[HN Gopher] Semantic MediaWiki
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       Semantic MediaWiki
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2023-06-24 20:22 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.semantic-mediawiki.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.semantic-mediawiki.org)
        
       | nologic01 wrote:
       | Semantic technologies, linked data never really delivered. The
       | "Semantic" aspect was in sense a hyped, exaggerated term, long
       | before ML/AI hypes became regular abusers of linguistic precision
       | at the service of marketing.
       | 
       | But had they been adopted for what they are: well defined
       | metadata according to vocabularies and ontologies that following
       | accepted, interoperable standards, the development of ground
       | truth and knowledge graphs would have been much more advanced
       | that the current state.
       | 
       | So my guess is that projects like semantic mediawiki, wikibase
       | etc will eventually see renewed roles and gradually link with the
       | more statistical and algorithmic processing of information.
        
       | facu17y wrote:
       | This project reminds me of this now-ancient blog post by
       | @marcfawzi from the Evolving Trends blog (does not seem to be
       | maintained):
       | 
       | https://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/2006/06/26/wikipedia-30...
       | 
       | It took more decades and the arrival of Transformers and self-
       | attention (see Attention is All You Need) for the "End of Google"
       | (the search engine, not the company) to become a reality.
       | 
       | I was able to find Marc on Twitter: https://twitter.com/marcfawzi
       | 
       | Seems to have picked up his old idea of a geek-run VC fund, but
       | using AI: https://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/2006/06/21/geek-
       | run-gee...
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | When I was first working on distributed "semantic" Web+HCI+AI
       | stuff, in the late '90s, nobody was concerned with monetizing --
       | you just did useful or interesting things, and the money will be
       | figured out eventually.
       | 
       | Today, the first thoughts that comes to my mind aren't what my
       | work could do with this information, but more about
       | sustainability, accuracy, and power.
       | 
       | A bunch of huge companies are going to hoover up all the data
       | you've compiled, and use it in such a way that most people using
       | it will never see your Web site.
       | 
       | So won't be prompted to contribute back wiki-style, won't get all
       | the benefit of your quality control, won't see your donation
       | appeals, won't know you exist, won't see the other things that
       | you would like to see, won't give you analytics on your impact,
       | won't fund you with ad impressions, etc.
       | 
       | Which might all be OK for your use case, but over time it could
       | break most of the current useful percentage of the Web.
        
       | detaro wrote:
       | Would love to hear people's experience with it, especially for
       | more complex things. Seen it used a few times to add consistent
       | metadata to pages (through forms), but never much built on top of
       | such basics.
        
         | dankilman wrote:
         | The guild wars 2 wiki makes great use of it imo
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | Perhaps surprisingly, it isn't particularly useful for general
         | encyclopedias like Wikipedia. Real life is messy; it doesn't
         | always reduce cleanly to a set of key/value pairs.
         | 
         | Where extensions like SMW really shine is for wikis which
         | discuss highly structured content, like content in video games.
         | Another extension which I've seen used in this space is Cargo
         | [1].
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cargo
        
         | RicoElectrico wrote:
         | Check out WikiChip for an example of it.
         | https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/WikiChip
        
         | resolutebat wrote:
         | Around 10 years ago I experimented with this to try to create a
         | geographical hierarchy of articles in a wiki.
         | 
         | It was, in a nutshell, not great: there's a fundamental
         | contradiction between wikis, which are very loosely structured
         | and edited by humans who do all sorts of wacky unpredictable
         | shit, and hierarchies, which need to be carefully pruned and
         | maintained.
         | 
         | So this use case didn't work, and I think it's telling that
         | (AFAIK) not a single Wikipedia project has adopted it.
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | as duskwuff said, wikipedia projects are a very open scope,
           | that'd be hard to model. So I really wonder if there are any
           | complex (but not as-complex-as-wikipedia) expamples people
           | had success with.
        
       | hirundo wrote:
       | "The purpose of SMW is to allow users to improve the structure
       | and organization of the knowledge in a wiki by adding simple,
       | machine-processable information to wiki articles."
       | 
       | With LLMs those tags have suddenly become a lot cheaper to make.
       | Arguably their cost was the largest barrier to the semantic web
       | vision. But now it may already be practical to semantically
       | markup wikipedia content automatically as submitted. But does AI
       | moot the semantic web, or enable it? Is the semantic layer
       | redundant with an AI interface? I can't predict.
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-24 23:00 UTC)