[HN Gopher] NYC Congestion Toll Could Cost Drivers $23 per Trip ...
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NYC Congestion Toll Could Cost Drivers $23 per Trip Starting Next
Spring
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 19 points
Date : 2023-06-28 20:36 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| sesuximo wrote:
| Why are they considering exemptions for low income or day
| visitors? day visitors in particular seems like exactly the kind
| of people who should pay. If you're low income perhaps you could
| consider not driving?
|
| I kind of understand an exemption for taxis especially at 60th
| street.
| credit_guy wrote:
| It's not exemptions, it's discounts. And not day visitors, but
| overnight visitors.
|
| > while discounts for low-income drivers and overnight visitors
| are also reportedly in the cards.
|
| They are considered because of politics. New Jersey politicians
| have zero to gain, and their constituents have something to
| lose. New York may decide to give zero damns and risk
| litigation (who knows, maybe there's an interstate commerce
| angle?). Or they might throw them a symbolic bone.
| supertrope wrote:
| Because many Americans simultaneously believe in paying your
| own way and egalitarianism. Direct cash transfers as an anti-
| poverty measure are unpopular. In kind transfers and low income
| discounts appeal to egalitarianism. We Americans also treat
| driving as a de facto right. Driving is considered something
| that must be provided and the cost figured out later (a dignity
| not a price).
| mbiondi wrote:
| Oddly, NYC is archipelago city, and the only way from Long
| Island/Brooklyn/Queens to New Jersey is via Manhattan, hence the
| congestion. I guess one could take the huge detour via Staten
| Island, but the Verrazzano already has a big toll.
|
| If only the roads were planned bit better.
| jballanc wrote:
| Based on the fee being below 60th only, you can easily cross
| the GWB into Bronx without getting anywhere near the toll.
| anony23 wrote:
| Are the FDR and west side highway exempt from the toll?
| supertrope wrote:
| Even the subways are centered on Manhattan.
| Daishiman wrote:
| The billions of dollars it would take to develop such
| infrastructure would make this congestion charge cheap by
| comparison.
| quantum_state wrote:
| This toll is outrageous and disgusting...
| GoRudy wrote:
| The congestion downtown is outrageous. The honking from cars
| sitting in stopped traffic is noise pollution to a degree most
| people will never experience. Broome street from 3pm until 7pm
| is a nightmare. Endless honking and road rage. It's a detriment
| to the neighborhood and the traffic cops are constantly getting
| verbally berated for traffic that is not their fault they're
| just trying to keep the cross streets open.
|
| I would love to see this price increased further + actual fines
| levied for mindless honking in stopped traffic.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| As a tourist in NYC a few years ago, the honking was
| fascinating. Usually, you honk to get someone's attention.
| Not in NYC. Thousands of people honking for literally no
| reason. Why does this affliction affect so many people? I
| wonder if by honking, people are subconsciously creating an
| association between honking and moving even though there's no
| relationship?
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Try China or India where cars come with much longer lasting
| horns than they do in the U.S. because people honk much
| more.
| supertrope wrote:
| The crosswalk buttons don't do anything but some people
| press them.
| Analemma_ wrote:
| I don't understand this mindset. The only way a congestion
| charge can possibly actually work is if it's high enough to
| discourage people from making car trips into the city. If it's
| low enough that people can ignore it, then it's useless for its
| purpose.
| the_optimist wrote:
| Sure, introduce a Pigovian tax then enhance public transit /
| trains. But what will happen in practice is this money will
| go into general coffers, be squandered on graft,
| "consulting," and intentionally non-viable pet projects, then
| we all are poorer.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| Your certainty around "what will happen in practice" is
| completely misguided. The program is being run by the MTA
| and the tolls collected are sequestered for MTA capital
| projects and will be used solely to invest in public
| transit. The program you're decrying and the one you claim
| to support are identical.
|
| > _Congestion pricing refers to the use of electronic
| tolling to charge vehicles for entering certain areas
| during peak commuting hours, ideally resulting in reduced
| traffic congestion and increased revenue for transit-
| oriented projects._
|
| > _Revenue generated from the program will be bonded
| against and placed in a designated MTA "lockbox" to fund
| capital improvements to the city's ailing mass transit
| system._
|
| > _The program is expected to generate $1 billion annually,
| which will be used to secure $15 billion in bonds for
| repairs and improvements to the public transportation
| system._
|
| > _The electronic tolling system will operate similarly to
| the cashless tolling system on the Verrazzano-Narrows
| Bridge, where overhead sensors read drivers' E-ZPass tags
| and administer the fee directly to their account._
| supertrope wrote:
| The explicit purpose of the congestion charge is to fund
| transit. I do share your skepticism as NY/NJ leaders have
| previously laundered tolls into the general budget making
| them a de facto tax.
| EA-3167 wrote:
| That also means that it entirely favors people with the sort
| of disposable income that such a charge is meaningless,
| making it pretty regressive. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I
| can understand why some people feel that it's unfair.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Could you make road tolls progressive using a lottery
| instead? You either get access for the time window you bid
| for or you don't.
|
| Alternatively, you force cars out by doing the 'ol
| Barcelona superblocks:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=barcelona+superblocks
| PaulHoule wrote:
| You can take transit if you don't want to pay the toll.
|
| If I go to NYC on my own I take the bus from Ithaca, if I
| have a party of 3 or more I drive across the GWB and Bronx
| and stay somewhere near the east side of the Queensbridge
| because it is cheaper to park, stay in a hotel, etc. The
| toll is just one more reason to keep doing what I am doing.
| Daishiman wrote:
| People from all social strata live and work in Manhattan.
| Most people visiting from New Jersey can find parking and
| take the Path for the same price or less than what parking
| costs.
| anony23 wrote:
| This toll will have 0 impact on congestion and just extract
| money from folks that are already over taxed. It's a slap in
| the face to working class NYers.
| Symbiote wrote:
| * * *
| supertrope wrote:
| A 5 cent plastic grocery bag fee significantly changes
| behavior. People are sensitive to explicit costs.
| jballanc wrote:
| About time!
|
| NYC is easily the city most connected by public transit in the
| US. Manhattan doubly so. In fact, you can find relatively nice,
| reasonably discounted hotels in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood
| because it is a relative public transit desert: you have to walk
| a whole 3 avenues to the nearest subway station!
| JimtheCoder wrote:
| "NYC is easily the city most connected by public transit in the
| US."
|
| I wonder if there could possibly be reasons why people don't
| want to ride public transit (subways) in NYC...
| downrightmike wrote:
| They're barely keeping it together, def not on time. They
| need serious upgrades to deal with ancient infrastructure and
| capacity.
| JimtheCoder wrote:
| The times I've taken the subway in NYC...if my biggest
| complaint was that they were not on time, I would be a
| happy guy.
| wdb wrote:
| And I thought London congestion charge was expensive
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(page generated 2023-06-28 23:02 UTC)