[HN Gopher] FTC reportedly plans major antitrust lawsuit against...
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       FTC reportedly plans major antitrust lawsuit against Amazon
        
       Author : mikece
       Score  : 154 points
       Date   : 2023-06-29 15:05 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nypost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nypost.com)
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | Did the USA ever even get AMZN paying their income tax, or is
       | AMZN still stowing trillions offshore? Or am I confusing AAPL
       | with AMZN? Hell they're probably both doing it.
        
       | Seattle3503 wrote:
       | I hope they go after KDP (Kindle) exclusivity next. Authors put
       | their content on Kindle Unlimited, then have to live with Amazon
       | eating into their profit share. Amazon also has no problems
       | rolling over entire subgenres with algorithmic tweaks, destroying
       | them.
        
       | moose_man wrote:
       | Technopolies are the blood sucking vampire squids of the modern
       | economy.
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | A less well known area of concern with Amazon is the way it is
       | now purchasing for its own business. It is actively cutting out
       | local distributors in favour of direct deals with manufacturers.
       | This is really squeezing those businesses.
       | 
       | Edit: this seems particularly monopolistic because it is using
       | its own global logistics to undermine the supply chain to other
       | retailers.
        
         | throwaway9274 wrote:
         | ...Why do we want local distributors? Open to changing my mind,
         | but that sounds more like actual efficiency gain from vertical
         | integration.
        
           | jimnotgym wrote:
           | Because other retailers need the local distributors. If you
           | knock them out of the market there is no local stockholder
           | and you need to buy directly from the manufacturer (in a
           | third country) yourself. A smaller company probably can't
           | afford to buy in those kind of quantities.
        
       | givemeethekeys wrote:
       | If there isn't a law that bans marketplaces from competing
       | against the vendors that operate on that marketplace, then there
       | should be one.
        
         | peanuty1 wrote:
         | Why should that be banned when it benefits consumers?
        
           | givemeethekeys wrote:
           | Marketplaces serve to benefit both consumers and producers.
           | 
           | How would one prove that the consumer benefits? The in-house
           | brand will immediately be featured more on search results
           | than the vendor brand.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | likpok wrote:
       | A lot of the beef with Amazon seems to be "welcome to retail". I
       | don't think Walmart even has third-party logistics for its stores
       | -- or if it does it's of the "hire contractors and squeeze them
       | hard" variety.
       | 
       | Personally I've found the customer experience of non-FBA
       | merchants on amazon is often pretty bad: long shipping times and
       | weird return policies. This gets at a sort of core problem with
       | this: where is the line between anticompetitive behavior and just
       | "making good products". I was very happy when google did it's
       | hotels thing, the hotel aggregators are by-and-large unpleasant.
       | And as much as there was wailing and gnashing of teeth here about
       | amp, when I was doing a mobile search I would preferentially
       | click amp sites -- they tended to work much better.
       | 
       | Of course all of this depends on what specifically the FTC is
       | arguing, and we won't see that until they actually file.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | Walmart has been working on their logistics. I haven't quite
         | figured it out yet - most things in store they will just
         | deliver from the store, ask for tip, etc. Some things are only
         | available for 'shipping', but that shipping is often same day
         | delivery, and it's apparent someone just brought it from the
         | store. And some things are 1 day shipping, where it looks like
         | they're moving items from a WM a couple hours away to your
         | local store, then delivered as described above. In the latter
         | two, tips are not even asked for.
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | Amazon can have pro consumer policies (free shipping & returns.
         | Easy return process) without predatory practices though. It
         | would be _silly_ for the FTC to argue that good consumer
         | experience is anti-trust behavior.
         | 
         | What they could argue is about the myriad of ways that Amazon
         | uses its market power to put others out of business or force
         | them to sell (diapers.com comes to mind on this[0]).
         | 
         | [0]: https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/amazon-book-how-jeff-
         | be...
        
         | mywittyname wrote:
         | Amazon's retail arm isn't the grounds of anti-trust action.
         | 
         | Their ownership of AWS, Twitch, MGM, Gaming studios, windfarms,
         | lenders are problems. If they want to be an retail giant,
         | that's fine, but they shouldn't be producing and selling games
         | & movies as well. They need to pick a lane and spin off
         | unrelated entities that only exist because of Amazon's
         | dominance in retail.
         | 
         | Their expansion into all of these market segments make sense in
         | isolation. Amazon builds a better service internally, then
         | begins to offer it for sale to others. But at some point,
         | they've crossed over into abusing their monopoly in one area to
         | expand into another.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | i.e. break it into IT infrastructure, logistics, marketplace,
           | and manufacturing. I'd also break out payments. Amazon can
           | stay just as it is, but it needs to be multiple companies
           | negotiating the best deals with each other.
        
           | likpok wrote:
           | A big complaint I've seen in the past is AmazonBasics, where
           | amazon copies successful products and sells them for slightly
           | cheaper. This is identical to brands like Great Value
           | (walmart), Up&Up (target), Nice (walgreens) and Safeway
           | Select.
           | 
           | Similarly, I have seen a lot of complaints that amazon
           | charges for ad space in the search, and you therefore need to
           | pay to get out of page two. This, again, is widely practiced
           | in retail. The cereal aisle doesn't look like it does because
           | the store manager is making it up, general mills and post
           | rent the space and decide how to arrange their sections. New
           | retail products need to explicitly or implicitly pay for
           | placement: either with cash or with free / discounted
           | product.
        
       | jroseattle wrote:
       | Has the FTC outlined what Amazon is actually doing in "rewarding"
       | or "penalizing" 3p merchants? I see a reference to Amazon's
       | "algorithm". Hazarding a guess, it would have to be either
       | category listings or search results? Is there something else?
       | 
       | If so, this is some weak-sauce when it comes to anti-competitive
       | behavior.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Competing with Amazon Basics products developed in response to
         | third party sales data. Anointing certain sellers as "Amazon's
         | Choice".
        
         | brigade wrote:
         | Probably search results showing items with prime shipping
         | before items without it.
         | 
         | Which... as a consumer is exactly what I want.
        
       | BlakeSimpson wrote:
       | I feel like they are up against a new lawsuit daily. First all
       | the class actions regarding fake prime sales and hard to cancel
       | subscriptions, now this.
       | 
       | Although this one I believe is more of an attempted power play by
       | the FTC, the others not so much.
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | I'm actually not convinced this is going to go very well. The FTC
       | for the last few years has talked a big game, and hired people
       | who have talked a big game; but the actual lawsuits have been
       | pretty mediocre and occasionally even poorly thought through. An
       | example lately is their battle with Microsoft to block the
       | ActiVision acquisition which, the general consensus of observers
       | seems to be, isn't going very well and the hope of the FTC
       | getting their injunction is dwindling. Another example would be
       | the FTC's recent failure to prevent Facebook's acquisition of
       | Within.
        
         | majormajor wrote:
         | The FTC shifted under Khan from a posture of "don't bring a
         | case if it's not bulletproof" to one of "be willing to litigate
         | even on things we might lose" to be less of a pushover. See
         | discussion and quotes here:
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/technology/meta-vr-antitr...
         | 
         | I think this is probably wise even if they don't win much:
         | 
         | 1) it'll set the boundaries of how courts interpret the current
         | laws, which will inform if there are unpopular holes that could
         | become part of political platforms going forward
         | 
         | 2) it'll add that much uncertainty and "cost of doing business"
         | legal expense to companies playing fast and loose in other
         | novel ways because they've known they're unlikely to get
         | challenged
        
           | 8note wrote:
           | 3) it'll show lawmakers where the laws are good and where
           | they need changes
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | Are you actually following the MS/Activision testimony? They've
         | been getting absolutely crucified, there are multiple examples
         | of blatantly illegal emails and discussions of anti-competitive
         | behavior being introduced on the stand.
         | 
         | The only real question right now is if the judge whose son
         | quite literally works for Microsoft (!!) will decide that laws
         | don't matter, which has been the main issue with antitrust
         | enforcement in the recent past.
        
           | granzymes wrote:
           | Her son working for another Microsoft division isn't an issue
           | and notably neither the FTC nor private plaintiffs whose case
           | the judge previously dismissed even asked her to recuse.
        
       | capital_guy wrote:
       | I am amazed to see people defending AMZN in these threads. They
       | are so obviously monopolistic with such a plethora of problems
       | with the way the treat consumers, workers, businesses, and the
       | planet. More power to the FTC -- just wish they had taken these
       | actions sooner.
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | I don't think I'm defending Amazon so much as noting that
         | Amazon does not have a monopoly on retail or even e-commerce.
         | 
         | I don't think issues should be picking sides so much as seeking
         | the truth.
         | 
         | Amazon had 38% of online retail market share [0] and only 9% of
         | total retail market share [1]. So I think it's going to be hard
         | to show antitrust violations without some price collusion.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/274255/market-share-
         | of-t... [1] https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2022/amazon-and-
         | walmart-m...
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > Amazon had 38% of online retail market share
           | 
           | Sure, but "online retail" is pretty clearly an overly broad
           | market including separate segments between which there is no
           | substitution effect, and there are a whole lot of segments
           | within that where Amazon has majority (>50%) market share
           | (safety & security, communications, home audio, portable
           | audio, etc.)
           | 
           | Not that this is about retail, per se, anyway, except maybe
           | in leveraging market position in retail as an aspect of the
           | anticompetitive behavior regarding sellers planning on using
           | their fulfillment services.
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | Where are you getting that data?
        
           | Sakos wrote:
           | You don't need a monopoly to engage in anti-competitive
           | behavior. Ffs. Antitrust isn't necessarily about monopolies.
           | How is that so hard to understand?
        
             | aaronblohowiak wrote:
             | The OP of the thread you are replying in claimed "so
             | obviously monopolistic"...
        
           | subsubzero wrote:
           | Agree, (these are not the droids you are looking for). Look
           | to Google, Meta, and the telecoms as they are the most
           | eggregious and abuse their market position blatantly.
        
           | EA-3167 wrote:
           | This antitrust action isn't about their retail sector
           | though... I can only assume the many people acting without
           | that understanding here didn't read the article.
        
           | lisasays wrote:
           | Anitrust actions do not require the presence of a monopoly.
           | 
           | Rather, they addresses situations where companies
           | unreasonably exert power to lessen competition.
           | 
           | The idea is to prevent monopolies from forming in the first
           | place.
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | > unreasonably exert power to lessen competition.
             | 
             | The unreasonable part is where the monopoly power comes in.
             | 
             | Companies lessening competition happens all the time, it's
             | the monopoly aspect that triggers antitrust.
        
               | ThatPlayer wrote:
               | Monopoly power does not require a literal monopoly.
               | Straight from the FTC: https://www.ftc.gov/advice-
               | guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
               | 
               | > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before
               | applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used
               | as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable
               | market power
               | 
               | I'd say Amazon has "significant and durable market power"
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | What does that mean? Does Microsoft have that with
               | Windows? Intel with x86? Apple with phones? What is the
               | scale of those words?
        
               | ThatPlayer wrote:
               | It means it's up to the courts to decide on a case by
               | case basis.
        
               | grimgoldgo wrote:
               | There are three primary antitrust laws, only one of them
               | focuses on monopoly power in the way you describe. The
               | Clayton and FTC acts are broader.
        
             | 0xParlay wrote:
             | Can they save me from Comcast first? I'd be curious how
             | that backlog refinement meeting goes.
             | 
             | > See that filter that orders priority by realized value?
             | Remove it and order by campaign contributions
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > Can they save me from Comcast first?
               | 
               | Talk to the FCC, probably.
        
               | tomlin wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | willcipriano wrote:
               | Translated from non incriminating corporate speak to
               | plain English:
               | 
               | "We have to been seen doing something, the election cycle
               | is fast approaching. What if we go after Comcast?"
               | 
               | "They gave a important senators son a no show job so they
               | are off limits for the time being"
               | 
               | "Amazon?"
               | 
               | "Let me check, actually they haven't done much for us
               | lately, let's shake them down, if they give my cousin a
               | few million for consulting we give them a small fine, if
               | not we give them the law"
        
           | atdrummond wrote:
           | Online retail includes airlines websites, for example (Delta
           | recently shared they were a Top 5 US online retailer in their
           | investor presentations).
           | 
           | I am sure that for CPG, Amazon's share is significantly
           | higher.
        
           | api wrote:
           | Amazon has a near-monopoly at this point on _online_ retail
           | in the USA, mostly owing to their logistics network and
           | ability to deliver so easily combined with the one stop shop
           | advantage.
        
             | benced wrote:
             | "Amazon had 38% of online retail market share"
        
             | bitterspeak wrote:
             | Being good at something does not make you a monopoly. They
             | are not actively blocking other online retail platforms.
             | This is not a statement to defend Amazon but the fact that
             | I prefer Amazon for its features (like same day delivery)
             | is just plain capitalism. The customers have a choice to
             | buy from a retailer they prefer and the important thing is
             | that I still have an option to choose where I make my
             | purchases.
        
               | _gabe_ wrote:
               | This exactly. I tried buying from other online retailers
               | recently to support other businesses directly, and their
               | websites are replete with what I would consider dark
               | patterns. Things like listing 2-day shipping and then
               | burying the fact that you'll get the item 2 days from
               | when it ships but it will take them a month to process
               | it. Seriously, this is a thing.
               | 
               | At least with Amazon I know I'm actually getting it in 2
               | days or they'll give me a refund (and often times still
               | give me the product too).
        
         | Nasrudith wrote:
         | Remember the FTC and their laughably ill-prepared anti-trust
         | lawsuit against then Facebook? They tried table-pounding
         | instead of doing their homework to properly define the area of
         | monopoly and got their case thrown out.
        
         | hbosch wrote:
         | I don't think it's so much about defending AMZN as it is
         | recognizing what a weak case the FTC chose. It's going to
         | amount to a mere slap on the wrist for Amazon, in reality. This
         | suit does nothing to limit the velocity Amazon has in
         | entertainment, retail, payments, cloud and so on.
        
         | gochi wrote:
         | I also don't really get the desire to defend them even if you
         | were a loyal fan. Outside of AWS, none of their services are
         | good anymore and have deteriorated. The only reason people
         | think Prime is even valuable is because of the quantity >
         | quality overriding people's rational. Amazon (the storefront)
         | has turned into Aliexpress but with the shoddiest random brands
         | ever like XYGHY selling you a product they're dropshipping for
         | a 300% markup. They've turned into the store where it's only
         | worth using to get AmazonBasics from.
        
           | dv_dt wrote:
           | Prime shipping has degraded to me to the point that 20% and
           | rising of the orders are late, and that's with a recent
           | warehouse in the same city.
        
             | bostik wrote:
             | I might well be one of the very few people in the thread
             | who can still benefit from prime shipping.
             | 
             | We have an Amazon prime depot about 10 minute _walk_ from
             | our house. The drivers can schedule their deliveries to us
             | either to the beginning or end of their routes, and that
             | shows: we get prime shipping for almost everything. In
             | fact, trying to batch individual items into fewer
             | deliveries is not necessarily even an option anymore. It 's
             | rare that I need the order in for next day, and I'd be
             | happy to have the whole batch delivered in 2-3 days. But
             | no, I get a small batch on next day, one item on day 2 and
             | two more on day 3. There is no - or very rarely - option to
             | select "all of these in one go, on day 3, please".
             | 
             | Then again, I live in UK, in the weird place that's both in
             | London and in Kent at the same time. That said, when we
             | _do_ need next-day delivery, it tends to be available for
             | about 50% of the time.
        
               | sdflhasjd wrote:
               | What does the "end of the route" look like for you? For
               | me, along with the worsening reliability of prime, it's
               | just getting later and later. When first moved into this
               | address, deliveries were generally before 3. Slowly that
               | became 5, then 7. Finally, to take the absolute piss this
               | has become as late as 10pm, which is not what I call
               | "next day" and at that point I don't really want it
               | delivered at all.
        
               | bostik wrote:
               | Rarely much later than than after 7, usually between
               | 14:00 and 17:00 in the afternoon. In a rather bizarre
               | twist, maybe slightly less than half the time _before_
               | 14:30. Never before 09:45
               | 
               | I think we've had two deliveries after 20:00 in the past
               | year.
        
             | KennyBlanken wrote:
             | ...and of course our state AGs and the FTC are doing
             | nothing about holding Amazon accountable for claiming prime
             | = 1 day shipping.
        
             | nilespotter wrote:
             | I let my prime membership lapse last year and I barely
             | notice the difference. I stopped shopping there as much and
             | started queuing things up into batches to meet the free
             | shipping without prime threshold. Now that threshold seems
             | to be zero, I still get free shipping on everything. It
             | takes a little bit longer, like 1-2 days, sometimes, that's
             | it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | technothrasher wrote:
           | > They've turned into the store where it's only worth using
           | to get AmazonBasics from.
           | 
           | Some that is because if anything does well in their
           | marketplace, they make an AmazonBasics version and then
           | undercut them.
        
       | treis wrote:
       | This doesn't seem to be the right tack. There's legitimate
       | reasons to favor sellers that use your own logistics. Hard to see
       | that as anti-competitive. Even harder to see why they picked this
       | issue when there's seemingly many more blatant ones going on.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I think her strategy is pretty plausible. They're abusing their
         | position. I won't say it's slam dunk monopolism, but we've been
         | on a decades-long trend of looser and looser regulation and I
         | think it's high time the FTC takes a stand to actually tighten
         | a bit. I'm not familiar enough with legal statute to say how
         | strong their case will be, but it certainly feels like the kind
         | of the thing they should be doing and I trust Lina Khan to have
         | her ducks in a row. She wouldn't be teeing up a high profile
         | case that doesn't have a high chance of success.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | There are good reasons for violating most rules. That's why we
         | write laws; in order to make violating those rules more
         | expensive, therefore not profitable.
         | 
         | It's not exculpating for a burglar to claim that a burglary was
         | a really good choice for them at the time.
         | 
         | edit:
         | 
         | > There's legitimate reasons to favor sellers that use your own
         | logistics. Hard to see that as anti-competitive.
         | 
         | These sentences bother me so much. The argument is about what
         | is or is not legitimate, and you're not making an case, you're
         | just giving a verdict. _Why_ is it hard to see?
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > There's legitimate reasons to favor sellers that use your own
         | logistics. Hard to see that as anti-competitive.
         | 
         | Whether or not there are _also_ "legitimate reasons", its not
         | hard at all to see favoritism on a platform with market
         | dominance conditioned on use of another service as leveraging
         | dominance in one market to gain control of another.
        
           | treis wrote:
           | Hard for me to buy "selling on Amazon.com" and "fulfilling
           | orders sold on Amazon.com" as separate markets.
        
         | TheCaptain4815 wrote:
         | Not only that, I'm sure most customers PREFER sellers that use
         | Amazon's logistics. I sure do. It's more trustworthy, you know
         | the product exists at an amazon warehouse, faster shipping,
         | etc.
        
           | sergiotapia wrote:
           | I'm the total opposite. How can I trust Amazon if they aren't
           | the ones selling me the merchandise? 3rd party sellers killed
           | that website entirely for me.
           | 
           | I needed to buy creatine and the last place I would buy it
           | would be Amazon because there are too many chinese
           | counterfeits, and worse Amazon seems to wash their hands of
           | any responsibility. I ultimately bought creatine from
           | nootropicsdepot. I buy things directly from the manufacturer
           | now or physically from Target.
        
         | Eji1700 wrote:
         | The cynic in me says it's because this way they can say "we
         | tried" and not actually do anything.
         | 
         | Antitrust lawsuits died the day MS got a slap on the wrist, and
         | we've been paying for it as a society ever since. I really
         | doubt the authenticity of this effort, but I also lack the
         | expertise to judge properly so maybe I shouldn't be so
         | pessimistic.
        
           | likpok wrote:
           | I don't think it's the cynical take, the current FTC chair
           | seriously believes that the FTC should be doing more
           | antitrust enforcement and the paper that got her noticed
           | specifically called out Amazon (IIRC the amazon/diapers.com
           | conflict).
           | 
           | She runs into challenges because she has a somewhat novel
           | theory of antitrust. This causes conflict between the long-
           | standing staffers (who both want to win cases and seem to
           | dislike the new direction) and with judges (who don't seem to
           | be buying her theories).
        
             | CPLX wrote:
             | Her theory of antitrust goes back 100+ years. It's that
             | there should be robust competition and when firms get too
             | large and powerful they should be broken up.
             | 
             | The alternate theory is the novel one. That theory
             | basically sums up to "no we shouldn't" and also "after a
             | few years in public service I am happy to announce I have
             | taken a role at a large monopolistic company and can now
             | afford a summer home."
             | 
             | For more info read this book: https://mattstoller.com/
        
               | grogenaut wrote:
               | Are using novel as in newer or novel as in different than
               | widely considered at current?
        
           | HWR_14 wrote:
           | > the day MS got a slap on the wrist
           | 
           | That "slap on the wrist" was sufficient to prevent MS from
           | owning the browser.
        
             | chung8123 wrote:
             | It prevented a lot more than that. They were not able to
             | bundle software where Apple was able to include many things
             | by default.
        
             | Eji1700 wrote:
             | Only just, and more because of their continued incompetence
             | in that area with IE.
             | 
             | They were going to actually break the company apart into
             | different divisions to stop the vertical monopoly, but
             | instead that's just become standard.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > Even harder to see why they picked this issue when there's
         | seemingly many more blatant ones going on.
         | 
         | I know nothing about their thinking here, but very often when
         | you see enforcement agencies focusing on something that seems
         | like a lesser problem in the basket of problems, it's because
         | they're selecting the specific point they feel they can win in
         | court on.
         | 
         | What wins in court is related to what you can prove, not
         | necessarily related to what the worst offense is.
        
         | burkaman wrote:
         | What are the legitimate reasons?
        
       | totallywrong wrote:
       | How about fake reviews? That's a whole industry deceiving people
       | with Amazon's blessing. I can't even fathom the economic impact
       | of the practice over the years.
       | 
       | And another one: Amazon Basics. Free market research with the
       | data from your paying sellers, to then enter a market with a
       | product you know will sell, in a position of dominance. Much like
       | they do with open source in AWS.
       | 
       | They should get hit with billions, but one can only hope.
        
         | AnthonyMouse wrote:
         | > Free market research with the data from your paying sellers,
         | to then enter a market with a product you know will sell, in a
         | position of dominance.
         | 
         | But these are the things that are pro-competitive. So now they
         | make batteries. They're not putting Energizer out of business,
         | they can still sell through Walmart or local convenience stores
         | etc., and some customers still buy Energizer batteries on
         | Amazon, but now customers have a new option for batteries from
         | a well-known brand with lower prices. Obviously the competitors
         | don't like this -- they're losing business to new competition
         | -- but new competition is _good_.
         | 
         | Where you run into problems is where companies leverage a
         | dominant market position in one area into abusive practices in
         | another. So for example, if Amazon had a monopoly on retail,
         | they could demand huge margins for reselling a competitor's
         | batteries, or just stop carrying competing batteries and charge
         | high prices for their own because customers have no other
         | option.
         | 
         | But they have no such market power. If they tried to charge
         | significantly more than competing retailers for basic
         | commodities, customers would just buy them from whoever has the
         | best price.
         | 
         | Compare this to, for example, mobile app stores where customers
         | in practice have one store provided by the phone platform and
         | if that store charges high margins or doesn't carry something
         | they want, they have to buy a different device for hundreds of
         | dollars, over a $1 app. Also, there are only two platforms of
         | note so if you dislike any practice shared by both of them
         | you're out of luck, whereas in an ordinary retail market there
         | are a zillion competing retailers.
        
         | hyperbovine wrote:
         | Curious that a competitor has not sprung up to address this
         | problem head-on...
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | Probably hard with a behemoth like Amazon having so much
           | influence on the market.
        
       | YChacker100 wrote:
       | It was always coming...
        
       | pacetherace wrote:
       | I sometimes do find different prices for same products with
       | amazon pushing me to buy product with prime shipping.
       | 
       | If you use an extension like Honey, it will warn you that a
       | product is available for lower price without Prime.
        
         | scrum-treats wrote:
         | If you have time, consider taking a picture of that and
         | submitting it to FTC (https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/), in
         | support of https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-
         | releases/2023/06/....
        
       | johndhi wrote:
       | With Temu coming from China to compete with Amazon, and the US
       | regulators going full anti-China recently, I'm really interested
       | to see whether these actions against Amazon get pushback from the
       | top of government, and ultimately get stalled.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | I hope not. I am so tired of "but if you don't let us be evil,
         | China will" as a justification to allow tech monopolies to
         | operate unchecked.
         | 
         | We should regulate Amazon, and we cannot regulate Temu, we ban
         | it.
        
           | FormerBandmate wrote:
           | China's banning our tech companies and they're regulating the
           | shit out of their own. They do a lot of shit we shouldn't but
           | they're dead on that tech companies should serve society
           | instead of the other way around
        
             | hyuuu wrote:
             | eh, the US also bans Chinese tech companies too, i think
             | the fear of data being used inappropriately is equally high
             | on both parties. The US does have more international and
             | larger corporations, so obviously in terms of number we
             | have more banned.
        
               | gloryjulio wrote:
               | Not really. There are some hardware bans, but are there
               | any bans on the software companies?
        
           | jimbob45 wrote:
           | _We should regulate Amazon, and we cannot regulate Temu, we
           | ban it._
           | 
           | Then we're back to the trade war. The tit-for-tat from that
           | became ridiculous.
        
             | cscurmudgeon wrote:
             | We have always been in a trade war, we just never fought
             | back.
        
             | PreachSoup wrote:
             | We are not back in the trade war. We always IN the trade
             | war. Look up how many things are banned in China while
             | their companies like Tencent/Tiktok/ Aliexpress/Temu just
             | do whatever they want here.
             | 
             | The question has and will always been, so what are you
             | gonna do about it?
        
         | jncfhnb wrote:
         | Oh neat. I didn't know who Temu was or why I was getting
         | blasted with their ads.
         | 
         | They keep trying to sell me dildo headware.
        
         | screwturner68 wrote:
         | A lot of the anti-china stuff is coming from the top, the CHIPS
         | act is a great example. I think taking down Amazon and maybe
         | busting them up ala AT&T would be a feather in Biden's cap with
         | the liberals and the right thing to do. Then they need to go
         | after Google and Facebook.
        
           | chaosharmonic wrote:
           | > A lot of the anti-china stuff is coming from the top, the
           | CHIPS act is a great example.
           | 
           | I mean... TSMC is based in Taiwan, and if China were ever to
           | invade they'd have a vested interest in kneecapping American
           | businesses that currently rely on that chip supply (AMD,
           | Apple, and Qualcomm all come to mind) -- for any of a list of
           | reasons ranging from turnabout over the whole Huawei thing to
           | just the obvious incentive to turn that manufacturing
           | capacity toward producing a domestic supply.
           | 
           | In that context, building up domestic suppliers of our own is
           | just a reasonable precaution.
           | 
           | > I think taking down Amazon and maybe busting them up ala
           | AT&T would be a feather in Biden's cap with the liberals and
           | the right thing to do. Then they need to go after Google and
           | Facebook.
           | 
           | But also yes, I'm with you on this wholeheartedly.
           | 
           | I'd further add, given we have a history of breaking up
           | telecom companies specifically for amassing too much market
           | power that you as a consumer to avoid them, that we should
           | probably turn the same to most ISPs. Also that it's baffling
           | that no one's gone after Apple over iMessage, what with the
           | way it actively makes text chains worse the moment anyone
           | involved isn't a customer of theirs.
        
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