[HN Gopher] Initiative to connect all European capitals through ...
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       Initiative to connect all European capitals through a high-speed
       train network
        
       Author : nixass
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2023-06-23 18:30 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (eci.ec.europa.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (eci.ec.europa.eu)
        
       | goodbyesf wrote:
       | Wouldn't it be better to connect major european economic and
       | cultural centers? Also, I doubt they are going to connect to
       | dublin or reykjavik. So not all.
        
         | bojan wrote:
         | In most countries of Europe, the capitals _are_ major economic
         | and cultural centers of their respective countries.
         | 
         | Actually I can't really think of a country where that's not the
         | case - only countries with a very strong second city.
        
       | malermeister wrote:
       | More trains are great, but whai really needed is a unified, EU-
       | wide booking system.
       | 
       | Currently, each operator has their own site, with its own pricing
       | structure and sometimes its own loyalty bonuses. Cross-border
       | trains sometimes have dramatically different prices when you buy
       | tickets in the origin vs destination country.
       | 
       | But worst of all, you often can't buy _one_ ticket for complex
       | routes across Europe, as you can with flights. Instead, you 're
       | forced to piece it together yourself from individual tickets. The
       | problem with this is that since you haven't bought a ticket from
       | anyone _for the entire route_ , it's your own responsibility if a
       | train is delayed and you miss your connection. Until we fix this,
       | trains will never be a viable option for many trips.
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | > EU-wide booking system.
         | 
         | Maybe they can achieve what we had in America back in the 60's
         | with SABRE [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_Corporation
        
           | malermeister wrote:
           | So there's actually Amadeus, which is the biggest provider in
           | that category worldwide, based out of Madrid:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeus_CRS
           | 
           | However, train travel isn't really properly integrated as far
           | as I can tell.
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | https://www.raileurope.com/ might provide some of this.
         | 
         | (I haven't really needed it myself, the longest journeys I've
         | made have only covered two countries at most.)
        
       | madcaptenor wrote:
       | I feel like this would be a lot better with a map of the proposed
       | network, and some statistics on how much faster it would make
       | common journeys.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | Here's the explanation with a map (couldn't resist):
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/Yyj5cv5FPWA
        
         | bobthepanda wrote:
         | It looks like a petition to figure it out, not a plan
        
       | pestatije wrote:
       | EU initiative...i guess they mean all EU capitals...i wish they
       | would stop appropriating the whole continent for themselves
        
         | bojan wrote:
         | It says explicitly "all European capitals". London for example
         | is already connected.
        
       | veave wrote:
       | Interesting how we are going backwards, from planes to trains.
        
         | sempron64 wrote:
         | It's not backwards, high speed rail was invented in the 60s
         | with the shinkansen, about the same time as the modern
         | airliner.
        
         | dontlaugh wrote:
         | Trains are far more energy efficient than planes, so we're
         | going forwards. If we actually do get more better cheaper
         | trains.
        
           | erikpukinskis wrote:
           | This seems like an impossible claim to me. Surely it depends
           | on many factors, off the top of my head:
           | 
           | - the occupancy of the trip
           | 
           | - the distance
           | 
           | - the number of stops
           | 
           | - the form of "last mile" transportation required
           | 
           | - the age and model of the vehicle
           | 
           | - the specific fuel source
           | 
           | I mean, I believe the statistic is true in aggregate. It's
           | like saying "vegan food has lower carbon emissions" which is
           | true in aggregate. But wild game is often astronomically
           | lower emissions (not to mention lower cruelty) than typical
           | vegan food.
           | 
           | So these aggregate statistics are interesting points to
           | ponder, but we don't live in aggregate. We eat specific foods
           | and we travel specific routes.
           | 
           | And at the individual level these statistics become... well
           | not "mostly false" but certainly "frequently false".
           | 
           | To me, the base statistic is a great starting point but the
           | next questions we need to ask is: when are flights lower
           | emission? When is hunting more humane? Etc. That's how we can
           | really drive better individual decisions. "Just ride the
           | train and eat vegan" won't get us to a globally sufficient
           | decision framework.
        
             | Shawnj2 wrote:
             | High speed Trains in Europe generally win on most of these
             | since they're usually electric trains with minimal stops
             | between city centers.
        
             | stuaxo wrote:
             | I mean, an electric train that goes to the middle of the
             | city or town you are going to and then a walk or a bus or
             | taxi at the other end, it's no comparison really.
             | 
             | If you don't have a car you choose where to live based on
             | this, when I used to commute I always lived never more than
             | 7 minutes walk from a station.
        
         | pornel wrote:
         | Back to the old days of having quick boarding without a crotch
         | scan, having plenty of legroom, normal-size restrooms, and a
         | restaurant car.
         | 
         | And you travel from city center to city center, rather than
         | middle-of-nowheres named after a city.
        
           | emptysongglass wrote:
           | In my experience across the US and the EU, most of the time
           | they're late so there's a lot of idle waiting.
        
           | veave wrote:
           | Crotch scan doesn't happen in the EU, and the rest doesn't
           | matter if you can get there much faster.
           | 
           | >And you travel from city center to city center, rather than
           | middle-of-nowheres named after a city.
           | 
           | When you land you can rent a car... when you arrive on a
           | train you are forced to either pay for a taxi or take pub...
           | pu... public transportation
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | I for one appreciate bar cars.
             | 
             | Also it's not always much faster. Italy's high speed
             | network eventually won with their national airline. And no
             | wonder - a trip going halfway across the peninsula takes
             | roughly as much time, but is generally more pleasant.
        
       | bettercallsalad wrote:
       | I have travelled through Europe quite extensively. IMO cheap
       | flights like Ryanair and Wizz beat train hands down - pricewise
       | especially if you are carrying light luggage and also because
       | most airports are now connected from city center by train in
       | Europe (something which is a huge issue in US making you rely on
       | your own transport or taxi.)
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > I have travelled through Europe quite extensively. IMO cheap
         | flights like Ryanair and Wizz beat train hands down
         | 
         | Europe is fighting hard short haul flights, many of which are
         | now just plain down illegal. Several countries, including
         | France, have already banned short haul flights of less than
         | 2h30.
         | 
         | I see this "high speed trains" push as related to the attack by
         | the EU on short haul flights.
         | 
         | So no matter if we find that cheap flights do beat trains hands
         | down or not, in a near future there may not be any choice: and
         | the choice seems like it's going to be train.
        
           | switch007 wrote:
           | * * *
        
       | deepthunder wrote:
       | High Speed Rail is expensive. Wouldn't be better to put the money
       | towards Regional local services instead?
        
         | stuaxo wrote:
         | By building dedicated lines you free up space on regional
         | lines.
        
       | kyriakos wrote:
       | Valetta and Nicosia will be fun to connect
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-23 23:02 UTC)