[HN Gopher] VisionOS developer docs and Vision Pro SDK
___________________________________________________________________
VisionOS developer docs and Vision Pro SDK
Author : andsoitis
Score : 141 points
Date : 2023-06-22 13:26 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (developer.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (developer.apple.com)
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| But so do I have to buy one with my own money if I want to
| develop for it ?
| chabes wrote:
| You don't need an iPhone or iPad to develop iOS apps. A
| traditional computer should work fine, I would think.
| y7 wrote:
| Don't you need a Mac to run Xcode?
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| << Don't you need a Mac to run Xcode?
|
| To the best of my understanding, there are ways around
| it[1].
|
| https://www.baeldung.com/linux/xcode
| saagarjha wrote:
| Darling definitely does not support the simulator.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| And in very limited geographic areas you can use Apple's
| devices for testing
|
| _> Next month, Apple will open developer labs in Cupertino,
| London, Munich, Shanghai, Singapore, and Tokyo to provide
| developers with hands-on experience to test their apps on
| Apple Vision Pro hardware and get support from Apple
| engineers. Development teams will also be able to apply for
| developer kits to help them quickly build, iterate, and test
| right on Apple Vision Pro._
|
| Wonder what those dev kits cost and how available they'll be.
| Apple probably doesn't anyone getting their hands on the
| early hardware/software using it for reviews before it's
| released.
|
| Presumably you return it after release and get the money
| rolled over toward purchasing a production unit.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| They won't sell dev kits, only given to very select big co
| who has has a lot to lose if they break NDA. Mean time use
| the simulator in xcode15 beta2
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| But testing it without the actual device would be not ideal
| andsoitis wrote:
| There's a simulator, like others have said. What do you
| expect? Apple handing out free devices to developers?
| cubefox wrote:
| For upcoming videogame consoles, manufacturers do indeed
| hand out preproduction hardware to developers.
| Gunnerhead wrote:
| Do they for indy game developers or just large game
| studios? Genuinely curious.
| klausa wrote:
| The console devkits are _absolutely_ not free, apart from
| maybe first party studios.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I remember the company I was at having to shell out $20k
| for the PSP emulator back when it was a thing. It was a
| dedicated computer with a tethered cable connecting to a
| PSP where the optical drive would normally be located.
| After that experience, I just assumed that was SOP for
| companies with pre-release units like that.
| cfn wrote:
| If the simulator is as good as the iOS' simulators then you
| must test your app in a device or you will be flooded with
| bug reports at launch day. As noted elsewhere, Apple is
| setting up labs in some cities, everyone else needs to buy
| the device or cross fingers and hope for the best.
|
| BTW, Android is not as bad because there are emulators, not
| just simulators (that is my understanding for the
| disparity).
| Jemm wrote:
| Apple had the opportunity to make Vision OS more accessible.
| Instead they chose default gestures that require two hands.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| Default gestures are irrelevant. Apple always puts a huge
| effort into accessibility for their platforms. You are
| condemning the accessibility based on a tiny preview. No need
| to be concerned. They will have plenty of accessible options
| for using the device.
| jeromegv wrote:
| They are typically ahead of the curve when it comes to
| accessibility feature on iOS. It's very well possible they will
| have Accessibility options to offer alternatives to those.
| etchalon wrote:
| They discussed those options in the WWDC session. They're
| fairly extensive, including support voice, head movements,
| and alternate hand movements.
| d35007 wrote:
| Here's an article that discusses accessibility features in
| VisionOS: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/07/apple-vision-
| pro-access.... It's a summary of a WWDC session that I haven't
| watched. One of the items in the article says
|
| > Dwell Control will provide on-screen options for Tap, Scroll,
| Long Press, and Drag, allowing for users to interact with the
| interface without using their hands.
|
| Does the article address any of your concerns?
| samsolomon wrote:
| Also, the VisionOS component library is available in Figma
| Community. Was playing around with it last night. It's a pretty
| comprehensive library.
|
| https://www.figma.com/community/file/1253443272911187215
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| > Create custom gestures
|
| It's upon reading these words that I realized that every computer
| I've owned was missing the ability to flip the bird to
| application windows as a means of force quitting. I'm not ashamed
| to admit that I'm anticipating that feature.
| johnwheeler wrote:
| Good way to end zoom calls as well of course
| m3kw9 wrote:
| I'm sure you could set that up in accessibility settings as iOS
| did
| graypegg wrote:
| I would love to see the internationalization work done for
| that! Even better, an i18n package for identifying gestures!
| I'll flip off Apple Mail, but please let me give Chrome an "up
| yours".
| bbor wrote:
| By far the most interesting admission from a brief flip-through:
| Consider how environmental factors impact your app. The
| characteristics of your physical environment can affect system
| load and thermals of the device. Consider the effect that ambient
| room temperature, the presence of other people, and the number
| and type of real-world objects can have on the your app's
| algorithms.
|
| The fact that they're so prominently focusing on this seems like
| a soft indication that this device (at least in V1?) is not
| suited for exercise or sunny outdoor use. Which makes sense, but
| adds some finality to a "will people use these outside/in public"
| discussion I was having on here last week
| mustacheemperor wrote:
| Brings up memories of trying to run the HoloLens 1 on job sites
| in the northeast during the summer. Standing in the shade, you
| could get an hour out of it. Step into direct sunlight, power's
| off in minutes until it can sit in the A/C.
| cubefox wrote:
| Yeah, and a maximum of two hours battery life indicates the
| same. In the presentation they also showed indoor usage only.
| jonathan_oberg wrote:
| And in the simulator, six different scenarios. All appear to
| be inside (office, living room, etc.).
| solarkraft wrote:
| they did show video footage taken with it outside though,
| didn't they?
| brandonhopkins wrote:
| [flagged]
| nailer wrote:
| I'm not an apple person but I do think the eye tracking to focus
| / pinch the air to activate combo is very natural and
| significantly different to what meta, HTC etc are doing. I think
| this might be the turning point for AR/VR.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >I'm not an apple person but I do think the eye tracking to
| focus / pinch the air to activate combo is very natural and
| significantly different to what meta, HTC etc are doing. I
| think this might be the turning point for AR/VR.
|
| From getting started in 2015 with the DK2, I've held from the
| very beginning that controllers are a dead end for VR. I've
| given countless demos where people are just completely confused
| because it's so unnatural and awkward, and it adds to the
| overall cognitive load to the point of destroying presence.
| Sure competent gamers can figure it out in a few minutes, but
| that's not the point. You don't interact with the world using
| triggers and buttons. You interact with the word by interacting
| with it. The controllers need to go away.
| throwuwu wrote:
| Reads a bit like when people would complain about having to
| use a mouse back in the late 80s / early 90s.
|
| There's ton of stuff you'll never be able to do in VR without
| some kind of controller with buttons and joy sticks. Making
| the controllers smaller, lighter, more ergonomic and fairly
| standardized is the natural path forward. People who grow up
| with VR and games won't have a problem.
| zmmmmm wrote:
| it's a huge adoption barrier though
|
| The problem is the best apps attach all sorts of weird
| things to weird buttons.
|
| I've given plenty of novices a try of a headset and it's a
| train wreck with them accidentally pushing buttons every
| which way that completely destroy whatever setup you've
| done. My favorite is devs like to make the "grip" buttons
| (on the side where your middle finger rests) shift the
| frame or scale of world (eg: OpenBrush does this). It's
| super natural once you know what you are doing, but give
| that to a novice and it's incredibly hard for them to learn
| to _not grip_ the controllers. They cling on to them like
| crazy and the whole world is spinning around and they
| immediately tell you they are disoriented and nauseated and
| hate VR.
| jkubicek wrote:
| This could be solved by having well-designed interface
| guidelines and have those guidelines enforced by the
| company building the headset. If anyone is going to do
| that, it's Apple.
|
| I'm happy the VisionPro uses gestures to control the
| interface, but I also agree with the parent poster that
| we'll need hardware controls someday. No matter how good
| the gesture recognizers get, waving your hands in space
| is never going to be as good as having physical controls
| and buttons attached to your hands.
| jayd16 wrote:
| You don't interact with the real world with gaze and
| pinching. Do you think this gesture is also a dead end?
|
| For me, controllers are bad simply because your hands are
| full. You're giving up interacting with the real world to
| interact virtually. Having to figure out a remote control
| isn't all that insurmountable for the majority of the
| population but no one wants to hold a controller all day.
|
| The missing haptics and discrete button feedback is an issue
| with hand tracking though.
| iseanstevens wrote:
| Don't we interact via gaze and pinching every time we pick
| up a small object?
| jayd16 wrote:
| Where you must look at the object directly and perform a
| pinch click away from it? No.
| Simorgh wrote:
| Yes, that makes sense.
|
| A comparison could be drawn from the distinction between the
| Blackberry keyboard and the iPhone touch surface.
|
| Apple's design approach could well be aiming to make the Vision
| Pro feel as natural as possible.
| jayd16 wrote:
| Head/eye tracking as user input isn't really new in VR. In the
| past it has not felt very good. The pinch gesture in the
| Hololens was very unreliable. Its not natural that your gaze
| effects the world around you other than making eye contact with
| someone, perhaps. I think reaching out and gripping things is
| farm more _natural_.
|
| That said, the sensors and software in this headset might
| finally be up to the task. And despite being unnatural it might
| be easy enough to pick up.
| ShamelessC wrote:
| > I think reaching out and gripping things is farm more
| _natural_.
|
| Like when you grab a virtual object and it feels like you're
| grabbing absolutely nothing at all? This isn't natural and
| it's actually quite jarring in my experience.
| dansalvato wrote:
| I remember reading a first impressions post where they
| mentioned that starting off, they were instinctively reaching
| out and pinching the UI elements. They said it worked fine,
| because you're also looking at whatever you're pinching, and
| it only took a few minutes to adjust to keeping their hands
| in their lap.
|
| But I found it promising that the Vision Pro can see your
| hands in front of you as well, which should really help ease
| the learning curve, and prevent first-time users from feeling
| frustration with the UI.
| cubefox wrote:
| It seems to work great for 2D control where it works similar to
| a mouse or a touchscreen. But for 3D control outside floating
| screens it is a bit unclear whether it can compete with a
| proper 3D controller.
| no_wizard wrote:
| Note: I'm speculating here, not saying Apple Vision Pro can
| do any of this.
|
| If you could track hand movement 1:1 enough that interacting
| with a 3D space was as natural as it would be as if it was
| actually in front of you, the problem is definitely a solved
| one at that point. If Apple manages to do this at any point
| in the lifecycle of this product line, it'll be a significant
| breakthrough for this type of computing / experience
| ericlewis wrote:
| All controls for visionOS also have something called
| "direct touch" where if you reach out and press the button
| the button gets pressed!
|
| Further, you can absolutely make 3D objects able to be
| grabbed, thrown, resized, etc. and it is actually pretty
| simple to do.
| XorNot wrote:
| I'm very skeptical this is going to be nice to use.
| People barely tolerate touchscreens (i.e. phone yes,
| laptop - maybe, desktop - no).
|
| This is a button which has no physical presence at all.
| csk111165 wrote:
| Can I build or write code in a Windows Machine? I don't have Mac
| as of now.
| howinteresting wrote:
| Apple extracts a massive developer tax in the form of 400%
| markups on storage and absurd pricing on RAM as well. Sorry.
| ronsor wrote:
| That's not how the Apple ecosystem works
| grishka wrote:
| You can try hackintosh. Depending on your hardware, it may work
| anywhere from great to not at all.
| thyselius wrote:
| Yeah Xcode on Hackintosh works (at least when I used it a few
| years ago)
| jkubicek wrote:
| Developing against a beta API for an unreleased platform is
| going to be outrageously frustrating on a brand new MacBook,
| I can't imagine how infuriating it would be trying to do the
| same on a Hackintosh.
|
| If your goal is to hack around and try to get anything at all
| to work it might be fun, if your goal is to actually build a
| working VisionOS app, I'd probably suck it up and spend the
| $1000 on used MacBook.
| grishka wrote:
| If you do want a real Mac but want it cheap, a used Mac
| Mini would be a better option IMO.
| cududa wrote:
| I can't seem to get the simulator to boot up on my machine. It
| hung in the "verifying package" part, so I force quit the Xcode
| Beta, and couldn't get that screen to pop back up, even after
| "uninstalling" the beta.
|
| Anyone have any ideas?
| krmblg wrote:
| Tldr: create a new visionOS app from the menu, it'll prompt to
| download the support files correctly.
|
| Had a similar issue after doing the Xcode 15 beta 2 download
| with both iOS 17 and visionOS 1 simulator checked. When
| creating a new visionOS App it would tell me that I'm missing
| the device/simulator support and prompted to install it. After
| confirming this it would show a download for a build that ended
| in xxxxxxxg instead of xxxxxxxf as was part of the download, so
| I assume that part was updated in the background and now is no
| longer the correct reference.
|
| HTH
| saagarjha wrote:
| Restart?
| alkibiades wrote:
| so anyone got any good app ideas? wouldn't mind prototyping
| something
| elcritch wrote:
| Gamiyfing museums and historical locations!
|
| Years back I did a "startup training" weekend. My team decided
| to use my idea of gamifying museums and historical sights. The
| team was fun and had some good puns!
|
| I'd originally thought it'd be fun to play a version of the
| "floor is lava game" at the ruined temple where they partly
| filmed the Temple of Doom. I still wish I could do that
| someday! A sort of historical scavenger game would be really
| fun way to engage the history of the place.
| losvedir wrote:
| An eye tracking measuring app, so I can just look from corner
| to corner to corner and don't have to break out my measuring
| tape.
| jes5199 wrote:
| add a protractor and a compass too. maybe a level
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Some violent little game where it turns all occupants into
| zombies with real gore
| MikusR wrote:
| https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/
| https://applabgamelist.com/Best
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Turn your room into 1:1 scale and everything remodeled into
| over the top designs.
| reaperman wrote:
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/human-anatomy-atlas-2023/id111...
|
| https://anatomy3datlas.com
|
| This, but with movement. Also do pose detection on others or a
| mirror and see the organs move in a scientifically accurate
| way.
|
| ---------------------
|
| Bring real-world objects into VR but render them in the style
| of the scene which already exists. (99% sure not possible with
| this API). Basically, if I'm playing a flight simulator/etc, I
| want to be able to see my water bottle, keyboard, mouse, cell
| phone, etc so that I can easily grab them. But I don't want the
| immersion to be broken.
|
| ---------------------
|
| Track conversations I have with other people and use an LLM to
| remind me about the relevant conversation history we've had.
|
| ----------------------
| graypegg wrote:
| Silly little AR models maybe? The thing I've trying to cobble
| together at the moment is a flag waving simulator like
| https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver
|
| So custom image texture on a model with some animation, so you
| can checkout how a flag design would look when flying.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I was thinking of doing something simple and silly like a model
| of our solar system with the idea that you can get close ups to
| everything based on recent high res. images ( ok, maybe that
| part is not that simple ).
| classified wrote:
| Like, an AR version of Celestia. That would be great!
| wlesieutre wrote:
| A virtual planetarium like Stellarium could be pretty amazing
| in VR
| ohgodplsno wrote:
| Nothing can beat the sheer scale of Space Engine when it
| comes to VR space exploration experiences.
| dylan604 wrote:
| That was one of the very few apps they showed in the demo.
| zeristor wrote:
| This is starting to remind me of the Total Perspective Vortex
| from Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.
|
| I believe you needed to be insane, and drunk to survive it.
|
| On the flip side you do get a sense of the full size of the
| Universe.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Hmm, how about Simpson zoom out simulator, where you move
| further and further away only to end up back at cellular
| level again?:D
| briandear wrote:
| An app that solves dyslexia.
| crooked-v wrote:
| A virtual duck that wanders around, occasionally quacking. The
| quacking is appropriately muffled if the duck is 'behind' a
| real object.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Duck Hunt, but the duck is waddling around your house and you
| shoot at it with finger guns that make cartoon "BANG!"
| effects
| sgu999 wrote:
| and if you catch its eyes while looking confused, it runs to
| sit on your laps and ask you to explain to it what's wrong
| dylan604 wrote:
| A virtual cricket. The goal is to find it before you go
| insane
| Timon3 wrote:
| I will not use this unless it has a goose mode.
| scheeseman486 wrote:
| A virtual CRT simulator, emulating the various attributes of
| CRT displays. Shadow masks/aperture grilles, phosphor glow,
| bloom, geometric distortions. EmuVR does some of this already
| but it'd be a fun novelty to have such a thing in a AR headset
| with Vision Pro's resolution and other capabilities.
|
| The lack of a 60/120hz mode will cause inevitable stutter, but
| that's going to be the case with any 60hz content (24p will be
| fine due to the 96hz mode).
| cubefox wrote:
| The resolution of the Vision is probably not high enough for
| that. The Micro-OLED screens themselves are something like
| 4k, but that's stretched over the entire field of view. The
| CRT screen would cover just a small fraction of that.
| scheeseman486 wrote:
| Depend how close you are, the resolution of the CRT etc.
| There's also the temporal accumulation from the micro-
| movements the head makes, so you're never sampling a fixed
| grid.
|
| It's already quite effective in EmuVR even on lower end
| HMDs, get close enough to the virtual TVs and you can see
| the individual RGB phosphor dots. Moire is pretty bad at a
| distance though.
| sfpotter wrote:
| Nice. It's like a lame version of The Matrix. Instead of
| going to a fantastic and amazing virtual world I get to
| ~virtually~ be in the same room I'm already in but with a
| crappy CRT monitor. For the sake of nostalgia, I guess?
| scheeseman486 wrote:
| Nostalgia sure, but also preservation. CRTs have visual
| characteristics that flat panel monitors can't fully
| emulate, which matters in that a lot of media was created
| for display on them and only look correct when viewed that
| way, mostly old video games. Current AR headsets can't
| fully replicate it either, that'd require 1000hz+ high
| contrast screens so the beam scanout could be emulated. But
| it'd do a better job than a flat panel, particularly with
| CRT's more physical attributes like the thick curved glass
| and the layers underneath it.
|
| Or, I dunno, they could single-handedly port Half Life
| Alyx. But I feel like the virtual CRT thing is more
| manageable.
| cubefox wrote:
| CRT monitors had exceptional "motion clarity", because
| they worked more like a fast strobe light than displaying
| a sequence of frozen frames for a fraction of a second,
| like current flat screens. The former is apparently
| better at tricking our eyes to perceive it as fluid
| motion. OLED monitors could theoretically emulate that,
| to some degree, with black frame insertion. But
| manufacturers hate to implement it, perhaps because it
| causes wear. It also makes the screen dimmer.
|
| CRTs also had no native resolution. They would instead
| change resolution physically, which made fuzzy
| interpolation unnecessary.
|
| For a long time, they also had much higher refresh rates
| and better contrast than LCDs, though this has been
| matched in recent times.
| scheeseman486 wrote:
| I had a 21" Sony Trinitron for a computer monitor through
| the 2000s. 100hz at 1600x1200, it bested everything I
| bought after it for years. Until something in it popped,
| anyway.
|
| CRTs didn't have a native resolution, but colour ones did
| have either masks or grills with individual RGB subpixels
| just like a flat panel. There was still interpolation in
| a sense, it was just done physically instead of
| transforming a framebuffer. If you made a CRT photon gun
| accurate enough that it could reliably address those
| subpixels it would then have a "native" resolution.
|
| e: Also, a heads up that VR headsets strobe by default,
| it's part of what makes them work at all. Even LCD
| models, where they strobe the backlight.
| smikhanov wrote:
| This one is not for AR/VR, but still:
| https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term
| sfpotter wrote:
| An app that does nothing except the default pass through and
| says in a booming voice every 10 seconds "YOU WILL DIE
| ALONE..."
| Gunnerhead wrote:
| It's like the opposite of a meditation app, an anxiety
| inducing app. Love it!
| tiahura wrote:
| Alternative app store?
| robertn702 wrote:
| An app that corrects your vision while using passthrough mode
| and makes it look like you're wearing glasses from the outside.
| mellosouls wrote:
| Already being discussed:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36423648
| cududa wrote:
| Yeah but that's all people debating the merits of Vision Pro,
| not the actual sdk/ documentation released..
| mellosouls wrote:
| The original link is to essentially the same info as this,
| regardless of the conversational direction.
| KnobbleMcKnees wrote:
| One is a link to a press release and the other to technical
| documentation. Hardly the same even if the the high level
| summaries bear some resemblance.
| mellosouls wrote:
| Oh please, it's the exact same subject.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| But not the same information.
| tiahura wrote:
| https://developer.apple.com/documentation/visionos/interacti...
|
| So, if I setup xcode, I can install the sdk and run the
| Simulator?
| gpm wrote:
| I had to sign up as a developer and agree to terms of service
| including a surprisingly restrictive NDA as well, but yes.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > including a surprisingly restrictive NDA
|
| have you never heard of the Apple NDA before now? they are
| pretty much famous (infamous?) for their NDAs.
| DANmode wrote:
| For partners, vendors, sure, everyone's heard of that.
|
| Didn't realize that extended to the creator of Flappy Bird!
| dylan604 wrote:
| If you do business with Apple, you're going to be under
| an NDA
| gpm wrote:
| They are, I just didn't realize it extended to downloading
| a free sdk.
| hourago wrote:
| The main problem I see with developing for VisionOS is the lack
| of reach. I expect that after the initial novelty the user base
| will be reduced further.
|
| The closed development ecosystem of Apple is alluring because it
| offers access to its iOS devices.
|
| But what makes it worth the effort to learn a new SDK, or even
| buy a MacOs device to develop for it, for just a few thousands of
| devices?
| TexanFeller wrote:
| Apple customers are one of the few consumer segments that don't
| mind paying for software. Apple captures a huge chunk of app
| revenue, massively outsized compared to their user base and far
| more than Android. One of the big reasons I don't try Android
| anymore is the last time I did so many of the apps were adware
| with no option to buy an ad-free version - I guess they don't
| bother because Android customers statistically won't pay.
| code_runner wrote:
| I'm personally really torn on this. I don't think the user base
| will reduce though... especially if people spent that sort of
| money.
| XorNot wrote:
| If you can afford it, you can also afford to let it sit on
| the shelf gathering dust though.
|
| Which is what my Vive does these days.
| grouchomarx wrote:
| They said the same thing verbatim about iOS
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Would you apply the same logic to tvOS as well ?
| filoleg wrote:
| > But what makes it worth the effort to learn a new SDK, or
| even buy a MacOs device to develop for it, for just a few
| thousands of devices?
|
| It is the same type of a bet when deciding to start a tire
| company or a car mechanic shop shortly after the first cars
| ever were introduced on the roads. You don't bet on the
| exisitng base, you bet on that base expanding extremely wildly,
| and you want to secure your position early.
|
| Also, I fully expect to be positively surprised by the sales of
| VisionPro. Keep in mind, we live in a world where one of the
| fairly popular flagship android phones (Galaxy Fold) sells
| retail for close to $2k. And it is still fundamentally a
| smartphone, it just folds and has a couple nice features due to
| it that others don't. But none of it is practically
| groundbreaking. I would be honestly even more surprised, if
| Apple wouldn't manage to bring a sub-$2k version of their AR
| device in the following few years.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >It is the same type of a bet when deciding to start a tire
| company or a car mechanic shop shortly after the first cars
| ever were introduced on the roads. You don't bet on the
| exisitng base, you bet on that base expanding extremely
| wildly, and you want to secure your position early.
|
| A lot of people (and billions of VC) made that bet in 2016
| with the first wave of headsets. It didn't pan out, and they
| got burned (myself included).
|
| Here's hoping Apple is in this for the long haul, as they are
| basically the last hope for consumer VR reaching mainstream
| adoption.
| cubefox wrote:
| Hardly the last hope. So far the only successful headset is
| the Oculus Quest and it was made by Meta, not Apple. It had
| multiple new features: internal processor, inside-out
| tracking, camera passthrough, very low price. The Quest
| headsets have sold 20 million units. In terms of features,
| the Vision is basically an ultra expensive premium Quest,
| combined with a heavier software focus on AR and finger
| tracking instead of controllers.
|
| It is clear that Meta tries to conquer the market from the
| low price end, which seems to work, as there hasn't been an
| expensive headset (like the Valve Index) which sold
| anywhere as many units as the Quest. Now Apple doubles down
| on the high price end route. It will be interesting to see
| which price approach proves successful in the long run, or
| whether they both converge at some sort of compromise. I
| wouldn't say Apple's approach has an obvious advantage.
| vel0city wrote:
| Oculus Quest wasn't the first commercial HMD with inside-
| out tracking.
|
| Windows Mixed Reality headsets came out October 2018 with
| inside-out tracking. Oculus Quest came out May 2019.
|
| The Vive technically could do camera passthrough, but I
| never saw anything actually supporting it well and it
| wasn't very high quality at all. The Vive Pro which also
| released before the Quest even had two cameras for
| stereoscopic passthrough.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >The Quest headsets have sold 20 million units
|
| This is kind of my point though. Over a hundred billion
| dollars invested by Facebook to sell 20 million units
| over 5 years (all at or below hardware cost). That's
| still a tiny drop in the bucket compared to mainstream
| adoption in the sense of iPhones and iPads. You could add
| up every headset ever sold by any company since Oculus 1
| released in 2016, and it would still be less than the
| number of iPhones sold last year alone, both in units and
| revenue.
|
| We are still waiting to see whether it will happen for
| VR. Apple just announced the first true second gen
| headset, so hopefully that does the trick.
| refulgentis wrote:
| I hope I live to be old enough that things sold to
| millions can succeed with their own story, instead of
| being subjected to eternal comparison to the iPhone story
|
| It launched my career, but it's such a poor comparison
| point for success. The iPhone replaced existing phones,
| it wasn't a de novo market, or even technology really.
|
| I didn't review your FB #s carefully, but my guess is it
| performs some sort of coarse operation to guesstimate
| incremental employee cost due to VR
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >I hope I live to be old enough that things sold to
| millions can succeed with their own story, instead of
| being subjected to eternal comparison to the iPhone story
|
| VR has absolutely "succeeded" in the sense that it's a
| neat toy to play games with that we didn't have before.
| But for it to be anything more than that, yes the iPhone
| analogy is apt. Otherwise it remains a niche PC gaming
| peripheral, and nothing more (i.e. where we've been stuck
| for the last 5 years).
| rafark wrote:
| This is Apple though. It is very likely that this will be a
| successful product. How many windows mobile/Symbian devs
| were burned before the iPhone came out?
|
| If you can, you should totally give it a shot.
| sandoze wrote:
| This is a great question that will likely be subsidized by
| their development community. The smart move here is making the
| SDK available, hopefully hardware for development in the near
| future, and (most importantly) a market place available on day
| one for consumers.
|
| We can never predict the future and can safely assume this will
| never have the reach of their phones, tablets, or computer
| market. But it is tempting to play the App Store lottery before
| the clones roll in!
| pesfandiar wrote:
| The user base may be small but they'll be unusually wealthy.
| pavlov wrote:
| When the iPhone App Store launched there was an app called "I
| Am Rich" which was a picture of a ruby that cost $999. It
| sold many copies.
|
| Sadly I bet Apple won't allow it this time around.
| zakki wrote:
| Maybe they'll allow it if it is an immersion app.
|
| *I'm thinking of a comic that picturing Donald Duck's uncle
| swimming in a pool of gold coins
| dag11 wrote:
| > many copies
|
| Specifically 8 copies -- which I absolutely agree counts as
| "many copies" for what it was!
| frereubu wrote:
| Two of which were refunded...
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich#Purchases
| m3kw9 wrote:
| You mean 10 million devices that's the estimate Apple puts.
| This isn't Play date or go fund me project
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Apple's marketing department telling us they'll be selling a
| lot if of little help to be honest.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >But what makes it worth the effort to learn a new SDK, or even
| buy a MacOs device to develop for it, for just a few thousands
| of devices?
|
| This is a new official platform from Apple, not some random
| Google experiment. They don't do something like that willy
| nilly. This will be supported for decades to come now, and be
| the basis for who knows how many products. It's about getting
| in at the ground floor, a la iOS circa 2007.
| thyselius wrote:
| I hope you're right. I've had a US top 10 grossing game
| (Bowling) on Apple TV for years and the income it's not
| enough to pay one salary. We thought it could be a great
| gaming platform for people without PS/Xbox, but unfortunately
| this did not happen. Apple TV is probably great for Netflix
| etc though.
| pavlov wrote:
| On the other hand you could also have got in at the ground
| floor for tvOS or watchOS, and probably don't have much to
| show for it.
|
| Not all Apple platforms are enormously successful for third
| parties.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Those were both ancillary platforms meant to augment their
| main platform, computing.
|
| This is different, this is a potential replacement for
| their core products.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| The iPhone entered a market that was already huge and
| relatively mature, to further expand it in value.
|
| AR/VR is far from that. I hope Apple's entry boosts it a
| lot further, but comparing it to the iPhone feels like
| there's only disappointment in waiting, even if it fairly
| succeeds like the Watch does for instance.
| hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
| The virtual environment reminds me something described by
| u/patches765 (a user active on reddit regarding DND sessions).
| Basically he was active in a Startrek MUD decades ago for a
| while, and one of the administrator asked him to perform a task:
| take a (virtual) dog and do some scripting, so that he can assess
| his programming ability.
|
| Now that this is definitely not a new idea, but I'd imagine, in
| the future, if the metaverse does sprang up, maybe we will see
| the same thing: Hey John Doe here is a widget which is a small
| window in the metaverse room 211, please write a script and make
| it interesting, you can do anything.
|
| That definitely sounds very interesting. Man since I have a
| macbook pro at work, I might actually try it out, at least in the
| simulator.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-06-22 23:01 UTC)