[HN Gopher] First 'tooth regrowth' medicine moves toward clinica...
___________________________________________________________________
First 'tooth regrowth' medicine moves toward clinical trials in
Japan
Author : elorant
Score : 921 points
Date : 2023-07-02 17:33 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (mainichi.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (mainichi.jp)
| cwkoss wrote:
| I want to be able to regrow a new set of teeth every ~5-10 years.
| Why stop at 2?
|
| Could be funded by tooth fairy receivables.
| rilindo wrote:
| [flagged]
| jimlongton wrote:
| > A new UCL paper has revealed that the wide-spread belief that
| the British have poorer teeth than our American cousins is, in
| fact, a myth.
|
| > The research led by Richard Watt, Professor of Dental Public
| Health in the Department of Epidemiology and Public Health,
| found that the mean number of missing teeth a person has is
| significantly higher in the US.
|
| https://www.ucl.ac.uk/eastman/news/2015/dec/us-vs-uk-who-has...
| blcknight wrote:
| [flagged]
| rilindo wrote:
| Given the health care in the US, that isn't surprising.
| [deleted]
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I think the idea that people have in terrible teeth in the UK
| is a bit outdated, but did you look carefully at the study?
|
| The 'better teeth' you report is 7 missing teeth on average
| in the uk vs 7.3 in the US. Both of those numbers seem high
| to me: you'd need to have all wisdom teeth plus three more
| removed for example. It made me wonder whether that average
| was biased by old people[1] with many missing teeth[2], who I
| think aren't that relevant to the idea about teeth being bad
| in one country rather than another.
|
| For the 'oral health impacts' measure, which corresponds to a
| questionnaire, OHIP-14[3], with questions like 'have you been
| self-conscious because of your teeth, mouth or dentures?' The
| score for the UK is lower than the US here, though I guess
| the measure is less objective and you can imagine cultural
| factors would impact the answers (eg maybe people from one
| country would downplay things more, or if worse teeth are
| more socially acceptable in the country, people there may be
| less likely to be embarrassed about their teeth.
|
| I think the kind of 'bad teeth' more common in the U.K. is
| crookedness (eg overlapping incisors or over/underbite) and
| teeth being more yellow. The paper notes that they weren't
| able to measure things like that.
|
| My general impression is that bad teeth in the US (on someone
| who grew up there) are a pretty strong signal that someone
| grew up poor, and this is a little less the case for the UK.
|
| [1] the paper claims these are 'age-standardised' numbers. I
| don't really know what that means but I guess that it means
| the number is mostly meaningful for comparing the countries
| rather than what people in those countries are like. For ages
| 25-44, they report averages of 3.7(UK) vs 4.6, which still
| looks a bit high to me. There's about five times the rate of
| toothless mess in the US for that age group which made me
| think there might be some small population in the US with
| many missing teeth that isn't so large in the UK, but the
| paper found the same income-based inequality in number of
| missing teeth
|
| [2] The paper claims to have gotten similar results when
| excluding the toothless
|
| [3] Slade GD; Derivation and validation of a short-fortn oral
| health impact profile. Community Dentistry and Oral
| Epidemiology 1997; 25; 284-90.
| mejutoco wrote:
| I looked it up, because I was curious about the ranking per
| country, not only US vs UK.
|
| Uk is 4th best according to this ranking
|
| https://www.yongeeglintondental.com/2018/07/23/healthy-
| prima...
| xeromal wrote:
| Missing teeth != Poor teeth.
|
| Pretty sure the joke is just that british have tea-stained
| brown teeth.
|
| Also, pretty sure it's just a joke in the same realm that
| rednecks from appalachia carry a piece of hay in their mouth.
| [deleted]
| wpietri wrote:
| I am glad they did this work, but I don't think it gets at
| what's behind the joke about British teeth.
|
| For me, the exemplar is the Austin Powers jokes about his
| teeth. It's not that the average Brit has fewer teeth than
| the average American. It's that a person who American would
| expect, for reasons of class and style, to have an engineered
| smile (very white, very even teeth) instead had a perfectly
| natural one. Even the movie suggested that the stereotype was
| somewhat outdated. But to the extent we still have the
| stereotype, it's about upper- and upper-middle-class use of
| orthodontia and whitening. Plus the distinctive American
| emphasis on the big smile, which to a lot of non-Americans
| can seem mildly deranged.
| catiopatio wrote:
| I always assumed this was a comment on the level of dental
| care provided by the NHS.
|
| For example, they'll happily provide you a root canal without
| a crown - a crown costs significantly extra.
|
| I doubt many dentists in the US would be comfortable
| providing that standard of care.
| pessimizer wrote:
| I'm pretty sure it's now based on the observation that very
| wealthy and important people in Britain don't have giant
| blinding veneers.
|
| Americans think that the class terror that forces them to
| spend thousands or tens of thousands on their children's
| teeth (and their own) is universal, rather than a norm that
| we find ourselves locked into now. Americans with anything
| going on with their teeth look poor or disreputable, and it
| severely hurts your job chances.
|
| Rich British people are just like _" do you know who I
| am?"_
| jahnu wrote:
| https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/dentists/what-dental-
| service...
|
| PS300 seems not very significant if we are comparing the US
| to the UK in this discussion.
| catiopatio wrote:
| A PS300 optional surcharge to perform what US dentistry
| rightfully considers the baseline standard of care is
| going to result in a lot of people's teeth having subpar
| function and appearance.
| jahnu wrote:
| But they don't pay for almost anything routine in the UK.
| In the US my understanding is you are not typically
| getting any free dental care. PS300 is not a major
| expense for a typical person in the UK.
| catiopatio wrote:
| I didn't claim it was an unaffordable expense.
|
| I claimed that treating it as an opt-in extra, for
| additional charge -- instead of the baseline standard of
| care -- results in a lot fewer people receiving it, and
| thus, a lot more people with subpar dental function and
| appearance.
|
| In other words, to save money, the NHS provides a lower
| standard of care as its baseline. Hence the popular idea
| that British dentistry is subpar.
| throwaway3618 wrote:
| I haven't tried to push the subject too hard but NHS
| dentists will at least in some cases just say "you'll
| need a crown afterwards" and that's that.
|
| Also
|
| > If you need treatment from more than 1 dental band as
| part of your treatment plan, you will only be charged the
| cost of the highest band. You will not be charged for
| each individual treatment.
| timonoko wrote:
| In medieval times they used to rob teeth from healthy young
| subjects. It was possible to "implant" those teeth just by
| jamming them by force into gums. Success rate unknown.
|
| So you could grow teeth in-vitro from patient's own stemcells and
| then implant those. I would be safer and not much testing needed.
| jamal-kumar wrote:
| Medieval times?
|
| How about as recent as George Washington? [1]
|
| [1] https://www.mountvernon.org/george-
| washington/health/washing...
| maxloh wrote:
| Does our technology advanced enough to grow teeth from stem
| cells?
| dt3ft wrote:
| There seems to be more useful info here:
| https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-health/dental-
| visits/can-...
| timonoko wrote:
| Dedicated teeth farming is little difficult I reckon. But we
| can clone a whole body just for spare parts. I bet some rich
| bastard is already doing that.
| Mayzie wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film)
| reportgunner wrote:
| Reminds me of Walton Goggins' story[0] of how he lost his front
| teeth.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CxApTXyTxU
| borissk wrote:
| Interesting. Why do you think it's not being done?
| timonoko wrote:
| Dont know. Few years back there was even talk about growing
| new fingers by preventing the growth of scarring tissue. What
| ever happened to that project?
| fractallyte wrote:
| The tip of my finger was cut off a few months ago in an
| accident.
|
| Treatment consisted of a breathable dressing which sealed
| the fingertip around the stump, thereby prevented it from
| drying out and scarring.
|
| It was very smelly and messy for a few weeks, but it worked
| - my fingertip grew back.
|
| It's a bit deformed (because the emergency doctor gave me a
| 'manicure' before dressing the wound), but it's there.
|
| Lots of results on Google if you search for "fingertip
| regeneration". Otherwise, I can provide academic/medical
| references.
| raisedbyninjas wrote:
| I'd read that children could regrow fingertips. This
| article suggests that just having the base of the
| fingernail is what's needed.
| https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
| shots/2013/06/10/1903854...
| ecuaflo wrote:
| Longaker lab is at the forefront of anti-scarring from what
| I know with their verteporfin research around blocking
| engrailed 1 gene expression during wound healing to prevent
| fibrosing and encourage perfect wound healing. They've only
| done it on skin though, haven't seen anything about fingers
| or limbs
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| > Success rate unknown.
|
| Is there any known successful case?
| timonoko wrote:
| _In May of 1784, Washington paid several unnamed slaves 122
| shillings (PS6.10, equivalent to PS794 in 2021) for a total
| of nine teeth to be implanted by a French doctor._
|
| Unless you install into fresh socket, the success must have
| been because of bone-to-bone adhesion.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| Paid != success. For all we know it could have 0 success
| rate. We had lot of meaningless or harmful surgeries in the
| past. I want to know how well it worked in the cases it
| worked.
| penguin_booze wrote:
| Oh, good. Now, do 'hair'.
| pknomad wrote:
| People are making progress on that front too:
| https://news.uci.edu/2022/06/30/uci-led-team-discovers-signa...
| Croftengea wrote:
| This is the key sentence, IMHO:
|
| > Once confirmed to have no ill effects on the human body, it
| will be aimed at treating children aged 2 to 6 who exhibit
| anodontia.
|
| This greatly limits usefulness of the whole enterprise. The
| problem is that this condition is not likely to be found at that
| age, it's found later when the problem is evident to parents.
| What is actually needed is some treatment for teenagers or young
| adults.
| w4lker wrote:
| Wow, I 've never thought that I would see that in life
| issafram wrote:
| Cool we can regrow teeth, but hair regrowth is fucking impossible
| because God hates me.
| tjpnz wrote:
| Just get rid of it. You'll feel so much more confident.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| Actually I get bruises and scratches on my scalp when my head
| is clean shaven. With hair? Rarely if never. And as for
| confidence and looks, nothing beats with hair. So technically
| yeah that's a escape it would be better to have them back.
| And in my case the decline is actually due to local water
| quality and pollution (3rd world).
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| bot12345 wrote:
| This is a very interesting development in dental care. Looking
| forward to seeing the results of the clinical trials.
| uniformlyrandom wrote:
| > The tooth regrowth medicine is intended for people who lack a
| full set of adult teeth due to congenital factors.
|
| congenital = abnormal.
|
| Mean it only works if you never had teeth, not when you had yours
| removed.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| Please, I beg science ... anything like this.
|
| I do what I'm told to do. Yet as the years pass it's been
| cavities, root canals, extractions, crowns, and everything else.
|
| The worst part isn't even the procedure, it's the cost (in the
| U.S. at least!). Thousands and thousands of dollars any time they
| need to do anything. And that's _with_ dental insurance. They
| like to deny claims.
|
| Dental should be covered under medical but that's an entirely
| different story. For now, I hope science keeps working on this.
| troft wrote:
| [dead]
| jiggywiggy wrote:
| It's weird to me. We've had hundreds of thousands of years with
| no dentists and toothpaste and now I'm told only way to keep
| teeth healthy is to brush twice a day with chemicals and an
| electric tool.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| For hundreds of thousands of years people had bad teeth and
| died before they're 35.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| True, also ate a lot less sugar.
| pzo wrote:
| Why not take a longer holiday to Turkey or Thailand once a year
| and do all dental appointments ? Should be much cheaper even
| with a flight and accomodation. I know some of people from UK
| doing this and flying to Turkey for yearly dental check. Dental
| clinics very professional there and you have English speaking
| staff.
|
| If USA based maybe Mexico or Colombia also a good closer
| choice?
| ripper1138 wrote:
| Dental insurance is usually pretty decent in the US, probably
| not worth leaving the country unless it's significant work. I
| have no idea with OP is getting done that costs thousands of
| dollars. Certainly that's an outlier.
| ridgeguy wrote:
| Not so. Anecdata point: My wife and I dropped our Delta
| Dental insurance this year. We reviewed what we'd paid in
| premiums over the prior 5 years vs. the full cost of
| procedures we'd had done in that time. Full cost would have
| been ~40% of our premiums + residuals. In this aspect of
| life, we've decided to self-insure.
| argonaut wrote:
| Yeah, dental insurance is primarily a tool for companies
| to provide a tax free benefit to employees. It doesn't
| make much sense to buy dental insurance yourself, unless
| you're high risk (get lots of cavities, etc.)
| grepfru_it wrote:
| No way, I have to get an implant and I was just quoted $4k
| with insurance.
| ripper1138 wrote:
| An implant is certainly "significant work".
| throwaway290 wrote:
| Once a year trip sounds totally fine for significant work
| nanidin wrote:
| An implant involves multiple appointments over like 2-4
| months.
| clort wrote:
| Makes me wonder what the insurance company is paying, how
| much you pay them and if its even worth it.
|
| My dentist (in UK) charges PS2500 for an implant. I don't
| have insurance.
|
| (technically I do have insurance, since NHS dentistry
| exists which I pay for in my taxes. However I had an NHS
| dentist and when they got sold on to Bupa they would
| simply not do things which would be expensive for them,
| meaning after some years I had fillings falling out and
| broken teeth all over)
| flanaganse wrote:
| Without insurance you can often get reasonably priced
| dental care at dental universities if you have one local.
|
| At least for anything students can work on (fillings,
| extractions, etc). If you need a root canal, ortho, jaw
| surgery, or etc then I doubt it'll be a great option.
| throwawaaarrgh wrote:
| I strongly urge people to avoid regular dentists for
| serious work that there are specialists for. They don't
| have the tools or expertise, and often leave people with
| broken jaws and infections that lead to more surgeries.
| Pay the extra; you'll wish you did when your jaw is wired
| shut, or you have to pay again to re-do a root canal, or
| go to emergency due to infection.
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| I'm an outlier. An implant was around $7000 out of pocket,
| with insurance.
| nanidin wrote:
| I have had an implant and for me it was around $2.5k with
| insurance in the midwest.
| petesergeant wrote:
| You also have plenty of American-trained dentists, at least
| in Thailand, although I'm not sure they're any better than
| the locally trained ones.
| nanidin wrote:
| One of my front teeth got broken at a pool party in Thailand.
| I was able to get it fixed the next day with a walk-in
| appointment for $75. The fix lasted for something like 5
| years.
| mbrochh wrote:
| This is not normal. It is 100% your diet.
|
| Eat a carnivore diet and your tooth issues will go away. At
| least try to eat only real foods, never add any added sugar
| into anything and avoid all processed foods (treat rice and
| pasta as processed foods as well, they are not real foods!).
|
| There are plenty of books out there that show that for all
| indigenous tribes, as soon as they got into contact with
| western civilization and started eating a carb heavy diet (beer
| & grains), their teeth rotted away within one generation.
| nanidin wrote:
| Is the diet angle related to the contact of the food with the
| teeth, or is the related to something that happens after
| digestion?
|
| If it were only related to contact of food with teeth,
| wouldn't rinsing your mouth after eating achieve the same
| effect as any diet like "carnivore diet"?
| abecedarius wrote:
| I believe it's much more about nutrition, though there is a
| difference in oral microbiome too. Explanation at
| https://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-
| mellanbys-... (The author, Stephan Guyenet, is not a
| carnivore-diet proponent afaik.)
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Immediate contact and for quite a while until you brush
| again. Leftover sugars are turned to acid by mouth
| bacteria.
| argonaut wrote:
| The diet angle is just sugar and carbs.
| froddd wrote:
| Any examples of those books?
|
| And by "carnivore", do you mean specifically including meat?
| Or do you mean something completely different, like a 'varied
| & balanced' diet?
|
| I find it odd to list the biggest change in a move from a
| more tribal to a more westernised diet as being "beer &
| grains". I would have expected the increase in sugar and
| chemicals/preservatives to be the relevant factor.
| no_wizard wrote:
| The best dentist I ever had was the one we had at the Apple
| campus. He was paid by Apple and everything was covered by
| corporate, more or less (whatever the insurance didn't cover
| beyond copay was paid by Apple if I recall correctly).
|
| I saw them for awhile and we got friendly. He was a younger guy
| and told me that he was probably one of the few honest dentists
| in the area because his pay wasn't dependent on high dollar
| procedure to make enough to keep a practice open. Apparently,
| unlike medical insurance, dental insurance pays pittance for
| most things, so upselling procedures is how dentists really
| make money, usually.
|
| Best dentist I ever had. Rarely did I need more than regularly
| scheduled cleanings and when I did he always started with the
| least invasive options (I grind my teeth in my sleep and before
| I realized it and got a guard there were complications)
|
| I miss that guy. I've been suspicious of dentists ever since
| and look for signs.
| jiggywiggy wrote:
| I also grind me teeth. One dentist recommended me a guard.
| Just really don't like the idea of sleeping with plastics in
| my mouth 8 hours a day. What type do you have?
| geokon wrote:
| I had one dentist put some kind of lacquer type of thing on
| my molars (so that this material is ground down instead).
| But I've never been able to find another dentist that does
| it
|
| Maybe somebody knows what this procedure is called?
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| Fissure seals?
| joncrocks wrote:
| Fissure sealant was what I think I had as a kid. Teeth
| were cleaned + dried with air + sealant was `painted on`
| + cured with UV I think.
| darkclouds wrote:
| My dentist had a Harley Street branch, they were expensive
| even for a routine check up, but they were the best I ever
| had, honest, didnt try to push additional treatments on to
| you, could discuss different treatments and they would
| explain the pro's and con's of the different treatments. They
| knew I didnt mind spending money on my teeth and it was out
| of my pocket not insurance schemes, but they were perfectly
| frank and honest which was a rarity and much valued quality.
|
| There was no waiting around in waiting rooms, it was a top
| notch service in every way.
|
| My only concern which I found out recently, was the increased
| used of xrays to check the teeth can increase the incidence
| of thyroid cancer.
|
| Another dentist I knew who wrote their own software even said
| my dentist was expensive.
|
| You get what you pay for.
| 3rd3 wrote:
| > regularly scheduled cleanings
|
| Which appears to be a purely aesthetic procedure.
|
| https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD.
| ..
| cstejerean wrote:
| Over 2-3 years, which isn't insignificant, and does suggest
| cleanings can be done less frequently, but it isn't
| particularly long term.
|
| I'm curious if that still holds over say 5 years. And how
| does it intersect with other practices. For example are
| people who don't floss religiously more likely to benefit
| from more frequent cleanings, etc.
| devX3 wrote:
| From personal experience I need a regular cleaning every
| year and since I'm not cheaping out anymore on this as I
| did as student my teeth related health problems went to 0.
| I think it is useful if you aren't that disciplined with
| taking care of it yourself. I forget to floss every other
| time or simply forget to brush at times when I sit at a
| longer coding session and might eat during it but then
| forget to brush teeth afterwards. Procedure always removes
| plenty of scale/tartar.
| bondarchuk wrote:
| That paper only looks at the effects on gum health, not
| cavities.
| 3rd3 wrote:
| Dental calculus also seems unrelated to cavities. It may
| even have a (slight) protective effect.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4950958/
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9776022/
| bondarchuk wrote:
| The first one is about just 1 tooth they found in a pool
| of 1000 extracted teeth. The second one says "there was a
| high association between gingivitis and plaque status
| with calculus accumulation" in the abstract, thus
| contradicting your earlier comment.
| 3rd3 wrote:
| The one from my earlier comment is a meta study, so it
| bears more weight.
| partiallypro wrote:
| I am very suspicious of dentists; I recently went to one
| because an old filling fell out and suddenly, they wanted to
| do tons of new fillings. I had only 1 visible cavity, but the
| x-ray showed some decay on the sides of the teeth of others.
| I had the visible cavity filled and booked to do the rest,
| but I cancelled it. With the new filling I'm having mild
| discomfort that comes and goes, but I think that's mostly
| because I hate how fillings feel. I am still procrastinating
| on getting a second opinion. The thing is that fillings
| eventually will fail after 10-20 years, so they are not only
| getting that business up front they are setting up a future
| revenue stream. It's hard to know who to trust, even from
| highly rated dentists.
| tangjurine wrote:
| When I first got to the Bay area I saw three dentists, and
| gave them the same x-rays.
|
| The first recommended I get eight fillings (which is why I
| went to the others).
|
| The second recommended I get two fillings (which I did get).
|
| And then the third recommended I get none.
|
| Needless to say I'm now also suspicious of dentists.
| tlavoie wrote:
| In Canada, they're essentially running a business, and one
| which (decades ago) specifically avoided the socialized
| health system which we have for regular doctors and such
| now.
|
| I've got pretty good teeth, but am certainly wary of some
| of the recommendations I've had. Did have to have a molar
| out (hole all the way to sinus), no doubts there. The
| regular dentist said, "hey, you should get a bridge!" The
| specialist who did the removal and bone graft let me know
| that was the worst possible choice. Better to leave a gap,
| or get an implant if I want, but a bridge is caps on the
| adjacent teeth that will eventually wreck those teeth too.
| So him, I trust.
| moneywoes wrote:
| CBC marketplace had a great special going to different
| dentists.
|
| They found all had widely different recommendations on
| the number of fillings required.
| flakeoil wrote:
| Making a bridge is considered malpractice now. This is
| what my younger dentist told me. I had an older dentist
| in the past who recommended a bridge.
|
| Making a titanium implant or just leave it is the best
| option. Only if you are over 80 years or have some other
| issues (making it more risky to do the implant operation)
| should you go the bridge route instead of making an
| titanium implant.
|
| To make a bridge you have to destroy (grind down into
| cones) two teeth adjacent to the bad/missing tooth onto
| which they glue the bridge. Crazy. On top of that you
| will forever have issues cleaning below the bridge which
| probably also causes your other good teeth to decay as
| more food and bacterias are sticking around.
| dagurp wrote:
| https://www.rd.com/article/how-honest-are-dentists/
| roolah wrote:
| Similar story. Moved to Bay Area, coworker recommended
| dentist told me I need to pull all 3 wisdom teeth left and
| get a night guard. Quotes me >$3500.
|
| Funny that I went to the dentist in my home country just
| before I moved and they said all good. Went to another
| dentist (which I'm still with and absolutely love) and over
| past 4 years we haven't pulled a single wisdom tooth and I
| still don't have a night guard.
| flakeoil wrote:
| I have a bad experience with night guards and it seems to
| be something dentists like to prescribe unfortunately. I
| got one as I had pain in one tooth and it was due to
| grinding and closing my mouth hard in the nights.
|
| Once I started with the night guard I got even more pain
| and after a month or two my tooth cracked and had to be
| repaired.
|
| As there is even less space (as you have the plastic
| stuff between your teeth now) it seems you press even
| harder which damages the teeth even more. Maybe against
| light grinding movement it can help, but against pressing
| your teeth hard together at night it does definitely not
| help.
|
| The best advice I got was to remind yourself at night
| when going to bed (and during the night when you notice
| it) to open your mouth a little (still with the lips
| closed) so that the teeth do not touch. It's a habit
| thing. I also noticed I grinded/pressed my jaws together
| more if I went to bed late.
| dsego wrote:
| Maybe the pressing the tongue against the palate and
| practicing proper tongue posture (so called mewing) isn't
| without merit. The force of the tongue counteracts the
| jaw muscles.
| teekert wrote:
| And the piece has at the very beginning: _" The idea of
| growing new teeth is every dentist's dream. I've been
| working on this since I was a graduate student. ..."_
|
| I'm not sure how involved this new teeth growing process
| is, but I can imagine it's not going to suck as much
| value out of you as a dentist can. Perhaps this isn't
| even done at the dentist (I hope so actually.)
|
| I always felt like I was getting screwed by my dentist,
| but then I walked through a, what we'd here call a
| "volksbuurt", a neighborhood that isn't particularly
| rich. Saw a dentist, and it seemed more like a community
| place. I walked in, registered and have loved it ever
| since. They think along with me, tell me to get insured
| because something big is coming up next year and they can
| shift the current work to January (when the new insurance
| starts), they are very transparent about cost, explain
| why things are needed. I really appreciate that. They
| even told me that the pain I experience can go away
| without any major intervention if I really started to
| floss daily, it worked indeed.
|
| Similar stories exist for garages (the place where they
| fix your car).
| nvarsj wrote:
| Similar. I saw a dentist in SoCal when I was visiting my
| family (I live in the UK) and I was under some misguided
| impression dentistry was better in the US. Very fancy
| office, took colour X-rays, then told me I needed all 6 of
| my fillings redone and a mouth solution to protect my gums.
| Total amount around 3k.
|
| I decided just to go see my local UK dentist. Shabby
| office, black and white x-rays. They said all my fillings
| were perfectly fine and showed me on the X-ray what they
| look at. They also told me the gum wash (which cost $150)
| was unnecessary.
|
| That was 6 years ago and I haven't had any issues with my
| teeth.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Ugh I feel like I got so many fillings prematurely due to
| trusting a doctor when I was young and timid.
| argonaut wrote:
| There are plenty of honest dentists in the Bay Area (and
| America). If you're well informed, it's easy to tell based on
| a combination of Yelp reviews and what they recommend when
| you come in for an exam. Most of them only take higher paying
| PPO insurance, or don't take insurance at all (well, they're
| out of network).
| intelVISA wrote:
| > his pay wasn't dependent on high dollar procedure to make
| enough to keep a practice open
|
| > I miss that guy. I've been suspicious of dentists ever
| since and look for signs.
|
| Now you can imagine how the avg person sees the cloud
| spaghetti coming out of a trendy boutique - being informed
| their 'perfectly fine' BSD box and ZFS setup needs to become
| a latent chain of 900ms microservices.
|
| Some cases it is the play, but often it's RDD from new hires
| or grifters.
| quadrature wrote:
| The incentives in oral care actively work against the patient.
| Our current system focuses on treating the symptoms instead of
| the root cause.
|
| You should have the knowledge required to advocate for your own
| outcomes.
|
| I'm not affiliated with them, but I think that bristle health
| is a step towards that reality.
|
| They offer oral microbiome testing and suggest personalized
| treatments to fix issues like cavities.
| wingworks wrote:
| Allot of it is also education. I grew up thinking, if you get
| a cavity the dentist will fix it, no worries. But you're
| teeth can only be repaired so much, and every time it's more
| expensive.
|
| I never asked any questions or tried to understand why I got
| cavities (in part cos of the cost). It was just... I have bad
| teeth, it is what it is. But it's not. there is allot you can
| do, foods to avoid, drinks to avoid (beyond the obvious). But
| things are getting better, some dental hygienists are on
| YouTube now, who teach how to look after your teeth.
| quadrature wrote:
| Definitely, you can also add in foods and supplements to
| promote beneficial bacteria. But until recently finding
| objective measures of your interventions was hard.
| v4dok wrote:
| Can you suggests some names? Unbiased (or some kind of
| polyphony) information on dental is so scarse its crazy
| wingworks wrote:
| I came across Teeth Talk Girl a few months ago, allot of
| informative content, and seems pretty unbiased. There is
| also "Baseline Dental" and "Dr. Brett Langston" channels.
| Quality a bit mixed and somewhat promoting there place of
| work.
|
| But yeah, still pretty dry out there, but better then a
| few years ago. Probably more on tiktok... but that's
| tiktok.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| In Holland we (used to?) get these fluoride paste treatments
| when we're young. They reinforce the enamel and it works really
| well. I've had like 2 cavities and I'm in my late 40s. And I
| drink a ton of sodas.
|
| That paste used to make me really sick but wow it does work.
|
| Not sure if they still have this though because the neolibs
| have destroyed the state health system and replaced it with
| mandatory private insurance that doesn't include dental
| anymore.
| tacotacotaco wrote:
| It's called fluoride varnish. The ADA use to recommend it
| only for children but in the last decade they updated their
| guidelines to include all ages. My dentist applies it now but
| my insurance does not cover it.
| ukd1 wrote:
| At least at my place, whilst also not covered, it's a $10
| surcharge.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| It wasn't applied like varnish though, it was gel in trays
| that we had to bite on for 5 minutes. Yuck.
|
| It was indeed only for kids, the dentist said the enamel no
| longer absorbs it when the teeth are fully grown. But
| perhaps this has been disproven now. I'll ask my current
| dentist about it.
| tacotacotaco wrote:
| I completely forgot about those trays. Yuck!
| robbintt wrote:
| The US has this as well :)
| vibrio wrote:
| I know many in the US that fluoride treatments that are
| ridden with fillings. I think you have a tooth shape and oral
| microbiome, that is resistant to cavities, rather than the
| fluoride treatments. How can we know what the provided the
| benefit based on n=1?
|
| Also General Jack D Ripper has concerns about the impact to
| P.O.E. ;)
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Because it's not n=1. Most people from my generation have
| really strong teeth.
|
| It's something that really helped, my dentist joked about
| being put out of business :P My parents' generation have
| really bad teeth that started going bad in their teens
| already.
| flanaganse wrote:
| As a US kid in the 2000s my dentist would give some kind of
| foam fluroide treatment. Foam would be put into two trays and
| you'd have to keep them on your teeth for two minutes. I
| remember hating it because it made me nervous I'd swallow
| some.
|
| I still get fluoride treatments from my dentist but now it's
| something he paints on, perhaps the same as what you've
| described.
|
| Anyway, according to a dentist friend, whether you get
| cavities is also dependent on the natural groves in your
| teeth. Some people's genetics cause them to have more cavity
| prone teeth than others.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yes that's the stuff though for me it was gel in trays, not
| foam.
|
| I was worried too about swallowing it but it was also the
| smell of it that made me sick. It was very strong. I really
| hated it.
|
| And yeah I guess I'm not very prone to them, but it's very
| clear that the generations before me had much worse teeth
| than we do.
| kderbyma wrote:
| I hope this doesn't come across as poorly stated, but I would
| highly recommend looking into possible dietary causes. I don't
| mean you are eating like a slob, but rather you are eating
| something which you are not supposed to eat either because it
| is too processed for your body or it is an allergen. Tooth
| decay can be cause by the diet you are consuming and if you are
| not consuming the correct nutrients( bioavailability is based
| on your genetics and not just the source of food)
| wingworks wrote:
| To add to this, sugar/sweets aren't the only thing bad for
| your teeth. Other less obvious things like bread or pasta are
| terrible for the teeth. Basically the "simple carbohydrates"
| group of foods. Also acidity matters, try to keep it neutral
| like water/milk. (things like coffee or wine should be
| avoided).
|
| Brushing times can also help and always floss at least daily.
|
| If you're interested in learning more I would check out the
| teethtalkgirl YT channel. It's a great way to learn a heaps
| about teeth without paying $$$ at the dentist asking
| questions. (but you should still go to the dentist)
|
| Anyway, that's my 2c, best of luck, teeth are the worst.
| royarthur wrote:
| What are you told to do?
|
| To f*ck your oral health, you need carbohydrate + an acidic
| environment.
| Hnrobert42 wrote:
| If this is all at one dentist, you may want to get a second
| opinion. It is very rare, but some dentists do more work than
| is necessary.
| ripper1138 wrote:
| OP must have a disease or something. According to some brief
| research, $25B spent on out-of-pocket dental work in 2021,
| which averages out to like $70 per person. And I'd guess that
| a significant number of people don't spend a dime.
| anmukha wrote:
| It's not a science problem. The system just robes you. For
| example, to replace one tooth with implant you need about 700$
| in Belarus or about 1000$ in Poland. Ok, in these countries
| dentist has 1800$-3000$ netto. When I installed implant in
| Belarus, my dentist spent 30 minutes to remove tooth, make
| surgery to overgrow part of gum and install implant and then 20
| minutes (after 3 month) to install new tooth. Let's imagine
| than in US doctor is few time slower. That means he need 4
| hours for this. And let's imagine that ha want 100$ in hour.
| That still 400$ - nothing special. But I guess that in USA you
| will pay more then 3000$. As for materials and equipment, in US
| all this even chipper than in west Europe because all this is
| produced is US. And at the end you pay for unnecessary thinks
| like ad.
| ornel wrote:
| Do consider travelling to Mexico. There are many first rate
| dentists at a fraction of the cost in the US
| rjzzleep wrote:
| First I'll say that I agree with you, there have been various
| treatments that never seemed to have made it into clinical
| trial and one that did make it but never became a treatment.
| Some where laser causing dentine to regenerate, one I remember
| was a certain kind of sponge filling made with an Alzheimer
| related treatment that would actually regenerate as the filling
| itself turned into dentine over time.
|
| But what do you mean with do as your told? What do you use to
| clean your teeth? What toothbrush to do you use? What are the
| ingredients of your toothpaste?
|
| What is the average PH of your mouth? Do you have acid reflux
| often? Do you eat sweet foods or flour i.e. simple carbs often?
| Do you eat a lot of fruits or salads before sleep?
|
| I've had a long history of cavities until I actually started
| paying more detailed attention to what I eat, what tooth paste
| I use etc. None of that is stuff any of the dentists I went to
| ever told me. I panicked when a piece of my tooth broke off
| almost a decade ago.
|
| BTW there is a treatment before you have to do root canals, I
| forgot the name, and most dentists don't do them. There is also
| a chance that it doesn't work and I assume that that's the
| reason why dentists don't generally offer it. I forgot the name
| but you can surely find it by googling. For a lot of people
| myself included don't an artificial gum transplant for receded
| gums also massively reduces exposure to dental issues.
|
| There are certain calcium phosphote combinations like the
| Novamin thing that GSK bought and then forbade everyone else to
| use or Hydroxyapatite, which is sort of artificial dentine.
| zargon wrote:
| Pulp capping is probably what you're referring to about more
| conservative treatment before a root canal.
| free_energy_min wrote:
| What toothpaste do you use? Does it have Hydroxyapatite?
| rjzzleep wrote:
| I use the Biorepair night creme(it's actually
| Hydroxyapatite and Xylitol) and sometimes the sensodyne
| repair & protect(keep in mind that the German version does
| not include novamin)
|
| When my root was exposed I did apply clove oil and
| completely refrained from simple carbs for the treatment
| and after until it healed.
|
| EDIT: a lot of Japanese tooth pastes also have it by the
| way and there is no real guarantee that it works, but
| theoretically it's supposed to fill microabrasions
| temporarily.
| safety1st wrote:
| There's also the question of how much dental "care" is really
| that. I will just throw some random stuff out there.
|
| * It used to be more popular to remove wisdom teeth. Opinions
| seem to have changed on this over time, I've never had mine
| removed, in my 40s now and so far so good.
|
| * I had a small crack in one of my molars and saw a dentist who
| said a crown would be necessary. I was skeptical and got a
| second opinion. The second dentist immediately said "It's small
| and I don't think you need a crown for this" and did a filling
| instead. Eight years later, so far so good!
|
| * Even FLOSSING was removed from the U.S. Department of
| Health's recommendations several years ago because there is a
| lack of evidence that it's effective! (I still floss around a
| couple of teeth every day in places where food likes to get
| stuck.)
|
| To do a crown the dentist has to grind down your tooth into a
| stub and irrevocably destroys the enamel in the process. To me
| an unnecessary crown sounds like borderline malpractice. I
| wonder how many other unnecessary procedures dentists are doing
| for the $$$$.
| danielscrubs wrote:
| Flossing definitely works against bad breath. If you feel
| that you get bad breath at the end of the work day it might
| be a good enough reason for that alone.
|
| I do the whole shebang as a curtesy to others, and I hope
| they will return the favour.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| > more popular to remove wisdom teeth
|
| Even the pushy dentists have rarely recommended removal of
| wisdom teeth unless they are trouble. I mean if it's pushing
| inside the muscle area towards bones or screwing up things
| for other teeth you have to. If it's forming a cavity area
| (like in my case) you definitely should get rid of it.
|
| Wisdom tooth removal is not rite of passage. It's need based
| and often the needs are real and very much "needed".
|
| > Even FLOSSING was removed from the U.S. Department of
| Health's recommendations several years ago because there is a
| lack of evidence that it's effective
|
| This is bizarre because I can feel the change in my mouth
| everyday with and without flossing. I am not sure there is a
| need for some kind of empirical evidence here. Especially if
| there are not gigantic mountain pass like gaps between your
| teeth.
|
| Yeah the crown job recos are often con jobs. Whenever I have
| been advised a drastic dental job I visit a Govt or a
| charitable medical college dental hospital here (India) and
| get a consultation. I do not get "polite" or "sophisticated"
| service there :D but I get honest and expert to the point
| advice.
| safety1st wrote:
| I'm not suggesting that no one should floss. The
| opportunity cost is low. You have nothing to lose by doing
| it, other than a couple bucks spent on floss. It's similar
| to multivitamins, the evidence on the benefits of those is
| also low quality, but the most you have to lose is a couple
| of bucks.
|
| In theory if you think in an evidence-based way your
| positions on flossing and multivitamins should be about the
| same, which is interesting.
|
| What's really important though is that the profession of
| dentistry has not felt the need to fully study and
| establish the benefits of one of their most foundational
| recommendations.
|
| Every dentist tells you to floss yet they have not bothered
| to establish reliable evidentiary proof that it works. If
| they don't care about evidence when it comes to flossing,
| what other procedures are they pushing without solid
| evidence of benefits?
|
| The hot take way of saying this (and I do kind of believe
| this) is that dentistry as a medical science is in its
| infancy, and as a result, dentistry as a
| profession/business is _partially_ snake oil.
|
| All that said I have had one crown including a root canal
| done in my life, the need was clear and it was done well
| and professionally and I'm happy with it. So I'm not saying
| that everyone should ignore dentists but this imho is an
| important place in your life to consider getting second
| opinions and steer towards professionals who are less
| profit-driven when you can.
| strokirk wrote:
| Plenty of other professions have these kind of best-
| practise recommendations that are not based on quantative
| data, so it's likely something more universally human
| rather than a function of the profession's age.
| Qwertious wrote:
| > The opportunity cost is low. You have nothing to lose
| by doing it, other than a couple bucks spent on floss.
|
| I have ADHD. I hate flossing, and I'd put off flossing to
| the point where I wrecked my sleep cycle and tended to
| end up just not brushing my teeth before bed.
|
| Ever since I stopped flossing, I've basically always
| brushed my teeth and have kept my sleep cycle more
| successfully.
|
| Yes, I know this is potentially _very bad dentally_ , but
| frankly I'm sick of having a catastrophically unreliable
| sleep cycle due to my mental illness and I'm willing to
| accept half-assing it if it means it doesn't destroy my
| life.
|
| That said, I have no particular opinion on the
| evidentiary base of flossing - my dentist has always
| recommended I floss, and I believe his recommendation. I
| would floss if I could.
| mabcat wrote:
| My situation somewhat overlaps with yours. I ordered a
| "water flosser" from everyone's favourite ecommerce site,
| and use it daily in the shower.
|
| It seems to be doing something, and can't possibly be
| worse than my previous flossing regime which was: "twice
| a year the day before a dentist visit".
|
| I wasn't willing to shell out for the name-brand water
| flosser, other options do the same job at the same water
| pressure for 1/4 the cost.
|
| It took about a month to move up through the power
| settings. Start on the lowest and click it up when that
| starts to feel a bit tame.
|
| I've now been using this thing for 6 months, it's just
| about time to find out whether I get my bi-annual nagging
| about the importance of flossing. My personal opinion:
| Cochrane's probably right, flossing is most likely bunk,
| but I'm pleased to have found a way to do it that I can
| stand
| b1zguy wrote:
| Sorry, how does flossing impact?
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| Your first two points seem legit, but if you pay attention to
| the measurements they're taking it's pretty easy to notice
| that your periodontal pocket depths increase or decrease
| based on whether you've been flossing or not (mine do at
| least). And it's pretty obvious that deep pockets are a decay
| precursor.
| rdn wrote:
| Once I went to a new dentist in a new area to do a teeth
| cleaning. He told me I had 4 cavities that needed filling. I
| was skeptical so I went to another one the next week. He said
| 2 cavities. I went to two more that month to see what else
| they'd say: one said no cavities, the other said 6. That was
| 8 years ago, I still don't have any cavities.
| bestnameever wrote:
| I know my dentist sees cavities that he just lets be
| because they are not an issue.
|
| It seems a lot in dentistry of what does or does not need
| to be done is subjective.
| ransom1538 wrote:
| Exactly. IMHO, dentistry has been a scam for 100 years. Every
| 80 year old I know doesn't have teeth. Anytime you ask for
| another opinion they act like the last dentist was an alien.
| I think flossing is important, but when they tried to do a
| study, nothing worked because all the dentists are lying scam
| artists -- so if you floss or not is irrelevant.
| function_seven wrote:
| The lack of evidence for flossing astounds me.
|
| I know that when I don't floss, my gums will bleed
| sometimes during brushing and/or they'll get inflamed. When
| I _do_ floss regularly, absolutely no issue with bleeding
| or inflammation.
|
| It's so clear to me that I can't imagine what the
| difference is between my anecdata and whatever actual data
| is coming from these studies.
| wesapien wrote:
| In my observation, flossing does work . The toothbrush
| can't get to the crevices that a floss can. My gum
| bleeding only happens when I'm flossing too rough or when
| I'm starting to floss after a few days of skipping it.
| safety1st wrote:
| One of the issues in the now infamous meta analysis was
| that many of the studies analyzed found some benefit, but
| they were low quality studies.
|
| So this doesn't necessarily mean that flossing doesn't
| work. It may just mean that dentists are already making
| money hand over fist and don't care enough to do good
| studies and validate that.
|
| BTW what was specifically looked at was whether
| _unsupervised_ flossing works. So another possibility is
| that flossing properly works but a lot of people do it
| ineffectively.
|
| All things you would want a conscientious, science-based
| ADA to care about
| zzbn00 wrote:
| Also surprised, it seems to make such a big subjective
| difference. One tip I got from a busy dentist who did not
| want more business: smear a little toothpaste on the
| floss before using it, work through all the places where
| teeth contact. Gets flouride in places where it normally
| would not get to.
| Aerroon wrote:
| > _When I do floss regularly, absolutely no issue with
| bleeding or inflammation._
|
| Do they bleed during flossing though? I used to get
| bleeding gums after brushing teeth, but switching to a
| softer toothbrush stopped it. Flossing, at the start,
| does cause my gums to bleed though.
| stephen_g wrote:
| Yeah, that went away pretty quickly when I started
| flossing regularly really for the first time, a year or
| two ago (my dentist having strongly advised that I need
| to). I do feel like it has made a positive difference,
| but I have also cut back very significantly on sugary
| drinks over roughly the same period, having improved my
| diet a lot, so maybe that made more of a difference...
| cstejerean wrote:
| Flossing or brushing only causes bleeding for me when my
| gums aren't healthy. For example after getting a proper
| cleaning my gums won't bleed for weeks or months.
|
| If they start bleeding again it's a sign I've not been
| doing a good job staying on top of keeping them healthy.
| function_seven wrote:
| Only during the first 2-4 times (and lessening each day)
| after having not flossed for a while.
|
| After that, I never bleed during flossing. And I make
| sure to get it up between the gum and each tooth, so
| there's a decent (but appropriate) amount of floss/gum
| friction.
| alvarezbjm-hn wrote:
| For me, flossing causes bleeding during the first week.
| Afterwards, the bleeding stop and my sensitivity to
| temperature improves greatly. My halitosis goes away on
| most days, too.
|
| My dental hygienist knows when I have been flossing and
| when I haven't.
| wesapien wrote:
| The high priests of dental religion er.. science is
| currently holding a trial over evolutionary dentistry
|
| Dr Mike Mew, of 'Mewing', faces misconduct hearing - https:
| //www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/14/orthodontist...
| wesleyoneal wrote:
| I used to have all sorts of issues with my teeth, and ended up
| with 2 root canals, and crowns, and had 1 of them go bad. Ended
| up with an implanted tooth. Yikes.
|
| Learned later about how cavities work and figured out the best
| routine for my teeth - floss and then brush (Philips electric
| toothbrush) every morning. Brush and then fluoride rinse every
| night. I always floss/brush before breakfast, and wait at least
| 30 min after dinner to brush/fluoride rinse.
|
| I haven't even had a cavity in 5+years, and my dentist always
| says I don't even have any plaque to scrape off - "you have
| good dental hygiene, and I don't say that very often"
| kbutler wrote:
| Sounds like you're doing great! But why floss in the morning
| instead of at night to give the longest time without food
| particles between your teeth?
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| This is expected in the US, the kicker is that even in the
| comfortably socialist EU dentists generally aren't included in
| the state healthcare unless it becomes an emergency room issue.
|
| The dentist is in this regard a unique animal.
| s5300 wrote:
| [dead]
| gumby wrote:
| If you don't get dental insurance through work it's generally
| not worth it (premiums > typical expense).
|
| That doesn't sound necessarily bad -- insurance is for the
| extraordinary events anyway, right? But when my kid had his
| wisdom teeth out or I was hit by a car and needed a crown to
| hold a damaged tooth together, my regular health insurance
| covered it, not dental insurance.
| spdustin wrote:
| Also in the US, and also frustrated with the cost of dental
| care. I was poor growing up, so the solution to major dental
| issues was an emergency extraction. And I'm not exactly rolling
| in it now, and having to deal with several missing fillings,
| all uppers needing considerable work after an ill-informed
| "LVI" veneer experience ~20 years ago, and a decade old
| temporary implant that I could never afford to have finished
| with the permanent. And yes, I do my damnedest to take care of
| my teeth. Issues just keep piling up, and just one procedure
| for one crown--with dental insurance--would still be >$1k.
|
| It's depressing, honestly.
| olliej wrote:
| It's super rough in NZ as well.
|
| Dentistry (though not optional orthodontics like cosmetic
| braces) in NZ is free until you turn 18.
|
| The _day_ you turn 18, it becomes private care only, and it
| 's entirely out of pocket - just as you go off to university
| and have no money for 3+ years.
| midoridensha wrote:
| Unlike the Anglosphere countries apparently, here in Japan
| dental care is considered "medical" and an essential part
| of healthcare, and is covered by medical insurance just
| like any other medical problem. Cosmetic stuff of course is
| extra, but the essentials are covered no differently than
| any other procedure.
| olliej wrote:
| Health insurance in the US makes it super explicit:
| "health insurance" does not cover dentistry or anything
| vision related. Because being unable to eat or see is not
| a health issue?
| midoridensha wrote:
| It's worse than that. Of course, you don't actually
| "need" teeth to eat: you can just eat baby food all the
| time I suppose. But a lot of infections in people start
| in the mouth, and historically tooth infections were the
| cause of early death for countless people. There's a
| reason people needed bad teeth pulled in the days before
| modern dentistry.
|
| And yeah, vision checkups are pretty important to:
| regular checkups find problems inside your eyes that will
| cause blindness later.
|
| The US seems to do an absolutely horrible job of
| preventative healthcare. Here in Japan, everyone gets a
| free yearly health checkup that looks for all kinds of
| issues; it includes blood, urine, and stool testing, and
| also includes hearing and vision checks, abdominal
| ultrasounds, a chest x-ray, etc.
| chefandy wrote:
| Yeah-- the distinction strikes me as vestigial.
| rjzzleep wrote:
| In Germany it used to be that way a long time ago. Then
| it went into base treatment free(amalgam fillings) and
| rest paid. Having been in the backend of health policy in
| Germany I can tell you that German current health
| leadership has been pushing to move normal care in the
| same direction as dental care to make more money.
| wingworks wrote:
| Yep, we get such a good start, then it's all downhill. At
| 18 you're hardly a responsible adult.. And it's not exactly
| cheap out of pocket here either. (though maybe better then
| the US? maybe)
| amelius wrote:
| Can't we somehow transplant the gene from rodents that makes
| their teeth regrow during their entire lives?
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| Hopefully this ends up going somewhere. We've been hearing for
| decades how there's certain bacteria that nearly removes the
| requirement to brush your teeth regularly, but it never seems to
| reach the general public. Exciting times ahead if we can
| ultimately destroy the need for the dental care industry. In a
| few decades having to brush your teeth regularly will probably be
| regarded as an antiquated practice.
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| There would preaumably still be a need for brushing for hygiene
| reasons, as well as gum health, even if tooth decay was a
| solved problem.
| letitbeirie wrote:
| Yeah even if the bacterium magically took care of gum health,
| it would need to somehow be able to dissolve tartar (calcium
| phosphate) without dissolving teeth (also calcium phosphate).
| westurner wrote:
| "Anti-USAG-1 therapy for tooth regeneration through enhanced BMP"
| (2021) https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abf1798
|
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6855835701389665111...
| westurner wrote:
| From "Reactivating Dormant Cells in the Retina Brings New Hope
| for Vision Regeneration" (2023)
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35871917: direct neuronal
| reprogramming (for retinal growth), Tissue NanoTransfection,
| Muller glia
|
| "TNT" out of Ohio State:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tissue_nanotransfection ; direct
| (epithelial,) stroma reprogramming
|
| Regenerative medicine:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_medicine
|
| From https://www.ada.org/en/resources/research/health-policy-
| inst... :
|
| > _What share of U.S. children and adults have dental
| benefits?_
|
| > _Dental benefits coverage varies by age. For children ages
| 2-18, 51.3 percent have private dental benefits, 38.5 percent
| have dental benefits through Medicaid or the Children's Health
| Insurance Program (CHIP), and 10.3 percent do not have dental
| benefits. For adults ages 19-64, 59.0 percent have private
| dental benefits, 7.4 percent have dental benefits through
| Medicaid, and 33.6 percent do not have dental benefits. Source:
| Dental Benefits Coverage in the U.S._
|
| TIL about Dental lasers:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_laser
|
| What percentage of dentists offices have lasers in the United
| States?
| https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+dentist+o...
|
| FWIU, dental lasers cost from $4-40K per unit, per station in
| the office; and they may be tuned for specific applications or
| general purpose. There's a waveguide to guide the beam; and
| there are new waveguide methods for steering photon beams
| through opaque tissue (with e.g. dual beams).
|
| "Scientists Have Discovered a Drug [Tideglusib] That Fixes
| Cavities and Regrows Teeth" (2017) that's already FDA approved
| for Alzheimer's but there are yet no clinical trials of it as a
| cavity fill?? https://futurism.com/neoscope/scientists-have-
| discovered-thi...
|
| Tideglusib: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tideglusib
|
| Can teeth be grown in molds from e.g. stem cells, or
| nanotransfected tissue with/without a 3-d printed scaffold or
| [...]?
|
| Dental care probably has direct returns in labor productivity?
| bilekas wrote:
| I misunderstood this article. I read that yes, they can trigger
| new teeth to grow. For some reason I thought they nailed how to
| regrow tooth enamel for example. My thinking was, if you can grow
| a tooth, you can regrow the current. THAT is the dream. But this
| super amazing study and experiment isn't going to change the
| world of orthodonti.
|
| Brush your teeth and keep the floss handy!
| orcul wrote:
| Long overdue.
| myself248 wrote:
| On the other side of things, why don't we use little bits of
| botox to prevent wisdom teeth from growing in the first place?
| spartanatreyu wrote:
| Wisdom teeth aren't the problem, they're supposed to be there.
| Wisdom teeth getting compacted are a symptom of a larger
| problem.
|
| If a child is not fed enough tough foods, then they end up not
| using and developing their facial muscles correctly.
|
| If those muscles which should be guiding the jaw into it's
| correct position aren't being used correctly, they end up
| causing the jaw to not develop properly. Now you end up with a
| mouth-breathing child who has a reverse swallow, crowded teeth,
| and is going to need braces, a retainer, and possibly a CPAP
| machine.
| jvidalv wrote:
| Can you back this data up with any source?
|
| Afaik here in Spain is rather common to have your wisdom
| teeth pullet out (I have), and it's the first time I hear
| this theory.
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| It's based on this hypothesis that bone growth, including
| in the jaw, is determined by the exercise of soft tissues.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_matrix_hypothesis
| jurassicfoxy wrote:
| Maybe you just came up with a good idea for a PhD in dentistry.
| myself248 wrote:
| I'm already full-up on hobbies, jobs, and callings,
| thankyouverymuch!
| tgv wrote:
| Don't get your hopes up, and keep brushing your teeth: "The tooth
| regrowth medicine is intended for people who lack a full set of
| adult teeth due to congenital factors (anodontia)". There is a
| vague hope to develop it so that people who lose teeth can use it
| to regrow, but that seems to be another ball game.
| XorNot wrote:
| It does perhaps change the ball game though I would presume -
| if the goal is to grow a tooth which didn't develop, it changes
| the requirement to regrow a tooth to just regenerating whatever
| root structure you need to trigger that (which I would assume
| is a collection of specialized cells/nerves etc. which you
| could imagine maybe assembling from stem cells in a scaffold
| and implanting).
| troft wrote:
| [flagged]
| RajT88 wrote:
| Sharks in general don't need therapy.
|
| Their primary problem solving method is biting stuff. As long
| as those keep growing they can keep solving all of life's
| problems.
| swayvil wrote:
| I have a friend with notoothia. Only in one tooth tho. And ya,
| it's weird looking. She got an implant. One of those titanium
| screws. It works but the gum is weird and the tooth is
| missized.
|
| Would she switch it for a grown tooth given the option? I
| dunno.
| abwizz wrote:
| > There is a vague hope to develop it so that people who lose
| teeth can use it to regrow, but that seems to be another ball
| game.
|
| why does this seem to be another ball game?
| mnau wrote:
| Certain-not-to-be-named-due-to-spam-filter-medicament-on-V was
| intended for heart related chest pain.
|
| My wallet doesn't ask for who it was intended. It asks: Will it
| work and can I buy it?
| Y_Y wrote:
| You've just got to format it as an email address: vi@g.ra
| momirlan wrote:
| Once the technology is public, anyone can use it for whatever
| purpose. Research direction is not the same as commercial
| application.
| pengaru wrote:
| I get the impression that they're targeting the easy case first
| since stimulating tooth growth there is causing what was
| supposed to happen anyways, with less likelihood of conflict
| with the existing teeth.
|
| But the article makes it sound plausible that it'd work for
| normal adults too in that new tooth growth would occur. It's
| just unclear how/if they guide that growth to a specific area,
| or if it has to be wholesale replacement of the set of teeth
| like losing your baby teeth.
|
| Maybe what will happen is once you get to a certain point of
| dental misery you just get on the medicine blocking USAG-1 and
| have all the remaining teeth pulled, then wait for the new
| teeth to grow in...
| mcswell wrote:
| This is all hypothetical, of course, but: you don't have to
| lose all your baby teeth in order for your adult teeth to
| come in. Somehow an adult tooth coming in causes the baby
| tooth's root to dissolve (if that's the right word) and then
| pushes the remaining baby tooth out of the way. So you might
| not need to lose your adult teeth in order for the next-gen
| teeth to come in.
| im3w1l wrote:
| Some animals have continuosly growing teeth. Maybe with the
| right chemicals that could be encouraged in humans too.
| Loughla wrote:
| It seems like turning on a switch for continuously growing
| anything is a recipe for cancer. Modern medicine and what
| it accomplishes continues to absolutely astound me with
| what is possible.
| therein wrote:
| An unconditional one is but selectivity and reversibility
| is the key. Nothing makes that unachievable, just more
| complicated.
|
| Teeth growth is a good target for such experimentation.
| Given its relatively easily operable nature allowing
| convenient observation of progress and intervention if
| needed.
|
| We already can accelerate the regrowth of fingernails
| after losing one. This is the next easiest target if you
| ask me.
| pengaru wrote:
| A shorter path to market might be to grow replacements in
| a sacrificial host using harvested stem cells from the
| recipient. Transplanting into the socket once
| sufficiently developed, with some of the magic sauce
| topically applied at the interface to promote it all
| taking root and growing into its new home...
|
| It sounded like they were doing experiments with
| transplants as well in one of the papers I skimmed.
|
| I might actually prefer that approach if it had a high
| success rate, to replace a thoroughly trashed tooth.
| Seems preferable to exposing oneself to the new treatment
| for the entire duration of tooth development. Especially
| if all you need is one replacement...
| fendy3002 wrote:
| CMIIW, but when baby teeth is already grown (appear), the
| other adult set is actually kept hidden inside, not that it
| grow.
|
| I guess it won't be simply as stimulate teeth growth like
| nail.
| lelanthran wrote:
| > CMIIW, but when baby teeth is already grown (appear), the
| other adult set is actually kept hidden inside, not that it
| grow.
|
| Yup. See this skull of a child with the adult teeth ready
| to come out and push the baby teeth out of the way
| (warning, some people find the image very repulsive, even
| though it's basically a textbook picture of a skull):
|
| https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/9541/is-this-
| im...
| dotnet00 wrote:
| I think it comes off as more repulsive because we're not
| used to seeing those parts of the skull cut away, putting
| it in the uncanny valley. What helped me to not be as
| repulsed by it was realizing that those parts of the
| skull aren't meant to be "uncovered" to show the adult
| teeth in the first place.
| toyg wrote:
| The human body is so amazing... It evolved to ship ready-
| made replacement parts to ensure the product would
| complete its deployment (reaching puberty and reproducing
| for a decade or two).
| dghughes wrote:
| I have GERD and the only reason I found out was my dentist told
| me. It was because my teeth became so sensitive a room
| temperature banana was too cold. Lots of pain and still. It's
| from coughing due to acid reflux and acid splash up onto my
| teeth. It can also get into my lungs and over time damage them
| too by causing scarring.
| manmal wrote:
| Did you have no idea at all, as in, you never felt heartburn
| in the evening? I wonder if eating the last meal at eg 4PM
| wouldn't improve this considerably.
| withinboredom wrote:
| As someone else who has some serious GERD, no, you don't
| really notice. It's like boiling a frog (unless you get an
| acute version). You just suddenly realize: hey, I seem to
| be having heartburn all the time, I don't remember it being
| like this... maybe I should go to the doc? And then you're
| fine for a few days and put it off.
|
| And no, eating at different times won't magically make your
| sphincter to your stomach close any tighter.
| manmal wrote:
| > eating at different times won't magically make your
| sphincter to your stomach close any tighter
|
| Stomach acid is also produced as reaction to food intake
| and other signals. Less acid => less reflux?
|
| BTW probiotics have been found potentially effective by
| this systematic review:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7019778/
|
| This is probably not as simple as blaming the
| dysfunctional sphincter.
|
| IMO early time restricted feeding shouldn't be dismissed
| so quickly, it's potentially a fix for a number of
| systemic and gastric/enteric issues. The evidence is
| still weak but promising. The most important part here is
| ,,early" - intermittent fasting usually has an eating
| window in the afternoon and maybe right until bed time.
| According to some (weak) studies, moving the eating
| window to the morning and early afternoon has vastly
| different effects.
| ajolly wrote:
| There are exercises you can do that help with acid reflux
| - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9550520/
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9106553/
|
| Also alginate based products create a raft that block the
| acid from physically coming up.
|
| The early time restricted feeding stuff is very
| interesting, and new to me - but I did learn a lot about
| it reading this guys blog
| -https://caloriesproper.com/etrf-2022/
| szopa wrote:
| Thanks for sharing the exercises! What seems to have
| helped me was losing weight (not easy at all, but has
| many additional benefits). There are some additional
| exercises (look for "hiatal hernia exercises" on
| YouTube), which are very simple and sometimes can get you
| instant relief. It's surprising so few people know about
| them. The comments section under those videos is often
| full of messages along the lines of "I've been suffering
| for years, this video changed my life." It's really
| helpful to know you can do _something_ about it that does
| not involve taking PPIs every single day.
| ajolly wrote:
| One other hugely useful change has been drinking alkaline
| water - it immediately stops the burning in the back of
| my throat, and is useful even if your issues are pepsin
| based and not just acid reflux. It should be good for
| dental/esophageal health as well.
|
| I'll check out the hiatal hernia exercises, thanks!
|
| Other possible solutions: d-limone In one unpublished
| trial, subjects took one gram of d-limonene every other
| day for 20 days, on an empty stomach (that is, half an
| hour before eating or an hour afterward). A third of them
| experienced relief from their heartburn after a single
| capsule, and within two weeks 90 percent had relief.
| After a single course of treatment, relief lasted for up
| to six months.
|
| Licorice The natural solution for ulcers,
| deglycyrrhizinated licorice root (DGL), can also be an
| effective acid reflux treatment. The suggested dose of
| DGL is two tablets, chewed about 20 minutes before meals,
| three times a day, or it can be taken shortly before
| bedtime if you suffer mostly from nighttime acid reflux.
| Use only chewable DGL--it must be mixed with saliva in
| order to be effective.
|
| IQORO - It's like a pacifier put behind lips and pull.
|
| inspiratory muscle training
|
| Throat Band https://blog.fauquierent.net/2014/05/cricoid-
| pressure-may-mi... https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_do
| cs/reviews/DEN130046.p...
|
| and then the standard advice of inclining your bed /
| sleep on your left side.
| jaggederest wrote:
| > Less acid => less reflux?
|
| Weirdly, I've also heard from people in that situation
| that more acid => less reflux because the sphincter only
| closes in high-pH environments. So one of the things
| prescribed can be hydrochloric acid supplements. Some
| people swear by them.
| dkersten wrote:
| Symptoms of chronic acid reflux, laryngopharyngeal reflux
| and heartburn can also be caused by hypochlorhydria (low
| stomach acid), in which case taking hydrochloric acid
| will obviously also reduce the symptoms in that case.
| withinboredom wrote:
| Yep, chugging some lemon juice can be instant pain, but
| makes it go away in seconds. Apples also work amazingly.
| withinboredom wrote:
| > This is probably not as simple as blaming the
| dysfunctional sphincter.
|
| In my case, that is exactly what it is (a hernia). Other
| people may have different reasons for it.
| refulgentis wrote:
| You're 100% right, I got the doctor rush to prescribe
| treatment on this when I was 24. Was never enough
|
| Finally instilled some healthy habits by 32, namely no
| excessively large meals and no eating big meals ~3 hours
| before bed and it magically disappeared.
|
| I just had my first bout in a while yesterday - 2 smalls
| pizza is still 2 pizzas folks!
| dghughes wrote:
| No I mean I had heartburn sometimes but who hasn't but
| really I didn't think it was unusually bad. Of all my
| symptoms the one that should have stood out was coughing.
| Acid splashes up and gets into your airway and you cough.
| There may not even be any heartburn feeling. I had that for
| years even as a teenager. I thought I was smart because I
| figured out as a teen an antacid would make my weird cough
| go away but I had never heard of GERD what teen has? This
| was well before the Internet age.
|
| My issue is I can stop eating at 5pm or even 4pm but at
| night if I roll over on my stomach it pushes on it and I
| vomit up digest food. There's nothing like sitting bolt
| upright from that feeling as you aspirate into your lungs
| at 3am! Even lying on my side doesn't help I can feel acid
| pour into my throat.
|
| PPI meds like Prevacid make me feel bad just an all around
| blah feeling. they are not supposed to be taken long term
| and I've read ppi medications may damage kidneys. I think
| similar to high blood pressure medicine it has some effect
| on kidneys and can even cause coughing due to it.
|
| One weird quirk though is at my worst if I got sick with
| the flu my acid reflux went away.
|
| So for now watch my diet, eat somewhat sensibly (almost
| impossible since everything is a trigger), and try not to
| eat too late.
| xupybd wrote:
| My reflux seems to have gone now that I'm on CPAP for my
| Apnea. No idea if that would apply to anyone else but I still
| thought it was worth sharing.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Same here, the CPAP did wonders for treating apnea, and I
| also stopped snoring, to my fiancee's joy. About the
| reflux, the CPAP seems to have helped, although I already
| reduced it by a lot by anticipating dinner so that I would
| go to bed long after digestion was complete.
| xupybd wrote:
| My wife couldn't sleep through my snoring after we had
| our first child. Her hormone changes gave her trouble
| sleeping and the extra tiredness, from a baby, meant my
| snoring got worse. She demanded that I go to a doctor to
| sort it out. I thought there was nothing they could do.
| Turns out a CPAP stopped my snoring. It's amazing what an
| impact treating the apnea has had. My mind is clear, my
| memory is back and I can focus like I did in university.
| Truly life changing.
| 1letterunixname wrote:
| It makes sense because the oral cavity (no pun intended) is
| under positive pressure with CPAP. Not everyone has sleep
| apnea and not everyone can tolerate CPAP, so it's not a
| universal solution to GERD. My GERD would be solvable
| during hiatal hernia surgery.
| DropInIn wrote:
| I had bad undiagnosed allergies for years that made me vomit
| for hours a day every day (amount many other things).
|
| Cost the 4 rearmost teeth on the top side not including the
| wisdom teeth which were prob gonna need to go anyways.
|
| They got eaten away because doctors were negligent and now
| every time I move and get a new dentist they treat me like I
| treat my mouth like shit.... Nah, I just had most of them
| damaged by literally thousands of liters of stomach acid,
| bile, and black stuff which was apparently blood from
| somewhere they can't see scarring on now... thanks doc.
|
| Anyways I guess that my way of saying I sympathize.
| themitigating wrote:
| What were you allergic too?
| DropInIn wrote:
| Oh boy, "the list"... Here goes a simplified version:
|
| Beef chicken and pork (other meats untested, manual
| exposure testing required) ALL nightshades (potato's
| tomatoes peppers etc) the Entire Carrot/Celery/Parsley
| family (it's big) Lettuces (ridiculous, it's just water!)
| Rice Oats All berries All tree pollens including that
| contaminating food.... (This is the real kicker, as it
| hurt worst when ingested) And some uncommon stuff is
| honestly always forget even existed and then get freaked
| out when I realized I missed it on the list
|
| Thankfully they all went away, supposedly due to age
| related changes to body chemistry.
| DropInIn wrote:
| HN won't let me edit or delete the first time I replied
| and I don't like how its formatted. Though I just tested
| and am adding this sentence as an edit, strange site
| behavior... Sorry for repost folks but need to:
|
| Oh boy, "the list"... Here goes a simplified version:
|
| Beef chicken and pork (other meats untested, manual
| exposure testing required)
|
| ALL nightshades (potato's tomatoes peppers etc)
|
| the Entire Carrot/Celery/Parsley family (it's big)
|
| Lettuces (ridiculous, it's just water!)
|
| Rice (and related)
|
| Oats (and related)
|
| All berries
|
| All tree pollens including that contaminating food....
| (This is the real kicker, as it hurt worst when ingested)
|
| And some uncommon stuff is honestly always forget even
| existed and then get freaked out when I realized I missed
| it on the list
|
| Thankfully they all went away, supposedly due to age
| related changes to body chemistry.
| water-data-dude wrote:
| Bummer, I was hoping for shark teeth powers
| minibrusp163 wrote:
| [flagged]
| Tagbert wrote:
| This will give you the regrowth but the teeth will look like
| shark teeth. That might cause some odd looks and be careful
| not to bite your tongue. You'll only be able to do that once!
| :-)
| Electricniko wrote:
| Tongue replacement is already a thing, oddly enough.
| withinboredom wrote:
| Ha! I bit off my tongue from falling a pretty good
| height. My knee came up and hit my chin, forcibly closing
| my mouth on my screaming face.
|
| When I could finally move again (was paralyzed for a
| bit), and got to the hospital, they just told me to keep
| my mouth shut. Apparently, your tongue is just a muscle,
| so it will reattach itself.
|
| It was a shitty few weeks, but at least I didn't break
| any bones or land on my head.
| codethief wrote:
| > Apparently, your tongue is just a muscle, so it will
| reattach itself.
|
| Wait, what? Could you elaborate? How does that work?
| withinboredom wrote:
| I couldn't move my tongue for a few days (to let it
| reattach) then it was painful for a few more days, then
| some of it turned white and rotted off over a few weeks.
| But other than some gnarly teeth shaped scars, it works
| and functions like a normal tongue after 20 years.
|
| Carrying around a note explaining why I couldn't talk was
| also entertaining.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Ouch! I did something similar snowboarding in my early
| 20s. Landed a badly timed jump on to hard, flat snow and
| slammed my knee into my chin. Thankfully did not catch my
| tongue, but shattered several teeth!
|
| I remember wondering how I'd ended up with a mouthful of
| sand and grit. It wasn't sand.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| > Thankfully did not catch my tongue, but shattered
| several teeth!
|
| Not sure whats worse.
| ooterness wrote:
| I'm fine with this.
| [deleted]
| eikenberry wrote:
| Seems like it shouldn't be referred to as a "regrowth" medicine
| when you're talking about something that didn't grow in the
| first place.
| MagicMoonlight wrote:
| It's talking about growing a third set of teeth so it is
| regrowth
| [deleted]
| refulgentis wrote:
| That has a fascinating answer but requires R, no TL;DR from
| me :)
| sigstoat wrote:
| some newspaper translator had to figure out how to translate
| the novel(ish?) phrase Chi Sheng eYao . what do you want?
| it's not like this is FDA-approved marketing materials for
| something that's actually available.
| userbinator wrote:
| It's not exactly difficult: Chi - tooth
| Sheng e - grow Yao - medicine
|
| Doesn't say anything about "regrowth" though.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > for people who lack a full set of adult teeth due to
| congenital factors (anodontia)
|
| I've got this, and 1% of people have this. I'd have to imagine
| that most of them would have obliterated the spot where they
| could grow these hypothetical new teeth by getting implants,
| though. So, I'd even think that it's really a treatment for
| children.
|
| When I was a small child, it was already absolutely certain
| that I wasn't ever going to get my lateral incisors.
| MauroIksem wrote:
| [flagged]
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| So my son is like this. Missing a whole bunch of teeth,
| they'll never come in. Now the question is... wait for this?
| Or just get implants. He's already way past this 2-6 age
| range, too :-( Tough.
| jopsen wrote:
| What is the downside to implants?
|
| Just curious.
| dzdt wrote:
| This is at way to early a stage to plan around. It is just
| reaching human safety trials, which is the very earliest
| part of human trials looking solely for adverse effects.
| Even in the best possible scenario it would be many years
| still before this might be available as a treatment. Most
| drugs which reach this phase of development do not ever
| become available as a treatment.
| tivert wrote:
| > I'd have to imagine that most of them would have
| obliterated the spot where they could grow these hypothetical
| new teeth by getting implants
|
| Maybe not. Apparently implants are not common everywhere. I
| have a Chinese friend who recently got them in the US after
| an accident, he had some medical connections back home who
| said the procedure isn't very available in China.
| bch wrote:
| I've had "Maryland Bridges" in mine for years (apparently
| longer than the bridges are typically expected to last (?)),
| so there are some of us adults around...
|
| But sadly for me: Once confirmed to have no
| ill effects on the human body, it will be aimed at treating
| children aged 2 to 6 who exhibit anodontia.
| nntwozz wrote:
| Sounds exciting and less of a hassle than CRISPR-Cas9 genome
| editing shark DNA (sharks regrow teeth when needed). They lose at
| least 30.000 teeth over a lifetime...
| amelius wrote:
| From a Google search:
|
| > Unlike humans, all sharks are born with teeth. They grow in
| conveyor-belt rows, with the biggest teeth facing outwards.
| Over time, the smaller teeth in the back move up, replacing the
| front ones. Most sharks have between 5-15 rows, and the whale
| shark has a whopping 3,000 teeth in its mouth!
|
| Not sure if you'd want that!
| lockhouse wrote:
| Try our new plasmid Shark Bite by Ryan Industries...Regrow
| teeth whenever they're needed!
| tandr wrote:
| (In reaally small letters below)
|
| Consumer warning: might cause drowsiness, or anxiety. Teeth
| growth is guaranteed, but the location of newly grown teeth
| is not. Consult your doctor if you have high blood pressure,
| pregnant, or breastfeeding. Do not take with alcohol.
| 20after4 wrote:
| Extended version: low-contrast grey on white:
|
| Teeth growth is guaranteed, the location and the shape of
| newly grown teeth is not. Expect replacement teeth to be
| distinctly sharper than your existing molars. Use caution
| when chewing. Although rare, some patients experience
| changes in appetite that can be permanent. Avoid swimming
| and contact your doctor if you experience strong cravings
| for raw meat, or a noticeable increase in desire to bite
| people or pets.
| tandr wrote:
| "Do not swim if you suspect there could be even traces of
| blood in the water."?
| windex wrote:
| I've given up on science being able to do anything other than for
| mice or create a new subscription service for lifelong meds. I
| suppose actual cures aren't profitable. I am tired of being
| cynical but that's the cycle we have all been on.
| 20after4 wrote:
| Extreme cynicism is extremely warranted.
| ACV001 wrote:
| This is not only not dentist's dream, but this is their nightmare
| as well as others' like toothpaste producers.
| mock-possum wrote:
| I mean there are other good reasons to brush your teeth apart
| from just tooth decay. Your gums are important too - also if
| you're ever going to kiss anyone, they're probably going to
| prefer your mouth not smell and taste like a decaying corpse.
| Tade0 wrote:
| My experience is that this field is very, let's say, business-
| savvy, so it's safe to say they'll figure out how to profit off
| of this.
|
| Most dentists that I've been to have more business than they're
| able to serve, so I suppose their client base won't dry up too
| soon - especially that such procedures are bound to be
| expensive - at least initially.
|
| Then there's orthodontics, because who says that this new tooth
| will grow perfectly straight?
| andai wrote:
| Change is the state.
|
| Embrace Tooth Regrowth Serum Salesman.
| calo_star wrote:
| When can we have anything effective against tinnitus...
| bjarneh wrote:
| > _" The idea of growing new teeth is every dentist's dream"_
|
| Wouldn't that be every dentist's nightmare? Who gonna want that
| root canal or crown when they can just pull + regrow?
| pantulis wrote:
| Well, that "pull + regrow" would also be performed by a dentist
| anyway and I guess it would be more expensive than your usual
| canal & crown procedure.
| stan_kirdey wrote:
| ChatGPT and now this, damn it is good to be alive
| endisneigh wrote:
| It's not the same thing but you can currently buy novamin and
| nano hydroxyapatite based pastes which help to remineralize
| enamel (they do not regrown teeth completely).
|
| On the note of dental hygiene I recommend, in addition to the
| standard stuff:
|
| 1. Rising your mouth with water immediately after eating. If
| you're at a restaurant just drink some water, swish rigorously
| for 15 seconds and swallow.
|
| 2. Flossing regularly soon after eating. Couple with a water
| flosser if possible.
| eclipticplane wrote:
| Where can you buy said pastes or products in the USA?
| ajolly wrote:
| I like Dr jens super paste, it was one of the only ones I was
| able to find that has the 10% concentration that's been shown
| most effective in clinical trials. Apagard Royal does too but
| that's pricier
| laweijfmvo wrote:
| Nothing has worked for me so far but just discovered Dr
| Jens so I'm hopeful and glad to see it worked for you!
| soligern wrote:
| You can get the Indian version of sensodyne with novamin on
| Amazon. It's not particularly cheap though.
| ajolly wrote:
| You want the 10% concentration, studies show that's most
| effective.
| PixelForg wrote:
| > Couple with a water flosser if possible.
|
| Aren't they generally less effective than flossing with
| threads?
| endisneigh wrote:
| Nah basically the same
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8236551/
|
| I'd still use both as the abrasive action is likely to catch
| some things water cannot. And water able to reach areas more
| easily string cannot.
| Laaas wrote:
| Doesn't this also happen from just eating?
| SapporoChris wrote:
| Excellent question: I would also like to know the benefits of
| brushing without toothpaste vs with toothpaste.
|
| Irrelevant anecdote: I had cavities as a preteen but none
| after. My dental hygiene is non rigorous brushing at least
| once a day, more if a tooth begins to feel sensitive. Last
| dentist visit 20 years ago.
| argonaut wrote:
| Novamin is not really better than fluoride, from when I looked
| at the studies.
|
| Nano hydroxyapatite combined with fluoride has a little bit
| better evidence for it being better than fluoride alone.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Have you seen your enamel improve using those? I've used a
| Sensodyne one for a year with zero results and switched back.
| My dentist seemed unsurprised by those results, so the effect
| is probably miniscule in general if there's any at all.
| endisneigh wrote:
| Unless you bought the foreign one you didn't get novamin. Try
| again with David's with uses nano hydroxyapatite and can be
| bought in the USA
| moffkalast wrote:
| Well I'm in Europe, so I'm not sure if I can buy the same
| ones. It had novamin listed on the packaging ingredients so
| unless they're blatantly lying, it had it.
| endisneigh wrote:
| Heh, touche. The European one should have novamin. The
| effect isn't supposed to be drastic. In fact I stopped
| using novamin as well because the studies I read didn't
| show substantial difference vs fluoride toothpaste. I
| assume your dentist didn't notice much? I'd still give
| nano hydroxyapatite a try.
| [deleted]
| adastra22 wrote:
| Yes. Sensodyne is worthless in my experience, but brushing
| with a toothpaste I bought in Japan to restore enamel really
| worked. It had very immediate effects and my teeth kept the
| protective enamel even after I ran out.
| jacoblambda wrote:
| Yep that'll happen depending where you live.
|
| Sensodyne has a bioglass (sometimes called hydroxyapatite,
| NOVAMIN, or Biomin) which is what you are describing
| however it's excluded from the Sensodyne sold in the US.
| The reason why is a long story [1] but if you want "good"
| Sensodyne you have to import it from literally anywhere
| else or buy a no-flouride biomin version (made by Dr.
| Collins who decided to go through the FDA process) in the
| US. Both are luckily pretty easy to get on Amazon however
| there's a bit of a markup.
|
| 1. https://medium.com/@ravenstine/the-curious-history-of-
| novami...
| amelius wrote:
| Could you provide more information, like a brand name?
| adastra22 wrote:
| "APAGARD Premio" is what it says on the tube.
| Hydroxyapatite.
| amelius wrote:
| Thanks!
| ajolly wrote:
| Fyi apagard premio has a 5-6% concentration, you ideally
| want 10%. That's what's been shown to be most effective
| in clinical trials, Apagard Royal has 10% but you can
| find similar concentrations cheaper from other brands.
| Faaak wrote:
| There are various sensodyne pastes. The one with novamin (in
| Europe) is called "repair and protect
| jrockway wrote:
| For me, this kind of toothpaste was much worse for
| sensitivity than a high-fluoride toothpaste you can get
| prescribed by your dentist. (It's a prescription, but it's
| inexpensive.)
| jacoblambda wrote:
| The bioglass toothpastes (i.e. the ones that contain
| NOVAMIN or Biomin) are doing something different than high-
| flouride toothpastes.
|
| The biolgass ones aren't really "restoring enamel" but they
| "refill" (remineralise) the enamel with all the minerals
| that slowly leach out before the enamel actually wears
| away.
|
| The flouride toothpastes act by hardening the structures
| those other minerals make up which increases the resistance
| of your teeth.
|
| They both do different things but they work well together.
| In the US you won't find them both in the same toothpaste
| (only Biomin C/without flouride is FDA approved) but
| outside the US you can find Sensodyne with NOVAMIN and
| flouride as well as Biomin F (with flouride).
|
| So depending where you live, you might want to give them
| another shot but making sure you use both bioglass and
| flouride (I personally do a dot on my toothbrush of both
| Dr. Collins Biomin Restore and Colgate PreviDent 1.1% NaF
| 5% KNO3). At least for me it has worked a lot better than
| just doing one or the other.
| patientpatient wrote:
| I have thought about this in regards to combining
| stannous fluoride with hydroxapatite due to the synergy
| between fluoride and hydroxyapatite (Although I believe
| most studies which have found this synergy used sodium
| fluoride, not the traditionally superior stannous
| fluoride, so not sure if the synergy will uphold). I
| think there are only a few toothpastes on the market with
| a proper concentration of both sodium fluoride and
| hydroxyapatite, have not seen any mouth rinses with both.
| The problem with mixing mouthrinses or toothpastes is
| that you will inevitably reduce the concentrations of
| both active ingredients, in absolute quantity they will
| be the same, but I wonder if they will become overwhelmed
| and nullified by the relatively larger quantity of non
| active ingredients. IIRC hydroxyapatite in toothpaste is
| rated 10% max in EU, and it's also most effective at that
| amount, for mouth rinses it is 0.465 %. It would actually
| be easier to find some high fluoride toothpaste that
| would suffer less from dilution, I've heard
| recommendations of around 1500ppm, so if I am not
| mistaken getting a 3000ppm toothpaste would allow for ok
| dilution if only you had another with 20% hydroxyapatite
| in a 1:1 ratio. Overall the solution I am settling on is
| fluoride rinses when waking up and going to bed, and
| hydroxyapatite toothpaste twice a day, no clue about the
| synergy there, but seems reasonable as most
| hydroxyapatite pastes are filling the no fluoride market
| niche, which comes with the nice benefit that they aren't
| filled with a bunch of other trash inactive ingredients,
| meanwhile fluoride mouth rinse less affected by such
| things compared to fluoride toothpastes.
| ajolly wrote:
| I found Dr jens super paste with both Floride and 10%
| nanohydroxypatite, and xylitol but not stannous fluoride.
|
| You can't get high PPM fluoride without getting a
| prescription unfortunately.
| wingworks wrote:
| Be carful using high PPM fluoride. Too much fluoride can
| cause white spots to appear on your teeth. (I believe the
| dentist can clear the spots, but don't quote me on that)
| jrockway wrote:
| Ah, just mix 'em on the brush? Good idea. I will try
| that.
| ajolly wrote:
| For sensitivity specifically, check out one that has
| arginine in it, it blocks the dentin tubules.
|
| https://www.colgateprofessional.com/dentist-
| resources/caries...
| 01100011 wrote:
| They've worked for me several times over the years when I had
| sensitivity issues. Takes a month or so to notice and you
| should be careful not to drink water for a while after you
| use them.
| wredue wrote:
| You're not supposed to drink water or use mouth wash for a
| while after using fluoride toothpaste either.
| mdorazio wrote:
| I'll offer another point in support of your experience. I
| purchased the non-US Sensodyne, verified it had Novamin, used
| the entire tube as directed with no water drinking for at
| least half an hour afterward, and saw zero results.
| vinni2 wrote:
| > The idea of growing new teeth is every dentist's dream.
|
| Reall? Dentists prefer rotten teeth which takes a lot of money to
| fix.
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| If this can effectively regrow replacement teeth it seems that
| the dentist will want more than anything to suppress or somehow
| monopolize the technology in order to maintain their role as
| "fixers of teeth".
|
| Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before any doctor (or
| layman) will be able to pull damaged teeth and then easily regrow
| them, avoiding the endless thousands that would be otherwise
| charged for dental repairs.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| >Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before any doctor (or
| layman) will be able to pull damaged teeth and then easily
| regrow them
|
| I'd sure like to know that the person pulling my tooth knows
| how to evaluate it with an x-ray to see if it really needs to
| be pulled (and to see if the bone structure beneath it is
| healthy enough to regrow a tooth), and is trained to administer
| appropriate dental painkillers. If I asked my primary care
| physician to do it, I'd expect him to refer me to a dentist.
| calderwoodra wrote:
| I agree - even though these things are generally really easy
| to do (second year dental students successfully do all of
| this under supervision), the reason a dentist is needed is
| for when something goes wrong.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| At least in my area, teeth removal is at least 10x cheaper
| than root canal. I don't think GP meant there will be 0
| dentists, it would be just that lot of preventative care and
| tooth repair work will be gone, which I were to guess will
| reduce dentists quantity and quality requirement
| significantly.
| 20after4 wrote:
| Yeah I never hold out any hope for new miracle medical or
| dental treatments because there are far more profits to be made
| from treating symptoms.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Nearly all teeth problems start as diet problems.
|
| Have you ever seen a wild animal with bad teeth? Darwin makes
| sure that nearly all wild animals have perfect teeth.
|
| Humans would too if we ate our natural diet of mostly fruit and
| some meat.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| I wonder how teeth regrowth would work? Our adult teeth don't
| "push out" like it seems, but our body "grows out and around" the
| adult teeth formed from early age (maybe even birth? I'm no
| expert). You can look up pictures of baby skulls where the adult
| teeth are visible deep in the bone; a baby's adult teeth are
| formed already, and located in the bone around the lower nose
| area, some almost on the side of the nose; the baby will grow
| into them.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deciduous_teeth
| taurusnoises wrote:
| Thank you for ruining my mind with this imagery.
| hackernewds wrote:
| I got a strong trypophobia shiver from seeing that skull
| image. (I know it's an objective medical affinity)
| firecall wrote:
| It's weird isn't it!
|
| The reverse of how we think it works from external
| observation alone.
|
| It's totally normal to think they grow like nails, but only
| twice.
| NetBeck wrote:
| From what I found on teeth development:
|
| >The first stage begins in the fetus at about 6 weeks of age.
| This is when the basic substance of the tooth forms.
|
| >Next, the hard tissue that surrounds the teeth is formed,
| around 3 to 4 months of gestation.[0]
|
| [0] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-
| preventi...
| adastra22 wrote:
| The tooth forms at some point.
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