[HN Gopher] Harvard Legacy Admissions Targeted After Supreme Cou...
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       Harvard Legacy Admissions Targeted After Supreme Court Ruling
        
       Author : xqcgrek2
       Score  : 20 points
       Date   : 2023-07-03 19:24 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | pxmpxm wrote:
       | I kind of enjoy the irony of this policy being supported by
       | virtually everyone, other than the ostensibly-progressive Harvard
       | admissions committee.
       | 
       | Someone here has already made the argument that the entire
       | affirmative action set up at Harvard was just a way to hide the
       | rich and well-connected from any meritocratic scrutiny.
        
       | raincom wrote:
       | If Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford removes quotas for ALDC
       | (Athletes, Legacies, wealthy Donors, Children of staff and
       | faculty), these universities cease being elite. That's good for
       | America. However, it is bad for the administrators of these
       | schools, uber wealthy, the elite servant class of this uber
       | wealthy. What happens, if McKinsey, Bain, and BCG recruits more
       | from UC Berkeley, Rutgers University, Vanderbilt? What happens if
       | more of future judges and justices are graduates of LSU Law,
       | UTAustin Law, McGeorge School of Law? Basically, the elites can't
       | congregate around three or four schools. The power gets
       | distributed, as the kids of the elite attend many schools across
       | the country.
        
       | scrubs wrote:
       | This is way overdue
        
       | ivraatiems wrote:
       | Good.
       | 
       | I am affirmative action-curious, in that I do not necessarily
       | have the knee-jerk "this shouldn't have ever been allowed"
       | reaction that many on HN do. I think the case for affirmative
       | action is stronger than many would allow. That said, I am willing
       | to take the SCOTUS decision for what it is, because AA was an
       | extremely unpopular policy with admittedly terrible echoes of
       | past injustices built into it.
       | 
       | Legacy admissions, on the other hand, are pure trash, and I think
       | absolutely everyone except the beneficiaries of those policies
       | ought to agree on that. I truly can't think of a good argument in
       | favor of them other than "universities like money."
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | If rich kids can't socialize at school where will things move to?
       | Is there a rich people tinder or something?
        
         | uxp100 wrote:
         | Relatedly, if Harvard isn't a good place for smart and not rich
         | kids to socialize with rich kids, why would people want to go
         | there? The point of Harvard is that you can become pals with a
         | senator's son. There are other schools if pure academic
         | achievement is your primary interest. I don't think some of the
         | students discussing this topic realize why they want to go to
         | Harvard, which is partly because of the legacies. Of course,
         | this is a pretty cynical take, but I didn't really understand
         | the schools I was applying for at all when I was at that age.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | Harvard without Legacy Admissions will still retain the
           | Harvard brand.
           | 
           | For example, UCs don't offer a legacy bump, yet Berkeley and
           | UCLA still retain a major brand presence in the Tech and
           | Finance industry both within North America and Asia.
           | 
           | In fields such as Natural Sciences, Social Sciences, Law, and
           | Business Harvard does hire very strong faculty AND gives them
           | a significant amount of funding and autonomy to continue
           | their own research pursuits.
           | 
           | Also, in my own friend group and as someone who attended one
           | of these Ivies+Ivy Adjacent Programs, just getting into
           | either a T20 school overall or a T10 school in your field is
           | more than enough to gain the prestige cachet needed for your
           | field.
           | 
           | The alumni networks in these 20-30 public and private
           | universities are strong enough that you'd be able to do well
           | globally. While legacy does play a role in the undergrad
           | experience, it's not like CMU, UT Austin, UVA, UW, or UCLA
           | don't have students from elite backgrounds even though they
           | might not have the street cred of "HAVHAD".
        
           | vosper wrote:
           | > The point of Harvard is that you can become pals with a
           | senator's son
           | 
           | That's half the point. The other half is to say that you went
           | to Harvard.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | You can do this at relatively less selective Public Schools
             | as well. One of my friends who attended UIUC was roommates
             | with the son of the CEO of a Fortune 100 Tech Company, and
             | close friends with the son of the CTO of another unrelated
             | Tech Fortune 100.
             | 
             | Another one of my buddies at UCSF ended up rooming with the
             | daughter of owner of one of the major DNC SuperPACs.
             | 
             | Public schools absolutely have strong alumni networks as
             | well despite not necessarily having legacy admissions.
        
             | koheripbal wrote:
             | .... Which is important because it flags you as someone
             | connected to rich people
        
       | goodbyesf wrote:
       | If legacy admissions are banned, then harvard and yale admissions
       | office will develope an 'understanding' where each school takes
       | in the other's legacy candidates.
       | 
       | Don't forget that many of the heads of admissions scream
       | equality, diversity and fairness but want special treatment for
       | their own children.
        
       | scrubs wrote:
       | A question and point on resolving racism without giving up on
       | meritocracy:
       | 
       | - I tend to think scotus believes racism is/was real but the best
       | way to fix it is for congress to vote into law an actual remedy.
       | Instead congress whines then fund raises off it. That control
       | vacuum does not mean scotus has to fill the void. I'm pretty sure
       | this what Roberts thinks anyway.
       | 
       | - on remedy: based on a young adult's background mainly by
       | looking at parent's income and their educational attainment, and
       | school quality k-12, under served kids that appear to have
       | potential could be subsized to take a kind of finishing school
       | with the idea of getting them backfilled education wise so they
       | could take and pass MIT like AP exams in math, science, English.
       | It'd be like a really high end HS to get them current. Kids who
       | don't follow through are evicted, and are required to payback
       | costs. This way they can compete reasonably well for open seats
       | and colleges of their choice. We might call this the National
       | High School Program perhaps mainly online. Congress can create
       | and fund this. Seats are filled in time order of approved
       | applicant only.
       | 
       | - remedy includes reducing or eliminating grants to private
       | universities sitting on tons of money or have too many
       | administrative costs. US education is too damn expensive. There
       | has to be a way for the system to penalize stupid cost.
       | 
       | - a federal run super high school gives parents and kids a
       | choice: state education or fed. Or state then fed later to fix
       | shortcomings. This would also eliminate the fed/state/local
       | control quagmire since US education is locally controlled. The
       | fed could instead focus solely on its own school system letting
       | parents/kids choose.
       | 
       | - in summary: congress has to get off their butts. Scotus would
       | have to uphold congress' law. And if the national HS was
       | demanding, nobody would be focused on race, which is the way we
       | want it. It puts the focus on good kids who did good work which
       | is also the way we want it.
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-03 23:02 UTC)