[HN Gopher] Sam Bankman-Fried fails to dismiss criminal charges ...
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       Sam Bankman-Fried fails to dismiss criminal charges related to FTX
        
       Author : Anon84
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2023-06-27 21:01 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
        
       | mdotk wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | vkou wrote:
       | The judge's reasoning brings up an interesting fact about
       | extradition.
       | 
       | 1. SBF _agreed_ (voluntarily!) to be extradited from the Bahamas
       | to face ~X charges in the US.
       | 
       | 2. After being extradited, he was charged with X + Y charges.
       | 
       | 3. He claims that international extradition agreements make this
       | illegal.
       | 
       | 4. The judge ruled that, <citing precedent>, international
       | extradition agreements allow the _Bahamas_ to raise a complaint
       | about this - but does not allow SBF to do so [1].
       | 
       | 5. US prosecutors have expressed that they are willing to drop
       | the Y charges if the Bahamas raises a complaint in a timely
       | fashion.
       | 
       | 6. The Bahamas are incredibly unlikely to raise a complaint on
       | this point.
       | 
       | tl;dr - Expensive lawyers can _force_ government prosecutors to
       | dot all their is and cross their ts, but if they have you dead to
       | rights, you 're still screwed. SBF seems really, really screwed.
       | 
       | [1] These parts of extradition treaties are generally very
       | explicitly about the rights of _countries_ , not the rights of
       | _individuals_.
        
         | AceJohnny2 wrote:
         | Not being sympathetic to SBF here, but that's quite the legal
         | _gotcha_.
         | 
         | No wonder people don't trust the law/lawyers.
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | > SBF seems really, really screwed.
         | 
         | It still astonishes me how deluded he was by his own reality
         | distortion field. He continued to incriminate himself
         | _repeatedly_ after it was clear to everybody else that he
         | needed to stop digging the hole he was in.
         | 
         | Just breathtaking levels of PR and legal naivete.
        
           | golergka wrote:
           | Yet one another person with 130 IQ who thinks he's 150 IQ.
        
             | YawningAngel wrote:
             | I'm not even sure he's above average, it seems to me like
             | he could have closed down Alameda, hired some compliance
             | professionals to bring FTX into compliance with the law,
             | and been a) a billionaire and b) not in jail for his
             | trouble. He seems to be really pretty thick
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | Of course. Those with good levels of PR, legal advice, and
           | friends in power, can do worse and get a slap on the wrist.
        
         | babyshake wrote:
         | > 1. SBF agreed to be extradited from the Bahamas to face ~X
         | charges in the US.
         | 
         | Would it be more accurate to say that the Bahamas agreed to
         | extradite SBF? If not, then it doesn't make sense why the
         | Bahamas would need to complain about the additional charges
         | instead of SBF if they weren't involved in the agreement.
         | 
         | Although FWIW SBF is the last person who should be complaining
         | about having the rug pulled from under them.
        
           | LatteLazy wrote:
           | Not op but...
           | 
           | He agreed to be extradited voluntarily.
           | 
           | https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/19/business/sbf-extradition-
           | baha...
        
           | danielfoster wrote:
           | SBF agreed to waive his right to fight extradition from the
           | Bahamas in Bahamian court. This let the Bahamas make an
           | agreement to extradite him.
        
       | Anon84 wrote:
       | https://archive.md/BtHKc
        
       | EA-3167 wrote:
       | A good lawyer always tries, but with SBF as a client you need a
       | miracle worker, not an attorney.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | NovaDudely wrote:
         | My partner was once one jury duty, said it was the most boring
         | case ever because both sides basically agreed. The client was
         | bonkers and they just needed to determine the punishment. When
         | the folks you hire to defend you realise it is a situation
         | worse than Sisyphus, you are going to do time.
        
           | tnecniv wrote:
           | This is a fairly common scenario for defense attorneys.
           | 
           | I needed a lawyer for a misdemeanor charge (cop was having a
           | bad day, the other cops that arrived on the scene seemed like
           | they would have let me off with a warning but it was not
           | their call). I was certainly guilty by the letter of the law
           | and had no defense but the lawyer I was referred to from a
           | friend of a friend negotiated with the prosecution and I
           | plead guilty to a civil ordinance violation for disturbing
           | the peace (basically a traffic ticket). He was able to do
           | that because he knew what to bargain for based off of similar
           | cases in my state.
           | 
           | However, if it doesn't get worked out pre-trial, that
           | negotiation process still happens in the court room. When I
           | met my lawyer, he mentioned a recent case he handled where
           | the defendant had committed murder. There was no question
           | that he did it, but the lawyer was proud that he was able to
           | convince the court that his defendant was not of sound mind,
           | which was the difference between going untreated and spending
           | twenty-to-life in a state prison or spending that time
           | getting treatment in a mental ward. While the latter isn't
           | exactly a cushy place to be, it is certainly better than
           | being mentally unstable in gen pop.
        
           | yodsanklai wrote:
           | > they just needed to determine the punishment
           | 
           | Well, this is a pretty big. You don't want to serve more time
           | than what is required, this is why we have lawyers.
        
           | HWR_14 wrote:
           | If the case was "is this person insane", it's not basically
           | agreeing at all.
        
         | LatteLazy wrote:
         | With him you need payment in advance...
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | I think I could bend time and space before I could get charges
         | against SBF dismissed.
        
           | sebzim4500 wrote:
           | Honestly a presidential pardon is the only hope at this
           | point. He's donated to democrats so there is precedent[1].
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich
        
             | paulpauper wrote:
             | zero hope of pardon here. it's not like one can argue that
             | his likely sentence is too punitive relative to the crime
             | or not cut and dry.
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | Pardons are up to the individual president and Biden is
             | notoriously stingy with them. He's only granted 6 out of
             | thousands of petitions, mostly for drug charges. For
             | context, Trump granted 237, many for securities fraud and
             | related crimes. Obama granted 212 pardons for all sorts of
             | things, but generally preferred commutations (>1700).
        
       | julianz wrote:
       | Non-paywalled version from Reuters:
       | https://www.reuters.com/legal/bankman-fried-loses-bid-toss-c...
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-27 23:01 UTC)