[HN Gopher] A case for toe socks
___________________________________________________________________
A case for toe socks
Author : kevincox
Score : 118 points
Date : 2023-06-21 11:00 UTC (12 hours ago)
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| programmarchy wrote:
| Problematic if you have webbed toes.
| LesZedCB wrote:
| wouldn't a regular sock be a toe sock then..? :)
| basch wrote:
| webbed toe being like the 2nd and 3rd toe being partially
| fused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webbed_toes
| jmclnx wrote:
| Never heard of them, but I can see me buying them.
|
| I wonder what local shops sell them. (I try and avoid amazon)
| sargun wrote:
| REI has been my goto for toe socks in the past. I buy the
| Injinji brand of socks.
| markx2 wrote:
| I do not wear toe socks because my Vibram Five Fingers would be
| too tight.
|
| Some 8 years ago I bought a pair of Vibram 5F and ever since they
| are my footwear of choice.
|
| Walking the dogs, going on a flight, going _anywhere_.
|
| You know that feeling at the end of the day when you walk in the
| door and kick your shoes off? And your feet go "AAAAAAHHHHH"?
|
| Doesn't happen with the vibrams. On/off your feet don't notice.
|
| Oh - and when they get a bit whiffy - chuck them in the laundry.
| Good as new.
|
| Not connected to the company at all, just a very satisfied
| customer.
| seniorsassycat wrote:
| I've worn them and can't stand them, there is too much material
| between toes. I prefer zero-drop, wide toe box shoes like
| vivobarefoot and Merrell *gloves.
|
| I think I'd have the same opinion on toe socks
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Are Vibrams a shoe brand? I see lots of vibram rubber soles on
| other brands boots.
| grzm wrote:
| Yes. https://www.vibram.com/us
| xahrepap wrote:
| I have weird feet. I've had foot drs gasp when they first see
| my feet.
|
| I _love_ my Vibrams. They 're the best shoes I've ever owned.
| And I'm pretty sure mine are a half-size too small :P But
| they're still better than other shoes.
| tristor wrote:
| I love toe socks. I used to wear toe socks of "liner" thickness
| inside of regular hiking socks to help maintain toe separation
| and reduce chafing/blistering when hiking, and it works wonders.
| I recommend Injinji for toe socks and Darn Tough for
| hiking/walking/everyday socks. They're also great if you do take
| your shoes off indoors (we do in my house), because you can leave
| your toe socks/liners on to keep your feet more even in
| temperature without negatively impacting sensation/touch, and
| leave your heavier socks by your shoes.
| [deleted]
| moralestapia wrote:
| Flip-flop master race reporting in!
|
| (Although I don't do it anymore bc I work in a lab.)
| cyberpunk wrote:
| dont you find the constant "grip" position your feet make while
| walking in flip-flops fatiguing?
| moralestapia wrote:
| I know what you mean. Just force yourself to stop doing it,
| eventually your mind will realize it will not fall and that
| reflex will disappear.
| williamdclt wrote:
| That doesn't happen with flip flops that fit you well
| (usually means having to go for better quality)
| OkayPhysicist wrote:
| That's a sign your flip flops are either poorly made, or
| don't fit your feet well. Personally, all my former water
| polo buddies swear by Rainbows, but I've been told Reef makes
| some good ones, too. The important thing is that your feet
| need to be able to sink into the sandals a bit (Rainbows have
| a pretty brutal break-in period until the leather compresses
| to match your feet), and the strap that goes between your
| toes needs to be soft enough to be comfortable, but wide
| enough that it snuggles into the slightly flared base of the
| gap between your toes.
| hosh wrote:
| I love toe socks!
|
| I will say though, just wearing them or going barefoot does not
| naturally encourage the toes to spread out. There's a specific
| way of training that comes from the martial art world, where the
| connective tissues among the toes grow more thicker and more
| robust. The downside is that you start having to look for
| footwear that are wider than the standard sizes.
| Supermancho wrote:
| > You don't get blisters between your toes.
|
| Yes, you can. Wear different ones, you'll find out right-quick.
| throwaway22032 wrote:
| Aren't your toes jammed together when you're wearing shoes
| anyway?
|
| Around my own house I don't usually wear socks unless it's cold.
| scotty79 wrote:
| It's good to use these socks with "barefoot" shoes that have
| plenty of room for toes and thin sole that helps them spread
| while walking.
| mint2 wrote:
| Toes are jammed together because shoe toe boxes are not foot
| shaped, on most shoes they are shaped purely for vanity. In
| other words we still do foot binding, just milder. Hello
| bunions and foot issues!
|
| And the width is set at average, so it fits very few people.
| Also the non-foot shape makes it so the few shoes that do offer
| different widths still fail to fit.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I think it's not so much a problem with the shape for plenty
| of men's shoes (though I don't love the big toe poking
| slightly inward) and more that people get shoes that don't
| fit very well.
| mint2 wrote:
| Big toes poking inwards is a huge issue. It's a awful
| terrible design that makes no sense.
|
| Also people don't get shoes that fit well because they
| don't know shoes that fit well exist because they barely
| exist.
|
| Altra and Topo make some shoes that fit okay but still are
| only going to fit certain small segments of the population.
|
| Altra's size wide also is the common wide = more volume but
| not actually wider ridiculousness. People don't buy shoes
| that fit because they don't know they exist nor do they
| realize their shoes don't actually fit. But even if they
| did realize both things, most people would not have access
| to the few modes that fit better.
| abecedarius wrote:
| I was a bit shocked when I first saw photos of adults with
| unmodified human feet, that hadn't been molded by Western
| standard shoes as they grew up.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > Toes are jammed together because shoe toe boxes are not
| foot shaped, on most shoes they are shaped purely for vanity.
|
| I highly disagree with the notion that things that look
| pleasing to the eyes are "vanity". I also disagree that taste
| is vanity.
|
| Wearing Crocs is one thing. Wearing Crocs and calling those
| who don't vanitous is something else altogether.
| mint2 wrote:
| When function is sacrificed in the name of looks, it's pure
| vanity. When something goes beyond that and actively causes
| harm in the name of looks, it's vanity at the worst.
|
| I agree Crocs are ugly. Shoes don't have to look like crocs
| to be anatomically functional.
| jnwatson wrote:
| Even with width, the ratio between the width of the front of
| the foot and the width of your heel varies. I need a normal
| width heel and a wider toe box. Only took me 20 years, but I
| finally found a decent brand of running shoes that matches my
| slightly duck-like feet.
| rtownsend5 wrote:
| What running shoe brand do you wear? I also have duck-like
| feet and struggle to find athletic shoes that fit properly.
| EricE wrote:
| Look into diabetic shoes; they tend to have wide
| toeboxes. Luckily here in Las Vegas we still have an old
| fashioned, competent shoe store where they actually
| measure your foot (pressure pad and all), understand foot
| anatomy and how different manufacturers make their
| products. They recommended a few different brands. I
| prefer New Balance so they produced the 1540. The v2 fit
| me better but alas, all you can find now is the 1540v3.
| It wasn't the cheapest shoe, however it is leaps and
| bounds better than any other tennis shoe I have ever
| worn. Worth every penny.
|
| FYI Vegas store for those interested:
| https://www.yelp.com/biz/cesars-shoe-world-las-vegas-3
| finnh wrote:
| Not OP, but Altra King MT trail shoes have a great wide
| toe box with a pretty normal ankle width. I think the
| whole Altra line aims for a wide toe box - they call it
| "Footshape" in their marketing materials[0].
|
| Not related to the company, just a satisfied customer. I
| actually wear toe socks inside my Altras whenever I'm
| doing a long hike, like (say) the Enchantments in WA
| state.
|
| [0] https://www.altrarunning.com/shop/mens-king-
| mt-2-alm1952g
| mikestew wrote:
| _Altra King MT trail shoes have a great wide toe box_
|
| Too bad they don't make them anymore. The Altra Superior
| is probably the closest one, similar shape and low stack
| height. And if nothing else, there's the venerable Lone
| Peak with which it is hard to go too far wrong.
| [deleted]
| throwawayai2 wrote:
| Altra and Topo make "footshaped" shoes. Not all Altra
| are, but you can get most models with a wider toebox.
|
| Another brand to checkout is Lems are other brands to
| checkout. They do have some running type shoes, but I'm
| only familiar with their casual shoes. I reallly
| recommend getting some Lems for daily use.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| Altra have been really disappointing the last few years -
| I started buying them ~2012 because of their wide toebox
| but around 2015 they seemed to revert back to more normal
| shapes. Same with HOKA - they had some excellent wide
| shoes around 2012 which slowly disappeared around 2015.
|
| Second the LEMS though - not quite barefoot but
| definitely minimal.
| LesZedCB wrote:
| foot binding is alive and well in the rock climbing
| community. i am 'recovering' from fit issues from the last 7
| years. since covid i gave up on rock shoe fitting style
| (which bled into my regular shoe fitting as well) and my feet
| are much happier now, though still not great.
| klondike_klive wrote:
| Locking cycling shoes are also preposterously narrow too. I
| guess they're all about aerodynamics.
| LesZedCB wrote:
| yeah my first pair were a specialized shoe and my foot
| went numb from the bridge being squished. i have some
| crankbros and fiveten which are both much wider, though
| for road i hear shimano have pretty comfy toeboxes.
| masklinn wrote:
| > Aren't your toes jammed together when you're wearing shoes
| anyway?
|
| They're not supposed to be, but most shoes are terribly fit if
| you have any sort of less than ideal feet.
|
| It took me years to realise, but (alongside a whole host of
| other issues) I turn out to have pretty "wide" feet at the
| front.
|
| After decades of wearing shoes the toes literally overlap, if I
| walk middle distances unless I add some sort of separator (e.g.
| toe socks, which is _not_ comfortable as it forces toes apart
| when they got misshapen to bunch up) even in open-toed shoes my
| toes are so deformed they 'll stab one another: the nail of the
| 5th and 4th toes will scrape against the previous toe until
| they break the skin and fill my socks with blood.
| [deleted]
| zidad wrote:
| I've bought a pair of toe socks some time ago and will definitely
| buy more.
|
| I've also started to wear barefoot shoes with widened toes some
| years ago, and I can't go back to my 'normal' business shoes
| anymore, my feet start hurting within an hour because my toes
| positions started to be more parted.
|
| Running with them is quite challenging though, the technique to
| land on the front of your feet required to minimize shocks on the
| knees and hips but a lot more strain on the calves.
| scotty79 wrote:
| I can recommend barefoot shoes. I really feel like they save my
| knees and everything else in my legs works more smoothly and I
| feel more stable walking. They take a bit of adjustment though.
| They'll train your calves, you'll walk slower because you'll have
| shorter step length, you'll initially get blisters in new places.
| danck wrote:
| The obvious solution to narrow socks is wider socks. Ideally also
| with an asymmetrical shape that follows the feets anatomy.
|
| Surprisingly there seems to be only one company that makes them:
| Plus12Socks
|
| Their story is quite interesting. The company is a spin-off of an
| Austrian research group on children's foot health
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| My brother in Japan also got socks where only the big toe is
| separate and I kinda like those. The ones with five separate toes
| are kinda hard to put on. The one with just the big toe separated
| can be put on as fast a regular socks.
| 5555624 wrote:
| Tabi socks are a traditional sock in Japan, worn with zori
| (thonged sandals). They date back hundreds of years. You an
| also get Jika-Tabi, which have a durable, rubber sole, for
| outdoor wear.
| [deleted]
| noam_compsci wrote:
| 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6 suggest he doesn't use socks like I do.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| I think OP is wearing socks that are not properly fit. Literally
| never have had any of these problems with traditional wool black
| socks.
| iambateman wrote:
| Super glad for the fellow enjoying some toe socks.
|
| Also, I experience none of his problems.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| How do they compare to the alternatives?
|
| - normal socks in normal shoes
|
| - toe socks in normal shoes (the OP?)
|
| - bare feet in normal shoes
|
| - {bare feet,toe socks} in toe shoes
|
| - bare feet in flip flops or something else pretty minimal
|
| - bare feet everywhere
|
| I feel like most arguments were between the first two options.
| simple10 wrote:
| This is a bit unusual post to see on HN front page. But
| interesting!
|
| Anyone have a recommendation for toe sock brands? I've been
| wanting to get some for running but haven't got around to doing
| any research.
| TRiG_Ireland wrote:
| The Awesome Socks Club is currently open for registration. It
| opens once or twice a year. They post you a pair a month, each
| designed by a different independent artist, and all the profits
| go to charity (maternal health care in Sierra Leone).
| mikestew wrote:
| I see no mention of toes socks on their website, just a
| choice of "crew" or "ankle".
| lkurtz wrote:
| Injinji is the best I've tried so far
| ctom96 wrote:
| I can also vouch for injinji
| vram22 wrote:
| Interesting article.
|
| We call them split-toe socks in India.
|
| Only read a few of the HN comments here so far, and then the
| first two paragraphs of the article, but immediately thought of a
| point, so putting it here, although I'll surely read the rest of
| the article and more comments here a bit later:
|
| >They're plain better for your toes. Toes want to spread out and
| be free. Having your toes cramped together by a sleeve all day
| will fundamentally change the way the foot is shaped and how you
| walk.
|
| Spot on, IMO, and this is why I _never_ buy shoes that become
| narrower towards the front, and pinch your toes together.
| Sometimes I have to search more, because that kind seems to be a
| bit of a fashion in India, where I am, from quite a while, but
| the idea seems really dumb to me. Whenever I buy shoes, I still
| search until I can find and buy the right kind for me, which don
| 't narrow towards the front.
|
| The kind that don't narrow used to be called naughty-boy shoes in
| India, when I was in primary school, for some reason :) Probably
| people can guess why ...
|
| If that is the case, I wanna be a naughty boy all my life ;-)
| checkyoursudo wrote:
| > The kind that don't narrow used to be called naughty-boy
| shoes in India, when I was in primary school, for some reason
| :) Probably people can guess why ...
|
| I have been sitting here for a few minutes trying to come up
| with a guess, and I have not even a bad guess as to why. Any
| hints?
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Maybe it's because they are better at uhh.. hitting kids who
| are naughty? From experience, flatter shoes hurt more lol.
| Not sure though, I'm puzzled myself!
| RGamma wrote:
| Look up "barefoot shoes". They're usually like you described
| and additionally undampened (requires different walking
| technique, no heel-walking anymore).
| driverdan wrote:
| I used to wear toe shoes so I have a bunch of toe socks. When I
| first wore them it took some getting used to but after that I
| noticed no difference. Regular socks are stretchy and expand to
| fit the position of your toes.
| gregschlom wrote:
| I also wear toe socks, and while I agree with the author's
| points, here are some other downsides that they fail to mention:
|
| 1. Flipping them right side out after laundry takes more work
| than regular socks, because you need to flip each toe
| individually
|
| 2. Also when doing laundry, you need to match the left and right
| foot, which takes more time. Be sure to buy packs with different
| colors, and don't be like me and buy 2 times the same pack.
|
| 3. They take more time to put on.
|
| So basically, these 3 all boil down to: they require a little
| more work. But they're worth it.
| ndr wrote:
| I love toe socks but it's hard to find good quality ones that I
| can wear in non-sport scenarios.
|
| For instance injinji does great toe socks but they are overly
| branded, is there anything that doesn't stand so much out?
| strict9 wrote:
| > _Every now and again (say I enter a house which has a no-shoe
| rule), someone will spot them and find the concept strange,_
|
| I find it more strange that people wear outside shoes inside. The
| same shoes that go on dirt, mud, who knows what else are used to
| walk on your floors and carpets.
|
| Taking your shoes off at the door prevents a lot of dirt/who-
| knows-what from entering the house.
| swader999 wrote:
| That seems to be an American thing. In Canada everyone takes
| their shoes off inside houses.
| vram22 wrote:
| Literally takes their shoes off inside the house, or takes
| them off outside, and then steps in?
| __d wrote:
| Is a "mud room" a Canadian thing?
| swader999 wrote:
| I've heard it called mud room or front foyer.
| khalladay wrote:
| Takes their shoes off in the "entrance" (or mud room maybe,
| though I've never known anyone who calls it that) of the
| house, which is generally a small tiled area immediately
| inside any doors that lead to the outside. Shoes are left
| on the tile (or a mat / plastic shoe thing) and then folks
| walk without shoes from the entrance area into the rest of
| the house.
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _that go on dirt, mud, who knows what else are used to walk
| on your floors and carpets...prevents a lot of dirt /who-knows-
| what from entering the house._
|
| so you think people should just never walk barefoot outside on
| unpaved surfaces, the way our ancestors evolved to, where
| nature exists in every state between birth and death?
|
| (you don't need to repeat any part of your argument, trust me,
| I get it, just pointing out the obvious problem with it)
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I tried to take the "shoes off in the house" thing seriously
| for a while but I'm back to just letting the floor be dirty.
|
| You need a pair of shoes at every exit and you need to enter
| the way you last exited and you need to set whatever you're
| carrying down to put your shoes on and take them off all the
| time. Plus your guests who don't have a shoe at every doorway
| end up cold inside or walking around in their socks outside,
| and it's not like I can get the dog to wash her feet at the
| door... It's just too much.
|
| Down is where the dirt goes.
| vkou wrote:
| If you have dogs, they usually don't take off their shoes when
| they go inside, so you may as well keep wearing shoes if you
| have hardwood floors.
|
| Shoes on carpet are always icky, though.
| arkitaip wrote:
| That's why you wash your dog's paws.
| jhbadger wrote:
| Do you take your shoes off at work? (assuming you still have a
| non-virtual workplace) Any argument about how shoes are
| unsanitary (not that we live in a time where the streets are
| covered in horseshit anymore) should apply equally to the
| workplace as in the home, no?
| mchaver wrote:
| It's honestly not a bad idea to have footwear dedicated to
| certain spaces. I support the idea of office slippers.
| filoleg wrote:
| > Do you take your shoes off at work?
|
| No, because I consider the office to be a shared public
| space, and none of the people working in the office actually
| live there. Office is not my personal space, it is a
| transient area.
| parentheses wrote:
| There is no reason for this equivalence.
|
| My main reasoning is reducing cleaning effort on my end. If
| the office were to have a no shoes rule I'd be walking around
| in socks or barefoot as long as others do.
|
| Sharing foot bacteria with my coworkers is also a different
| ballgame than sharing it with my wife and kid. The family is
| already sharing quite a bit of bacteria so what's a bit of
| foot stuff.
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| I did when when still working in offices, as did almost all
| colleagues - wearing slippers, not without shoes. Not just
| because of the dirt but I also can't imagine wearing winter
| boots in a 23degC office.
| Terr_ wrote:
| (Not OP) I would _like_ to but there 's a Prisoner's Dilemma
| going on.
|
| If I take off my shoes but some of my coworkers still track
| icky crap in, then it is worse for me than if we all
| uniformly kept our outdoor shoes on.
|
| One option is to have some office shoes or sandals, which
| will also help protect from culinary mistakes in the break-
| room.
| gadders wrote:
| I always thought people should wear slippers at work.
| DanHulton wrote:
| Yeah, I always had a nice pair of "business-appropriate"
| slippers for any office I worked in. Especially great in
| the winter, when I can just shuck off my wet winter boots
| and swap into my comfy office slippers.
| unglaublich wrote:
| Yup! At a big company I am the only one on the floor, but I
| don't care. I also don't care about the dust on my socks. I
| only care about breathability and freedom of movement.
| wombat-man wrote:
| Wearing house slippers or birkenstocks at work is great.
| 99_00 wrote:
| People interact with the floor of their home differently than
| the floor of their workplace.
| lesquivemeau wrote:
| I do. It's company policy where i work. It's very uncommon in
| my country though (France) to take off shoes at work, even
| though it's very common at home.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> Do you take your shoes off at work? (assuming you still
| have a non-virtual workplace) _
|
| I do, and I switch to to my Birkenstocks at work, as my feet
| can breathe way better in them and it also gives my sneakers
| an ~8h rest to stay smell-free and cool until I have to go
| home and put them back on.
|
| Continuously wearing the same pair of sneakers for about 10h
| per day is ... not great. My feet would be in a swampy sweat
| broth.
| klyrs wrote:
| > My feet would be in a swampy sweat broth.
|
| People who always wear shoes all day every day think tend
| to think that feet are gross. And that's because their feet
| are disgusting, and they project that onto everybody else.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| I didn't project anything. I said my feet are less sweaty
| in Birkenstock sandals than in Sneakers as they breathe
| less and less sweat and more fresh air is always better.
| proto_lambda wrote:
| > People who always wear shoes all day every day
|
| They explicitly weren't talking about you.
| [deleted]
| dmm wrote:
| Shoes carry large amounts of fecal bateria into homes,
| including E. coli: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-
| news/shoes-carry-poop-b...
|
| > should apply equally to the workplace as in the home, no?
|
| Probably. You should bring it up with your boss.
| taeric wrote:
| Would also apply to eating establishments. Libraries.
| Basically any environment where you aren't wearing shoes for
| safety.
| kklisura wrote:
| I do. Company I work for provides space for leaving your
| outside shoes and keeping your inside shoes or slippers. I
| wore slippers until few years ago, but now I wear comfy
| snickers in office. Some of my colleagues still wear
| slippers.
| JohnFen wrote:
| Where I currently work, you are required to wear shoes
| (because although I work in an office, the other half of
| the building is a factory where shoes are a safety issue,
| and it's easier to have a blanket "shoes required" rule for
| everybody).
|
| The place I worked at before also had a "shoes required"
| rule, but I don't know why. My assumption is that someone
| had stinky feet at some point.
| dizhn wrote:
| I do and it's amazing (slippers). Of course not everyone can
| do that.
| gopalv wrote:
| > Do you take your shoes off at work? (assuming you still
| have a non-virtual workplace)
|
| In India, when the dust kills computers by clogging fans,
| you'll see workplaces with computers have a "leave your shoes
| outside" board. I'm not sure what happens today, but this was
| true when I lived there.
|
| That's mostly because everyone coming in is usually spent the
| last half mile on foot and the shoes will basically flake-off
| indoors in the lowered humidity.
|
| Also, for some reason my dentist's office has a "employees
| must change into shoes" notice, suspiciously in the bay area.
|
| Maybe they had some contamination issues ("work shoes" that
| could be santized properly?) or maybe they had employees wear
| sandals into the office & they had to enforce the rule after
| someone dropped a sharp on a toe?
| pyrale wrote:
| I wish office places made it doable. Get to work, get your
| slippers, be comfortable.
| bjornasm wrote:
| Uhm no? Unlike in my home the work environment have
| professionals washing regularly, no food is prepared, no kids
| play at the floor and the floors and furniture is made to be
| easily cleaned. So no. Not at all. (But I wear birkenstocks
| at work, so nice taking off my shoes that are made to be used
| outside and rather use footwear that are more fit for the
| inside).
| GuB-42 wrote:
| It is one of these cultural things, and will be forever a
| controversial topic. Personally, I don't think there is a right
| answer, except to respect your host.
|
| I put it with: airplane seat reclining, casual nudity, hanging
| clothes from windows, just about anything sexual,...
| sparrish wrote:
| I got 4 boys and way too many legos.
|
| Only time I'm taking my shoes off is when I'm in bed or in the
| shower. It's just too dangerous to go barefoot. <grin>
| ralfd wrote:
| For that we invented house shoes:
|
| http://foottalk.blogspot.com/2017/12/a-very-short-history-
| of...
| tshaddox wrote:
| I like wearing shoes inside your house for the same reason I
| like wearing shoes outside: I don't know what might be on the
| floor and I don't want certain things that might be on the
| floor on my socks or skin. But of course, as a house guest I
| will respect the host's norms.
| Terr_ wrote:
| Working from home has only increased the distinction for me:
| Not only do the shoes come off (like always) but unless I
| anticipate going back out soon, I'll switch from denim jeans to
| lounge/sleepwear, jacket to hoodie.
|
| So today I identify a lot with Mister Rogers' opening show
| routine, despite how elaborate it seemed to my younger-self.
| thih9 wrote:
| I've been working from home since before the pandemic.
|
| I used to be a denim jeans fan, now I'm at a stage where I
| don't switch from sweatpants when I go outside.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I've gotten to the point where when I put on jeans, my dog
| gets excited (assuming that we're going for a walk).
| taeric wrote:
| I do find pets amusing. If you have a dog, all of the
| concerns most people voice about shoes applies to the dog.
| And they often seem to seek out poop to step in. We've been
| forced to bath our dog because he found coyote scat and
| thought that was good to wear.
| thih9 wrote:
| Anecdotally, this checks. Shoes off, dog sits on the
| couch, dog's habits fall under the field of bacteriology.
| 8lahaj wrote:
| Do you have a standing desk? I find that standing in socks,
| barefoot, or even in indoor slippers is very fatiguing for my
| feet when standing for hours--so fatiguing in fact that I
| have a pair of indoor-only new balances, and only use them
| for standing at my desk inside my "home office". I wonder if
| there are any alternatives that are even healthier for my
| feet while avoiding foot/standing fatigue.
| singleshot_ wrote:
| Next time you're in a grocery store, check out the mats the
| cashiers stand on. Thick, flexible rubber.
| evandale wrote:
| You can get standing desk mats :) I got one for this
| reason.
| bluGill wrote:
| I got a balance board for that. Mats like others suggest
| help, but the shifting makes it much easier for me to stand
| piaste wrote:
| I use a thick yoga mat in front of my standing desk.
| Fancier options exist, but the important thing is not to
| stand on a flat, hard surface.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| It sounds odd - and you'll still want shoes - but having a
| walking treadmill under there might be your best bet. I
| find that just standing hurts my feet but I can walk
| practically all day without them hurting.
| mhb wrote:
| Don't stop there: How to Feel Better Naked
| https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/well/live/feel-better-
| nak...
| ghaff wrote:
| I won't say I'm utterly rigorous about it but, yah, I
| increasingly transitioned to bare feet or indoor crocs with
| socks depending on the season. And, if I'm not going out (and
| even sometimes then), sweats or something along those lines.
| mcbutterbunz wrote:
| I've found myself doing the opposite when working from home,
| but I have a backyard office that doesn't have a bathroom. I
| make a number of trips inside each day and taking shoes off
| each time can be a pain. Having a puppy who will steal my
| shoes also adds to the annoyance.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Some shoes are easy to put on in a moments notice - and
| doing so will just become habit. If you want some shoes in
| the office, invest in a pair of decent slippers or some
| shoes just worn inside.
|
| A cabinet is often enough to keep the shoes from the puppy
| - just borrow it from somewhere else. The puppy won't be a
| puppy forever.
| linsomniac wrote:
| Counterpoint: I have indoor-only shoes, and I feel a lot like
| Mr. Rogers when I put them on. I put them on while working
| from home because it dramatically increases the likelihood
| that I will take a break and walk on the treadmill during
| work.
| JohnFen wrote:
| This is what I do. They're technically "slippers", but they
| have actual soles so I consider them slip-on shoes.
| liminal wrote:
| There are comfy clothes for collecting pet hair while at
| home, and nicer, less comfy clothes that are kept as far away
| from pet hair as possible for wearing outside the home.
| parentheses wrote:
| I don't have a hard "no shoes" rule in my home but I would if
| it was more the norm in the US.
| filoleg wrote:
| Depends on where. When I lived in GA suburbs, it was about
| 50/50.
|
| After that, I moved to a few large cities on both coasts(and
| been to plenty others), and I don't remember visiting more
| than one or two households where wearing shoes inside was ok.
| The only exception to this was when someone was hosting a
| large houseparty, in which case wearing shoes inside was
| expected about half the time (you wouldn't want your feet to
| make contact with whatever could be on the floor at some of
| those, such as occasionally spilled liquor).
| velcrovan wrote:
| It is the norm in Minnesota. Growing up, we never wore shoes
| in our own home or in the homes of anyone we visited. Still
| the case today.
| masklinn wrote:
| Shoes indoor seems even more insane in northern locations.
|
| Yeah go and track slush and salt on the wooden floors, will
| you?
| idiotsecant wrote:
| You just knock the snow off your shoes, it's not that
| crazy.
| masklinn wrote:
| A shoe you've "knocked the snow off" is still full of
| snow, just less of it. It's also full of slush and salt.
| JohnFen wrote:
| But northern locations are colder. Being shoeless is
| cold, especially on wood floors.
| zht wrote:
| socks and slippers?
| bluGill wrote:
| But our outdoor shoes are too hot to wear inside. They
| are also heavy and so a relief to get that weight off
| your feet
| masklinn wrote:
| First shoes in this context is outdoor shoes, that
| doesn't mean being barefoot.
|
| Second northern locations tend to have properly insulated
| and heated indoors, rugs, possibly floor heating, ...
| when the cold is common it's easier to spend more on
| heating and comfort. For instance in Japan central
| heating is only common in Hokkaido, maybe also Aomori.
| JohnFen wrote:
| (My responses are US-centric, since that's where I live)
|
| > that doesn't mean being barefoot.
|
| It does if you're at someone else's place. or in your
| socks, which is roughly the same.
|
| > northern locations tend to have properly insulated and
| heated indoors, rugs, possibly floor heating
|
| That is far from the norm in my part of the US.
|
| Don't get me wrong, if I'm a guest and asked to remove my
| shoes, of course I do! And without comment. But it does
| make for uncomfortably cold feet in the winter.
| shrx wrote:
| You can wear slippers
| jghn wrote:
| Things can be judgement calls. It's not like everyone
| takes a strict always on or always off ruling. If someone
| is going to track some obvious crap inside that's a
| different story than if they were walking around in
| normal conditions.
| bko wrote:
| Not saying that I agree but here's an oped arguing against it.
| Even a refusal! (cultural reasons for removing shoes are
| respected though)
|
| Here's Why I'll Be Keeping My Shoes on in Your Shoeless Home
|
| https://www.wsj.com/articles/heres-why-ill-be-keeping-my-sho...
|
| Or archive version
|
| https://archive.is/BSr91
| pyrale wrote:
| Sounds like the kind of insufferable person that will also
| argue about the food they're served, the music they hear, and
| even the way you decorated your home.
|
| > cultural reasons for removing shoes are respected though
|
| "I will show no respect for your decisions regarding your
| personal space, but only if that doesn't make me look bad"
|
| ...And of course, when you read a bit further, you realize
| that this kind of person doesn't understand the decision
| because there ought to be some kind of domestic fixing their
| mess.
|
| > Why don't I just leave my shoes on and give you the amount
| of money [...] You can use it to hire a housecleaner to mop
| up after my shoe detritus.
| JohnFen wrote:
| > Sounds like the kind of insufferable person
|
| Indeed. And it's just plain being a bad guest. When you're
| a guest at someone's house, honoring their wishes about
| things like this is a duty. It's showing them respect.
| bko wrote:
| I guess the Crux of the argument is:
|
| Why are you assuming that your guests' shoes are dirtier
| than your floors?
|
| They believe a floor mat would suffice and it's rude to
| expect people to get their socks or bare feet dirty from
| the floor.
|
| Maybe slippers are the answer?
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| This is not the meeting of equals on neutral ground
| though.
|
| One party is entering another party's _home_. If you 're
| not comfortable with rules inside that home, then don't
| enter that home.
|
| 100% agree that whether your own home is shoeless or not
| is a personal and cultural preference and decision. More
| power to you. But if _I_ am entering _your_ home, then
| your rules prevail.
| vram22 wrote:
| Agreed. This is so obvious that I don't know why it even
| makes sense to discuss, unless the person entering has
| some health issue. Even in that case, they have to ask
| the house owner or renter whether they can keep their
| shoes on inside.
|
| Since it is their house, they, and only they, get to
| decide the rules about shoes allowed inside or not.
| pyrale wrote:
| The crux of my argument is:
|
| Why is _that_ guest assuming that their opinions are more
| important than the overwhelmingly accepted idea that
| people get to set their own home 's rules?
|
| > Maybe slippers are the answer?
|
| The author explains in no ambiguous terms that they won't
| settle for slippers.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| There's no actual "argument against it" in the link - it's
| just a random person expressing their apparently _strongly
| held_ personal preference.
|
| (In a pretty antagonistic, nasty way, too, but them's the
| breaks when you want to write op-ed pieces and get attention
| :-/ )
| candiddevmike wrote:
| AFAIK wearing outdoor shoes indoors is mostly an American
| thing, especially within big cities/on the coasts. As a
| midwesterner, shoes always come off at the door, who knows what
| you stepped in.
| modo_ wrote:
| Mate, trust me that San Franciscans are quick to pop their
| shoes off at the door haha
| karaterobot wrote:
| This is not an American culture thing, this is an individual
| household thing.
| bluGill wrote:
| There is not one American culture. Some American cultures
| have that traditions some don't. Some have lost the
| tradition over time.
| karaterobot wrote:
| Agreed with the general sentiment. I just don't think
| that wearing or not wearing shoes in a house is best
| described as an attribute of culture. I'd bet it's more
| often a personal decision. I grant that there may be some
| groups for whom it's more common, or even named as part
| of a cultural tradition, but in any case those groups
| would be doing the same thing no matter what country they
| were in, so America has nothing to do with it.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > AFAIK wearing outdoor shoes indoors is mostly an American
| thing,
|
| It's ultra common in many european countries. I've got one
| friend where the rule at his house his "shoes off" but most
| others keep their shoes inside.
|
| It's also highly common for people living in houses to have a
| "shoes on inside, but only on the ground floor" and shoes off
| upstairs.
|
| So I guess YMMV.
| pjerem wrote:
| It's also a variable rule when you have guests.
|
| I (n=1) don't wear outdoor shoes at home but I'll allow my
| guests to keep them. I'll clean when they'll leave.
|
| When I'm at home I can wear slippers but my guests can't so
| I allow them to keep their shoes.
| dizhn wrote:
| When the rule of the land is no shoes, traditionally
| you'll have guest slippers.
| xdennis wrote:
| > It's ultra common in many european countries.
|
| I assume (as always...) that by "European" you mean
| "western European", because in Romania you wouldn't be
| caught dead wearing shoes inside.
| tapland wrote:
| Coyld you name a few of those "many"?
|
| Scandinavia, Germany and down to the metiterranean and
| everything east of incl. Croatia I think it's all shoes
| off?
| Shaanie wrote:
| From a quick search it seems like west of Germany, Italy
| and Greece are mostly shoes-inside countries. I
| definitely wouldn't say that's ultra common.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Interesting, I don't think I've ever visited a "shoes on"
| household in my whole life in Czechia. Some households
| offer slippers to guests (in houses with cold floors), but
| you obviously don't wear those anywhere else.
| masklinn wrote:
| > It's ultra common in many european countries. I've got
| one friend where the rule at his house his "shoes off" but
| most others keep their shoes inside.
|
| IME it's not common in european countries _but_ guests tend
| to not be required (though it 's usually appreciated),
| hosts usually won't provide slippers, it's not standard to
| bring your own (though it's often appreciated), and you
| won't be required to walk in socks.
| riffraff wrote:
| It mostly depends on the country. Northern countries tend
| to have wooden floors and no indoors shoes, southern
| countries are generally shoes-on and hard floors.
| markeibes wrote:
| Americans don't walk, they drive so their shoes are very clean.
| rationalist wrote:
| That sounds like a terrible, ill-informed, stereotype.
|
| Maybe they don't walk as much on average, but shoes get dirty
| no matter what country you're in.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| At least in my corner of America, it's expected that you buy
| a house that's too big for you and then spend the rest of
| your life doing home improvement projects on it. So our shoes
| are usually tracking sawdust or other such debris from the
| garage to whichever part of the house we're working on and
| back.
|
| I should have just rented.
| syntheweave wrote:
| I recall a Reddit thread on this where many people chimed in
| with their experiences, which seemed to have a distinctly
| climate-driven element:
|
| * Shoes off = don't track mud and dirt inside
|
| * Shoes on = don't expose yourself to insects
|
| And then depending on cultural background they would tend to
| keep one or the other habit after moving to a different climate
| norm. The shoe habits predate modern construction, so they may
| not matter like they used to.
| TRiG_Ireland wrote:
| I was visiting a friend once who happily wore the same shoes
| inside and outside his house, but was uncomfortable with me
| being barefoot inside and outside his house. Apparently my bare
| feet would track dirt into his house, but his shoes wouldn't?
| Eh, people are strange.
| thelastgallon wrote:
| In the US (and quite possibly all of the Western world), it is
| unacceptable to wash with water.
|
| 1) Wipe hands with paper towels after eating. Hands are still
| greasy, grease finds its way all over the house, door knobs,
| tap handles, keyboards, mice.
|
| 2) Use toilet paper. Completely unacceptable to use water. It
| leads to toilet paper shortages and crusty bottoms (less crusty
| with toilet paper), but nobody has a clue that an alternative
| is available and works better. [1]
|
| 3) Shoes inside, even on bed. You can see this on all the
| shows/movies. Third world has footwear(shoe/flipflops) outside,
| wash feet when you come inside. Or indoor slippers.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/bXK_vHNNht4
| jancsika wrote:
| I rankly speculate you have no dogs.
| augusto-moura wrote:
| I don't have any evidence to back that up, nor am I expert on
| the topic.
|
| But I find that dirt (and outside shoes) is usually fine, you
| will find more dangerous bacteria in door knobs, coins, etc.
| Basically everything your hand touches has a higher risk of
| getting you sick.
|
| That doesn't hide the fact that having a dirty floor looks
| gross though, from a aesthetic standpoint
| jghn wrote:
| My dogs go out and roll around in whatever the heck on the
| ground. And then come inside. Someone wearing their shoes isn't
| going to make much difference unless they've stepped in
| something particularly gross.
| driverdan wrote:
| You don't wipe your dogs' feet off if they're dirty?
| jghn wrote:
| If they're notably gross, yes. But not if they were just
| outside and came in normal. Which is my point. If someone's
| shoes are notably gross, that's also a different story.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Those are strongly correlated rather than independent
| variables though - see my sibling comment :) [1]
|
| 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424356
| wry_discontent wrote:
| I don't like taking my shoes off unless I'm relaxing. It's a
| physical reminder to do stuff.
|
| If I'm watching a show and I need to get up to do something,
| I'll put my shoes back on.
| idopmstuff wrote:
| My in-laws are immigrants from Europe, and they have a no-shoe
| policy. They also have a German Shepherd and a Lab who go out
| for three walks a day and traipse around in the backyard in
| between. Makes the lack of shoes seem sort of pointless to me.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| There are cultural differences.
|
| Where I was born in a European country, it was positively
| _unthinkable_. Nobody ever wore outside shoes inside. In fact,
| my grandma would be upset if I set in my daily jeans upon my
| bed - jeans that set in school seat, street car seat, benches,
| dirt, etc, should not be in contact with where I 'll sleep.
|
| In USA and Canada, it seems to largely be an instinct to say
| "Don't take off your shoes, please!" out of politeness.
|
| I think there are other aspects too, though they get fuzzier.
|
| In my country/childhood, kids were discouraged from playing on
| the floor in unfamiliar places. I observe less of that in
| Canada. Most dogs were "outdoor animals", whereas here dogs are
| pervasively inside. Many people sleep with dogs in their bed!!
| Completely crazy to me and completely normal to my Canadian
| wife :-)
| MereInterest wrote:
| I've seen people work themselves into knots trying to figure
| out how a house could possibly be clean enough to walk around
| in one's socks. That indoor floors are somehow so
| intrinsically dirty that one simply must keep one's shoes on
| to avoid contamination. And I always wanted to ask: How else
| would we keep our floors clean?
| SECProto wrote:
| > In USA and Canada, it seems to largely be an instinct to
| say "Don't take off your shoes, please!" out of politeness.
|
| As a Canadian, I think every household I've been in you take
| your shoes off at the door. Experience limited to Ontario and
| every province east of it.
| x3874 wrote:
| > In fact, my grandma would be upset if I set in my daily
| jeans upon my bed - jeans that set in school seat, street car
| seat, benches, dirt, etc, should not be in contact with where
| I'll sleep.
|
| This. And not only where you sleep. Public transport seats or
| even chairs that were used by many, many people over the
| years are just yuck. Same with door handles (i so hate the
| Americanbones - you can't use your elbow or wrist to push
| them!), public transport, handrails, ATM pinpads...
| whatshisface wrote:
| I have caught other people's colds a lot of times, but I
| don't think I have ever gotten sick from dirt exposure.
| mentalpiracy wrote:
| Anecdata, and an extreme case nonetheless but:
|
| I once triggered a pretty severe allergic reaction from my
| partner because of the pollen and dust I unintentionally
| brought inside after working out in the yard all day.
| rconti wrote:
| I grew up in a family of neatniks, and yet, the very concept of
| taking your shoes off when going inside perplexed me, on the
| rare occasion where I found a "no shoes" house. (Northwest
| USA).
|
| Living the SF Bay Area now, I'd say it's slightly more common
| to take one's shoes off indoors, but certainly not the rule.
|
| I just generally don't step in disgusting stuff. I don't want
| it on my shoes, whether or not I'm wearing them indoors. I
| don't live on a farm. I don't regularly walk across fields or
| on dirt roads. My shoes are relatively clean, and I don't have
| wall-to-wall carpet so I don't have to worry about dirtying the
| carpet so much.
| JohnFen wrote:
| Although I'm never offended or anything when someone asks me
| to take my shoes off, I'm always uncomfortable doing it. It
| makes me feel exposed and vulnerable. As a result, I'd never
| ask guests to remove their shoes (even though I wear slippers
| in my place).
|
| It's an oddly sensitive topic, though. I've seen people get
| offended at being asked, and I've seen people get offended
| because guests didn't automatically take their shoes off
| without being asked.
|
| Weirdness all around.
| endominus wrote:
| Reminds me of an old joke, retold to fit many ethnicities.
|
| Three men take advantage of a break in a diplomatic council
| to visit the bathroom. After they are done relieving
| themselves, the Japanese man fair blasts his hands with
| water, soaping and rinsing several times. He explains, "In my
| country, we hold ourselves to high hygenic standards. I try
| to remain as clean as possible." The Iranian man soaps and
| rinses quickly, using a minimal amount. He says, "In my
| country, we are taught to conserve our resources. We must not
| waste the blessing we have been given." The American does not
| even look at the line of faucets, casually saying over his
| shoulder as he leaves the room, "My dad taught me not to piss
| on my hands."
| Jarwain wrote:
| The lease for my current rental asks us not to wear shoes
| indoors. This is due to the wood flooring and how small rocks
| can get stuck to the underside of one's shoe and scratch up
| the floor
| detourdog wrote:
| I would like to make that rule but could never look myself
| in the mirror after doing it. I have apartments with fresh
| maple floors from a forest that I got after running out of
| reclaimed maple floors from schools.
| benatkin wrote:
| I find it strange that you find it strange that I don't find it
| strange.
|
| Wearing my shoes inside is very normal to me. In my current
| place I have to take my shoes off, so I can adapt, but it still
| isn't normal to me.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| How many microbes are actually on hot, dry, sun-baked pavement?
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| I don't know and don't care. But the dog shit that's covering
| it isn't dry yet.
| OldManRyan wrote:
| How often are you stepping in dog shit that this is a
| concern?
| vram22 wrote:
| One word: parasites.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| I think it depends on how muddy the environment is.
|
| In some areas, it's a really minor concern.
| klondike_klive wrote:
| I tried toe socks but found they really made my toes cold! I find
| that gloves make my fingers cold, too. I'm much more comfortable
| jamming my hands into my pockets. It's a shame about the toe
| socks because I've been wearing barefoot shoes for over a decade
| and am still dealing with a bunion on my left foot. I've been
| working on strengthening my hallucis abductor muscle so I can
| splay my big toe away from the others.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I found I just can't stand having my toes constricted like
| that. I also can't stand to wear hats. I think those two things
| are related.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| > Inexplicably, they don't slide down. Regular socks slowly work
| themselves down into your shoe over a day (depending on the build
| quality), but toe socks break sock physics and just...don't.
|
| I think the author went from wearing very low quality socks to
| decent socks due to cheap low-quality toe socks not existing and
| has discovered that good socks actually do make a difference, but
| then misattributed some of that to them being toe socks.
| ReleaseCandidat wrote:
| That doesn't depend on the socks, but the shoes (well, boots).
| I only have this problem with big boots with a fur liner and
| socks that are shorter than the boots.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| I don't think that's the issue. The author has a large bunion
| on his left foot (or is holding it as a very odd angle) and may
| have gait issues. I am an inveterate people watcher and am
| often surprised by others' posture and gait. It may be that his
| toes are doing extra work to compensate and with each step are
| pulling the toe box of a normal pair of socks forward. This
| would tie in with some other points they made about foot
| health/comfort problems.
|
| I walk tens of miles every week at marching pace, mostly
| wearing the same shoes, and never have any of these problems,
| other than one very small recurring callous. I've never tried
| toe socks but am OK wit Japanese style _tabi_.
| RavingGoat wrote:
| I was thinking the same thing. Maybe the author should be
| comparing his $15 toe socks to a $15 pair of non toe socks
| because his post definitely sounds like he was wearing super
| low quality socks before.
| paiute wrote:
| I have toe socks that slide down. Just one pair of the dozens
| I have.
| cush wrote:
| Clearly not wearing Bombas
| scotty79 wrote:
| Author was just unlucky. I encountered maybe a handful of socks
| that slid down. 99.5% percent of socks had unlimited uptime.
| And I always buy the cheapest, basic stuff so it's not about
| the quality.
| paxys wrote:
| I immediately thought the same thing. I have been wearing
| regular socks my entire life and have never had a single one of
| the problems they mention.
| swah wrote:
| In the same spirit of toe socks, I wonder if there are also penis
| pants?
| tmnvix wrote:
| There certainly were. Eldridge Cleaver (former Black Panther
| and Presidential candidate) invented the 'Cleavers'.
|
| https://www.messynessychic.com/2013/08/01/the-1970s-politica...
| coryrc wrote:
| Later became a Mormon. He was all about special clothing.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| And a Reagan Republican on top of that.
| rngname22 wrote:
| There are certainly a wide variety of undergarments that have
| pouches or tubes or even the short-lived boxerkilt that I'm
| hoping makes a comeback.
| jasonpeacock wrote:
| Yes: https://www.saxxunderwear.com/pages/saxx-underwear-
| features
| autoexec wrote:
| Huh, it's like a bra for balls...
| cush wrote:
| Life changing
| masklinn wrote:
| Sackpants seem more interesting, to avoid them rubbing against
| the thigh.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Briefs? Or Jockstraps?
| WorldPeas wrote:
| Going a step further, I am the oft-ridiculed "foot shoe guy".
| Other than how hard they are to clean, they're probably the best
| purchase I've made in years. Goodbye planar fasciitis
| throw7 wrote:
| A negative is they're a pain to put on. I do like the feel of toe
| socks though... they do feel more "free" comparatively.
| markstos wrote:
| Yes, toe socks take longer to put on. Also, not normal socks
| squeeze your toes, give blisters or cause other problems for
| most uses.
|
| I always wear toe socks for very long runs or hikes, like > 2
| hours, but don't find the extra time to put on toe socks is
| worth it most of the time.
| tivert wrote:
| > They're plain better for your toes. Toes want to spread out and
| be free. Having your toes cramped together by a sleeve all day
| will fundamentally change the way the foot is shaped and how you
| walk.
|
| So the solution is to put _more_ material in your toe area,
| taking up more space inside the shoe? That doesn 't make any
| sense. Socks don't really push your toes together, your shoe
| does, and more sock just means pushing your toes harder against
| the shoe (and each other).
| EricE wrote:
| OMG - thank you for posting this! I have sensitive feet and need
| a wide toe box with shoes. I'm rarely comfortable with socks on,
| let alone shoes. We have gloves for our hands; why not for our
| feet too? It's so obvious - at least now!
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