[HN Gopher] Show HN: Serverless VPN, pay as you go, unlimited de...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Serverless VPN, pay as you go, unlimited devices, no
       subscriptions
        
       Author : gigapotential
       Score  : 94 points
       Date   : 2023-06-28 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (upvpn.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (upvpn.app)
        
       | lost_tourist wrote:
       | How can I pay with this with cash via snail mail?
        
       | lxgr wrote:
       | > Serverless! How? [...] We provision a VPN server on-demand when
       | you connect.
       | 
       | You keep using that word...
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | I agree its a misnomer, however appropriate to technically
         | describe whats happening in one word.
         | 
         | Its a computing model people recognize ..
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serverless_computing
        
           | GordonS wrote:
           | But wouldn't this be more appropriately termed IaaS
           | (infrastructure as a service) than serverless?
        
             | koito17 wrote:
             | ...or "on-demand VPN server" in the case of UpVPN. But none
             | of these alternative names market as well as "Severless",
             | so we're stuck with "Serverless" whether we like it or not.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | It's just a consumer VPN service... as a service!
             | 
             | Nobody calls Netflix a "serverless VOD platform" either, or
             | Verizon a "serverless wireless carrier".
        
           | slim wrote:
           | why is it important to me as a user, that you provision
           | servers on demand ?
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | But is it even appropriate in this context?
           | 
           | To me, "serverless" means "you'd normally be setting up a
           | server yourself in some way (whether low-level and manually,
           | or via a standardized VM or container image orchestration
           | solution), but here you don't have to".
           | 
           | As a VPN user (of this type of VPN in any case; corporate
           | VPNs are a different beast), I've never had to set up a
           | server myself - I'm paying to use somebody else's server!
           | 
           | In other words, we also don't call Gmail "serverless".
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Is it worth dying on the "machine isn't the server, it is the
         | application that serves" hill or has that shipped sailed in the
         | 90s?
         | 
         | More seriously, serverless has come to really mean "almost
         | fully outsourced ops". If all you need to do is check logs and
         | your bill, but you can still run arbitrary code, then it is
         | serverless.
        
       | hackan wrote:
       | Pretty neat idea, but it leaks DNS requests unfortunately: see
       | point 5 "When We Share Information" in [privacy
       | policy](https://upvpn.app/privacy-policy/).
       | 
       | If they used some sort of disposable or "trustable" DNS server,
       | it would be awesome!
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | If you use the UpVPN app it configures DNS=1.1.1.1 and not
         | configurable yet.
         | 
         | However, when you use Web Devices, a configuration file or QR
         | code is generated with DNS=1.1.1.1 but you can change it before
         | using.
        
         | crisopolis wrote:
         | Interesting, if they were going to provision a disposable vpn,
         | couldn't they have done the same with the DNS.
        
       | danpalmer wrote:
       | I feel like this needs a pricing calculator. 3 different pricing
       | axes makes it really hard to know how much you'll use.
       | 
       | Perhaps you could present some common use-cases with example
       | prices?
       | 
       | If you're avoiding doing that because it should show the pricing
       | to be too high, then perhaps that's something that needs to be
       | worked on. In general pay-as-you-go pricing should be lower for
       | the same outcome than the all-you-can-eat version of the same
       | thing, because you should be able to not pay for the downtime.
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | Thank you for constructive feedback, pricing calculator is a
         | good idea.
         | 
         | As of now, The pricing section on FAQ page provides examples of
         | pricing https://upvpn.app/faq/#pricing
         | 
         | Moreover, If you like to see it visually the first picture of
         | dashboard on landing page https://upvpn.app showcase real usage
         | and real charges.
         | 
         | I provided addition info on pricing model here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36512794
        
         | convalescindrey wrote:
         | > In general pay-as-you-go pricing should be lower for the same
         | outcome than the all-you-can-eat version of the same thing,
         | because you should be able to not pay for the downtime.
         | 
         | Could you clarify why this should be true? In the long run,
         | given the costs are the same, then the income of the company
         | also needs to be the same. This means that on average you'd pay
         | the same. Some power-users would pay more with pay-as-you-go,
         | some rarely-users would pay less, since they are cross-
         | subsidizing the power-users in subscription models.
         | 
         | I can imagine some dynamics caused by power-users avoiding pay-
         | as-you-go plans, so subscription plans see different usage
         | patterns. But it's not at all obvious to me why this should be
         | cheaper. On the contrary, all those on-demand resources need to
         | exist and there needs to be infra for spin up/down etc, so I'd
         | actually expect higher pricing.
        
           | danpalmer wrote:
           | From the customer perspective there needs to be an advantage
           | to paying by usage. The reason PAYG phone plans exist is to
           | appeal to those who don't need or want everything a monthly
           | contract provides, particularly for budget conscious users.
           | 
           | Contracts/bundles/etc appear to charge less because they
           | bundle together things on the assumption that consumption
           | will follow a predictable distribution, however they are
           | actually a mechanism for _raising_ average selling price by
           | giving people more than they need /want/use and charging them
           | more for it.
           | 
           | They build in a margin on top of the average, or somewhere
           | above it on that curve. This means the average user is likely
           | paying more than for their share of usage. Sure, from the
           | company's perspective they have to keep the resources around,
           | but that's a scaling and cost-base issue for the company, not
           | the concern of the user, and if the company scales well it
           | shouldn't be much of an issue.
           | 
           | Ultimately with this service, the competition is $5/m for
           | effectively unlimited usage. If this service costs the
           | average user $10/m, then only a small fraction at the bottom
           | end of the usage distribution are going to make a saving, and
           | find it a compelling offering, all things being equal in
           | terms of product quality etc.
           | 
           | This doesn't apply to everything of course, different
           | industries, product categories, etc, are priced in different
           | ways and have different customer expectations, but it's
           | common and I think it applies here.
        
       | heipei wrote:
       | The fact that they have "Falkenstein" as one of the German
       | locations already tells me they're gonna be using Hetzner VPS to
       | provision the VM :P
        
       | jrhizor wrote:
       | seems very expensive
        
       | huhtenberg wrote:
       | This sure reads like a botnet being resold as a VPN service.
       | 
       | In other words, the pitch is suspiciously light on details that
       | actually matter to back their "serverless" claim. The only
       | technical way to parse "serverless" is that their exit nodes are
       | spread over end-user devices. So how did they end up there?
        
       | rvwaveren wrote:
       | I think a lot of people are getting tired of subscriptions
       | everywhere. For the average user, it's not possible to spin up a
       | VPN because of lack of technical knowledge. So, if you are an
       | infrequent VPN user and hate subscriptions, this could be a nice
       | service.
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | I get your "tired of subscription" sentiment, it resonates with
         | lot of us for certain products.
         | 
         | Even if someone can spin up VPN server, UpVPN makes it much
         | much quicker and hassle free to do it with one click or one cli
         | command.
        
       | caust1c wrote:
       | This couldn't at all be related to the submission 34 days ago
       | talking about building a VPN on Fly.io with Tailscale (or even
       | Headscale) could it?
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36064305
       | 
       | My take is it's either a very quick copy, or the feds. Perhaps
       | both.
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | Not everything is connected to HN's sychophantically favorite
         | buzzwords.
        
           | caust1c wrote:
           | Just saying it happens to have come out of nowhere and their
           | locations are suspiciously similar to Fly's regions.
        
             | TechBro8615 wrote:
             | You'd have to try the service and test the IP addresses to
             | be sure, but yeah maybe it's running on Fly. Or any other
             | cloud network(s) with servers in those locations, which
             | could be any (or multiple) of them - it's a fairly common
             | set of regions.
             | 
             | The reason most cloud providers have overlapping datacenter
             | locations is generally explainable by the fact that they
             | all rent space in the same physical buildings (e.g. an
             | Equinix datacenter), where they peer with each other and
             | classify the building as an "internet exchange point"
             | (IXP). These buildings tend to congregate near each other
             | for historical or geographical reasons, like proximity to
             | the landing terminal of an undersea cable, or inheriting a
             | building from the old DARPA network.
             | 
             | It's actually quite annoying how clouds will label their
             | region e.g. "gcp-eu-1," but it's actually just a reference
             | to some rack space that Google rents in the same London
             | Equinix datacenter as AWS and Azure.
        
             | KomoD wrote:
             | Bingo, the website and api itself is hosted on Fly.io at
             | least.                 ~ ipinfo upvpn.app
             | 
             | - IP 213.188.207.130
             | 
             | - Anycast true
             | 
             | - City Chicago
             | 
             | - Region Illinois
             | 
             | - Country United States (US)
             | 
             | - Currency USD ($)
             | 
             | - Location 41.8500,-87.6500
             | 
             | - Organization AS40509 Fly.io, Inc.
             | 
             | - Postal 60666
             | 
             | - Timezone America/Chicago
        
               | caust1c wrote:
               | Even juicier:                   15:21:52 $ curl
               | https://upvpn.app/install.sh         #!/bin/sh         #
               | Based on Tailscale: Copyright (c) 2021 Tailscale Inc &
               | AUTHORS All rights reserved.         # Use of this source
               | code is governed by a BSD-style         # license that
               | can be found in the LICENSE file.         #          #
               | This script detects the current operating system, and
               | installs         # upvpn on supported OS.
               | 
               | To be clear, I don't mean to disparage upvpn, in fact I'm
               | impressed they pulled it together so quickly.
               | 
               | Just feels crazy to read about it a month ago and see it
               | today, you know?
        
               | gigapotential wrote:
               | Their installation script is open source and is
               | acknowledged as such.
               | 
               | upvpn is not related to them.
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | None of it is related to the link above.
         | 
         | I love Fly.io - they a building a great product.
         | 
         | The website https://upvpn.app is hosted on Fly.io as identified
         | in the comments below. VPN servers are not hosted on Fly.io
        
       | dns_snek wrote:
       | Who is this for, exactly? The only way this makes sense, in my
       | eyes, is if you're:
       | 
       | 1. Someone who uses VPN very infrequently, likely a couple of
       | times per year while using less than 500GB of traffic, and
       | 
       | 2. Someone who _doesn 't_ use a VPN to bypass georestrictions,
       | excluding most travelers, and
       | 
       | 3. Someone who doesn't mind being classified as a bot
       | 
       | That must be an extremely tiny group of people, right?
       | 
       | Pricing is outrageous for daily VPN users, while your use of
       | datacenter IPs means it's going to be almost useless for evading
       | georestrictions.
       | 
       | Besides, I'm struggling to wrap my head around the concept of a
       | "serverless VPNs". If you're actually spinning up a VPS for each
       | customer then that seems like a very wasteful use of resources
       | for no reason.
        
       | cpursley wrote:
       | If you translate this site & product into Russian, Farsi and
       | Chinese and accept crypto, you're going to a make a lot of money.
       | Those countries activity block the well known commercial VPNs and
       | I'm sure others.
        
       | AnotherGoodName wrote:
       | For streaming that doesn't get detected as being via a VPN the
       | only successful way i've found is to use a custom VPN server on
       | an IP no service knows as a known VPN.
       | 
       | My home country has TV networks that refuse to work on any of the
       | known VPN providers. They've actually gone to the trouble of IP
       | blocking known exits and the VPNs don't seem to change that often
       | enough.
       | 
       | I know enough to buy a lowendbox and set it up as a VPN and use
       | that and it works (provided the host is oddball enough not to be
       | a known datacenter based IP). But i wonder if the above would
       | work better than the more regular VPN providers.
        
         | hnav wrote:
         | Once the OP has ramped up their business, they can have a
         | discounted P2P offering where you use each other as exit nodes.
        
           | r_lee wrote:
           | This is what the "residential proxies" do. They push out a
           | free VPN or buy out a game in the play/app store and
           | integrate their p2p network on it, so that other people can
           | then use your device as a proxy.
           | 
           | Never ever would you want to pay to do that to yourself lol.
        
           | hk__2 wrote:
           | That's a very dangerous feature: what will happen when
           | someone watch pedoporn using you as an exit node?
        
             | lionkor wrote:
             | I've always wondered, is there no burden of proof on the
             | prosecution to prove it was you, especially with a p2p VPN
             | installed?
        
               | belval wrote:
               | In a perfect world for sure, but in practice if there is
               | any rumor that something as socially toxic as that went
               | through your network, ultimately your reputation is
               | ruined regardless of the legal outcome.
        
               | stronglikedan wrote:
               | Not to mention your bank account being ruined by defense
               | attorneys.
        
               | TechBro8615 wrote:
               | As long as p2p exit nodes are relatively uncommon, it
               | will be relatively unbelievable for you to claim that
               | "someone else" was doing the illegal things on your
               | network.
               | 
               | But if p2p exit nodes were orders of magnitude more
               | common, then the burden of proof would indisputably be
               | the responsibility of the prosecutors, since anyone could
               | credibly claim "someone else did it."
               | 
               | And that's why this trope of "but what if someone does
               | bad stuff on your network?!" is so frustratingly self-
               | defeating: if everyone just ignored that risk, then
               | everyone could have a p2p exit node, and the risk would
               | be mitigated. It's a sort of prisoner's dilemma where
               | nobody wants to be the early adopter of a system that
               | would, on the whole, benefit all of us.
               | 
               | A society is difficult to surveil when everyone uses Tor
               | as both a client and an exit node, and onion routing is
               | the default method of exchanging packets (some might say
               | it should have been incorporated into the original design
               | of the internet). So it's perhaps worth noting that
               | adversaries of society, such as the NSA or FBI, have a
               | great incentive to perpetuate fearmongering about p2p
               | networks and the threat of "but whatabout muh criminals
               | on muh network!"
               | 
               | If you're reading this, maybe it's time to setup a Tor
               | relay (with config flag `ExitRelay 1`).
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | > But if p2p exit nodes were orders of magnitude more
               | common, then the burden of proof would indisputably be
               | the responsibility of the prosecutors, since anyone could
               | credibly claim "someone else did it."
               | 
               | I think I'm more cynical about our justice system, but
               | the way I see it, this just gives them ammunition to go
               | after anybody on a whim. Simply getting tangled up in the
               | justice system, even if innocent, is an expensive and
               | stressful thing. Most of us do not have the resources to
               | just have a dedicated team of lawyers taking care of
               | everything. So if everyone was running a Tor exit node,
               | and it was known that there was CSAM accessed through
               | some of them, an overzealous prosecutor could probably
               | push through at least a search warrant of your computers
               | because as a Tor exit node runner, there's a reasonable
               | chance that CSAM was accessed via your node. You're not
               | getting your stuff back for a while if that happens.
        
               | TechBro8615 wrote:
               | I agree, but that's why I labeled it a prisoner's
               | dilemma. If _literally everyone_ ran an exit node, then
               | if prosecutors wanted to assume that any exit node
               | facilitated the transfer of illegal material, then they
               | would need to find other ways of proving criminality
               | other than what packets were sent from your IP address.
               | They can 't seize everyone's hardware. If they wanted to
               | obtain a warrant for you, they'd need more probable cause
               | than "he's running an exit node" (because everyone runs
               | an exit node).
               | 
               | As it stands, there's already a certain level of
               | injustice, because corporations like Google and Microsoft
               | facilitate all sorts of illegal communications, and the
               | worst that happens is they get a letter from the feds
               | asking them nicely for their subscriber's information.
               | The investigators don't jump to the conclusion that the
               | CEO of Google is a child predator and seize all the
               | Google servers. But for an independent system admin on a
               | home network, that's exactly what they do, even though
               | there's no fundamental difference other than the size of
               | the operation (and the implicit assumption that exit
               | relays are unusual, which is the unfair assumption I'm
               | trying to draw attention to as an explanation for lack of
               | plausible deniability on the part of the idealistic
               | sysadmin in a world where exit nodes are unusual).
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | > If literally everyone ran an exit node
               | 
               | This is impossible in practice though, so while an
               | interesting thought experiment, it has little bearing on
               | reality. Your local court isn't going to be running a Tor
               | exit node on their systems. Your friendly nearby S&P500
               | corp isn't going to be running Tor exit nodes on their
               | systems. Your local public library probably won't either.
               | 
               | > They can't seize everyone's hardware.
               | 
               | With your thought experiment, yes, but in practice that's
               | not going to be the case. You're more likely to end up
               | with very selective enforcement instead -- if you run a
               | Tor exit node, the justice system can effectively
               | blackmail you because at the very least they can cause
               | you a very expensive headache. "Shame if we had to get a
               | search warrant to make sure it wasn't you downloading
               | some CSAM"
        
               | midasuni wrote:
               | Legality aside maybe I simply don't want people using my
               | computer to share images of children
        
               | TechBro8615 wrote:
               | Would you want to provide infrastructure for Russian and
               | Chinese citizens to access the parts of the internet that
               | are censored by their autocratic regimes? What if the
               | only way to do that also requires incurring a risk that a
               | child predator might use your computer too?
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | It would be a pyrrhic victory for you even if you prove
               | it wasn't you that was downloading it. Your name is going
               | to be in court documents associated with prosecution over
               | csam or other illegal materials. This information will be
               | easily found. If you're the first case of it's kind, you
               | will also have to deal with whatever tales the media
               | spins about this. If you're somewhere like Florida, you
               | might end up with your photo next to a label of
               | 'pedophile' being plastered publicly.
               | 
               | A lot of people will simply see the headline, assume
               | you're guilty and treat you as such. And a lot of people
               | are willing to treat those they think are pedophiles very
               | very badly (there was a case recently where a murderer
               | serving life in jail killed his pedophile cellmate)
               | Anyone that knows about this incident will probably never
               | allow you to be around kids unattended, regardless of
               | your innocence. You will be a social pariah.
               | 
               | Innocent until proven guilty had to be enshrined in law
               | because most people will treat you guilty until proven
               | innocent, and they don't have much concern about
               | forgetting the 'proven innocent' bit.
        
               | thefounder wrote:
               | So I guess it's time to disconnect from the internet, at
               | least your PC b/c you can't be certain it's not used as a
               | vpn/proxy service through an exploit or rough app.
        
               | Cyph0n wrote:
               | No need to even be in jail for that to happen: https://ww
               | w.dailymail.co.uk/news/melbourne/article-12217413/...
        
               | Syonyk wrote:
               | If you want the "full experience," just set yourself up
               | as a Tor exit node. You'll rapidly find it's impossible
               | to use the internet from the same connection. VPN
               | services are more and more falling into the same
               | category. Even just "cloud provider" IP ranges are broken
               | often enough to be noticeable - I run an Outline VPN on
               | DigitalOcean droplets every now and then, and I've found
               | that that's enough to get me 403'd from a lot of sites.
               | 
               | "Arrest first, deal with nerds protesting their innocence
               | later" still involves getting arrested.
        
               | spurgu wrote:
               | Would you want to turn over your computer to a forensics
               | expert to prove your innocence?
               | 
               | I would hope that authorities at least would _try_ to
               | build an actual case against you and not just raid your
               | home because of some fraudulent traffic from your IP. I
               | might be too optimistic in that regard.
        
               | lionkor wrote:
               | That is NOT how burden of proof works
        
               | BLKNSLVR wrote:
               | I can vouch for suspected fraudulent traffic being enough
               | for authorities to warrant a raid.
        
               | BolexNOLA wrote:
               | I'm guessing you can't elaborate lol
        
               | BLKNSLVR wrote:
               | I'd like to write up the details sooner rather than
               | later, and I've got pages of notes I've written, but
               | 
               | 1: it makes me angry to think about it
               | 
               | 2: I have other, positive things I'd rather do
               | 
               | It took them 8 months to return the ~$10k of gear they
               | "stole" from me, and they found nothing.
               | 
               | No apology, no explanation of how I was somehow caught up
               | in their data, just "come collect your stuff".
               | 
               | Ironically, they traumatized my kids (I don't think they
               | even did any background checks on me - I don't believe
               | they even knew there were kids in the house before they
               | barged in).
               | 
               | Luckily my kids are resilient and we can sometimes even
               | joke (bitterly) about it.
        
               | spurgu wrote:
               | Oh man, that sounds horrible. Was this in the US?
        
               | BLKNSLVR wrote:
               | Australia, so at least we didn't get guns shoved in our
               | faces.
               | 
               | I should also make the point that, with one exception,
               | the officers conducting the raid were polite.
        
               | orangea wrote:
               | I have no idea but maybe it would count as aiding and
               | abetting.
        
               | lionkor wrote:
               | That's a really good point. It could be claimed that you
               | must have known of the possibility and that you support
               | it, etc
        
             | pinkcan wrote:
             | suggest the use of the term Child Sexual Abuse Media - CSAM
             | as it better describes the content and reflects the harm it
             | causes
        
               | codedokode wrote:
               | If "children" make such media themselves, is it still
               | considered an "abuse"?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | geraldyo wrote:
               | Amongst "children", no. If for an adult, yes...
        
         | john_minsk wrote:
         | Just a suggestion: drop these providers
        
       | beardog wrote:
       | >We provision a VPN server on-demand when you connect. >We
       | deprovision it when you disconnect.
       | 
       | Do you still share an IP address with the other users? One of the
       | main ways a VPN grants privacy is because everyone shares a
       | handful of IPs. There is still demand for dedicated IPs though,
       | because they trigger blocking less.
       | 
       | I have a need for a good "residential"/"mobile" proxy/VPN
       | service, but I have yet to see a company that I was confident
       | that they were ethically sourcing the servers.
        
         | KomoD wrote:
         | > I have a need for a good "residential"/"mobile" proxy/VPN
         | service, but I have yet to see a company that I was confident
         | that they were ethically sourcing the servers.
         | 
         | If your willing to manage/self-host it yourself, some ISPs do
         | provide hosting as well, my old ISP provides a VPS at ~$10/mo
         | with a completely clean IP identical to their broadband
         | customers.
        
           | greygh0st wrote:
           | Hey KomoD. I'm with Proxywow. We have our own leased circuits
           | and do not sell third party proxies. Happy to set you up with
           | a test account.
           | 
           | How many proxies do you need? What GEO's? What pricing model
           | are you currently paying? What software will you be using?
           | Lastly - what do you plan on using proxies for? What's the
           | most convenient way to stay in contact? Email, WhatsApp, TG,
           | Skype? Thanks
        
       | KomoD wrote:
       | Minimum charge, billed by hour and bandwidth, no mention of what
       | provider the ips belong to, no bueno for me.
       | 
       | I'd rather just use Mullvad for EUR5/mo.
       | 
       | 12 hours of average usage for me would cost $4
       | 
       | Also: you say "when you end your VPN session, we promptly delete
       | the record from our database that links your session to the
       | specific cloud server", does it also get deleted from the
       | database backups? (assuming you do any)
        
       | stainablesteel wrote:
       | so now the log policy is up to whoever owns whatever server they
       | use?
        
       | shortcake27 wrote:
       | This is unrelated to the product, but I'm on mobile and I can see
       | your website is using a full-height scrollable container instead
       | of allowing the document to scroll naturally. This causes buggy
       | scrolling and prevents default browser behaviour - the address
       | bar doesn't collapse and tapping the top of the screen doesn't
       | scroll to the top of the document.
        
       | jandrese wrote:
       | $10/month is already double what most unlimited VPN providers
       | charge, and then you're putting bandwidth and time costs on top
       | of that? Even worse, for the ultra-premium price you are
       | getting...an AWS IP address. So enjoy your CAPCHAs and service
       | denials from bot detectors.
        
         | avarun wrote:
         | It doesn't seem to be per-month. It's just $10 to open an
         | account.
        
           | gigapotential wrote:
           | Opening account is free. There is no per-month cost.
           | 
           | $10 is a prepaid balance you start with (which never expires)
           | and consume by using UpVPN. One you run out of balance say
           | few months down the line - you purchase again.
        
             | jandrese wrote:
             | It is very confusing on the website.
        
               | gigapotential wrote:
               | Thank you for your feedback, making a note to improve it.
        
             | KomoD wrote:
             | Trying to open an account sent me to a stripe invoice.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | cpursley wrote:
       | Just signed up after spending all day messing with self-hosted
       | Algo & OpenVPN. A real shut up and take my money moment.
       | 
       | Very slow and actually quite expensive. However, works well with
       | Wireguard app on iOS!
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | Thank you for your feedback.
         | 
         | Your comment beautifully describes why upvpn exists: It saves
         | you time and makes it hassle free if you're setting up VPN
         | servers.
        
       | vbezhenar wrote:
       | Just write simple script. Why this service is needed.
       | Provisioning VPN server is not a rocket science.
        
         | notavalleyman wrote:
         | I really thought this was a reference to the dropbox showhn -
         | "you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
        
           | anaganisk wrote:
           | But in this case it actually is a onliner to spin up a VPN
           | and the relevant mobile/PC client apps are already there. One
           | click deploy scripts are available for digital ocean, AWS,
           | GCP, Azure etc. This OG Dropbox comment was too snarky, for a
           | genuine use case, the solutions in those comments were
           | actually complicated than using Dropbox, while spinning up
           | your own VPN is actually safer and better wrt streaming
           | services etc, not easy but serves the purpose in a safer and
           | better way.
        
             | quickthrower2 wrote:
             | There are plenty of VPN users "intersect" never used the
             | command line.
             | 
             | And maybe a smaller set like me who are geeks but prefer
             | not to manage their own server even from a script. As if
             | using such a script means no problems and you wont be
             | googling for why x y or z isn't working.
        
           | xen2xen1 wrote:
           | Mad haxorz skill?!?! I'm leet!
        
         | hfkwer wrote:
         | The ip space is what's valuable about a vpn service.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | Yeah, soooo simple. I've spent the entire day trying to figure
         | out how to run Algo and OpenVPN on DigitalOcean. With zero luck
         | 
         | Some of just don't like screwing with servers and are willing
         | to pay a premium for that. I absolutly loathe managing servers.
        
           | mirchiseth wrote:
           | I used to do Algo with a VM on GCP. But fly.io and tailscale
           | has made this really simple. Try this if you are looking for
           | an easier alternative https://github.com/patte/fly-tailscale-
           | exit
        
             | cpursley wrote:
             | Thanks, can I use this like a regular personal VPN - hook
             | up my phones, machines and route through it?
        
       | ApolloFortyNine wrote:
       | Kind of interesting idea, but looking at the per gb price, not
       | really sure who this is targeting. 100gb is $4, which is at or
       | more than the monthly price of many vpn companies. So downloading
       | is out of the question, leaving only just web browsing really.
       | 
       | Honestly I feel vpns are just kind of like gym memberships, it's
       | not expected for everyone who gets one to use it every day, even
       | though they could.
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | I like your analogy of gym membership to other VPN providers!
         | 
         | If I may use analogy to describe UpVPN - its like buying Milk -
         | you pay upfront you bring it home consume it and go to grocery
         | store and buy more.
         | 
         | UpVPN is an option in spectrum of VPN providers. Only you can
         | determine based on your usage if this option makes sense for
         | you.
         | 
         | What UpVPN does provide (unlimited devices without subscription
         | and your never expiring balance stays if you come back months
         | later) other providers do not. And vice-versa UpVPN for its
         | pricing model does not provide unlimited usage.
        
         | hackan wrote:
         | Yeah, the price is huge! I use terabytes of VPN traffic per
         | month...
        
           | WheatMillington wrote:
           | Surely though you realise that's not typical.
        
             | FinnKuhn wrote:
             | nor the intended customer base. This seems more for someone
             | who needs to use a VPN occasionally, for example to watch a
             | specific movie or VPN back into their home country while on
             | vacation
        
               | KomoD wrote:
               | Even on vacation it could probably be more than a normal
               | 1 month subscription.
        
               | FinnKuhn wrote:
               | do you go on vacation every month?
        
               | KomoD wrote:
               | I never said so? Just dont pay for more than 1 month
               | lol??
        
               | FinnKuhn wrote:
               | Most of them a subscription services though? When you are
               | using little bandwith every now ans then this service
               | could be the better option. Not saying it is better for
               | every use case, but I can see situations where it is more
               | practical and easier to use (no subscriptions to cancel)
        
         | Crosseye_Jack wrote:
         | Don't forget the per/hour connected price if you stayed
         | connected 24/7 for 30 days thats $14.40 + BW charges.
         | 
         | The only real use case I can foresee this for is for people who
         | might use a VPN for a few hours, a few times a month. With that
         | kind of usage pattern $10 (The min topup value by the look of
         | it) could last you a fair few months so works out cheaper than
         | some of the other mainstream VPN providers who offer a flat fee
         | service.
        
       | r_lee wrote:
       | $10 per month +$0.05 per connection +$0.02 per hour +$0.04 per GB
       | (I use about 300 GB)
       | 
       | So in total: $10 + about $12 + $1.5 (30x connections per day) =
       | $23.5 per month
       | 
       | Mullvad is $5.
       | 
       | Using the big 3 for a VPN is suicide. You do not want to host a
       | business based on bandwidth on those.
       | 
       | A cool tech demo but definitely not viable as a business.
       | 
       | Also, why a California LLC?
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | I don't think it is $10 per month. Is whatever you use: $0.05
         | per connection +$0.02 per hour +$0.04 per GB.
         | 
         | $10 is the minium you can add to your account, and then it
         | deducts from there.
        
         | water9 wrote:
         | Because paying taxes is fun
        
         | croddin wrote:
         | I read it as $10 is the minimum to add to your account not a
         | monthly fee, so just $13.5 for you and potentially cheaper than
         | mullvad for light users, is that correct?
        
         | hnav wrote:
         | Who cares if it's on big 3? If it takes off and they start
         | getting charged 10c/GB, after about 10-20k spend for the month
         | they'll be paying about 5c/GB so close to breaking even. More
         | importantly, at that point they'll have a business with 10s of
         | thousands of revenue which is an opportunity to either
         | 
         | - work on minimizing the cost and carve out a margin
         | 
         | - go to VC and say "hey I have this VPN service, people seem to
         | like it"
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Because if you come out of their IP space every major website
           | assumes you are a bot and will start slamming you with
           | obnoxious CAPCHAs and sometimes just outright block access.
        
             | packetlost wrote:
             | That's pretty much a given on any VPN service provider
             | though. What's your point?
        
             | hnav wrote:
             | Right, and then OP can bring their /24 to AWS or migrate
             | the data plane off onto a less known provider?
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | _Is_ there a per-month charge?
         | 
         | I know the pricing page says "Prepaid starting at $10" but
         | isn't that just the minimum top up?
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | Mullvad is awesome, but it's not even about the price.
        
           | pierat wrote:
           | Bunches I know are fleeing Mullvad due to their 'no port
           | forwarding" policy now in effect.
           | 
           | ProtonVPN still allows forwarding and is what quite a few
           | fellow pie-rats are now using.
           | 
           | Mullvad is dead.
        
       | chrisallick wrote:
       | Does it work on airplanes and websites that actively detect/deny
       | vpn servers? any ad block features?
        
       | boomskats wrote:
       | I know you're taking a lot of shit from everyone else on this
       | thread, but you should know that your landing page and onboarding
       | experience are absolutely flawless, and that you've just made at
       | least $10.
        
         | gigapotential wrote:
         | Thank you! This is my favorite comment. I love your support!
         | 
         | Taking any feedback and criticism is part of being on Hacker
         | News.
        
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