[HN Gopher] Benzene Exposure Alters Endocrine Activity
___________________________________________________________________
Benzene Exposure Alters Endocrine Activity
Author : Beefin
Score : 156 points
Date : 2023-06-20 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| nvartolomei wrote:
| This topic was recently brought to attention by David Friedberg
| in the latest episode of the All-In podcast.
| https://youtu.be/5cQXjboJwg0?t=6645 (1:50:45)
| pengaru wrote:
| Back in the late 80s/early 90s my elderly Italian-speaking
| grandfather lived with us in the states.
|
| Whenever he'd watch driving my gas RC car, if the thing would die
| he'd motion with his thumb down (like a pouring spout) while
| saying "benzene?".
|
| I don't know if it's an Italian language thing, his dialect, or
| just his knowledge of engines, but RC car fuel was "benzene".
| Makes me wonder what kind of benzene exposure _he_ had in his
| younger days...
| MatmaRex wrote:
| That's the word for "gasoline" in Italian and a number of other
| languages. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#/languages
| pengaru wrote:
| I believe you, (and google translate agrees). But I just
| never heard it spoken outside those specific circumstances
| from him. Despite having Italian immigrant parents who spoke
| a lot of Italian around me. I can't remember but suspect they
| said gasolina, not benzina.
| angst_ridden wrote:
| Back in the day, I worked at a print shop as a press operator for
| AB-Dick 360CD printing presses.
|
| We'd clean the ink off the rollers between separations with
| benzene. We didn't have any special ventilation (or even use
| gloves, for that matter). The first few times you did it, you'd
| get quite a headrush.
|
| It's 40 years on, now, and I haven't yet experienced any health
| effects that I can directly link to that exposure. I'm sure I'm
| dumber than I would have been had I avoided the exposure,
| although I also grew up in the era of leaded gasoline. Based on
| what I've read, I'm more likely to experience Parkinson's,
| anemia, and various cancers in the future.
| caycep wrote:
| how bad are gas stoves if I have a giant range above, I wonder?
| Robotbeat wrote:
| Crazy how people just drive around in cars and fuel up with
| gasoline that contains like 2% benzene. And we let teenagers do
| this, with no personal protective equipment and no basic
| supervision.
| nomel wrote:
| Reference, for skin absorption of gasoline:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4067326/
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > And we let teenagers do this, with no personal protective
| equipment and no basic supervision.
|
| Gas pumps have mandatory vapor recovery systems for decades
| now. That problem is long solved.
| s1mon wrote:
| At least in the US, vapor recovery seems to be implemented
| differently by state. In California I notice fumes when
| pumping gas far less than in New York. There seems to be
| various types of nozzles and legislation (some with rubber
| boots and some without). Since 2006 cars were apparently
| required to have vapor recovery systems built in, so the EPA
| has dropped requirements for systems at the pump. California
| (not surprisingly) still seems to lead the way in improving
| the effectiveness of the systems despite the EPA backing off.
|
| https://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/12/epa-says-outdated-gas-
| va...
|
| https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/workshop-vapor-
| re...
|
| https://www.petrolplaza.com/knowledge/2057
| specialist wrote:
| Is that only for urban areas? I dimly recall old style
| nozzles still in use while driving cross country.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Good god, it seems like y'all dropped the requirement for
| Stage 2 vapor recovery systems in 2011 [1] based on the
| pretense of onboard filters in vehicles being enough...
| meanwhile here in the EU, where many member countries
| already had national requirements for years prior to that,
| we passed that requirement in 2009 [2].
|
| The US attitude, particular to expensive systems, on
| anything emissions related continues to negatively amaze
| me.
|
| [1] https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/mobilesource/vapo
| r_rec...
|
| [2] https://eur-
| lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:...
| brewdad wrote:
| I'm sure it was a combination of not wanting to spend
| money and customers feeling the new pumps with vapor
| recovery systems were too difficult to operate and so
| sought out stations that hadn't yet upgraded.
| nomel wrote:
| That doesn't solve the problem of people splashing it on
| themselves, from faulty handles, which I've experienced and
| seen within the last decade.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| I don't doubt your experience, but I'd rather put that one
| on abysmal lax standards in the US... here in Germany,
| myself and a couple of friends I just asked never have
| witnessed such a thing outside of freak accidents where
| someone knocked over a jerry can.
| nomel wrote:
| I believe the standard here is to change the handle once
| enough people complain about it splashing them. That was
| the case for the faulty handle that splashed me.
| specialist wrote:
| My father (and me) washed engine parts with gasoline. And
| occasionally degreased our hands (followed by dish soap and
| sugar). We practically bathed in the stuff.
|
| Then my father discovered Goop.
|
| My father also dumped engine oil into storm drains. Then
| into the ground when that was banned. Yes, he was an idiot.
| (Becoming a treehugger was probably an act of rebellion.)
| brewdad wrote:
| My father used to change the car oil on the lawn rather
| than the driveway. He would do this less than 100 ft from
| the well that supplied our drinking water. At some point
| he stopped but it certainly lasted through multiple
| vehicles.
| toss1 wrote:
| That well is probably contaminated still.
|
| Bought a new house in a semi-rural area, had only ever
| been farms, zero petrol stations ever existed within at
| least a 4-mile radius, and mostly downhill.
|
| Yet the water test found MTBE [0], Methyl tert-butyl
| ether, a gasoline additive.
|
| Had to maintain and replace an activated carbon filter in
| the water system ever since.
|
| The only possibility is some farmer decades ago dumping
| oil (IDK if it is in there, or gets in there from piston-
| ring blow-by) or leaking gasoline somewhere in the
| watershed.
|
| Awful.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether
| jabl wrote:
| Not only does gasoline contain toxic components, it's
| also incredibly flammable. While using gasoline as a
| degreaser was a common practice, it's a pretty dangerous
| habit. Not to mention back when leaded gasoline was a
| thing, it left a shimmering effect on your hands after
| the gasoline evaporated. Fun times. Diesel is a lot
| safer.
|
| For cleaning bike gears etc. I've used a DIY degreaser
| with water, fuel alcohol, baking soda, and dishwashing
| liquid. Works ok, and is cheap.
| eep_social wrote:
| I guess you are referring to stage 2 recovery systems on pump
| handles which are not uniformly required. As per usual, the
| US is large and regulations are often bare minimums with
| different states implementing different interpretations or
| additional requirements.
|
| Here's the 2012 EPA ruling which loosened the requirement for
| stage 2 recovery systems:
| https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/FR-2012-05-16/2012-11846
| which led directly to this move in Arizona:
| https://agriculture.az.gov/weights-
| measures/fueling/gasoline...
| rootsudo wrote:
| Can also say the same thing how teens can drive moving things
| that can blow up, crash, cause loss of limb and life... and
| untold amounts in property damage.
| jabl wrote:
| To nitpick, at least in the EU regulations limit the benzene
| content in gasoline to a maximum of 1%. I had a vague
| recollection the limit was actually slightly stricter in the
| USA at 0.6%, but maybe my memory fails me.
| wil421 wrote:
| It's 0.62% or less for gas.[1]
|
| [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7918986/#:~:t
| ex....
| Robotbeat wrote:
| No, 0.62% is the _average_ : Benzene content in gasoline is
| federally regulated, with any refineries or importers
| required to average less than or equal to 0.62% benzene by
| volume."
|
| The very next sentence in your link mentions it can have up
| to 2%, as I mentioned: "Generally, gasoline in the United
| States is likely to contain 0.5%-2.0% benzene by volume
| [14,15]."
|
| 18% of gasoline's weight is the BTEX aromatics, benzene,
| toluene, ethylene-benzene, and xylene.
| https://www.fuelfreedom.org/is-there-a-better-gasoline-
| addit....
|
| This may be done depending on the season to increase the
| octane of gasoline.
|
| An average of 18% of these aromatics is not what I'd call
| just trace amounts...
| karmakaze wrote:
| All I recall besides being one of many carcinogens is that it's
| in cigarette smoke. From a Dutch health page.
| [https://www.rivm.nl/en/tobacco/harmful-substances-in-tobacco...]
|
| > For smokers, tobacco smoke is the most important source of
| exposure to benzene. It is released in the smoke when tobacco is
| burned. Non-smokers are also exposed through tobacco smoke when
| they inhale smoke passively. A typical smoker inhales an average
| of ten times more benzene per day than a non-smoker.
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| Canada also has a page on Benzene if you want to compare notes:
| https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/environmenta...
| idlewords wrote:
| "In mice"
| zinclozenge wrote:
| When I was taking organic chemistry my (mid-to-late 60s at the
| time in ~20010) teacher told us an anecdote about benzene when we
| started learning about aromatic molecules. She told us that they
| used to clean their lab bench with benzene solvent to make it
| sparkling clean. Of course, she also told us it was carcinogenic
| and then finished by saying a lot of her contemporary colleagues
| that went into organic chemistry research were now dead. Really
| drives home that a lot of safety precautions and practices are
| "written in blood", so to speak.
| vondur wrote:
| Chemists used to basically bathe in Benzene back in the day.
| I've heard that they as a group tended to die in their 60's.
| Most teaching Chem labs tend to work with small amounts of
| chemicals today and try to avoid the nasty stuff if possible.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2031509/
| which seems to indicate administration is hazardous to your
| health
| asdff wrote:
| Old books with chemical information would often have things
| like odor or taste written down for a lot of surprising things.
| tormeh wrote:
| Chemistry used to be a scientific spin on the Jackass
| franchise. Although to be fair often it was the assistants
| doing the taste tests - not the chief chemist at the lab.
| bilekas wrote:
| These types of studies are so intensive you really need to know
| about the subject matter to follow completely.
|
| I hate to ask this but is there anyone who can explain even the
| bulk of it for a layman?
| hammock wrote:
| Benzene is everywhere, particularly in trace amounts in otherwise
| harmless products.
|
| Benzene is a building block for the production of many chemicals,
| including plastics, synthetic fibers, rubber, resins, dyes and
| pharmaceuticals, and residual amounts may remain in the final
| products.
|
| Benzene is used as a solvent and cleaning agent in printing,
| paint manufacturing, electronics, etc. Benzene contributes to the
| overall VOC load of paint for example.
|
| And benzene is in the formulation of adhesives and sealants.
| Regulations often restrict the amount of benzene to a certain
| amount
| FrustratedMonky wrote:
| >"Benzene is everywhere, particularly in trace amounts in
| otherwise harmless products."
|
| Note ->
|
| Everywhere 'Today' because of your listed modern products.
|
| Not, Everywhere because it is some natural thing.
|
| Saying it is "Everywhere" seems to imply it is ok. The point
| is, we are all exposed now.
| elevaet wrote:
| I didn't pick up on it being ok as the implication, rather
| that it's not ok because it's everywhere in _otherwise_
| harmless products.
| FrustratedMonky wrote:
| Sorry. Think you are correct. I read word 'harmless' and
| associated it with entire comment indicating 'harmless'.
| But on closer reading, it could be as you say, and it is
| not trying to excuse it.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| the same thing is true of brominated fire retardants.
| Somewhere along the way it was decided flameproofing was
| necessary for consumer products. As a result, we all get a
| free does of bromine in our homes!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brominated_flame_retardant
| mrguyorama wrote:
| That article says that BFRs only account for 20% of the
| flame retardant market, and the vast majority of that goes
| into printed circuit boards and electrical components.
|
| There's no reference for that section, and I wonder if that
| calculation is by value, rather than by volume or weight,
| which would rather massively skew the calculation. Poisons
| don't usually care how much you paid for them.
| refurb wrote:
| The dose makes the poison.
|
| Currently chemical analysis techniques can detect compounds
| down to picograms/L. That's billionth's of grams per liter. So
| saying "this material has benzene in it", doesn't really tell
| you anything about the level of exposure or risk.
|
| Very few compounds are toxic at that kind of exposure.
| nimos wrote:
| A lot of chemicals seem to have effects on the endocrine
| system. I wonder if there is potentially an issue with them
| in aggregate. Such that the dose of any single chemical isn't
| problematic but all of them together with similar effects
| causes a problem.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| you are right -- keyword search "body burden" or "forever
| chemicals"
| milsorgen wrote:
| >I wonder if there is potentially an issue with them in
| aggregate. Such that the dose of any single chemical isn't
| problematic but all of them together with similar effects
| causes a problem.
|
| I've been wondering about this a lot in recent years.
| Particularly in regards to medications/pharmaceuticals but
| also environmental containments/traces (which can include
| pharmaceuticals of course), pair with this what we are just
| starting to understand about plastics exposure and
| pervasiveness and I really wonder why more health research
| and workplace safety resources aren't being directed to
| look at compound and long term exposures.
| brewdad wrote:
| > I really wonder why more health research and workplace
| safety resources aren't being directed to look at
| compound and long term exposures.
|
| Probably because no one wants to find the various smoking
| guns alongside the fears of what each of the ensuing
| lawsuits would cost. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| What would even happen if we found out plastics are
| unsafe in small amounts? You'd about have to remake half
| the world at this point.
| refurb wrote:
| That would require some interaction between the chemicals,
| that potentiates their effect. Or they act through common
| pathways.
|
| But if the threshold effect is 1 microgram, and you're
| exposed to 1 picogram of 10 different chemicals all working
| through the same pathway, you're still below the threshold
| effect.
| nwienert wrote:
| I think the idea was more if the threshold effect is 1
| microgram and you're exposed to 100 picograms of 10
| different chemicals.
| hammock wrote:
| The study in question literally says a small dose is about as
| effective as a massive dose.
| refurb wrote:
| That's because it's a terribly designed study. Their lowest
| dose shows maximum effect, they should have also tested 0.1
| mg/kg.
|
| And 1mg/kg of body weight is way more than any person would
| be exposed to unless you like drinking gasoline.
| InSteady wrote:
| If you read carefully through the study, the lowest dose
| does not show anything close to maximum effect in several
| of the most interesting metrics they were testing
| (shrinking of white adipose tissue cells, serum levels of
| leptin indicating endocrine dysfunction). Basically they
| tested a ton of stuff, and actually selected a pretty
| good range to get a decent picture. If they wanted to
| zoom on on one of these, then maybe you are right they
| should have started at 0.1mg/kg... unless they were
| zooming on on say decrease in serum levels of leptins in
| response to benzene exposure, because no significant
| decrease would be found.
|
| Also, they are obviously interested in lifetime exposure,
| but the expense of exposing rats to tiny amounts over the
| course of years is not financially/logistically feasible,
| unless someone is dumping obscene amounts of money into
| this specific avenue of research. Instead, they go with
| much higher doses in 24 exposures over a 4 week period.
| jacobwilliamroy wrote:
| Just for clarification (because I had to look it up) a
| picogram is 10^-12 grams.
| permo-w wrote:
| perhaps as a society we need to stop dismissing things
| containing plastics, synthetic fibres, rubber, resins, dyes and
| pharmaceuticals as otherwise harmless. I personally strongly
| avoid sleeping on or wearing anything containing synthetic
| fibres unless absolutely necessary. dyes I'm less cautious
| about, as short of dressing like a hippy they're almost
| impossible to avoid.
|
| it would be worse if I was a woman I'm sure, god knows what
| nonsense cosmetics contain
| xxpor wrote:
| Why are you confident cotton isn't carcinogenic?
| MisterTea wrote:
| > it would be worse if I was a woman I'm sure, god knows what
| nonsense cosmetics contain
|
| They can always not apply them.
| ilikecakeandpie wrote:
| Societal pressure and beauty standards for women are far
| different than for men. I agree that they could always just
| "not apply them", but look at tabloids showing things like
| "star unrecognizable without makeup" and memes where men
| are encouraged to take women swimming on a date so they can
| see what they look like without makeup. It's just not that
| easy
| MrVandemar wrote:
| That's startlingly naive. There are breathtaking double
| standards as applies to women.
|
| One of my friends is a graphic designer / coder working at
| a web-dev shop. Guys could come in wearing ripped jeans,
| hoodies, whatever. If she came in with low makeup and
| casual clothes she was upbraided for not "looking good" in
| case a client came in.
|
| It's by no means an uncommon incident. It's 2023, there's
| still a lot of discrimination and inequality. Women
| choosing to not wear makeup probably don't get jobs and
| contracts.
| acumenical wrote:
| Yes, if they want to opt out of society. In most places
| outside the farm, for a woman not to apply makeup is career
| and social suicide.
| mint2 wrote:
| Toluene is often used in place of benzene these days.
|
| That one methyl group makes a significant difference, but I
| still would avoid unnecessary exposure.
| ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
| Things i wish i knew before buying a fixer upper car is all the
| chemicals involved. Just one sniff of the brake cleaner and the
| rest of the day is gone. Probably some IQ ponis down the drain
| too. Should've just bought a tesla and be done with it...
| rootsudo wrote:
| Brake cleaner is the worst, the others are pretty much okay
| as long as you avoid exposure. ATF, Oil, etc - just wear
| proper PPE :)
| wil421 wrote:
| A few guys I watch on YouTube repair cars with a mask on when
| they spray brake cleaner.
| mint2 wrote:
| Note, the type of mask is pretty important. An n95 for
| particulates isn't going to stop vapors nearly as well.
| scheme271 wrote:
| You'll need brake cleaners for Tesla brakes too. Less of it
| since you change the brake pads and rotors less often but
| it'll still be used.
| christophilus wrote:
| > IQ ponis
|
| This made me laugh. Well played, sir.
| samstave wrote:
| https://youtu.be/iyC2ccF_-Pc
| tines wrote:
| ChatGPT?
| TSiege wrote:
| I thought benzene as a solvent was replaced by toluene, which
| is not good for you either but is less bad.
| ben7799 wrote:
| Benzene is in sunscreen... at least some of the spray stuff.
| Apparently it doesn't get on your skin but it's important to
| apply it in a well ventilated area to make sure you don't
| breathe any of it.
| mint2 wrote:
| > Apparently it doesn't get on your skin
|
| That's wishful thinking.
|
| Also, benzene is a common contaminant and breakdown product
| of chemical sunscreen (as opposed to mineral sunblock)
| ingredients. I.e. the older the tube of sunscreen is, the
| more benzene and other undesirable by products it's likely to
| have.
| hammock wrote:
| Benzene is in most personal care products in at least trace
| amounts
|
| https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/CENODS/10001-feature2-benze.
| ..
| InSteady wrote:
| According to the National Institute for Occupational Safety
| and Health, it is a big enough concern to recommend safety
| equipment in exposure at or above 0.1 ppm. So most of the
| activities / sources on that diagram don't warrant too much
| concern, other than cigarette smoking and fresh pain fumes.
|
| Although benzene exposure from cosmetics probably depends
| highly on what you are using. As per another reply here,
| those spray on sunscreens are are pretty terrible (likely
| due to using butane, propane, etc as propellants). Exposure
| can get as high as 6 ppm in some cases.
| bob_theslob646 wrote:
| May please provide another source rather than an image with
| the cutout of a house and showing the parts per million of
| benzene versus the actual personal care products you were
| talking about that contain benzene?
| koboll wrote:
| Not just the spray stuff https://www.valisure.com/valisure-
| newsroom/valisure-detects-...
| toss1 wrote:
| Another in a long line of Benzine-related disorders.
|
| And gas stoves pollute indoor air with Benzene [1].
|
| Draw your own conclusions about efforts to regulate supplying new
| buildings with natgas. On one side is "lets improve health for
| everyone and do something about anthropogenic climate change" and
| on the other side is "muh fredumbs to poison myself and everyone
| around me while enriching fossil fuel companies".
|
| Let the downvotefest begin.
|
| [1] https://health.wusf.usf.edu/npr-health/npr-
| health/2023-06-16...
| com2kid wrote:
| Induction stoves are better in every possible regard, except
| price.
|
| Well that and they can get too hot, I warped the bottom of my
| carbon steel wok because my induction stove heated it up too
| fast! Not a problem I had with any previous gas stoves!
| nomel wrote:
| All of these studies come to the very obvious conclusion that a
| good hood fan, that vents outdoors, isn't optional. The scary
| numbers, as in this study, come from not using a hood fan, with
| "good hood fan" numbers being somewhat negligible.
|
| I think a good middle ground (since you can't ask everyone to
| rewire their homes for electric) would be some sponsored
| program to install heat detecting hood fan switch, so they
| can't be left off by mistake.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Imagine making being able to willfully poison your kids with
| Benzine a cultural issue. There wasn't even a threat to fossil
| fuel industry or gas stoves, because the discussion was just
| that, an internal discussion, with no resolution. Even before
| the insane screaming about "they terk ur gas stove!" I'm pretty
| sure the outcome was "maybe we should think about banning gas
| stoves in new builds sometime in the next ten years". Nobody
| will ever come take an appliance out of your home, that's just
| not how the US regulates thing. If you want, you can still go
| buy a used 60 year old refrigerator with a stupidly old
| refrigerant that will try it's best to destroy the ozone layer
| that we put so much effort into fixing.
|
| It's infuriating to me that the people claiming they are so
| oppressed are able to wipe out 10% of a giant company's value
| because they DARED to give a trans person $50k after supporting
| pride parades for decades and nobody cared. It's only now that
| 30% of the country is screaming about """stop making me punch
| you, you weirdos""" that these stupid, pointless things matter.
| Apparently rainbows are verbotin now, because only "the gays"
| use colors.
|
| Meanwhile the generations after boomers are so feckless and
| stupid as to be unable to even TOUCH companies that involve
| themselves in actual child murder and slavery. Nestle is doing
| fine.
|
| Puts me out of my goddamned mind. At least it shows us boycotts
| absolutely can work, even against some of the largest
| multinational companies, if only the generations that spend 90%
| of their free time liking socialist content on tiktok could
| spend even a second thinking about what they are doing before
| hitting the one click buy button on everything. But no, they
| are unwilling to take even the most minor reduction in life
| quality to make the world better.
| takeyourmeds666 wrote:
| [flagged]
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Nobody was taking your rights. Read.
| jeffbee wrote:
| They must have perceived some threats because they created
| this entire astroturf campaign for the pro-gas side.
| https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54?t=708
| mrguyorama wrote:
| No, they didn't perceive threats, they perceived
| _opportunity_ to push harder on the culture war, since it
| 's basically their leading platform and leading means of
| generating the outrage that keeps their people voting. The
| "threat" was entirely manufactured. The group discussing it
| were not even TALKING about banning or confiscating stoves.
| mchannon wrote:
| Looks like a small dose is about as effective as a massive dose.
|
| What's the downside of a quack doctor selling benzene-
| contaminated supplements for fat loss?
|
| I'm sure there's a huge increase in cancer risk, but wouldn't
| this cause a lot of fat loss in a human?
| EatingWithForks wrote:
| There's something super dystopian that we look at a cancer-
| causing, bone-marrow-killing chemical and go "look, we can use
| this for weight loss!". I get fatness is a plague or whatever
| but thin == healthy is totally broken if you're using poison to
| get thin.
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| If you're into super ~metal~ dystopian weight loss aids that
| are available today, check out
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol
| zinclozenge wrote:
| "Available" is a generous word. It's actually pretty hard
| to find even from underground anabolic steroid sellers. The
| only reason I was able to get my hands on it was because a
| seller was getting rid of his stock. The main reason is
| that it's actually pretty crummy for fat loss. If you
| actually want to lose weight you'd probably be pointed to a
| low dose of hgh, which has a ton of other benefits to help
| you lose fat.
| rybosworld wrote:
| I remember reading that body builders and models will take
| this. It basically causes your mitochondria to work less
| efficiently, and thus burn more calories. Take too much and
| you will die because your body can't regulate it's
| temperature. Scary stuff.
| EatingWithForks wrote:
| Yeah frankly I'd rather fat people stay fat and focus on
| lifestyle changes to health, fat or not, than eating life
| threatening explosives to get thin.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| I agree with your opinion, but the other way to look at
| it is that most fat people know they are fat, "want" to
| do something about it, but just don't because losing
| weight is really hard, from a human level. Millions of
| years of evolution are working against you to lose fat
| stores, because 99.99% of people who have ever done that
| starved to death.
|
| If sketchy drugs are the only ACTUAL way to get the
| 3/4ths of the country to lose weight and be healthier,
| shouldn't we try it?
|
| Though, the end result of that is probably finding out
| that if you are a "healthy" weight from drugs, but your
| diet is still mainly mcdonalds and steaks and food made
| mostly of butter, you probably will have just as many
| health problems. And there's no exercise drug.
| EatingWithForks wrote:
| > If sketchy drugs are the only ACTUAL way to get the
| 3/4ths of the country to lose weight and be healthier,
| shouldn't we try it?
|
| Well the thing is, I actually am super skeptical that
| _eating explosive poison is healthier than being a
| fatty_. I am way more optimistic for wegovy and other
| hunger-regulating hormone treatments that don 't seem to
| cause you to die from overheating, and I'm all for fat
| people taking them if it helps them be healthier. But
| like, I'd rather a fat person stay fat and work on doing
| runs (even though exercise doesn't help much in losing
| weight, exercise is still good for fat people) than
| change nothing about their lifestyle besides eating
| poison. Skinny isn't always == healthy and shouldn't be
| treated like an "at any costs" measure. A great way to
| lose 25% of your body weight is to chop off a leg, but
| chopping off legs is obviously a stupid way to get
| healthy.
| Firmwarrior wrote:
| It sounds like something out of a cartoon
|
| It's an explosive compound that causes you to overheat and
| die if ingested in too large a dose
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| All I can says is: I learned something new today.
| [deleted]
| davikr wrote:
| Benzene also causes aplastic anemia when exposed to chronically,
| like in the case of some gas station workers. This is a pretty
| well known phenomenon.
| specialist wrote:
| Yup.
|
| I had aplastic anemia as a kid. (Fixed with a bone marrow
| transplant.) I previously had a summer job cleaning a small PCB
| mfg (1983). It was fucking awful. I read that company was later
| fined for improper use, storage, and disposal.
|
| Can't prove cause & effect, of course. But childhood aplastic
| anemia is pretty rare in my area (vs agricultural areas). So
| it's plausible.
| Octokiddie wrote:
| Benzene's wide-ranging negative health effects have been known
| for a long time. It's far from clear why this article reporting
| the results of a mouse study with rather unremarkable findings is
| on the front page.
| kens wrote:
| HN makes much more sense if you think of it as a collection of
| chat rooms with titles. People are upvoting the topic and
| discussing benzene, mostly unconnected to the actual article.
| (Serious question: did anyone who upvoted the post read the
| article first?)
| ramraj07 wrote:
| Because someone posted it at the right time and not everyone
| knows benzene toxicity has an endocrine component.
| thinkcontext wrote:
| My guess is because there was a study reported on last week
| that talked about benzene emissions from gas stoves.
| reddisbad wrote:
| I thought it was related to a discussion on HN last week
| about an article that discussed the unreported and untracked
| levels of benzene in hand sanitiser, after regulations were
| eased during Covid.
| jokoon wrote:
| I have this large plastic box that has quite a strong smell when
| I open it.
|
| I guess the plastic is decaying or reacting with something that's
| in it.
| pfdietz wrote:
| Benzene kills fat tissue?
|
| BRB, going to write the "Benzene Diet" book.
| hammock wrote:
| The human brain is 60 percent fat
| CommitSyn wrote:
| Woah, did not know that. So can true 'fat burners' like DNP
| give you brain damage, or is that something the blood brain
| barrier protects against?
| com2kid wrote:
| Another fun fact: the brain being majority made of fat is
| why ultra low fat diets can cause depression!
|
| It is also why it is recommended babies consume dietary
| fats, low fat diets are terrible for brain development.
|
| Want a healthy baby? Add some organ meat (check levels so
| as to not OD on certain vitamins) and (low/no mercury) fish
| skins to their diet!
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| DNP doesn't actually target fat that I am aware of. It
| messes with ATP and makes it incredibly inefficient, so
| your cells burn basically everything including fat to try
| and keep up with energy demands. This also can kill you due
| to the heat produced.
|
| It's also an explosive.
| piuantiderp wrote:
| Ooof, messing with ATP to "burn basically everything"
| sounds like a ticket to cancer or accelerated aging.
| zinclozenge wrote:
| I took a standard DNP fat loss dose, the effects (weight
| loss and others) are vastly overstated. You'd have to
| take well in excess of any recommended dose to get to the
| point where the waste heat production would become
| dangerous. You're more likely to develop a cataract as a
| deleterious effect.
|
| I'd wager most of my weight loss came from the fact that
| I just wasn't eating because I felt awful.
| mikeodds wrote:
| were you training at the same time? any noticeable
| effects if so?
| zinclozenge wrote:
| I tried, but DNP basically gave me a perpetual fever (aka
| pyrexia) so I didn't train. I assume it would have had a
| pretty noticeable effect though.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| what else did you expect to happen? The only place I can
| see it wouldn't be a problem would be in the arctic or
| antarctic. Air temperature is so low you might not have
| any issues.
| EatingWithForks wrote:
| According to wikipedia, the actual tolerance of the dose
| varies widely. Because of this I would strongly discount
| individual accounts of safe experiences.
| zinclozenge wrote:
| Sure, although I guess to be clear I wouldn't recommend
| DNP to anyone because it's absolutely not the miracle
| weight loss drug it seems to be when you read about it on
| the internet.
| pfdietz wrote:
| It's not fat _tissue_ (that is, fat cells.)
| LegitShady wrote:
| Also causes Leukaemia. You get thin but not for good reasons.
| treeman79 wrote:
| I and family was expose to very large amounts of benzene from a
| gas leak over the course of three months. It was a rental house
| came with that smell, and they kept making excuses as to why it
| had a weird smell.
|
| It's taken about five years to get something resembling normal
| health.
|
| Intelligence of all family members dropped like crazy. Blood
| started clotting a lot. Nerve pain and inflammation were the
| norm.
|
| Doctors didn't know what effect those chemicals would have so
| refused to sign any paperwork saying it was cause of all health
| problems. So lawyers wouldn't take the case.
|
| Only in the past year can me and my oldest daughter start having
| normal conversations like we used to.
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