | company is non existent. I worked for many start ups, and
               | enjoyed working on that type of challenges, but I am
               | always aware loyalty is non existent. It is a red flag if
               | company talks about "we are a family" or "work with us".
        
               | chrisdbanks wrote:
               | Maybe this is why you've been ghosted so much.
        
               | mikebenfield wrote:
               | I haven't been ghosted "so much." I've worked at a cool
               | startup and two FAANGs. But there's no guarantee the
               | interview process will go your way no matter how good you
               | are; there's a lot of luck and interpretation involved.
        
         | yodsanklai wrote:
         | Exactly, same thing in my company, at least for technical
         | interviews. I always tell interviewees that questions are off
         | the record, and if they don't have any questions, it's totally
         | fine.
        
         | KnobbleMcKnees wrote:
         | > My advice would be to not overthink it. Just ask the
         | questions that are genuinely important to you, and don't try to
         | focus on impressing your interviewer.
         | 
         | I agree with this, except in one sense that I think lends to
         | the point of the blog post.
         | 
         | The questions you ask can drive perception of how you might act
         | as an employee. On more than one occasion I have asked a
         | question about X at an interview and then had a subsequent
         | conversation with a recruiter where they ask "is [something
         | related to X] a concern for you?"
         | 
         | I've not ever had one discontinue me due to it but it shows
         | what's coming up in conversation at the interview debriefs.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | OTOH, I have known interviewers that would not pass an
         | interviewee that asked no questions. Wasn't first-round
         | interviews though.
        
           | noirbot wrote:
           | I do think I'd mark it against someone if I reserved 10-15
           | minutes at the end of an interview and they didn't have
           | anything at all they wanted to know about the job or the
           | company. I'm not expecting them to have a laundry list, but
           | still. Or if you're not going to ask something, then have
           | something to say at least. I'd rather you just go "No
           | questions, since I assume this job pays me in money I can use
           | to buy things?".
           | 
           | Getting a new job is a big deal - either you're about to quit
           | somewhere and presumably you're looking because you care
           | about finding a new employer that's better on some axis than
           | your current job, or you're out of work and desperate to take
           | anything, which is fine as well, but if you don't want to
           | just admit that, you should probably have some idea of what
           | to say otherwise.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | > and they didn't have anything at all they wanted to know
             | about the job or the company.
             | 
             | I assume that does not include scenarios where the large
             | company interview claims they can't answer questions about
             | a specific job until much later after a "team matching"
             | step.
        
               | noirbot wrote:
               | Sure. Obviously there's exceptions, and I mostly haven't
               | worked anywhere where that's been an issue, but you also
               | know what you're in for if you're interviewing somewhere
               | that size. It's a very different process.
               | 
               | That said, I've regularly done interviews from both sides
               | where I wasn't talking with someone who would be anywhere
               | close to my role/team, and there's still plenty to ask
               | there. At worst, you'll learn some about a different part
               | of the organization, and maybe get some interesting
               | contrast to other people you talk to later.
               | 
               | Even finding out what things are and aren't the same
               | across the whole company can be interesting. Does
               | vacation policy vary by team? Their use of various tools?
               | Their work/ticket management process?
        
             | dist-epoch wrote:
             | How many companies would actually answer the real questions
             | people have? You might actually get red flagged. So they go
             | to GlassDoor for those.
             | 
             | And then you are left with "polite questions", fillers.
        
               | noirbot wrote:
               | It depends on the questions - I don't feel like I've
               | often gotten bad answers when I've asked and I know I try
               | my hardest to be as honest as possible when candidates
               | ask me hard questions about my position.
               | 
               | If I get red flagged for asking about their on-call
               | policies or office-work plans or how they're handling the
               | position/responsibilities that I would be taking on, then
               | that seems like a bullet dodged? It's not like I'm
               | expecting people to ask "So tell me about why you hate
               | your manager" or "When was the last time you fired
               | someone". You can ask probing but polite questions that
               | give you information without having people tell you the
               | sort of angry gossip you get on Glassdoor.
               | 
               | Obviously, tailor this to how desperate you are. If you
               | want absolutely zero chance anyone will reject you for
               | any reason, then you _should_ be asking the most fluffy
               | questions you can. I certainly don 't reject people for
               | asking those questions. I just find it a weird signal
               | when someone seemingly doesn't even want to pretend to
               | care about content, structure, and culture of the job
               | they're interviewing for.
        
           | jghn wrote:
           | The only universal truth when it comes to interviews is that
           | there are no universal truths.
           | 
           | As an interviewee there is nothing you can do that will
           | universally be read as a positive across all interviewers.
           | There are so many contradictory rules among interviewers that
           | you might as well not bother gaming the system and do what
           | you want to do. Let the chips fall as they may.
           | 
           | As an interviewer, no filter you put in place will give you a
           | perfect read on what it's intended to test. For instance I
           | know I have my quirks in terms of things that'll turn me off
           | of a candidate based on resume alone. But I also recognize
           | that many candidates are coached to do it this way in the
           | first place. So I need to be conscious of this and try to not
           | interpret these things as "shitty candidate"
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jghn wrote:
         | As an interviewer, the only signal I ever take away from
         | interviewee questions is if they manage to come across like a
         | complete asshole. And this isn't common because most people
         | aren't complete assholes, and those who are usually have
         | displayed their colors earlier on in the interview.
         | 
         | As an interviewee, I refuse to put any effort into gaming the
         | system and hoping to come across as a better candidate. I treat
         | these sessions as me interviewing them. And yes, this means
         | that a lot of times my questions will come across as banal. But
         | you can get some decent signal on red flags by asking several
         | potential peers to describe their day, challenges that they're
         | facing, and that sort of thing.
        
           | pandaman wrote:
           | >As an interviewee, I refuse to put any effort into gaming
           | the system and hoping to come across as a better candidate.
           | 
           | This is something missing from all the "interview coaching"
           | advise and very few people seem to understand.
           | 
           | Suppose there is an actual technique that allows you to get a
           | job you otherwise would not get. Say, hypothetically, you
           | used it to become an astronaut. Do you think you perform well
           | as an astronaut even though the selection process would have
           | culled you? I'd imagine you get kicked out anyways so all you
           | gained is a line in a resume. The same advise also insists
           | that having a whole bunch of 0.5-1 year "gigs" in your work
           | history is normal, but is it really? Do people really believe
           | hiring managers don't see the pattern? Does anyone really
           | think that people go: "Oh, we should hire this person, he
           | worked in all of FAANG, one year in each, must be very
           | good!"?
        
             | solarmist wrote:
             | Do you really think interviews only cull people that would
             | be a poor fit?
             | 
             | People are terrible judges of character and interviewing is
             | every bit the shit show dating is.
        
               | pandaman wrote:
               | It depends on the company, I guess. The first-round
               | interviews, which are the subject of this topic, that I
               | have seen, were all Fizz Buzz level to cull the obviously
               | incompetent.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | Well, yes, interview preparation is a bet on the incapacity
             | of the interviewer to determine a candidate's capacity.
             | 
             | Anyway, neither of those things is binary, if you ask me, I
             | would really advise into getting some amount of
             | preparation; but if it too useful, it's actually a red
             | flag.
        
               | pandaman wrote:
               | Indeed, it's a bet that you, an outsider, know better
               | than the interviewers that you will not be fired after
               | the first performance review (note that it says nothing
               | about your general competency, just the performance
               | metrics of this particular company). If you had not been
               | personally involved, which side of such a bet you would
               | have taken?
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | On few occasions the questions interviewees asked at the end
           | did help me form a better picture of them as candidates;
           | example, someone asked what Java version we run predominantly
           | and, and this is the important bit, didn't balk when the
           | answer was some ancient LTS version but instead a nervous
           | laugh of commiseration followed by war story time. This told
           | me a lot both about the candidate's maturity and experience.
        
             | jrockway wrote:
             | That's a good heuristic. Someone just starting doesn't know
             | what "best practices" are. Someone early into their career
             | demands strict adherence to the best practices. Someone
             | later into their career knows what rules can be bent, and
             | knows a good reason for doing it.
        
         | Arch-TK wrote:
         | It's weird that you dont judge potential hires on the quality
         | of their questions, the most important parts of most creative
         | jobs are being able to ask the right questions.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | The questions a candidate asks during that part of the
           | interview have almost no overlap to the questions they would
           | ask as part of a real job.
           | 
           | And no, not really. My job is to assess their technical
           | skills, not how well they ask me about my work life balance
           | while in a relatively high stress environment.
        
             | Arch-TK wrote:
             | I'm not talking about inane questions like your work life
             | balance. I am talking about questions about your product,
             | your design decisions, etc.
             | 
             | If I am interviewing at a company I certainly want to know
             | that I am not going to be working at a dumpster fire. I
             | want to know how you internally resolve conflicts relating
             | to code reviews for example, so I know that you uphold
             | standards and dont just allow things to get progressively
             | worse as time goes on due to systematic indifference. Now
             | you could be lying to me but that's why I ask more than one
             | question. Certainly to me it feels like if a candidate is
             | asking these kinds of questions during an interview process
             | then that candidate also cares about those things, which
             | depending on whether you are running a java sweatshop or an
             | organized and productive development company seems like it
             | would have some importance.
        
               | yodsanklai wrote:
               | Maybe the candidate don't feel they need to ask such
               | questions because they have 5 friends who work for the
               | company and know the answer already. From an interviewer
               | perspective, you get more signal from the candidate by
               | asking them such questions in a behavior interview in a
               | more standardized way.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > I want to know how you internally resolve conflicts
               | relating to code reviews for example
               | 
               | I call this process fit. It's important to some
               | candidates, and some employers. It's clearly important to
               | you, and you should ask those questions; interviewing is
               | a two-way street.
               | 
               | But if I'm an employer that makes process a big deal, I'm
               | not giving you points for those questions, because I'm
               | going to be sussing out your process fit earlier anyway.
               | If I'm not an employer that makes process a big deal, I'm
               | probably not giving you points for those questions,
               | because it's not a big deal to me (this could be a red
               | flag for you, depending on the answers you get from your
               | probing questions)
        
             | pavlov wrote:
             | _> "The questions a candidate asks during that part of the
             | interview have almost no overlap to the questions they
             | would ask as part of a real job."_
             | 
             | An apt symmetry, as typically the questions a candidate
             | gets asked during an interview also have no overlap to the
             | questions they would get asked as part of the real job.
        
           | sigstoat wrote:
           | do you ask all of your interviewers the same set of questions
           | to ensure they're all suitably impressed by you?
           | 
           | if not how do you decide to allocate them?
        
           | leetcrew wrote:
           | the quality of questions is important during the technical
           | segment, almost as much as getting the correct (or at least
           | reasonable) answer/solution. charging into a solution without
           | picking up on the ambiguities is one of the classic ways a
           | leetcode legend fails a technical interview.
           | 
           | after all that, I feel the candidate deserves at least 5-10
           | minutes at the end to ask their own honest questions without
           | having to worry about what they're signaling.
        
           | jghn wrote:
           | When I'm asking an interviewer questions, I'm trying to get a
           | read on what it's like to work there. Are there any red flags
           | that'd turn me off? Is this a place I'll enjoy working? Do my
           | potential coworkers seem like decent people? Does the
           | work/life balance match what I want to see?
           | 
           | When I'm actually working at a place, I don't need to ask
           | those questions. I already know the answer.
        
             | Arch-TK wrote:
             | These questions are important but they are not the types of
             | questions I am asking about. Part of determining if you
             | want to work somewhere is figuring out how mature the team
             | is when it comes to design decisions and the development
             | process, to accurately ascertain this, you have to ask
             | technical questions, the act of asking these questions is
             | itself an indicator that you yourself are thinking about
             | these important things and as such value them and should,
             | to a well functioning development team with a working
             | product, indicate that you would at least contribute to
             | keeping things working optimally and contribute positively.
             | 
             | I would be worried if someone nevet asked about the thing
             | they were going to be working on, asked why certain design
             | decisions were made, or asked how it gets developed.
        
               | jghn wrote:
               | Sure, I agree. That's part of me finding out if I want to
               | work there.
               | 
               | The unfortunate reality is usually you're given 5-10 mins
               | at the end in a hasty "what would you like to ask me?" so
               | I tend to stick to the more basic type questions.
               | Repeating across interviewers to see what patterns pop
               | up.
               | 
               | That said I'm not shy about pushing back with questions
               | during an interview session itself, and that's where
               | things like you're talking about can get worked in. Of
               | course if they insist on "solve this problem" type
               | sessions, there's less of that. But it's also less likely
               | I want to work there. So it works out for me.
        
           | yodsanklai wrote:
           | One issue with that is it's very subjective. One interviewer
           | will be impressed by a question, and another will not.
        
         | belter wrote:
         | Out of those hundreds of interviews, can you discern some clear
         | patterns, that are common to all candidates that impress
         | positively?
        
         | mynameisvlad wrote:
         | This. I might call out a particularly good question in the
         | debrief but only as an aside.
         | 
         | I don't think I ever made a decision where the questions
         | factored in at all; most of the time there's more than enough
         | material in the actual interview to cover a decision being
         | made.
        
         | edelans wrote:
         | > hundreds of FAANG interviews
         | 
         | hundreds??
         | 
         | So that's at least 200. Assuming you interview for the 5 FAANG
         | in parallel, and you have, let's say 5 rounds per application
         | (and you do reach the 5th). You would have done the whole
         | process 8 times. Assuming they let you apply only once per
         | year, that means you have interviewed at the very least every
         | year for the last 8y. okay.
        
           | angarg12 wrote:
           | 517 interviews as an interviewer.
        
           | Centigonal wrote:
           | I assume they mean as the interviewer
        
         | samstave wrote:
         | I have failed several interviews by knowing too much about the
         | employer, or in cases, even the interviewer --- where I felt I
         | didnt have any pertinent questions to ask at the end of the
         | interview...
         | 
         | If I already know the answer I have to consciously remember to
         | still ask questions at the end....
         | 
         | No worse interview feeling of suddenly thinking of all the
         | questions you _should_ have asked after youve left the
         | meeting...
        
           | a_e_k wrote:
           | In the past, I've dealt with that by saying something like "I
           | _would_ ask you X, but I saw from [place] that the answer is
           | Y. Can you confirm that this is correct  / confirm that this
           | still true / tell me more?"
           | 
           | I put my cards on the table to show that I've done my
           | homework and establish what I know already, then elicit more
           | information. If there's nothing more to be said, then fine,
           | but at least an interviewer who cares what I ask will know
           | what I'm curious about even if I already happen to have an
           | answer. And if I'm wrong, then it gives them an opportunity
           | to correct the record. Or it gives them an opening to provide
           | additional nuance.
        
       | raldi wrote:
       | My eyes were rolling too much to finish this piece, but I'll
       | share a pair of tips:
       | 
       | In a technical interview, learn to recognize when the interviewer
       | is trying to help you, and take notice immediately when they do.
       | If they say, "Do you really need to use a float here?", nine
       | times out of ten what they really mean is, "Stop trying to use a
       | float here."
       | 
       | As an interviewer, it's really unpleasant to be trying to throw a
       | candidate a life preserver and have them keep shooing it away.
       | 
       | (Sometimes "Do you really need" questions are a trap and the
       | interviewer is testing your confidence, but in those cases it's
       | usually said with a completely different tone.)
       | 
       | My other tip is for the squishy personality test interview: come
       | into it smiling, and keep that up for no reason. The interviewer
       | will usually start doing it too, and that leads their brain to
       | think, "I'm smiling, so I must like this person."
        
         | mvdtnz wrote:
         | My top interview tip, and it's painful that I have to say this
         | but so, so many candidates get it wrong, is "answer the actual
         | question".
         | 
         | It is so frustrating when I word a question very specifically
         | and the candidate doesn't answer it. Most commonly it's a
         | question like "tell me about a time when you encountered a bug
         | in production, how you discovered it and the steps to resolve
         | it". And instead of answering the question, they tell me about
         | what they _would_ do, if they _had_ found a bug. Or worse, they
         | step me through some process that their company uses. I'm
         | looking for personal experience, not what you read on a blog
         | post once.
         | 
         | I also am mindful at the start of all of my interviews to tell
         | the candidate I am not trying to trick them, I'm just trying to
         | learn where they're at. So if I ask you for an experience you
         | haven't had, that's totally fine - no one has done everything,
         | we're just looking for the boundaries.
        
           | slyall wrote:
           | The problem is that you misunderstand the question you are
           | asking.
           | 
           | When you say "tell me about a time when" you are really
           | saying "Tell me a prepared story about when".
           | 
           | In this case the person didn't have a prepared answer for
           | that question so they went with a generic answer to show to
           | you that they knew what they were doing.
           | 
           | They could have found & fixed hundreds of bugs in production
           | over their career, but trying to recall an example that will
           | make a good story during an interview is hard and risky.
           | 
           | The good news is they will prepare a story for the next
           | interview at a different company.
        
         | andrewingram wrote:
         | With algorithmic questions, the life preservers often throw me
         | off more than they help. I had one which was actually wrong,
         | i.e the path I was going down was correct _and_ simpler. More
         | commonly though, if I'm struggling, I'm normally juggling too
         | many things in my head, and them adding another thing to think
         | about makes me drop all the balls.
         | 
         | I still value them in principle, but it seems to be a skill
         | that many interviewers haven't developed to the point where
         | they're a net positive.
        
           | timy2shoes wrote:
           | It can also be the case where the interviewer doesn't really
           | understand the question and are going from prompts. So when
           | you try to get further understanding of their hint from them,
           | they just repeat the hint. I think this reflects poorly on
           | the company culture, that they're throwing interviewers out
           | there who aren't ready.
        
             | noirbot wrote:
             | It definitely can, but I've been asking one of my questions
             | for almost a decade at this point, and I've seen nearly
             | every attempt at a solution that anyone would come up with.
             | Often the difficulty is that the candidate is working
             | towards something that may be a possible solution, but has
             | a myriad of edge cases that they're going to discover and
             | end up needing to spend far too long trying to work out.
             | Meanwhile, there's a much easier solution they could do
             | instead.
             | 
             | I'm not sure of a good way to re-target someone in that
             | situation. I have let a candidate just go down that line
             | before because they were making swift progress on it, and I
             | gave them pretty good marks at the end for an incomplete
             | solution that I was pretty sure they could have worked out
             | eventually, but for other people it's much harder. I
             | totally sympathize with the disruption of an interviewer
             | essentially telling you "not like that" when you're
             | frantically trying to come up with a quick and workable
             | solution, but at the same time, you're probably not going
             | to make yourself look good if you're putting together an
             | increasingly obviously unviable solution by bolting on more
             | and more logic as you find holes.
        
               | slyall wrote:
               | So what are you testing for in this interview?
               | 
               | Is it:
               | 
               | Demonstrate to me you meet our hiring skill level by
               | working on the problem.
               | 
               | or:
               | 
               | Find the best solution to this problem, get $200k/year
        
               | noirbot wrote:
               | Every interview is "Demonstrate you meet the hiring
               | criterion, get $XYX/year". It's not as if I reject
               | everyone who doesn't arrive at the perfect solution, but
               | I do need to get some signal that even if they don't get
               | to it that they're thinking about the problem in a
               | productive way. Trying to do a problem one way and then
               | adjusting when you realize it may not be a good way to
               | solve it is a common and important thing that happens to
               | most engineers regularly. Soliciting or synthesizing
               | advice from your peers is a bit part of it as well.
               | Obviously an interview isn't a normal "we're working
               | together on a team" environment, which is why I'm musing
               | about how best to provide advice and guidance without
               | making an already stressful situation worse.
               | 
               | I don't just reject people who give a sub-optimal
               | solution, but going down those unfruitful paths of
               | solving the problem often leads to situations where they
               | stymied and just staring at the problem trying to work
               | out how to work around what have become larger and larger
               | issues with that approach. At that point, I'd either want
               | them to recognize the issue and try another approach, or
               | ask me for advice, or accept my nudge to find another
               | path.
               | 
               | It's a problem I like to give _because_ it 's a problem
               | that's easy to demonstrate your baseline skill at and get
               | out a simple working solution, and then we can spend the
               | rest of the time improving and optimizing.
        
           | ThalesX wrote:
           | I've had an experience where the interviewer tried to stop me
           | from doing a DFS on a graph. Then they tried to tell me
           | that's not how DFS is done. I am a pretty chill and curious
           | guy, so I turned this into a discussion. At the end, I go
           | like 'so my initial approach was correct', he goes like
           | 'yeah, I guess it was' then I never heard from them again. I
           | still think about that interview from time to time.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | Here's a controversial opinion: one of the top tips to passing an
       | interview is just to lie.
       | 
       | I don't mean lying about qualifications, or lying about jobs
       | you've had in the past. But, I feel no compunction about
       | answering a question like "tell me about a time when you had a
       | conflict with a colleague" by making up a scenario that could
       | plausibly have happened and hypothesizing about what you might do
       | in it. The reality is that no two such scenarios are ever exactly
       | the same, so a real anecdote would not be helpful, even if you
       | happen to have a good one in mind (which I never do). Next time,
       | the people involved (including you) are going to be different,
       | with different personalities, a different set of problems and
       | pressures and constraints . Forget it, there's very low
       | predictive power in a question like that, even if the interviewer
       | were qualified to analyze you. So, just tell them what they want
       | to hear, and prove you speak the dumb language of corporate
       | interviews.
       | 
       | Is this unethical? Maybe, but only to the extent that such
       | questions are meaningful filters (which I believe they aren't).
       | And it is _surely_ no more unethical than answering a question
       | like  "why do you want to work for Company X?" by saying "I am
       | inspired by the mission and the fascinating problems you're
       | solving" rather than "the salary is higher than my current job,
       | and I think it will make a good stepping stone to an even bigger
       | salary at another company in a few years", which is what we would
       | say if genuine honesty were what that particular discourse was
       | trying to get at.
        
         | dahart wrote:
         | Seems risky and not worth it over a fluff question that is
         | unlikely to factor into the decision to hire you or not. Lying
         | is grounds for termination after getting the job if you're
         | caught. You might underestimate the ease of lying in an
         | interview, if you aren't prepared for followup questions or a
         | conversation. Speaking personally, it does seem a lot more
         | unethical than a rosy half-truth to me. I can be inspired by
         | the mission and problems and also interested in the salary &
         | resume filling aspects at the same time. Leaving some of them
         | out is quite different from fabricating experiences. I somewhat
         | doubt that lying will help you in the long term, giving a great
         | answer for this conflict question won't hide any technical
         | gaps.
        
         | eschneider wrote:
         | I would very much caution against doing that. I know when I'm
         | doing interviews and get tasked to ask these sorts of
         | questions, I usually ask follow up questions. I'm not trying to
         | figure out if someone's just making things up, but once in a
         | while, people draw a blank when you drill down on something and
         | that just looks weird.
         | 
         | It's far better to just prepare an answer based on something
         | that's actually happened to you, so if you have to explain
         | further, there's something actually there.
        
         | sctb wrote:
         | I think it's possible to underestimate the extent to which
         | people can perceive this type of dishonesty, because it may be
         | in the form of an uneasy and largely unconscious experience
         | that leads them to vaguely report "not a good fit".
        
         | mikebenfield wrote:
         | Yes, while I do not advocate lying, it seems clear to me that
         | this is the effect of these types of interview questions:
         | filtering for better BS artists. I am continually amazed that
         | anyone thinks these questions are doing anything else.
         | 
         | And in particular a lot of people seem to think it's impossible
         | to lie and not get caught out, which... all I can say to that
         | is I don't see how anyone who has lived as a human among other
         | humans could possibly think that.
        
         | blindriver wrote:
         | Yep. I am really good at coming up with stuff on the spot, so
         | when I last interviewed, I straight up made up some stuff for
         | my behavioral interviews.
         | 
         | I resorted to this because on my LinkedIn interview, the
         | behavioral interviewer kept pressing me when I told him that
         | the situation never came up (I can't remember exactly what it
         | was, I think if I was ever asked to work on something that I
         | disagreed with) and it dinged me on my evaluation. So from them
         | on, I would make up white lies to satisfy my interviewers. I
         | also make sure to note what I say on my interview notes so I
         | keep my stories straight.
         | 
         | Interviews want a certain "type" of answer, so if you don't
         | give it to them, more often than not they will ding you. The
         | same goes for Leetcode questions, if you get the answer wrong,
         | you will get passed over, but if you get the answer "too
         | quick", then you will get passed over because you were "too
         | prepared", so better to just pretend to struggle and come up
         | with the answer.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Mizoguchi wrote:
       | If you don't pass the screening interview is due to a few issues.
       | 
       | 1) You are applying to a role you don't meet the minimum
       | requirements for.
       | 
       | 2) Didn't take the time to research about the company, salary and
       | benefits, the product/service and the team you'll be working
       | with.
       | 
       | 3) Unrealistic expectations about compensation and benefits,
       | which you should have researched above.
       | 
       | The rest is just having a casual conversation with another human
       | being, so if you have communication skills that's another issue
       | you need to resolve.
        
         | parpfish wrote:
         | Re 2: one of my peeves in job listings is when the job
         | description will specify the name of the team using internal
         | labels/codenames that means nothing outside the company.
         | 
         | Bad: "this is a developer for the lookinglass team"
         | 
         | Good: "this is a developer for the team that builds monitoring
         | tool"
        
           | jghn wrote:
           | Yes, this.
           | 
           | A lot of people don't even realize they're doing this. In
           | particular, people who have spent a significant portion of
           | their career in one company (junior devs, long timers).
           | They're used to thinking of these terms as everyday
           | knowledge.
        
             | parpfish wrote:
             | it can also happen if recruiters start thinking that their
             | job is to make things easy for hiring managers rather than
             | making things easy for applicants
        
               | jghn wrote:
               | Oh hah, I didn't even notice you were talking about job
               | listings instead of candidates. Candidates do this too
               | was my point. But you're 100% correct. Companies are
               | *really* bad about this when
               | interviewing/screening/talking to candidates.
               | 
               | I go out of my way to talk in general terms, but then
               | I'll see a colleague talk in secret code. And it's like,
               | what on earth do they think the candidate took away from
               | that?
        
         | Arch-TK wrote:
         | How do you research the salary if all the company says is
         | "competitive salary". In the part of the UK I live in this
         | seems to mean anything from PS45k to PS150k for roles of
         | similar seniority.
         | 
         | Really if there's a mismatch in salary expectations then it's
         | not that you failed, it's that the company failed to
         | effectively communicate this information and wasted your time
         | on an introductory call.
        
       | jackblemming wrote:
       | The fact that we have long articles like this on how to game
       | interviews and then interviewers become keen and it becomes a
       | stupid meta back and forth game of cat and mouse. Meanwhile us
       | normal non-career ladder psychopaths want to talk and be treated
       | like regular people.
       | 
       | Every time I've been asked about a conflict I've had and how I
       | resolved it, I die a little bit inside.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | What's important is that you die a little bit inside _in STAR
         | format_.
        
           | FabHK wrote:
           | - So, once I interviewed with a company and was asked about a
           | conflict at work.
           | 
           | - The task at hand was to recall (or, for that matter,
           | invent) a situation involving a conflict at work, and
           | convince the interviewer that I handled it with aplomb.
           | 
           | - And so, I proceeded to recalling a situation involving a
           | conflict, explained the _S_ ituation to the interviewer in
           | detail, outlined the _T_ asks I was responsible for, conveyed
           | the _A_ ctions I took, and related the _R_ esult of my
           | actions.
           | 
           | - Result: I died a little bit inside, but the interviewer was
           | very impressed and offered me a job on the spot.
        
         | rkachowski wrote:
         | what's the real expectation for these conflict questions? is it
         | to show that you've encountered it before? that you can manage
         | it? that you're a reasonable person when faced with
         | interpersonal difficulties? that sometimes hard choices have to
         | be made wrt bad actors? that you are some kind of golden
         | Spongebob/Candide that has never experienced being ground up in
         | the gears of office politics?
         | 
         | I never know which way these are meant to go
        
           | minitoar wrote:
           | It depends on the role. IMO the bar is pretty low for many
           | engineering roles. Determining "that you're a reasonable
           | person when faced with interpersonal difficulties" is usually
           | good enough.
        
             | andrewingram wrote:
             | I'm really good at other people's interpersonal problems,
             | I'm a natural mediator. Less good at my own.
        
       | lopkeny12ko wrote:
       | A massive wall of text and just one paragraph that says "oh by
       | the way there will be a coding assessment in the interview, you
       | need to prepare for that as well, good luck." No further details.
       | 
       | Totally useless guide.
        
         | H8crilA wrote:
         | I think the assumption is that everyone understands that part
         | if it applies to their role, i.e. to the engineer role.
        
       | parpfish wrote:
       | In my experience, the first round interview is fizzbuzz because
       | it can be graded objectively. The questions the author brings up
       | like "Tell me about a time when you had a conflict with a
       | colleague" are saved for a later round
        
       | smnscu wrote:
       | I concur with the other comments here that this is almost
       | useless. It could be useful if you're interested in companies
       | dumb enough to care about most of the stuff this article focuses
       | on. I've conducted over 3,000 interviews, most of them via Karat
       | (https://karat.com/), and I can say that, as a software engineer
       | at least, you can safely ignore this kind of advice.
        
         | randcraw wrote:
         | Yep. This describes only how to game the famously byzantine
         | hiring process at FAANGs, a tiny highly abnormal subset of the
         | tech workspace out there -- only those companies that began as
         | explosive startups who gained giant market share mostly due to
         | great timing in catching the wave, not smart management
         | practices.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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