[HN Gopher] Things I wish I'd known before fulltime RVing (2017)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Things I wish I'd known before fulltime RVing (2017)
        
       Author : cf100clunk
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2023-06-20 17:08 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wheelingit.us)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wheelingit.us)
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | One thing that has changed a lot since this article was written
       | and everyone bought RVs during COVID: good luck just showing up
       | and finding a camp spot. Pre-2020, we'd either just show up to a
       | state park on a Friday night, or maybe reserve a spot a couple of
       | days before. Not anymore; I booked all of the spots we might
       | want, or at least could even _find available_ , in March or so
       | and even then we had to schedule around available spots, and not
       | the weekends we necessarily wanted.
       | 
       | Now, maybe it's just WA state, but if we hit the road for an
       | extended period I'd be reserving spots ahead of time even at
       | places far less popular than, say, Yellowstone.
        
         | StrangeATractor wrote:
         | I usually just pull off at a truck stop for sleep if I'm
         | traveling, but even those have been getting filled up lately.
         | Plenty of exits will just have semis lined up on the shoulder
         | because there's no room anywhere else and they can only drive
         | so many hours by law.
        
         | wesleytodd wrote:
         | This is largely a west coast problem. We are doing a trip to
         | the west coast this summer (sitting in the shade of my RV in AZ
         | right now on our way) and we had to book a lot more in advance
         | than other destinations. The past few years in the central and
         | east we can usually find a spot day of unless it is right near
         | a major attraction.
        
         | poorman wrote:
         | There's an awesome app called Campflare that you should check
         | out to help with those bookings.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | thanks for the recommendation, I'll certainly check it out.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Visit Texas in the summer. Plenty of spots available to enjoy
         | the 110deg heat
        
           | coding123 wrote:
           | as long as you're ok with the risk of severe weather
        
             | mikestew wrote:
             | I live in Seattle: 110F _is_ severe weather.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | A temperature above human body temperature is one of
               | nature's ways of saying "this place isn't for humans."
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Better get used to it. Soon, this will be the norm for a
               | lot more places than it is now
        
             | redundantly wrote:
             | [dead]
        
           | lookdangerous wrote:
           | Is it at all realistic to RV in this weather? I am curious
           | what it would look like.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | For me, it looks like a La Quinta while the sun is up, and
             | then just before sunset, I head back out to make sure the
             | alignment on my telescope is set. It also looks like a
             | couple of cans worth of mosquito repellent. It looks like
             | plenty of water. The last time I went when it was that hot
             | during the day, it was still above 90deg at 2am.
             | 
             | This is one of those adventures where brave blurs into
             | crazy
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Yeah, it's super busy out there now. This is one reason for
         | boondocking. I pretty much don't even look at campgrounds
         | anymore, knowing they'll either be full, or I'll be packed in
         | between two noisy groups when I'm trying to relax. I don't have
         | an RV, and I imagine it's a lot harder to drive those up a
         | forest service road in the Cascades, but there are still plenty
         | of places you can go (looks like that's the author of the
         | article's preferred method too).
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | Washington might have more populated parks simply because they
         | have a state-wide pass for getting access to a wide variety of
         | camping spots for cheap. Other states I've been to still have
         | some kind of registration and check-in process where you need
         | to pay cash on the spot for each place you go to
        
         | checkyoursudo wrote:
         | I am sitting at a campgrounds in Sweden right now. There are a
         | few dozen cabins, of which maybe a handful are being rented.
         | Six, maybe, at the most. Meanwhile, the camping area is
         | absolutely _packed_ with RVs and camper vans. So, maybe not
         | just Washington?
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | That's why a white van may be a better choice than an obvious
         | RV.
         | 
         | A white van can go and park anywhere a delivery truck can go,
         | whereas RVs may get unwanted attention.
        
           | zucked wrote:
           | I don't think most people care enough to bother you, but
           | there's very little "stealth" about a Sprinter/ProMaster van.
           | They used to go unnoticed but they don't anymore. It's a dead
           | giveaway when there is a MaxxAir roof vent and solar
           | panel(s).
        
           | dizhn wrote:
           | White vans used to attract a different kind of attention
           | after 9/11. I guess it's passed now.
        
           | wing-_-nuts wrote:
           | I draw the line at not having a private shower and toilet.
           | Yeah, a lot of van dwellers utilize gyms for this, but I
           | don't want to tie my basic hygiene to external sources.
        
             | GuB-42 wrote:
             | Port-a-potties and portable showers are a thing. They are
             | cheap, lightweight and don't take much space. Not as good
             | as gym showers but sufficient if you want the option not to
             | rely on them.
        
             | poulsbohemian wrote:
             | I don't read parent as saying not to have a shower and
             | toilet, I think they are just saying make the vehicle
             | appear more utilitarian so as to not draw attention.
        
         | mattmaroon wrote:
         | It's not just WA. It's everywhere. New campgrounds are popping
         | up fast and people are becoming disenchanted with the failure-
         | prone covid wagons, so I don't think it'll be this way for
         | long.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | Figured it wasn't just WA, my parents in FL don't camp as
           | much as they used to, but they're saying the same thing on
           | the occasions that they do go out.
           | 
           | I imagine it'll die off because as you point out, folks will
           | find out that RVs always need _something_ , and in a lot of
           | ways are kind of a pain-in-the-ass. But, man, thought it
           | would have happened by now.
        
             | j2bax wrote:
             | I'm knocking on wood real hard with this one, but I'm going
             | on about 20k miles in my 2013 Airstream with no incidents
             | (bought in 2020). Only major thing I did since getting it
             | was change the original tires and get the wheel bearings
             | repacked. Cross country road trips was what led us to go
             | with an Airstream and so far I haven't regret it a bit.
        
             | luddit3 wrote:
             | Combining your house with your car is the pinnacle of need.
        
         | mountaineer wrote:
         | Campnab is a must have for the RVers/campsers I know.
         | https://campnab.com/
        
           | karjaluoto wrote:
           | I love hearing this! (My friend and I built Campnab.)
        
           | timmaah wrote:
           | I've created and ran Wandering Labs since 2015,
           | https://wanderinglabs.com
           | 
           | Used to be friends with Nina back in the day and recently
           | sold our full-timing Airstream.
           | https://www.wheelingit.us/2013/04/26/campsite-lottery-red-
           | ro...
        
         | GartzenDeHaes wrote:
         | It seems as if about the only things WA State Parks has
         | invested in for the past 40 years are parking lots and a new
         | headquarters building in Tumwater.
        
         | helipad wrote:
         | Likewise. Camping used to be spontaneous up until Covid. We
         | might book a popular site a few weeks in advance but only for
         | popular ones on holiday weekends.
         | 
         | Now they can be booked months in advance when you've no sense
         | of how available you'll be or what the weather will be like.
         | 
         | For Michigan's booking system, people also game it by booking
         | long stays that finish on the dates want (thus getting around
         | the "within 6 months" booking window) and then cancelling down
         | to the dates they want for a paltry cancellation fee, given how
         | in demand they are.
        
       | justinlloyd wrote:
       | Not a full-timer, just a casual enjoy-er about four days a month
       | of an RV kitted out how I want it.
       | 
       | An older model 38ft Class A diesel pusher with low mileage that
       | has no slides. These were specific choices. If I did it over,
       | it'd be a 32ft-er instead. No slides. Slides can fail. And the
       | interior design is often made purposefully cramped until you
       | deploy the slides. My RV is basically an open plan office &
       | kitchen with tile & wood flooring throughout. Though I am in the
       | process of ripping out the carpet in the bedroom because - it is
       | time. Not sure if I will go with tile, wood or tatami mats.
       | 
       | My RV sits two comfortably and sleeps two comfortably. Me and my
       | wife. Everybody else can walk. We simply don't take passengers or
       | ride alongs.
       | 
       | We pulled out the dinette, the built-in ice maker, the couch that
       | reclines and folds down into another bed, and every other
       | accoutrements that would accommodate six to eight people for a
       | two week vacation. Now there is so much more space for
       | activities. The dinette area turned in to a prep area with a
       | custom built cabinet underneath with lots of shallow drawers. I
       | can quite categorically state that the kitchen and prep area in
       | the RV is larger than the one in our condo and has way more
       | storage. The bathroom/dressing room is pretty comfortably sized
       | too. I pulled out the shower enclosure and put in a Japanese
       | soaking tub and a simple curtain rail for showers.
       | 
       | Interior is an eclectic mix between boho and traditional
       | Japanese. Full height sliding shoji screens with reinforced lexan
       | inserts (just in case someone left something on a countertop and
       | I need to slam on the brakes) that separate cockpit from living
       | area for privacy. Sliding shoji screen doors on bathroom and
       | bedroom. Sliding shoji screen window covers. All the 1980's era
       | country kitchen knobs, handles and pulls got replaced with either
       | custom made pulls or an eclectic mixture of cabinet pulls we have
       | found on our travels. Replaced all the external cabinet door
       | hinges interior euro-hinges. All the country kitchen woodwork got
       | sanded and repainted to a neutral white. Replaced all the
       | terrible "we cut a lot of corners" drawer slides with push to
       | open/soft-close slides.
       | 
       | We went with reasonably high-end appliances; GE Profile
       | fridge/freezer, cook top, microwave, dishwasher, Gaggenau high
       | BTU wok unit converted to propane, and a Bosch washer/dryer combo
       | unit in the bathroom. Wolf counter top oven (which also doubles
       | as our toaster). And then the usual collection of small
       | appliances that every kitchen has; rice maker, food mixer, food
       | processor, immersion blender, Wega Polaris 2 group machine,
       | teppanyaki grill plate that sits over the regular cook top. Built
       | a vented (to the outside) cat litter box into a cabinet in the
       | bathroom. Bunch of solar on the roof (that I need to get up there
       | and clean) and a lot of lithium in the basement to power all the
       | electronics. The one thing we don't have in our RV is a regular
       | TV screen, which means we don't have anything to point any of our
       | furniture at. Have been contemplating a composting toilet, which
       | would reduce our black water tank to pretty much just grey water
       | storage.
       | 
       | I put in two sit-to-stand electric desks, with Humanscale monitor
       | arms, and a Humanscale laptop arm. Both desks have dual 4K curved
       | displays and wireless accessories. Amazon has some nice mesh
       | workstation chairs that fold down and slide right under the desks
       | when not in use. Custom 19" rack mount cabinet. Ubiquiti Dream
       | Machine Pro SE with a couple of WiFi APs and a G3 doorbell
       | camera. APC LiIon UPS. ~24TB (30TB physical, 22.something TB
       | actual) flash-only Synology media server (music, movies & TV
       | shows) that automatically syncs to the Synology in the condo
       | whenever the RV connects to specific WiFi networks. We have a
       | WiFi booster antenna that will form a bridge for us to distant
       | networks - use a LinkSys with OpenWRT and some custom scripts to
       | make that happen. And we have a cellular booster for our T-Mobile
       | phones & hotspot with about 100GB of data per month.
       | 
       | Couple of e-bikes in the storage bay, my wife's reflector
       | telescope, and a tool chest of accessories and tools for RV
       | maintenance and those "aw, shit" moments of life, e.g. air
       | filters, emergency fluids, power washer, cordless drill, full set
       | of wrenches. We travel reasonably light (for an RV); no camping
       | gear, no deck chairs, very few clothing items, not a lot of extra
       | stuff that many RV'ers haul around with them.
       | 
       | I will agree with the article, you don't need anywhere near the
       | amount of stuff you think you need. I only have AAA and Good Sam
       | for the recovery/break down options, and some extra insurance in
       | case of a complete failure. Obviously remote work has made using
       | the RV a lot more possible than it did pre-COVID, though the
       | number of RV'ers has skyrocketed since before the pandemic.
        
       | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
       | I occasionally camp with van people and they make it look so
       | stressful. I can't imagine having a whole RV worth of things to
       | worry about.
       | 
       | I'm glad people are happy with 'em, but the more I learn about
       | that lifestyle the more I love my small pickup truck and hammock.
        
       | poorman wrote:
       | I've been doing van life for over a year while being a Director
       | of Engineering. This has involved a large amount of being on Zoom
       | calls. I figured it would be helpful for any engineers (or
       | managers) for me to break down some of my costs.
       | 
       | Internet
       | 
       | 1. Starlink internet [50GB/mo priority data, unlimited non-
       | priority] - $250 monthly / $2000+ for flat mount hardware. I
       | had/have the less-expensive RV/home dish (non-mobile) before the
       | mobile flat mount high performance dish came out. I can quickly
       | attach it to the Harbor Freight flag pole and hoist it above most
       | tree canopy if needed.
       | 
       | 2. T-mobile hotspot [50ish GB/mo] - Roughly $55 monthly. Works
       | great in cities with 5G.
       | 
       | 3. Verizon mobile router (Peplink) [300GB/mo] - $150 monthly for
       | the data plan from: https://mobilemusthave.com/
       | 
       | The reason I have all these is because I need redundant
       | connections to do my job. It's not acceptable to not have
       | internet one day. Also I use MultipathTCP to bond all my
       | connections together so my Zoom calls never drop (which used to
       | be a problem with Starlink, but less so now these days).
       | 
       | Fuel Costs
       | 
       | This is my greatest expense. I have a very heavy Sprinter van
       | that I built out myself. I get about 14 MPG diesel. It really
       | depends what State you are in on what the costs are and how much
       | you travel. The general consensus between all the people I've met
       | on the road (working full time) is that they put about 35k miles
       | on their vehicle per year.
       | 
       | Campgrounds
       | 
       | Really only pay for for these when on the East Coast since there
       | isn't as much BLM or USFS land.
       | 
       | Power
       | 
       | I have 600 amp hours of batteries with about 800 watts of solar
       | on my roof, 1320 watts of portable panels that I can set up when
       | I need to (mostly when I want to run the air conditioner 24 hours
       | a day). I also have a 3360 watt auxiliary alternator that will
       | charge the batteries real fast. The truth is I run a ton of
       | computer equipment and never really worry about power.
       | 
       | This lifestyle has been amazing. I used to feel stuck being an
       | engineer behind my desk all day. Now when I get tired of a town I
       | can simply move onto the next one. There's also some amazing
       | groups out there and I've actually made loads of friends across
       | the country doing this same lifestyle so we'll often meet up in
       | places. For example, Trent (who arguabily started the "Van Life
       | Gamers" movement) has a discord full of people that live this
       | lifestyle https://discord.gg/d4xsZEVH.
       | 
       | I would also say having a Sprinter Van has been so much better
       | than an RV because it's much easier to go places with the van
       | than a huge RV. I can park at a trail head for example in a
       | normal parking spot.
        
         | justinlloyd wrote:
         | * * *
        
         | paws wrote:
         | > MultipathTCP
         | 
         | Can you please share more about this? I've been curious to
         | build a router with redundant internet providers ever since I
         | noticed certain PCEngines boards supported LTE modem modules.
         | [0]]
         | 
         | I assume you're using Linux; do you wire all your modems via
         | Ethernet and manage MultipathTCP all in your router? Any
         | hardware offloading you're aware of/recommend?
         | 
         | [0] https://www.pcengines.ch/apu3c4.htm
        
           | poorman wrote:
           | I use OpenWrt on all my routers and switches.
           | https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/mptcp
           | 
           | And I run Proxmox with OpenWrt as my router inside on a
           | Odyssey Blue https://www.seeedstudio.com/Odyssey-
           | Blue-J4125-128GB-p-4921..... I specially chose all these
           | because they run on 12 volt so I don't need my inverter to
           | power them.
           | 
           | I have two managed switches --one is for PoE to power all my
           | security cameras and wireless APs in the van.
           | 
           | The reason I use OpenWrt and the managed switches is that
           | it's super simple to set up VLANs. Devices such as the
           | Starlink aren't super nice when it comes to being able to
           | configure network settings (maybe that's changed IDK). So the
           | ports on the switches do VLAN tagging and I'm able to
           | segregate all the network traffic including the multiple WANs
           | into one trunk line going into the router device (the one
           | running Proxmox with OpenWrt).
        
             | paws wrote:
             | Lovely, thank you!
        
         | redundantly wrote:
         | How do you handle bathroom needs (toilets, bathing, etc)?
        
           | poorman wrote:
           | I put a tile shower in my van (you can certainly do it much
           | lighter). I also have a Natures Head composting toilet (no
           | smells at all.. there's a tiny fan that circulates air
           | through a vent outside). Since I only have 30 gallons (4 of
           | those are in the hot-water heater) of fresh water that I can
           | cary, I'll use planet fitness showers a lot.
        
       | jetsnoc wrote:
       | I don't full-time or even part-time RV. I own a class-a 36'
       | diesel pusher. During the summer, I spend one month on the Oregon
       | coast, and during the winter, I go to Twenty-Nine Palms or Palm
       | Springs for one or two months. This allows me to fully immerse
       | myself in an area and explore national parks and new places for
       | an extended period.
       | 
       | I wish I would have known how stressful it can be. For me, It
       | feels like there is always a drag of stress - maybe a 30%
       | overhead of stress. If you suddenly don't have hot water, it is
       | on you to fix it because when you are "living" in it for that
       | period, someone won't be able to come to help you repair it for
       | several weeks. You can't even throw money at it, they just are
       | too busy and can't come out.
       | 
       | Driving can be stressful too. You get experienced to it after a
       | while but driving at night down a two-lane highway with diesel
       | trucks behind you, in front of you (another lane), and directly
       | to your left where the vortex pulls you in all while you're
       | trying to keep it in the lane can be stressful. Pulling into a
       | truck stop to fuel can be stressful.
       | 
       | I like to stick to around < 300 miles per day. I prefer to arrive
       | before it's dark. This means a 12-hour drive I would make in my
       | car can end up taking 2-3 days in the RV. I don't mind taking the
       | time now. I relax, unplug and enjoy it. It now relaxes me. I
       | would rather it take time than to worry about driving at night or
       | pulling into a spot at night.
       | 
       | The last few times we went we had two older dogs. One was having
       | seizures. We didn't know it yet but she had kidney failure and
       | had quit eating as much. We didn't notice her feeding habits at
       | home since the other dog was a jerk, eating her portions without
       | us knowing. The trip was fortunate because we got to see
       | everything up close and in person. I have a slight deficiency in
       | object permanence and for them to be right there in my face, we
       | were able to see it. The other dog -- nicknamed Pigbert now --
       | was having serious issues with his arthritis. He would randomly
       | screech due to pain. A steroid for two weeks solved it quickly.
       | 
       | If you combine those things with the 30% constant drag of stress
       | it can be very unpleasant. No hot water, caring for dogs in
       | crisis, and stressful drives all lead to something that is quite
       | unmanageable.
       | 
       | My advice is to just be aware of managing stressors and ensuring
       | you have as few as possible on travel days. My other advice is -
       | if it sounds like it is for you - DO IT. I have backpacked Europe
       | and traveled to very nice resorts. None of them top the amazing
       | experiences I have had on the road. I won't personally live in
       | that small of a space full-time or part-time but I admire those
       | that do it.
        
         | stopnamingnuts wrote:
         | This is a pretty good summary of how I feel and why I dig my
         | heels in every time my wife starts talking about a new camper,
         | a boat or whatever. I suspect she envisions it like a magazine
         | cover: better, carefree versions of ourselves enjoying the
         | sunshine with friends (who are ideally green with envy).
         | 
         | I see myself disassembling the toilet.
        
           | stewarts wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | jetsnoc wrote:
         | This isn't a stressor, just an observation. Another thing I
         | would share is that most of the people on the road are twice my
         | age. This can be a pleasure when you meet unique people who
         | like you because you remind them of their grandkids which means
         | they spoil you with meals and stories. This can also be a
         | nightmare where they are retired, have nothing to do but
         | complain and there is a major generational difference in how
         | they understand and respect your same-sex marriage.
        
         | varelse wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | There's an entire association around the stressors involved -
         | https://www.goodsam.com
         | 
         | And always remember that if it gets too bad for a while there's
         | no shame in stopping at a hotel for a night or two.
        
       | varelse wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | The best RVing advice I was given was to not buy an RV and buy a
       | pull trailer instead which somewhat correlates to the TFA's
       | "bigger is not always better". RVs get horrible gas mileage, and
       | are not easy to drive around. This is why you see a lot of RVs
       | pulling trailers with a smaller car on it. The trailer route
       | allows you to drop off the trailer and then use the pulling
       | vehicle separately. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but people I
       | know that have RVs use them less than the people I know that have
       | trailers.
        
         | vl wrote:
         | I upgraded from trailer to the motorhome and everything turned
         | out to be more trickier on the motorhome.
         | 
         | But there are benefits as well - it's way more comfortable for
         | passengers, and it's easier to setup on arrival.
        
         | mattmaroon wrote:
         | I've got a 35' travel trailer I live in usually for 4-6 months
         | at a time for this reason. The benefits:
         | 
         | 1. Just one engine to take care of. If you have a motor home,
         | you're towing a car too. So that's two sets of drivetrains with
         | all of the maintenance and expense that goes with it.
         | 
         | 2. Easy to replace the drive part. If my truck dies I can just
         | get another truck. The trailer lives on. Whole lot easier than
         | dealing with what happens when an RV dies.
         | 
         | 3. More maneuverable (though also harder to learn to tow if
         | you're not already used to it) because it pivots at the point
         | where it connects to the vehicle.
         | 
         | 4. Much cheaper in the long run. A diesel 3/4 or full ton truck
         | barely depreciates at all in absolute dollars even in normal
         | times. RVs can't say that at all. If you buy a camper and a
         | pickup you can probably sell them in five years for most of
         | what you put into them.
        
           | Johnny555 wrote:
           | _Much cheaper in the long run_
           | 
           | That's assuming that you actually want or need a truck (or
           | other tow vehicle large enough to pull your trailer). I went
           | with a motorhome (but don't pull a car) because my other care
           | is a small EV, and I don't really have a use for a truck or
           | other large vehicle.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | >3. More maneuverable (though also harder to learn to tow if
           | you're not already used to it) because it pivots at the point
           | where it connects to the vehicle.
           | 
           | 5th wheel trailers help with this (so I've been told by
           | family members that have them).
        
             | Beldin wrote:
             | Wasn't familiar with this concept. Funny though: in my
             | language, "5th wheel (on a car)" refers to someone being as
             | useful as... well, the 5th wheel on a car, i.e., not useful
             | at all. The "on a car" part is often left out.
             | 
             | (Sidenote for anyone wanting to argue the usefulness of 5th
             | wheels: I'm not my language designated responsible for
             | sayings and common phrasings. Also: 5th wheels tend to be
             | the emergency spare wheels - which obviously do have a
             | use.)
        
             | stewarts wrote:
             | They don't affect maneuverability all that much when
             | compared to a standard travel trailer. However, you get a
             | lot more living space in the same effective length due to
             | the portion between your pin and rear truck bumper being
             | now livable space.
             | 
             | They do however TOW quite a bit better than a travel
             | trailer as far as comfort. Going from a 28ft TT to a 40ft
             | Toy Hauler yielded a lot better towing/reduction in driver
             | fatigue over long trips (also went from a half-ton truck to
             | 1-ton, so some differences just there as well).
        
             | dreamcompiler wrote:
             | Can confirm. I've been fifth wheeling for >20 years.
             | They're much easier to tow and you don't need as much
             | length behind the tow vehicle for an equivalent amount of
             | space (because the bedroom is usually above the hitch
             | point). They're also much easier to hook up in the first
             | place because you don't have to repeatedly back up the
             | truck "blind" to get the tow vehicle into the perfect spot.
             | 
             | Fifth wheels can seem scary to people who are not familiar
             | with them, but the benefits are numerous if you can
             | overcome that fear.
        
               | msisk6 wrote:
               | I can also confirm. A fifth-wheel trailer with the proper
               | size truck is very stable; even in severe cross-winds.
               | 
               | I use a gooseneck adapter on my RV since my farm trailer
               | uses that and it's a bit more difficult to hitch up but
               | you get used to it quickly.
               | 
               | Before COVID used fifth-wheels were very cheap -- my
               | current one is a 2016 model I bought used for $17k in
               | 2019. Things are a bit more expensive now but I figure
               | the used market will probably go back to normal by next
               | year.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | _RVs get horrible gas mileage, and are not easy to drive
         | around._
         | 
         | Guess what else gets horrible mileage when you hook a trailer
         | to it? I'll put our 26' Sprinter class C's 15mpg up against
         | anything pulling something larger than a pod trailer. And after
         | I did some much-needed suspension upgrades, the thing drives
         | like a car. Best of all, I don't have to pull a trailer. We use
         | ours a fair amount because all we do is toss food in the
         | fridge, turn the key and go.
         | 
         | A lot of the reason I see for pulling a car (often referred to
         | as a "toad". "towed", get it?), is so one doesn't have to roll
         | everything up just to go see the sights.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | You forgot the second half of the quote you pulled: "and are
           | not easy to drive around".
        
             | mikestew wrote:
             | _And after I did some much-needed suspension upgrades, the
             | thing drives like a car._ , or am I not understanding your
             | point?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Sorry, I should have quoted that last line:
               | 
               | >A lot of the reason I see for pulling a car (often
               | referred to as a "toad". "towed", get it?), is so one
               | doesn't have to roll everything up just to go see the
               | sights.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. And your point
               | stands; I'm probably one of dozens who has gone to the
               | trouble of fixing the wobbling mess that is most stock RV
               | suspension.
               | 
               | (And if you have a Sprinter-based Class C: Sumo Springs
               | front and rear, Fox rear shocks with more rebound
               | damping, and if I had to do it over I'd skip the larger
               | sway bar.)
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | That's a huge difference - an RV that does _not_ expand or
           | really hook up is much easier to just jump into and go
           | somewhere than one that folds out until it 's larger than a
           | Manhattan apartment.
           | 
           | And both can be supplemented by auxiliary transportation
           | (bikes, motorbikes, small car).
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | Just get a Tacoma or Tundra and put a Kimbo on it. Drive
         | everywhere, even the cities.
        
           | cmclaughlin wrote:
           | Many camp sites don't let you leave Kimbo style campers
           | behind. For that reason I prefer a towable.
        
           | zucked wrote:
           | Don't get a Tacoma for this - a Kimbo weighs upwards of 1k
           | lbs, right at the limit of a Tacoma's payload capacity. Add
           | in fuel, people, water, anything else heavy and you're above
           | the rated capacity before you know it.
        
             | GartzenDeHaes wrote:
             | Also, you are uninsured if you exceed your vehicle's towing
             | or gross weight rating. It's in the fine print of your
             | insurance binder, something about using the vehicle IAW
             | manufacturer's recommendations.
             | 
             | EDIT: And yes, the insurance company will weigh your
             | equipment after an accident.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | This was my disappointment with my Tacoma. For the size of
             | the truck itself, the towing is very limited. I know they
             | would rather you buy a Tundra, but a Tacoma's towing isn't
             | much better than my '85 Chevy S-10. That's just really sad
             | when you compare the sizes of a Tacoma and an S-10
        
           | dieselgate wrote:
           | Tacomas have small beds compared to other trucks. It's all
           | trade offs though. Slide in campers can b nice but are more
           | difficult to decouple from the vehicle than a bumper pull.
           | Bumper pulls or even fifth wheel campers have the benefit of
           | being much larger when people need more space.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Yeah, Tacomas are weird hybrid trucks. It's a full sized
             | truck in every way except the bed. The loss of the smaller
             | truck like the S-10 makes me sad. I miss my S-10.
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | See, we went with the class A specifically because we didn't
         | want to pull a car and Uber made it so easy to get a ride.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Hmm, having difficulties finding you a driver at the Grand
           | Canyon.
           | 
           | I've never had success with a ride service outside of a city,
           | and outside of cities is where RV sites that people are
           | interested in tend to be located.
        
           | phantom784 wrote:
           | Do you not go to national parks and other similar places
           | where you wouldn't be able to get an Uber?
        
         | soligern wrote:
         | The thing that has worked for me is going the trailer route
         | with my lightning. You can get 60-70% charge overnight (since I
         | power the trailer with the lightning) with one of the KOA RV
         | outlets included with the camping spot price. KOAs are a bit
         | pricier than a mom and pop but totally worth it for the extra
         | $7-10 you might pay per night because they're cleaner, have
         | great restroom facilities and I can drive a whole day on the
         | charge.
        
           | enjoylife wrote:
           | How is the range when pulling your trailer? From what I read
           | the reduction is steep?
        
             | soligern wrote:
             | You can do around 100 miles a day on 70% and that's more
             | than enough for me the way I'm traveling. I have the
             | extended capacity model. It also really depends on the
             | route, with a lot of downhills you can probably get closer
             | to 180 miles on 70%. On a cool night when you can just
             | leave a window open on the trailer (so you don't need to
             | power it), you can get a full charge and that will get you
             | around 200 miles a day while towing on something that has a
             | decent amount of downhill.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Are you driving one-way? How do you have a route that is
               | a lot of downhills without uphills? Are you starting at
               | the continental divide?
        
               | dreamcompiler wrote:
               | I don't have a lightning but have been thinking about
               | getting one. Thanks for the report.
               | 
               | One thing I thought about is that if I want to go
               | someplace farther than 100 miles, I could just drop the
               | trailer in a parking lot, recharge the truck at a nearby
               | DCFC, then re-hook and be on my way. I've done this on
               | occasion to refuel an ICE tow vehicle at a too-small gas
               | station, and I don't see why it wouldn't work with a
               | lightning.
        
               | sujinge9 wrote:
               | So is your itinerary to go from KOA to KOA in 100 mile
               | increments? Are there ever times when there isn't a KOA
               | ~100 miles in the direction you want to go?
        
               | throitallaway wrote:
               | Other campgrounds besides KOAs offer 50 amp service.
        
               | voisin wrote:
               | What's the range on your Lightning without the trailer?
               | What's the weight of the trailer?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | seattle_spring wrote:
       | Question for all the RVers here on HN: why do so many of you
       | refuse to use designated pull outs? The ones specifically created
       | for vehicles like yours to move over and let the dozen+ cars
       | behind you pass so they can go more than 20 under the speed
       | limit. Many RVs I encounter even go out of their way to prevent
       | passing. I don't really understand it, and it seems like an RV-
       | specific behavior.
        
         | codybontecou wrote:
         | I noticed the slow (right) lanes in California are the most
         | beat-up. My guess is because the shipping trucks use them. This
         | could be a possibility as well.
        
           | jjav wrote:
           | At least in California, slower vehicles are required to use
           | the nearest pull-out lane if there are 5 cars or more stuck
           | behind them.
           | 
           | https://california.public.law/codes/ca_veh_code_section_2165.
           | ..
        
             | jwagenet wrote:
             | Perhaps this is the law, but unlike some other states,
             | there is rarely signage to remind drivers (though I doubt
             | even still it would the followed or enforced).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | uudecoded wrote:
         | As a 25 foot Class C RV driver, I've encountered what you
         | describe from heavy trucks, Class A's, other Class C's,
         | Priuses, and Teslas. It's all over the place. I have to have a
         | certain calm about it, especially on summer weekends on
         | 101/SR2/SR20/etc in Washington.
         | 
         | The thing people don't realize is that speed limit advisory
         | signs (on turns or downhills usually) are essentially mandatory
         | for high CG vehicles - to avoid rollover risk.
         | 
         | To help you understand some reasons to refuse a pullout, here
         | are the conditions that I think must be true for an RV or heavy
         | truck to safely and practically use a pullout: (Maybe I'm
         | missing something)
         | 
         | 1) Vehicle is slower than the speed limit or lower than the
         | safety speed advisory by more than 10 mph. (Yes, this is
         | annoying for people that want to exceed the speed limit, but
         | they can use passing lanes.)
         | 
         | 2) Pullout must be visibly paved and clear for entry in advance
         | of safe braking distance. (This is often a problem.)
         | 
         | 3) The pullout must have good visibility behind it so the
         | vehicle can safely get back up to speed from 0 after stopping.
         | (Sometimes a problem.)
         | 
         | 4) Traffic must be light enough such that rejoining the travel
         | lane is feasible in less than a couple minutes. (This is often
         | a problem.)
         | 
         | 5) The pullout must have a safe path to return to the travel
         | lane. (I have had to balk pullout attempts after nearing the
         | pullout because this is not always immediately clear at a
         | distance.)
         | 
         | 6) Most importantly, the vehicle must not be followed either at
         | an unsafe distance or by someone driving erratically. (I am not
         | going to risk damage to my vehicle by braking for someone
         | following too closely.)
         | 
         | edit:formatting
        
           | gffrd wrote:
           | > in Washington
           | 
           | Ah, Washington drivers! Paying no attention at all until
           | someone nears their space, then all of a sudden VERY
           | attentive and territorial yet unwilling to be actually
           | aggressive, so instead just kind of interfering.
           | 
           | Highway driving at its finest.
        
         | jstarfish wrote:
         | > Many RVs I encounter even go out of their way to prevent
         | passing.
         | 
         | Only you would know, but this _could_ be something other than
         | what it seems like.
         | 
         | When I had a motorcycle, I'd tail a slow vehicle for miles in
         | anticipation of a passing zone. When we got there, they'd all
         | of a sudden accelerate-- which I always assumed was them
         | fucking with me, until one day I realized I do the same thing
         | myself when in a car.
         | 
         | We speed up when we perceive it is safe to do so (long
         | stretches of straight road), similar to unconsciously letting
         | off the gas when you notice a cop running a speed trap.
         | 
         | If this is what you encounter, it may be an unconscious thing,
         | or the RV driver consciously speeding up for your convenience.
         | If they're swerving, consider that they're tall and wind pushes
         | them around easily.
         | 
         | But they could also just be dicks, sure.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | passing lanes usually open up on straight stretches of road
           | with good visibility. Its like, here we are twisty, turning,
           | and the speed limit is like 35 around these curves, and then
           | we get to a 2 lane stretch straight up a hill with the 55
           | speed limit. What are we supposed to do?
        
           | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
           | > When I had a motorcycle, I'd tail a slow vehicle for miles
           | in anticipation of a passing zone. When we got there, they'd
           | all of a sudden accelerate-- which I always assumed was them
           | fucking with me, until one day I realized I do the same thing
           | myself when in a car.
           | 
           | There's a mountain pass I travel a few times a year where
           | this happens.
           | 
           | The limit is 45 mph throughout the curves, and that's a
           | reasonable speed, though I prefer to go a bit faster, but
           | will inevitably get stuck behind someone going 35.
           | 
           | We reach a point where there's a passing lane, and the limit
           | is 55 mph. I try to pass the person that was going 35 mph
           | before, and suddenly they seem to think that 70 mph is a
           | reasonable speed. I _have_ to pass these people regardless of
           | how fast they want to go when there 's a passing lane,
           | because otherwise, I'll get stuck behind them once the
           | passing lane ends and they decide to drop back down to 10
           | under the limit.
           | 
           | Luckily, these days, I have a car that can easily pass 98% of
           | the other cars on the road, and the remaining 2% are already
           | going at speed.
        
         | nsxwolf wrote:
         | What is a "pull out"? I've never heard of this. I googled and
         | it comes up with pull out beds for RVs.
        
           | Johnny555 wrote:
           | They are also called "turnout lanes".
           | 
           | Often they are a short paved lane meant for slow vehicles to
           | pull off onto to allow slower traffic to pass, but often on
           | mountain roads, it's a gravel off-road area that serves the
           | same purpose. But pulling into one can be a bumpy ride, and
           | the gravel service means it's hard to accelerate quickly
           | until you get fully back on the road so you need to be sure
           | you have a lot of clear space behind you (which can be hard
           | to ensure on twisty mountain roads).
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/sKLhtlO_aZs
        
             | njarboe wrote:
             | Often not gravel, especially in California.
        
         | mindslight wrote:
         | I'd imagine it's because it takes so much effort and gas to
         | asymptote up to 40mph or whatever, that they can't fathom
         | electing to stop and do it all again. Most tractor trailers
         | have a large enough engine to handle going up hills with common
         | cargo at highway speeds (exceptions exist, of course). From
         | what I've observed, most RV's just don't.
         | 
         | I spent several months living out of my car+tent in national
         | parks/forests and often referred to them as Ruins Views.
         | Breathtaking scenery in those national parks, that you can't
         | focus on when you're stuck in a line of twenty cars riding your
         | brakes and smelling theirs, because Big Bob doesn't want to get
         | his tippy palace going too fast.
         | 
         | I do get the appeal, but lugging around so much tonnage seems
         | like a recipe for a bad time. Now I'm at a different life stage
         | where I've been doing a bunch of towing with an underpowered
         | SUV, and I make it a point to get out of peoples' ways. Luckily
         | most of that has been on multilane highways where it's easy to
         | do so.
        
           | massysett wrote:
           | If you're driving you just can't focus on scenery period, no
           | matter how many cars you're stuck behind. Whenever I ride as
           | a passenger on roads I drive every day, I'm amazed at the
           | details outside that I don't see when I'm driving.
           | 
           | Just keeping a car on a road with no traffic takes a fair
           | amount of focus: for evidence, just see how many people don't
           | do it and plow into objects that are alongside the road.
        
             | mindslight wrote:
             | These kind of comments trying to invoke some hobby horse
             | ("safe driving") by taking a word out of context are _soooo
             | web forum_.
             | 
             | Obviously, driving requires attention and is always one's
             | main focus. Having driven various sizes of vehicles, it's
             | quite clear that this amount of attention varies. For
             | example, the sheer amount of work required to drive a 26
             | foot box truck gave me a healthy respect for truck drivers.
             | On the original topic, I'd imagine a lot of RV drivers
             | don't pull over or are actively hostile to being passed
             | because they're so overwhelmed they don't want to pile on
             | any more requirements. And while this means that they
             | _should_ be taking the opportunity to stop and recover, try
             | telling someone who is drowning to stop thrashing.
             | 
             | Piloting a 2500 lb manual coupe barefoot in a non-wooded
             | area on an empty road requires the lowest amount of work
             | I've experienced. Driving that same car while having to
             | continually gauge how hard the person in front of you is
             | applying the brakes takes much more. Braking extra and
             | creating more buffer room gives a slight reprieve, but at
             | the ailing speeds ruins views tend to go on non-straight
             | roads you'll inevitably catch right back up.
        
               | massysett wrote:
               | The person driving the RV that you're complaining about
               | has just as much right to enjoy the national park as you
               | do. My point is that if you want to enjoy the scenery,
               | you need to get out of the driver's seat.
        
         | JohnDotAwesome wrote:
         | As an RV-driver, I try my best to use the pull outs when I can.
         | There are a few complications, though.
         | 
         | First is the visibility of these pull-outs is often very poor.
         | You'll be driving through long winding roads and then all of
         | the sudden the pull-out appears. In an RV, you can't just slam
         | on the breaks and swerve into the pullout, ESPECIALLY if you're
         | going downhill.
         | 
         | Second, often times (in the USA at least), these pull-outs have
         | rough terrain going in an and out of them. There will be a
         | little bump or uneven ground that most vehicles wouldn't mind
         | hitting every now and then, but in my rig, that causes the
         | whole thing to sway back and forth (Class-C built on a Mercedes
         | Sprinter). I REALLY need to upgrade the suspension.
         | 
         | Third is time. Since I'm slower than everyone else, people tend
         | to pile up behind me pretty quickly. Pulling into the pull-out,
         | coming to a complete stop, waiting for everyone to pass, then
         | getting back up to speed takes a long time. If I did this every
         | time there was a car behind me, it would take forever. So, I
         | tend to wait until there's more than a few cars behind me
         | before pulling off.
         | 
         | Fourth is my wife. She says I have "overly-considerate
         | disorder" and I need to make our safety #1 and stop caring
         | about other people so damn much.
        
           | wesleytodd wrote:
           | Hey John!! Wes here, sitting in the shade of my RV right now.
           | Funny to hear the last line, because mine says the same thing
           | about when I am driving. And when she is driving she
           | literally tell me "fuck em, I will drive how I want" lol.
        
             | darig wrote:
             | [dead]
        
             | JohnDotAwesome wrote:
             | New number, whodis
        
             | e40 wrote:
             | _> "fuck em, I will drive how I want"_
             | 
             | Says the same thing to people in the US (and elsewhere??)
             | that drive in the freeway's fast lane holding everyone up
             | for MILES. That is one of the most annoying things I face
             | regularly on the road.
        
               | wesleytodd wrote:
               | I hate people who do this, nd it is probably why my wife
               | has such a reaction, it is more about me pestering her
               | too much than her actually wanting to ride in the fast
               | lane. Backseat driving is a bad habit of mine.
               | 
               | But one thing I have learned by driving 50k miles these
               | past few years is that you _never_ actually get there
               | meaningfully faster. So really, everyone is better off if
               | they just slow down and hit that cruise control.
        
               | idopmstuff wrote:
               | > But one thing I have learned by driving 50k miles these
               | past few years is that you never actually get there
               | meaningfully faster. So really, everyone is better off if
               | they just slow down and hit that cruise control.
               | 
               | Depends what you're driving on. If it's a freeway where
               | you're going to hit stretches of traffic anyway or roads
               | where there's stop signs and lights, sure. When I'm on
               | the 5 going from SF to SD, though, yeah, the clown who's
               | doing 60 in the left lane for miles while holding me up
               | is very much increasing the amount of time I have to
               | spend on the road.
        
               | cassac wrote:
               | The US version (varies by state) of the fast lane is
               | garbage which is why nobody follows it. If you want a
               | passing lane then you need a non passing lane and I don't
               | think US drivers are willing to make that concession.
        
               | porkbeer wrote:
               | Typically, you stay out of the left lane unless passing
               | in the US. It's that easy. In many states, the person
               | failing to yeild to faster traffic is ticketed, but not
               | all.
        
           | paulirwin wrote:
           | Definitely agree with the first and second points above. I
           | absolutely will if I can see it with enough time to safely
           | slow the RV, and the terrain doesn't look like I might blow a
           | tire or damage the RV doing it. I'm usually less concerned
           | about time when traveling in the RV. I try to do what I can
           | to build up good karma with other drivers, but it's not
           | always a good idea to pull off.
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | Beldin wrote:
             | No, not really.
             | 
             | Your own safety is concern #1 when driving. For a very
             | simple reason: if you're not safe yourself, you cannot make
             | it safer for others.
             | 
             | Others will have different ideas on what is safe. They may
             | feel comfortable breaking traffic rules or pushing you(r
             | vehicle) past your/its safety limits. Some have new cars
             | and new tires and can go much faster than others in
             | slippery conditions.
             | 
             | Spoiler: none of that is ever an excuse. Not with traffic
             | police, not with accident investigators, not with emergency
             | services. I don't know what condition your vehicle is in. I
             | don't know how worn out your brakes are, how much grip your
             | tires have. I don't know what happens in your car above
             | that certain speed. I don't need to know; I need to be able
             | to rely on you to operate your vehicle sufficiently safely.
             | That is: such that it doesn't make the roads less safe for
             | me.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Is it really RV specific behavior?
         | 
         | In my experience most drivers are not very aware of their
         | surroundings and just seem to do stupid things like form
         | rolling roadblocks by accident. I wonder if RVs are just more
         | noticeable because they are longer, and so their accidental
         | traps tend to be bigger. The other vehicles that size are
         | typically driven by professionals, who are at least a little
         | more with-it. Usually.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I refer to it as hippof*cking when two or more large vehicles
           | are blocking both lanes of traffic.
           | 
           | Usually doesn't bother me as much, and if I had adaptive
           | cruise I'd be even less unbothered, but it can be annoying.
           | 
           | RVs are like moving rental trucks, the drivers of them don't
           | really know what they're doing.
        
             | chrisdhoover wrote:
             | Elephant racing
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | My big pet peeve about RVs is when they're in the mountains on
         | 2 lane roads and insist on driving with a foot of their RV over
         | the centerline when going around blind curves.
         | 
         | I used to live in a small tourist town, and people died on a
         | regular basis because of RVs doing that. You could spot the
         | local drivers because they're the ones hugging the fog line
         | when going around a bend.
        
           | MarkMarine wrote:
           | I don't think people insist on it, it's just very technically
           | challenging to drive any larger vehicle precisely. A Semi, a
           | dump-truck, probably anything with air brakes, these have
           | more stringent licenses and testing. You have to learn to
           | drive them. You can go out today and buy a 3500 diesel truck
           | that can tow 30,000 lbs, weighs close to 10,000 lbs on its
           | own, a crew cab with a long bed coupled to a massive RV that
           | is 45 feet long with triple axles, and the only thing you
           | need to drive that is to have passed a driving test when you
           | were 16 in your mom's Honda Civic.
           | 
           | Many RVs are 8.5 feet wide. Common highway lanes are 10 feet
           | wide. There are curvy highways like route 1 that I swear are
           | only 9' wide. I worry more about line selection and holding
           | my rig inside the yellows than I worry about line selection
           | when I'm racing my motorcycle. It's challenging for me and I
           | drive things as a sport. I'm not covering for someone who
           | went over the yellows, that's unforgivable, but I wanted to
           | add some context for you.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | Oh, I really do understand. When I lived in that town, I
             | also had an RV and drove it on those same roads. It is
             | challenging. What I (and most of the locals) would do,
             | though, was to go very slowly around those bends. That
             | takes a lot of the danger out of it.
             | 
             | In fact, there are advisory speed signs for those curves
             | that are accurate -- if people followed them, there would
             | rarely be an issue. Part of the problem, I think, is that
             | if you're driving a car, those advisory speeds are far too
             | slow (15-20 MPH on a 50 MPH road), but if you're driving an
             | RV or big rig, those advisory speeds are critical. I think
             | most non-pro drivers are used to driving cars and have
             | trained themselves to ignore those signs.
             | 
             | I honestly think that people should have special training
             | to be allowed to drive RVs, or at least the larger RVs.
             | Something like a motorcycle tag.
             | 
             | > Common highway lanes are 10 feet wide.
             | 
             | These roads are also narrower than modern ones (they are
             | some of the earliest "highways" built in the state). When I
             | drove an RV on them, I tended to white-knuckle it. They're
             | rather nervous-making.
        
         | wesleytodd wrote:
         | It depends. If it is a passing lane and the RV is not passing,
         | shame on them. If it is a small pullout you often cannot slow
         | down fast enough to catch it unless you are really paying
         | attention for it. Remember, slowing down a big rig (especially
         | one with all your belongings in it) can be near impossible to
         | do. But mainly the reason is probably that there is no training
         | or licensing required to teach folks how to drive these things.
        
         | psytrx wrote:
         | These lanes and pull outs aren't common everywhere. When I
         | visited NZ, it took me a day or two to realize they had a
         | purpose. RVers usually are not driving in their home country.
         | 
         | I just recently tried to use the side lane in DK to let others
         | pass (set signal, decelerate, pull over as far as possible). It
         | actually confused the other drivers so much that they didn't
         | dare to take over, even when there was lots of space to do so.
        
           | seattle_spring wrote:
           | They're all over the western US, very frequently with several
           | signs notifying drivers that one is coming up.
        
             | activiation wrote:
             | I never seen those in the US or Canada... I've been mostly
             | on the east coast though
        
               | MSFT_Edging wrote:
               | Seconded, I was really confused until I watched a video
               | shared. Never seen one of those in my life and I've done
               | a lot of back road driving on the east coast. Typically
               | we'll just have labeled passing zones.
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | What I wish I knew, don't bother with the RV. Get something like
       | a nice airstream trailer and a capable vehicle to pull it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | j2bax wrote:
         | Second this! We also found an added benefit of not going longer
         | than the 22 footer (assuming a F150 with short bed towing) is
         | that you can typically fit across two parking spots which opens
         | up your options when you stop quite a lot.
        
       | coding123 wrote:
       | Wow, this really should be updated to 2023.
       | 
       | Here's what my list would be: (full time for 7 years, now
       | building a house so I don't need full time RVing ever again).
       | 
       | 1. RV parks are full, they converted almost all the nightly sites
       | to monthlys to guarantee revenue. RV Parks are the new mobile
       | home park but with monthly RVers who got wind of the "Gone with
       | the Wynns" blog and cheaper cost of living.
       | 
       | 2. RV Park nightly rates have literally gone from $35 a night to
       | $70 a night during the 2020s -> 2023s. A lot of the time you're
       | the one that showed up paying $70 per day and all the loud blubs
       | next door are paying $10 per night at the monthly rate.
       | 
       | 3. Free camping areas are getting shut down after sites like
       | "campendium" have advertised them to everyone. Most of the
       | problems are related to illegal gray and black tank dumping on
       | public lands.
       | 
       | 4. Quartzsite is an absolute shit-show now, it's still probably
       | worth going, but it's crowded. I wouldn't be surprised if they
       | shut down the free areas in the next few years over the same
       | gray/black tank issues.
       | 
       | 5. Internet problems are 1000% solved with Starlink now.
       | 
       | 6. Solar does not power the A/C. To power the A/C you need 10+
       | residential solar panels and a $2000 inverter on a 48 volt
       | system. There are ways to have a 48 volt battery and down-
       | regulate to 12v for the rest of your RV. People that run A/C off
       | solar have "special ways" to have that many residential panels,
       | typically involving fold outs and trailers.
       | 
       | 7. Gas prices have skyrocketed in CA so it's not worth going
       | anywhere near the state - let alone find a park that's cheap.
       | 
       | RV Progression
       | 
       | Cedar Creek 5th Wheel (2 years) -> Arctic Fox TC 1150 (5 years)
       | -> Alliance Paradigm (1 year) -> building house
        
         | poorman wrote:
         | > 6. Solar does not power the A/C. To power the A/C you need
         | 10+ residential solar panels and a $2000 inverter on a 48 volt
         | system. There are ways to have a 48 volt battery and down-
         | regulate to 12v for the rest of your RV. People that run A/C
         | off solar have "special ways" to have that many residential
         | panels, typically involving fold outs and trailers.
         | 
         | I have not found this to be true. I run a Cruise N Comfort 12v
         | AC and it works great (most it uses is about 60amps at 12v
         | which I run off my solar panels). See my post here
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36408382
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | Living in a van is either a necessity if you're very poor, or
       | it's a luxury if you're rich.
       | 
       | If you really understand what living in a RV or a van really
       | involves, you quickly realize several things:
       | 
       | * If you plan a long journey, it's still a lot of time spent on
       | the road, and gas money. So it's not about just living in the
       | wild, it's just driving and sleeping, which is not that great,
       | and it's not what people mean when they mean to live in a van.
       | It's a home that can move, but it's not meant to travel.
       | 
       | * It's better to keep a real home, use a station wagon to sleep
       | in it or carry stuff, a bicycle, a tent etc, and not go too far
       | from your home and still enjoy the wilderness, and do this for
       | several months and still enjoy being in the wild without using a
       | RV or van. A station wagon is not the full luxury, but it's still
       | pretty nice.
       | 
       | The trend is on vans which are smaller RVs, but I really thing
       | using a station wagon is largely enough.
        
         | voisin wrote:
         | > and gas money
         | 
         | I cannot stress enough how absurdly expensive it is to keep an
         | RV moving on the road. They are built in by far the least
         | weight efficient manner imaginable and consume gas or diesel as
         | if prices hadn't changed since 1986. It is wild how little
         | manufacturers have spent on R&D to come up with more weight
         | efficient solutions.
        
       | digdugdirk wrote:
       | Anyone living the nomadic lifestyle on here who would be willing
       | to share their general setup, monthly costs, and any
       | tips/tricks/advice?
        
         | oregoncurtis wrote:
         | Also curious. I was looking locally for some sort of
         | meetup/show where I could see people builds, ask about cost,
         | etc. Sadly I just missed an expo the previous weekend.
        
         | shrubble wrote:
         | It's going to be more expensive than you think, if you try to
         | live in it the way you would in a regular apartment or house.
         | The need for lightness in construction means there are
         | compromises that you will have to work around.
         | 
         | I found Visible to be fast enough at 5mbps for most things. I
         | hooked up a Wifi router to serve as a client for those cases
         | where I wasn't tethering.
         | 
         | I think it is tougher when you try to work a remote job, since
         | you basically do everything in the same small space. Eat cook
         | work sleep read etc all in the same x square feet.
        
         | kylixz wrote:
         | I did this for about 2 years across the United States. If
         | you're employed, make sure your manager is supportive/already
         | remote friendly.
         | 
         | Get good internet. I found Verizon to be the best for cellular
         | and this was before Starlink Mobile was available. Get a
         | directional cellular antenna and mount (not a
         | repeater/amplifier) and learn how to point the antenna at
         | towers if you plan to do any "boondocking" out in the west of
         | the US. Otherwise, everywhere else these days likely has
         | internet.
         | 
         | Compost Toilet is a win in my book. Very little maintenance and
         | no nasty tanks to deal with. But, it's not for everyone.
         | 
         | Decide if you need showers in your wheeled home or not. That
         | drives the cost of your rig significantly. Most RVs are
         | absolute trash for quality south of $50k.
        
           | carabiner wrote:
           | > south of $50k
           | 
           | "South" to mean down or below, and likewise for north, drives
           | me up a wall. If you are standing at the south pole, north is
           | down. There's also no concept of up/down in space, and so
           | northern hemisphere normalcy is false. To Australians, North
           | America is below!
        
             | post-it wrote:
             | Having trouble with figures of speech has been linked to
             | schizophrenia. e.g. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10
             | .3389/fpsyg.2018.0067...
        
             | EA-3167 wrote:
             | Up a wall? Why not down a wall or across it?
        
             | karaterobot wrote:
             | And yet you know exactly what they mean when they say it,
             | indicating maybe it's a useful convention, even if
             | imperfect.
        
             | technothrasher wrote:
             | And if you turn around, left and right change places...
             | woah.
             | 
             | Snide comment aside, it's obviously in reference to
             | standard map orientation. Maps had to be oriented _somehow_
             | , unless you're advocating for the chaos of arbitrary
             | individual map orientations.
        
             | GlumWoodpecker wrote:
             | On a conventionally oriented map, south is always down, and
             | north is always up. "Down south" and "up north" are also
             | very common phrases when discussing relative geographical
             | locations, due to the same reason.
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | > Most RVs are absolute trash for quality south of $50k.
           | 
           | It sounds like the pandemic generated such a crush of orders
           | that now even more expensive ones are slapped together at the
           | factory.
           | 
           | Mercedes Streeter at The Autopian (spiritual heir to
           | Jalopnik) has been looking at her parents' new RV.
           | 
           | https://www.theautopian.com/my-familys-62800-camper-is-
           | junk-...
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | They always have been. THey're death traps. Super flimsy.
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | There's this notion with many of these solutions that we
               | could rent a few hours from Yellowstone, the parents
               | could get up at the crack of dawn and drive while the
               | kids sleep. Wake up kids, that's Yellowstone up ahead!
               | But most of these contraptions specifically warn against
               | operating them while occupied. They aren't built for
               | accidents.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | They're basically cut-rate mobile homes on truck chassis.
               | 
               | This vid is a great illustration of both how easy it is
               | to get into an accident, and how much damage even a
               | glancing blow does:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuRtNajq-Yo
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | Community has an episode at the end where they trash a
               | camper. It seemed comedy driven at first but the longer I
               | looked at it and campers the more plausible that scene
               | seemed. It's foam and plywood.
               | 
               | Edit: I finally clicked through the autopian link from up
               | thread and it's reminding me there's a guy I watch
               | sometimes who does conversion vans. All of his stuff is
               | built around those extruded aluminum rails. He hasn't
               | figured out how to make use of those last few cubic feet
               | yet but he seems to do a good job and they're fairly
               | sturdy. Last I watched he was perfecting his showers.
               | 
               | I now wonder what it would look like if he converted
               | buses instead of shop vans. You have a superstructure
               | that might actually survive a hit, they're already set up
               | for AC units, you "just" need to build repeatable
               | interiors. But you need much more shop space, time, and
               | capital to do something of that sort.
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | Mercedes writes about all sorts of interesting
               | conversions, like these transit buses.
               | 
               | https://www.theautopian.com/this-1948-gm-old-look-
               | transit-bu...
               | 
               | https://www.theautopian.com/how-a-couple-turned-a-gillig-
               | tra...
        
             | gammajmp wrote:
             | [dead]
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | There was a guy on Reddit recently complaining about how
             | hard it was to keep up with orders for his teardrop
             | trailers. A bunch of people told him he wasn't charging
             | enough and should raise his prices and use the money to
             | hire someone and also to look for better deals from
             | suppliers (eg, larger orders less frequently).
        
               | carabiner wrote:
               | Link to this guy?
        
               | throitallaway wrote:
               | He's posted to r/DIY a few times I think.
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | He was unshockingly backlogged six ways to Sunday so if
               | you're looking for a deal that won't be it. I can look if
               | you still care.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _Most RVs are absolute trash for quality_
           | 
           | There, edited it for you for accuracy. :-) Seriously, our
           | Thor retailed for $100K in 2018, and I've been through that
           | entire vehicle while installing solar/inverter/battery. As
           | I've told my spouse, "there isn't a straight screw in that
           | whole interior". I've probably pulled a bathroom garbage
           | container worth of crap out of the walls (leftover trimmings
           | and the like). Yeah, didn't think anyone would look in there,
           | eh? :-)
        
         | mattmaroon wrote:
         | It really depends! I mean you can get by for not much money, or
         | you can live in a million dollar RV at a $200/night park in the
         | keys with a private dock and cabana.
         | 
         | You can get a pretty decent truck/camper combo for under $100k.
        
         | dmattia wrote:
         | I'm in a Leisure Travel Vans Wonder Rear Twin bed, which is a
         | 25 foot "Class B+" RV built on a Ford Transit Chassis.
         | 
         | For internet, we use a combo of Verizon (via a Wineguard
         | antennae on our roof) and Starlink (the not-mounted, mobile
         | version) and it's worked wonderfully. Verizon works great near
         | cities. Starlink works great in more remote settings as long as
         | there aren't trees, but the extra long starlink cable makes it
         | pretty easy to find spots where I can connect.
         | 
         | We largely moochdock (staying in family/friends driveways), but
         | when we travel we will alternate spending a week or two in
         | remote parks, then parks nearer a city, etc. so that we get a
         | good combo of civilization and nature. Parks near cities
         | normally run us around $40 per night, and more remote places
         | are largely either free or around $20 per night. There are a
         | surprising number of random costs that have popped up over
         | time, and our budget typically is cheaper than when we
         | owned/rented different houses, but not by that much.
         | 
         | My wife and I can comfortably make it about 7 days without any
         | hookups before we need to go to a park. We have solar + a gas
         | generator, so we never have issues with electricity. It's
         | usually either running out of fresh water or filling our black
         | tank that will limit our remote stays.
         | 
         | There are high highs and low lows with RVing. Highs include
         | being able to work comfortably from literal caves and beaches
         | with nobody in sight (Red Rock Park in CA is gorgeous and
         | nobody goes there, as an example). Lows include being stuck in
         | a place we didn't like for two months after we needed
         | unexpected window/body repairs and couldn't drive. Having your
         | house be your mode of transportation can be extremely limiting.
         | We don't tow a car or have the tow capacity to in our current
         | RV, but I wish we did.
         | 
         | My biggest piece of advice is to meet new people and to see old
         | friends/family as much as possible. Hot tubs and hiking are my
         | go tos for meeting new people, and I've made some incredible
         | friends doing each. But it's different than before I was
         | nomadic. I meet people, and two days later we're hiking
         | together, and three weeks later we're hiking in Hawaii together
         | staying in the same AirBnb, and then one of us goes to the
         | midwest and the other to California and we don't see each other
         | for months/years. It's fast paced and fun, but it can also do a
         | number on your mental health if you need consistency in your
         | life. A therapist helps me, as do frequent trips to see
         | family/friends, as does having friends at my place of work that
         | I chat with remotely, but coordinating in-person meeting can be
         | hard when many of my nomad friends could be in any of 48 states
         | most of the time.
         | 
         | I love my RV, and choose to live in it even when I have other
         | options available (like if we're at a cabin, hotel, etc.). If
         | you can make an RV your happy place, it can be a lot of fun
         | touring the world.
        
         | poorman wrote:
         | See my post here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36408382
        
         | neftaly wrote:
         | We've been in a 20-year old class-C for a year, it requires
         | regular handyman maintenance (we bounce down a lot of dirt
         | roads) but it has been very mechanically reliable. Upgrading to
         | 200ah of LiFePO4, adding a 140L water tank on the hitch, and
         | plumbing in an external hose for beach showers really improved
         | our quality-of-life. The only thing that will kill them is roof
         | leaks, make sure you replace the rubber roof every 5 years or
         | so.
         | 
         | Give it a few months before you start accessorising, we've kept
         | it to a couple of ebikes, camp chairs+table, and a paddleboard.
         | Don't bother with Starlink unless you need to be online 24/7,
         | and if you do get it, consider it only as a supplimentary to a
         | good rugged dual-sim 4G modem.
         | 
         | Back home (NZ) we were in a almost-new Sprinter, which was
         | great on fuel, but less fun once you wanted to go off-road or
         | abuse it in any way. Our 2WD Ford goes places people don't dare
         | bring their shiny new 4x4s.
         | 
         | I wouldn't go over 22' long, especially in Mexico and the fun
         | parts of Canada, otherwise you'll just be touring RV parks with
         | all the other people towing F150s and jetskis and bouncy
         | castles.
        
         | ke88y wrote:
         | _> nomad_
         | 
         | I travel for months at a time but have a "real" property to
         | land at, so not completely nomadic. YMMV especially if full-
         | time.
         | 
         |  _> share their general setup_
         | 
         | I own a mid-sized SUV that gets 25-30 MPH. Think
         | RAV4/CRV/Forester/Rogue/etc -- it's all the same just buy
         | whatever you can get a good deal on (definitely RAV4 hybrid if
         | you plan on lots of city driving; otherwise financially it's a
         | wash until you get to $5/gal or so).
         | 
         | - bed platform in the back.
         | 
         | - Passenger seat is converted into a desk.
         | 
         | - onboard storage under the bed, in the back foot wells, and a
         | battery in the spare tire well.
         | 
         | - outboard storage (including spare tire and water) on the roof
         | rack. Solar panels over that stuff. Ran a cable from the panels
         | to the battery.
         | 
         | - I have a little tent setup on the side which is nice when you
         | have a place to land and want to... stand up.
         | 
         |  _> monthly costs_
         | 
         | When on the road, I make due on about $500/mo and live quite
         | luxuriously. I eat out and drink, even. Not counting the cost
         | of the car or health insurance.
         | 
         | That number is going up over time due more to lifestyle creep
         | than inflation. I try to keep my monthly expenses below one
         | twelfth of 4% of 30% of my liquid post-tax assets.
         | 
         |  _> any tips /tricks/advice?_
         | 
         | People spend stupid amounts of money to avoid renting and
         | dependency on others.
         | 
         | Don't buy a bunch of shit. Instead, invest and rent!
         | 
         | Case-in-point: showers. You can blow $50K extra to have a setup
         | that gives you indoor showers. Or, you can buy notes and have
         | 50000*.05/12 = $200/mo = at least a few showers per week AND
         | you get to keep the principal!!! (and that's just the winter
         | months -- for the cost of one hour/month of cold water
         | showering for 9 months you get an extra $1800/yr to reinvest!)
         | 
         | If you are young and single, anything bigger than Transit
         | Connect is unnecessary. Honestly, I've seen people live in
         | priuses for years at time quite comfortably. As that number as
         | gone up, so too have the number of
         | lobsters/cocktails/burgers/dates.
         | 
         | Try not to work from the car. A transit connect or RV beats an
         | SUV you want to work from the car, but I promise you would
         | prefer to work from a coffee shop or by following the weather
         | and working outside as much as possible. You'll end up avoiding
         | work days in the rig even if you have the space, so why blow
         | stupid amounts of money? You live out of a car; I promise you
         | won't want to also work out of a car.
        
           | virtualwhys wrote:
           | > Passenger seat is converted into a desk.
           | 
           | Got any pics of your rig?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | timmaah wrote:
         | My wife documented all our adventures for the last decade.
         | Sadly we sold the Airstream last week.
         | 
         | https://www.watsonswander.com/
        
       | chayesfss wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | nickls wrote:
       | What are some good options for a standing desk while traveling in
       | an RV, travel trailer or van?
        
       | brightball wrote:
       | We did the RV thing for about 4 years and it was fun. Then covid
       | hit and it got so popular that everything was crowded and it
       | wasn't fun anymore.
       | 
       | Mostly agree with this list though:
       | 
       | 1. Size: 35ft should be your absolute limit. There are a lot of
       | reasons for this that you'll discover as you get into it.
       | 
       | 2. Hard mounted satellite: This was my favorite feature, but we
       | got a dish that would keep the signal when you were driving. I
       | took a trip from Florida to South Carolina on a Saturday in the
       | fall. We had College Gameday on when we left and didn't miss a
       | beat for most of the day. For me, this makes the drive a lot more
       | enjoyable. Nothing better than getting up to make a sandwich
       | while the game is on while stuck in a traffic jam.
       | 
       | 3. Never tried the camping clubs, but they didn't seem worth it.
       | 
       | 4. This makes sense, but wasn't anything we ever had an issue
       | with.
       | 
       | 5. Completely agree.
       | 
       | 6. Also true. We used Dish Network on a month-to-month
       | 
       | 7. Taking your time is pretty much the point. Enjoy the drive.
       | Stop and see interesting things. We started actively looking for
       | random billboard activities to chase down. Visited the Luray
       | Caverns, Hershey Park and almost chased down the bigfoot museum
       | but it was a little too far off the route.
       | 
       | 8. Totally correct. You don't need a lot, but it will still feel
       | good to be prepared. Like anything, it's a learning experience.
       | 
       | 9. I can see this, but YMMV.
       | 
       | 10. Costs are certainly interesting. We had 2 different RVs over
       | 4 years. We started out with a 20 year old rig that we got
       | cheaper than a used car and fixed it up. It wasn't perfect but we
       | loved it. Didn't have much fancy stuff on it.
       | 
       | Then we upgraded to something that was about 7 years old with a
       | lot more bells, whistles and computers. It was much nicer but was
       | in the shop constantly because something was always broken. In
       | retrospect, you don't need half the fancy systems on these
       | things. Push button shades, automatic leveling systems (it's not
       | that hard to level).
       | 
       | Demand went up so much that we sold both for more than we paid
       | for them initially, except for our maintenance costs. The biggest
       | thing is winterizing. If a sudden cold snap happens before you've
       | winterized, you're going to be in for some bills.
       | 
       | We still miss the RV life, but half the fun for us we just
       | deciding at the last minute that we'd go somewhere that weekend.
       | As it got more popular, all of the places we'd try to go were
       | booked up 6 months in advance. We had some great family vacations
       | and it was a lot of fun for sporting events. Clemson never lost a
       | game that we came to in the RV (including the 2016 championship),
       | so I like to think we were good luck. Disney's Fort Wilderness is
       | by far the best RV stop that we found on the east coast.
        
       | theandrewbailey wrote:
       | (2011)
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | > Pre-Post Note/ Nov 2017. Although this post was written in
         | 2011       > it's still my most popular post ever (!!), so I'm
         | refreshing it       > as part of our 8th year on the road. See
         | my updates in italics       > below the original text on each
         | topic.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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