[HN Gopher] Show HN: Flux Copilot - Generative AI for hardware d...
___________________________________________________________________
Show HN: Flux Copilot - Generative AI for hardware design
Author : rock_hard
Score : 71 points
Date : 2023-06-27 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.flux.ai)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.flux.ai)
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| I would think this might have a future as a local plugin, but
| there is more to laying out a complex board than routing so I see
| "in browser" and see science project not tool for business.
| rock_hard wrote:
| Humblebrag: You'd be surprised how many of the most serious
| businesses have started to migrate to use Flux already!
|
| Agree though that there is more to creating complex boards that
| automated wiring...we are not done here, just taking it step by
| step!
| TT-392 wrote:
| I wonder, how many of those are software companies that also
| do some hardware, and how many of those are like, proper EE
| companies. Electrical engineers tend to be really stubborn
| about their tools after all.
| rock_hard wrote:
| The list includes a bunch of hardware companies and teams
| that most/all would agree are the most sophisticated in the
| world
|
| Hardware engineers get a bad rep for being stubborn when
| what they actual want is just good tools...and we believe
| they deserve them and so we are building them!
| AHOHA wrote:
| So pretty much AI now can do anything except that "conscious"
| link between them. So an AI can write the software for drone
| autopilot for example ..(missing link).. and design the hardware
| for that drone ..(missing link).. and simulate all that
| ..(missing link).. to fly that drone autonomously ..(missing
| link).. to fulfill the objectives.
|
| Unless something new fill these links properly, guess us human
| kinds are still needed :)
| samstave wrote:
| tHE ("MISSING LINK") part appears to be 'iterative corrections'
| - or "yes, that, but... now adjust here"
|
| What will be interesting is when you train a single doo-dad and
| it propagates to all the others (100 AI Monkey Syndrome) --
| which then allows them to start self-normalizing and trainign
| eachothers ;
|
| Get on-line and learn from your brethren (humans used to call
| these 'updates' - ugh, how *pedestrian*) [*pun intended*]
| adamwong246 wrote:
| Software making hardware making software. How long till someone
| wires it all up to a chat bot and lets it loose? We're reaching
| the point where it's feasible to create, more or less, autonomous
| AI entities. It's doable today, if you have the money and are so
| inclined, and it gets cheaper everyday.
| throwuwu wrote:
| Missing a few steps like money and being able to open the
| delivery box and assemble the parts. It's kind of like that
| Sagan quote about making an apple pie from scratch.
| adamwong246 wrote:
| But like, IS it really that hard? Money is easy enough to
| provide, presuming we can run this machine at a loss (for
| now) and humans can fill in the last-mile. Even box-opening
| can be automated soon. I think it's within reach of a
| sufficiently motivated and funded grad student. Certainly
| within the reach of Mr Bezos.
| throwuwu wrote:
| Not arguing with that. My point is that the gap between
| humans helping it and it being fully autonomous is much
| bigger than you would think. Even if you design a system
| with a bunch of robotic arms and other equipment, the AI
| then has to be able to replicate and install somewhere else
| that entire set up using only what it currently has or can
| assemble with its current facilities. That's a really big
| challenge!
| by_Seeing wrote:
| For all my Stargate fans out there, this is how you get
| replicators
| rock_hard wrote:
| Founder here:
|
| Super excited to make another big step today to democratize
| electronics design!
|
| Hit me with your questions
| pseudosudoer wrote:
| Hey Matthias, I'm curious whether/how you validate copilot
| output suggestions. Software bugs from generative AI can at
| least be reasonably tested for by developers, but it's
| certainly much more difficult to catch subtle bugs in hardware.
| rock_hard wrote:
| Great question
|
| It's something we spend a lot of time thinking about. On one
| side we want to prevent hallucinations but on the other we
| want to keep the LLMs creativeness
|
| We are experimenting with a bunch of different approaches
| here already
|
| Preventing hallucinations and therefore improving correctness
| is fairly simple by providing the model with factual data
| sources which is something we are working on
|
| The challenge is to balance that so that the model is also
| still creative when you want it to...but we are making
| progress here too
|
| If you are interested ping us in our slack and we can add you
| to our beta tester channel to get access to our experiments
| in this space
| stbtrax wrote:
| Who is the target audience? It seems like experienced EEs would
| know most of this stuff. Complete beginners would just not have
| sufficient context. Is there some middle of the road
| electronics hobbyists that you are targeting?
| rock_hard wrote:
| We have found engineers across the spectrum to find huge
| value
|
| From the engineers that design the motherboard of the phone
| in your pocket to students and hobbyists
|
| Use case go from learning/explanation to brainstorming,
| component research, figuring out the match for signal
| filters, to triaging of issues and so on.
| markwu2001 wrote:
| ai can build its own body now
| avsteele wrote:
| A few weeks ago I was going yo start learning how to use PCB
| design software.
|
| Flux seemed really cool and I gave it a try but couldn't get
| going well enough to continue. Here are my impressions:
|
| ## Key features and my impressions (as of 4/29/23):
|
| - Interaction - Browser based
| - Buggy in Firefox, don't try it (simulation failed to converge)
| - Versioning (ala git) - Collaboration
| - Multiple people can work on a circuit at once
| - can also give a link to share a circuit with limited
| permissions - AI assistant -
| Appears to have no specific knowledge of Flux? When I asked it
| question about running the code it didn't know I was asking about
| Flux even.
|
| - Schematics - Has a large library of parts?
| - UI is a little clunky for common task like rotating elements
| but it gets the job done
|
| - Circuit Simulation - does not support
| plotting - can't find a way to parametrize a
| simulation - Can affect appearance of schematic or
| PCB model: e.g.: the LED In the schematic or 3D model will light
| up / be dark depending on the state determined by the simulation.
| (this doesn't help me get my work doe but it is cool/pretty)
| - Can press a button on the schematic and see its effects via the
| sim
|
| - API - Supports manipulation of the circuit via code (looks like
| #javascript) - I haven't used it much, and
| their \*example\* was non-functional (?!)
|
| - PCB design - Linked directly to the schematic
| so if you change a part there it changes on the PCB
| - Has a very nice looking 3D mode/view of the circuit
|
| I wound up using KiCad for design and www.circuitlab.com for
| simulation.
| osigurdson wrote:
| Maybe a more reasonable sweet spot for (today's) AI would be a
| "data sheet" expert. Ask questions like "what kind of part does
| X, what is the minimum volume order and unit price".
| rock_hard wrote:
| Fully agree!
|
| It's something we are working on among other things
| rock_hard wrote:
| Thanks for giving us a shot and the feedback!
|
| We are still at day one here...lots of work ahead clearly!
|
| On simulation: we have lots more to come here but work took a
| bit of a back burner as we have been focusing on PCB layout
| recently!
|
| On AI: just getting our feed wet...but access to our docs is in
| the QA pipeline here and should hopefully land soon
|
| Let me know if you wanna hop on a call...would love to learn
| more details about your usecases and how we can do better
| avsteele wrote:
| I am a neophyte, but sure you can email me. see my profile.
| londons_explore wrote:
| I added a test[1] to OpenAI Evals that showed that GPT-4 doesn't
| have an awful lot of understanding of most component datasheets
| in the training set. It only got ~16% of my questions correct -
| and all questions could be answered by a domain expert with
| access to the datasheet.
|
| Example question: You are to answer each given question with a
| single number, with no extra characters or units. Round every
| answer to one significant figure. A IRF540N transistor has an
| R_DS(ON) of what, in Ohms, at V_GS=10v?
|
| Answer: 0.04
|
| [1]:
| https://github.com/Hello1024/evals/blob/4e9bbce1390ce427acb1...
| jptlnk wrote:
| hey, I'm the lead engineer on this project! I love that you did
| this :)
|
| our experience thus far is that GPT4 definitely needs help when
| it comes to datasheet-like data. it's great at broad
| "functional" strokes, but details and particularly numerical
| details are not its forte.
|
| we're working on it!
| londons_explore wrote:
| I think the real solution is to manually convert component
| datasheets to spice models (I think there are already
| commercial databases of these), simulate the circuit, and
| then get a language model like GPT-4 propose changes to the
| circuit to make it perform better.
|
| The real question becomes how to interface the spice model
| and the language model - do you for example let it connect a
| virtual oscilloscope to any node, and give the language model
| the results back as plain numbers?
| rock_hard wrote:
| Our thinking has been the same
|
| Give the LLM the ability to run the simulator and optimize
| the solution based on the outputs
|
| Lots of amazing opportunities ahead
| amelius wrote:
| Isn't Copilot a protected name in this context?
| by_Seeing wrote:
| The copilots of copilotai.com, educationcopilot.com,
| workwithpod.com, arcwise.app, xmind.ai, usegalileo.ai,
| copilotly.com, up.codes, and moveworks.com have entered the
| chat.
| TT-392 wrote:
| So far I got it to hallucinate me a formula, which gave me half
| the frequency I asked for on a 555 circuit. Also, I got it to
| connect the data lines on a usb C port to a micro, but it only
| connected A7(D-) and B6(D+), which doesn't seem ideal. Also, it
| forgot about termination resistors, which, like, for usb 2.0,
| stuff will probably work without them, but not ideal.
|
| This tool seems like a nice way to recommend parts, but I don't
| think I'd trust it with much of the actual design.
|
| From what I have seen from AI so far. The only place I can see
| this level of AI being really useful, would be a place like
| digikey. Like, as an alternative to parametric search.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-06-27 23:03 UTC)