[HN Gopher] Benzene Exposure Alters Endocrine Activity
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Benzene Exposure Alters Endocrine Activity
        
       Author : Beefin
       Score  : 156 points
       Date   : 2023-06-20 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
        
       | nvartolomei wrote:
       | This topic was recently brought to attention by David Friedberg
       | in the latest episode of the All-In podcast.
       | https://youtu.be/5cQXjboJwg0?t=6645 (1:50:45)
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | Back in the late 80s/early 90s my elderly Italian-speaking
       | grandfather lived with us in the states.
       | 
       | Whenever he'd watch driving my gas RC car, if the thing would die
       | he'd motion with his thumb down (like a pouring spout) while
       | saying "benzene?".
       | 
       | I don't know if it's an Italian language thing, his dialect, or
       | just his knowledge of engines, but RC car fuel was "benzene".
       | Makes me wonder what kind of benzene exposure _he_ had in his
       | younger days...
        
         | MatmaRex wrote:
         | That's the word for "gasoline" in Italian and a number of other
         | languages. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#/languages
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | I believe you, (and google translate agrees). But I just
           | never heard it spoken outside those specific circumstances
           | from him. Despite having Italian immigrant parents who spoke
           | a lot of Italian around me. I can't remember but suspect they
           | said gasolina, not benzina.
        
       | angst_ridden wrote:
       | Back in the day, I worked at a print shop as a press operator for
       | AB-Dick 360CD printing presses.
       | 
       | We'd clean the ink off the rollers between separations with
       | benzene. We didn't have any special ventilation (or even use
       | gloves, for that matter). The first few times you did it, you'd
       | get quite a headrush.
       | 
       | It's 40 years on, now, and I haven't yet experienced any health
       | effects that I can directly link to that exposure. I'm sure I'm
       | dumber than I would have been had I avoided the exposure,
       | although I also grew up in the era of leaded gasoline. Based on
       | what I've read, I'm more likely to experience Parkinson's,
       | anemia, and various cancers in the future.
        
       | caycep wrote:
       | how bad are gas stoves if I have a giant range above, I wonder?
        
       | Robotbeat wrote:
       | Crazy how people just drive around in cars and fuel up with
       | gasoline that contains like 2% benzene. And we let teenagers do
       | this, with no personal protective equipment and no basic
       | supervision.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | Reference, for skin absorption of gasoline:
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4067326/
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > And we let teenagers do this, with no personal protective
         | equipment and no basic supervision.
         | 
         | Gas pumps have mandatory vapor recovery systems for decades
         | now. That problem is long solved.
        
           | s1mon wrote:
           | At least in the US, vapor recovery seems to be implemented
           | differently by state. In California I notice fumes when
           | pumping gas far less than in New York. There seems to be
           | various types of nozzles and legislation (some with rubber
           | boots and some without). Since 2006 cars were apparently
           | required to have vapor recovery systems built in, so the EPA
           | has dropped requirements for systems at the pump. California
           | (not surprisingly) still seems to lead the way in improving
           | the effectiveness of the systems despite the EPA backing off.
           | 
           | https://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/12/epa-says-outdated-gas-
           | va...
           | 
           | https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/workshop-vapor-
           | re...
           | 
           | https://www.petrolplaza.com/knowledge/2057
        
           | specialist wrote:
           | Is that only for urban areas? I dimly recall old style
           | nozzles still in use while driving cross country.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | Good god, it seems like y'all dropped the requirement for
             | Stage 2 vapor recovery systems in 2011 [1] based on the
             | pretense of onboard filters in vehicles being enough...
             | meanwhile here in the EU, where many member countries
             | already had national requirements for years prior to that,
             | we passed that requirement in 2009 [2].
             | 
             | The US attitude, particular to expensive systems, on
             | anything emissions related continues to negatively amaze
             | me.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/mobilesource/vapo
             | r_rec...
             | 
             | [2] https://eur-
             | lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:...
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | I'm sure it was a combination of not wanting to spend
               | money and customers feeling the new pumps with vapor
               | recovery systems were too difficult to operate and so
               | sought out stations that hadn't yet upgraded.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | That doesn't solve the problem of people splashing it on
           | themselves, from faulty handles, which I've experienced and
           | seen within the last decade.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | I don't doubt your experience, but I'd rather put that one
             | on abysmal lax standards in the US... here in Germany,
             | myself and a couple of friends I just asked never have
             | witnessed such a thing outside of freak accidents where
             | someone knocked over a jerry can.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | I believe the standard here is to change the handle once
               | enough people complain about it splashing them. That was
               | the case for the faulty handle that splashed me.
        
             | specialist wrote:
             | My father (and me) washed engine parts with gasoline. And
             | occasionally degreased our hands (followed by dish soap and
             | sugar). We practically bathed in the stuff.
             | 
             | Then my father discovered Goop.
             | 
             | My father also dumped engine oil into storm drains. Then
             | into the ground when that was banned. Yes, he was an idiot.
             | (Becoming a treehugger was probably an act of rebellion.)
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | My father used to change the car oil on the lawn rather
               | than the driveway. He would do this less than 100 ft from
               | the well that supplied our drinking water. At some point
               | he stopped but it certainly lasted through multiple
               | vehicles.
        
               | toss1 wrote:
               | That well is probably contaminated still.
               | 
               | Bought a new house in a semi-rural area, had only ever
               | been farms, zero petrol stations ever existed within at
               | least a 4-mile radius, and mostly downhill.
               | 
               | Yet the water test found MTBE [0], Methyl tert-butyl
               | ether, a gasoline additive.
               | 
               | Had to maintain and replace an activated carbon filter in
               | the water system ever since.
               | 
               | The only possibility is some farmer decades ago dumping
               | oil (IDK if it is in there, or gets in there from piston-
               | ring blow-by) or leaking gasoline somewhere in the
               | watershed.
               | 
               | Awful.
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether
        
               | jabl wrote:
               | Not only does gasoline contain toxic components, it's
               | also incredibly flammable. While using gasoline as a
               | degreaser was a common practice, it's a pretty dangerous
               | habit. Not to mention back when leaded gasoline was a
               | thing, it left a shimmering effect on your hands after
               | the gasoline evaporated. Fun times. Diesel is a lot
               | safer.
               | 
               | For cleaning bike gears etc. I've used a DIY degreaser
               | with water, fuel alcohol, baking soda, and dishwashing
               | liquid. Works ok, and is cheap.
        
           | eep_social wrote:
           | I guess you are referring to stage 2 recovery systems on pump
           | handles which are not uniformly required. As per usual, the
           | US is large and regulations are often bare minimums with
           | different states implementing different interpretations or
           | additional requirements.
           | 
           | Here's the 2012 EPA ruling which loosened the requirement for
           | stage 2 recovery systems:
           | https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/FR-2012-05-16/2012-11846
           | which led directly to this move in Arizona:
           | https://agriculture.az.gov/weights-
           | measures/fueling/gasoline...
        
         | rootsudo wrote:
         | Can also say the same thing how teens can drive moving things
         | that can blow up, crash, cause loss of limb and life... and
         | untold amounts in property damage.
        
         | jabl wrote:
         | To nitpick, at least in the EU regulations limit the benzene
         | content in gasoline to a maximum of 1%. I had a vague
         | recollection the limit was actually slightly stricter in the
         | USA at 0.6%, but maybe my memory fails me.
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | It's 0.62% or less for gas.[1]
           | 
           | [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7918986/#:~:t
           | ex....
        
             | Robotbeat wrote:
             | No, 0.62% is the _average_ : Benzene content in gasoline is
             | federally regulated, with any refineries or importers
             | required to average less than or equal to 0.62% benzene by
             | volume."
             | 
             | The very next sentence in your link mentions it can have up
             | to 2%, as I mentioned: "Generally, gasoline in the United
             | States is likely to contain 0.5%-2.0% benzene by volume
             | [14,15]."
             | 
             | 18% of gasoline's weight is the BTEX aromatics, benzene,
             | toluene, ethylene-benzene, and xylene.
             | https://www.fuelfreedom.org/is-there-a-better-gasoline-
             | addit....
             | 
             | This may be done depending on the season to increase the
             | octane of gasoline.
             | 
             | An average of 18% of these aromatics is not what I'd call
             | just trace amounts...
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | All I recall besides being one of many carcinogens is that it's
       | in cigarette smoke. From a Dutch health page.
       | [https://www.rivm.nl/en/tobacco/harmful-substances-in-tobacco...]
       | 
       | > For smokers, tobacco smoke is the most important source of
       | exposure to benzene. It is released in the smoke when tobacco is
       | burned. Non-smokers are also exposed through tobacco smoke when
       | they inhale smoke passively. A typical smoker inhales an average
       | of ten times more benzene per day than a non-smoker.
        
         | Karawebnetwork wrote:
         | Canada also has a page on Benzene if you want to compare notes:
         | https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/environmenta...
        
       | idlewords wrote:
       | "In mice"
        
       | zinclozenge wrote:
       | When I was taking organic chemistry my (mid-to-late 60s at the
       | time in ~20010) teacher told us an anecdote about benzene when we
       | started learning about aromatic molecules. She told us that they
       | used to clean their lab bench with benzene solvent to make it
       | sparkling clean. Of course, she also told us it was carcinogenic
       | and then finished by saying a lot of her contemporary colleagues
       | that went into organic chemistry research were now dead. Really
       | drives home that a lot of safety precautions and practices are
       | "written in blood", so to speak.
        
         | vondur wrote:
         | Chemists used to basically bathe in Benzene back in the day.
         | I've heard that they as a group tended to die in their 60's.
         | Most teaching Chem labs tend to work with small amounts of
         | chemicals today and try to avoid the nasty stuff if possible.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2031509/
           | which seems to indicate administration is hazardous to your
           | health
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Old books with chemical information would often have things
         | like odor or taste written down for a lot of surprising things.
        
           | tormeh wrote:
           | Chemistry used to be a scientific spin on the Jackass
           | franchise. Although to be fair often it was the assistants
           | doing the taste tests - not the chief chemist at the lab.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | These types of studies are so intensive you really need to know
       | about the subject matter to follow completely.
       | 
       | I hate to ask this but is there anyone who can explain even the
       | bulk of it for a layman?
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | Benzene is everywhere, particularly in trace amounts in otherwise
       | harmless products.
       | 
       | Benzene is a building block for the production of many chemicals,
       | including plastics, synthetic fibers, rubber, resins, dyes and
       | pharmaceuticals, and residual amounts may remain in the final
       | products.
       | 
       | Benzene is used as a solvent and cleaning agent in printing,
       | paint manufacturing, electronics, etc. Benzene contributes to the
       | overall VOC load of paint for example.
       | 
       | And benzene is in the formulation of adhesives and sealants.
       | Regulations often restrict the amount of benzene to a certain
       | amount
        
         | FrustratedMonky wrote:
         | >"Benzene is everywhere, particularly in trace amounts in
         | otherwise harmless products."
         | 
         | Note ->
         | 
         | Everywhere 'Today' because of your listed modern products.
         | 
         | Not, Everywhere because it is some natural thing.
         | 
         | Saying it is "Everywhere" seems to imply it is ok. The point
         | is, we are all exposed now.
        
           | elevaet wrote:
           | I didn't pick up on it being ok as the implication, rather
           | that it's not ok because it's everywhere in _otherwise_
           | harmless products.
        
             | FrustratedMonky wrote:
             | Sorry. Think you are correct. I read word 'harmless' and
             | associated it with entire comment indicating 'harmless'.
             | But on closer reading, it could be as you say, and it is
             | not trying to excuse it.
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | the same thing is true of brominated fire retardants.
           | Somewhere along the way it was decided flameproofing was
           | necessary for consumer products. As a result, we all get a
           | free does of bromine in our homes!
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brominated_flame_retardant
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | That article says that BFRs only account for 20% of the
             | flame retardant market, and the vast majority of that goes
             | into printed circuit boards and electrical components.
             | 
             | There's no reference for that section, and I wonder if that
             | calculation is by value, rather than by volume or weight,
             | which would rather massively skew the calculation. Poisons
             | don't usually care how much you paid for them.
        
         | refurb wrote:
         | The dose makes the poison.
         | 
         | Currently chemical analysis techniques can detect compounds
         | down to picograms/L. That's billionth's of grams per liter. So
         | saying "this material has benzene in it", doesn't really tell
         | you anything about the level of exposure or risk.
         | 
         | Very few compounds are toxic at that kind of exposure.
        
           | nimos wrote:
           | A lot of chemicals seem to have effects on the endocrine
           | system. I wonder if there is potentially an issue with them
           | in aggregate. Such that the dose of any single chemical isn't
           | problematic but all of them together with similar effects
           | causes a problem.
        
             | mistrial9 wrote:
             | you are right -- keyword search "body burden" or "forever
             | chemicals"
        
             | milsorgen wrote:
             | >I wonder if there is potentially an issue with them in
             | aggregate. Such that the dose of any single chemical isn't
             | problematic but all of them together with similar effects
             | causes a problem.
             | 
             | I've been wondering about this a lot in recent years.
             | Particularly in regards to medications/pharmaceuticals but
             | also environmental containments/traces (which can include
             | pharmaceuticals of course), pair with this what we are just
             | starting to understand about plastics exposure and
             | pervasiveness and I really wonder why more health research
             | and workplace safety resources aren't being directed to
             | look at compound and long term exposures.
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | > I really wonder why more health research and workplace
               | safety resources aren't being directed to look at
               | compound and long term exposures.
               | 
               | Probably because no one wants to find the various smoking
               | guns alongside the fears of what each of the ensuing
               | lawsuits would cost. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
        
               | thatguy0900 wrote:
               | What would even happen if we found out plastics are
               | unsafe in small amounts? You'd about have to remake half
               | the world at this point.
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | That would require some interaction between the chemicals,
             | that potentiates their effect. Or they act through common
             | pathways.
             | 
             | But if the threshold effect is 1 microgram, and you're
             | exposed to 1 picogram of 10 different chemicals all working
             | through the same pathway, you're still below the threshold
             | effect.
        
               | nwienert wrote:
               | I think the idea was more if the threshold effect is 1
               | microgram and you're exposed to 100 picograms of 10
               | different chemicals.
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | The study in question literally says a small dose is about as
           | effective as a massive dose.
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | That's because it's a terribly designed study. Their lowest
             | dose shows maximum effect, they should have also tested 0.1
             | mg/kg.
             | 
             | And 1mg/kg of body weight is way more than any person would
             | be exposed to unless you like drinking gasoline.
        
               | InSteady wrote:
               | If you read carefully through the study, the lowest dose
               | does not show anything close to maximum effect in several
               | of the most interesting metrics they were testing
               | (shrinking of white adipose tissue cells, serum levels of
               | leptin indicating endocrine dysfunction). Basically they
               | tested a ton of stuff, and actually selected a pretty
               | good range to get a decent picture. If they wanted to
               | zoom on on one of these, then maybe you are right they
               | should have started at 0.1mg/kg... unless they were
               | zooming on on say decrease in serum levels of leptins in
               | response to benzene exposure, because no significant
               | decrease would be found.
               | 
               | Also, they are obviously interested in lifetime exposure,
               | but the expense of exposing rats to tiny amounts over the
               | course of years is not financially/logistically feasible,
               | unless someone is dumping obscene amounts of money into
               | this specific avenue of research. Instead, they go with
               | much higher doses in 24 exposures over a 4 week period.
        
           | jacobwilliamroy wrote:
           | Just for clarification (because I had to look it up) a
           | picogram is 10^-12 grams.
        
         | permo-w wrote:
         | perhaps as a society we need to stop dismissing things
         | containing plastics, synthetic fibres, rubber, resins, dyes and
         | pharmaceuticals as otherwise harmless. I personally strongly
         | avoid sleeping on or wearing anything containing synthetic
         | fibres unless absolutely necessary. dyes I'm less cautious
         | about, as short of dressing like a hippy they're almost
         | impossible to avoid.
         | 
         | it would be worse if I was a woman I'm sure, god knows what
         | nonsense cosmetics contain
        
           | xxpor wrote:
           | Why are you confident cotton isn't carcinogenic?
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | > it would be worse if I was a woman I'm sure, god knows what
           | nonsense cosmetics contain
           | 
           | They can always not apply them.
        
             | ilikecakeandpie wrote:
             | Societal pressure and beauty standards for women are far
             | different than for men. I agree that they could always just
             | "not apply them", but look at tabloids showing things like
             | "star unrecognizable without makeup" and memes where men
             | are encouraged to take women swimming on a date so they can
             | see what they look like without makeup. It's just not that
             | easy
        
             | MrVandemar wrote:
             | That's startlingly naive. There are breathtaking double
             | standards as applies to women.
             | 
             | One of my friends is a graphic designer / coder working at
             | a web-dev shop. Guys could come in wearing ripped jeans,
             | hoodies, whatever. If she came in with low makeup and
             | casual clothes she was upbraided for not "looking good" in
             | case a client came in.
             | 
             | It's by no means an uncommon incident. It's 2023, there's
             | still a lot of discrimination and inequality. Women
             | choosing to not wear makeup probably don't get jobs and
             | contracts.
        
             | acumenical wrote:
             | Yes, if they want to opt out of society. In most places
             | outside the farm, for a woman not to apply makeup is career
             | and social suicide.
        
         | mint2 wrote:
         | Toluene is often used in place of benzene these days.
         | 
         | That one methyl group makes a significant difference, but I
         | still would avoid unnecessary exposure.
        
         | ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
         | Things i wish i knew before buying a fixer upper car is all the
         | chemicals involved. Just one sniff of the brake cleaner and the
         | rest of the day is gone. Probably some IQ ponis down the drain
         | too. Should've just bought a tesla and be done with it...
        
           | rootsudo wrote:
           | Brake cleaner is the worst, the others are pretty much okay
           | as long as you avoid exposure. ATF, Oil, etc - just wear
           | proper PPE :)
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | A few guys I watch on YouTube repair cars with a mask on when
           | they spray brake cleaner.
        
             | mint2 wrote:
             | Note, the type of mask is pretty important. An n95 for
             | particulates isn't going to stop vapors nearly as well.
        
           | scheme271 wrote:
           | You'll need brake cleaners for Tesla brakes too. Less of it
           | since you change the brake pads and rotors less often but
           | it'll still be used.
        
           | christophilus wrote:
           | > IQ ponis
           | 
           | This made me laugh. Well played, sir.
        
             | samstave wrote:
             | https://youtu.be/iyC2ccF_-Pc
        
         | tines wrote:
         | ChatGPT?
        
         | TSiege wrote:
         | I thought benzene as a solvent was replaced by toluene, which
         | is not good for you either but is less bad.
        
         | ben7799 wrote:
         | Benzene is in sunscreen... at least some of the spray stuff.
         | Apparently it doesn't get on your skin but it's important to
         | apply it in a well ventilated area to make sure you don't
         | breathe any of it.
        
           | mint2 wrote:
           | > Apparently it doesn't get on your skin
           | 
           | That's wishful thinking.
           | 
           | Also, benzene is a common contaminant and breakdown product
           | of chemical sunscreen (as opposed to mineral sunblock)
           | ingredients. I.e. the older the tube of sunscreen is, the
           | more benzene and other undesirable by products it's likely to
           | have.
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | Benzene is in most personal care products in at least trace
           | amounts
           | 
           | https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/CENODS/10001-feature2-benze.
           | ..
        
             | InSteady wrote:
             | According to the National Institute for Occupational Safety
             | and Health, it is a big enough concern to recommend safety
             | equipment in exposure at or above 0.1 ppm. So most of the
             | activities / sources on that diagram don't warrant too much
             | concern, other than cigarette smoking and fresh pain fumes.
             | 
             | Although benzene exposure from cosmetics probably depends
             | highly on what you are using. As per another reply here,
             | those spray on sunscreens are are pretty terrible (likely
             | due to using butane, propane, etc as propellants). Exposure
             | can get as high as 6 ppm in some cases.
        
             | bob_theslob646 wrote:
             | May please provide another source rather than an image with
             | the cutout of a house and showing the parts per million of
             | benzene versus the actual personal care products you were
             | talking about that contain benzene?
        
           | koboll wrote:
           | Not just the spray stuff https://www.valisure.com/valisure-
           | newsroom/valisure-detects-...
        
       | toss1 wrote:
       | Another in a long line of Benzine-related disorders.
       | 
       | And gas stoves pollute indoor air with Benzene [1].
       | 
       | Draw your own conclusions about efforts to regulate supplying new
       | buildings with natgas. On one side is "lets improve health for
       | everyone and do something about anthropogenic climate change" and
       | on the other side is "muh fredumbs to poison myself and everyone
       | around me while enriching fossil fuel companies".
       | 
       | Let the downvotefest begin.
       | 
       | [1] https://health.wusf.usf.edu/npr-health/npr-
       | health/2023-06-16...
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | Induction stoves are better in every possible regard, except
         | price.
         | 
         | Well that and they can get too hot, I warped the bottom of my
         | carbon steel wok because my induction stove heated it up too
         | fast! Not a problem I had with any previous gas stoves!
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | All of these studies come to the very obvious conclusion that a
         | good hood fan, that vents outdoors, isn't optional. The scary
         | numbers, as in this study, come from not using a hood fan, with
         | "good hood fan" numbers being somewhat negligible.
         | 
         | I think a good middle ground (since you can't ask everyone to
         | rewire their homes for electric) would be some sponsored
         | program to install heat detecting hood fan switch, so they
         | can't be left off by mistake.
        
         | mrguyorama wrote:
         | Imagine making being able to willfully poison your kids with
         | Benzine a cultural issue. There wasn't even a threat to fossil
         | fuel industry or gas stoves, because the discussion was just
         | that, an internal discussion, with no resolution. Even before
         | the insane screaming about "they terk ur gas stove!" I'm pretty
         | sure the outcome was "maybe we should think about banning gas
         | stoves in new builds sometime in the next ten years". Nobody
         | will ever come take an appliance out of your home, that's just
         | not how the US regulates thing. If you want, you can still go
         | buy a used 60 year old refrigerator with a stupidly old
         | refrigerant that will try it's best to destroy the ozone layer
         | that we put so much effort into fixing.
         | 
         | It's infuriating to me that the people claiming they are so
         | oppressed are able to wipe out 10% of a giant company's value
         | because they DARED to give a trans person $50k after supporting
         | pride parades for decades and nobody cared. It's only now that
         | 30% of the country is screaming about """stop making me punch
         | you, you weirdos""" that these stupid, pointless things matter.
         | Apparently rainbows are verbotin now, because only "the gays"
         | use colors.
         | 
         | Meanwhile the generations after boomers are so feckless and
         | stupid as to be unable to even TOUCH companies that involve
         | themselves in actual child murder and slavery. Nestle is doing
         | fine.
         | 
         | Puts me out of my goddamned mind. At least it shows us boycotts
         | absolutely can work, even against some of the largest
         | multinational companies, if only the generations that spend 90%
         | of their free time liking socialist content on tiktok could
         | spend even a second thinking about what they are doing before
         | hitting the one click buy button on everything. But no, they
         | are unwilling to take even the most minor reduction in life
         | quality to make the world better.
        
           | takeyourmeds666 wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | Nobody was taking your rights. Read.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | They must have perceived some threats because they created
           | this entire astroturf campaign for the pro-gas side.
           | https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54?t=708
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | No, they didn't perceive threats, they perceived
             | _opportunity_ to push harder on the culture war, since it
             | 's basically their leading platform and leading means of
             | generating the outrage that keeps their people voting. The
             | "threat" was entirely manufactured. The group discussing it
             | were not even TALKING about banning or confiscating stoves.
        
       | mchannon wrote:
       | Looks like a small dose is about as effective as a massive dose.
       | 
       | What's the downside of a quack doctor selling benzene-
       | contaminated supplements for fat loss?
       | 
       | I'm sure there's a huge increase in cancer risk, but wouldn't
       | this cause a lot of fat loss in a human?
        
         | EatingWithForks wrote:
         | There's something super dystopian that we look at a cancer-
         | causing, bone-marrow-killing chemical and go "look, we can use
         | this for weight loss!". I get fatness is a plague or whatever
         | but thin == healthy is totally broken if you're using poison to
         | get thin.
        
           | xkcd-sucks wrote:
           | If you're into super ~metal~ dystopian weight loss aids that
           | are available today, check out
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol
        
             | zinclozenge wrote:
             | "Available" is a generous word. It's actually pretty hard
             | to find even from underground anabolic steroid sellers. The
             | only reason I was able to get my hands on it was because a
             | seller was getting rid of his stock. The main reason is
             | that it's actually pretty crummy for fat loss. If you
             | actually want to lose weight you'd probably be pointed to a
             | low dose of hgh, which has a ton of other benefits to help
             | you lose fat.
        
             | rybosworld wrote:
             | I remember reading that body builders and models will take
             | this. It basically causes your mitochondria to work less
             | efficiently, and thus burn more calories. Take too much and
             | you will die because your body can't regulate it's
             | temperature. Scary stuff.
        
             | EatingWithForks wrote:
             | Yeah frankly I'd rather fat people stay fat and focus on
             | lifestyle changes to health, fat or not, than eating life
             | threatening explosives to get thin.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | I agree with your opinion, but the other way to look at
               | it is that most fat people know they are fat, "want" to
               | do something about it, but just don't because losing
               | weight is really hard, from a human level. Millions of
               | years of evolution are working against you to lose fat
               | stores, because 99.99% of people who have ever done that
               | starved to death.
               | 
               | If sketchy drugs are the only ACTUAL way to get the
               | 3/4ths of the country to lose weight and be healthier,
               | shouldn't we try it?
               | 
               | Though, the end result of that is probably finding out
               | that if you are a "healthy" weight from drugs, but your
               | diet is still mainly mcdonalds and steaks and food made
               | mostly of butter, you probably will have just as many
               | health problems. And there's no exercise drug.
        
               | EatingWithForks wrote:
               | > If sketchy drugs are the only ACTUAL way to get the
               | 3/4ths of the country to lose weight and be healthier,
               | shouldn't we try it?
               | 
               | Well the thing is, I actually am super skeptical that
               | _eating explosive poison is healthier than being a
               | fatty_. I am way more optimistic for wegovy and other
               | hunger-regulating hormone treatments that don 't seem to
               | cause you to die from overheating, and I'm all for fat
               | people taking them if it helps them be healthier. But
               | like, I'd rather a fat person stay fat and work on doing
               | runs (even though exercise doesn't help much in losing
               | weight, exercise is still good for fat people) than
               | change nothing about their lifestyle besides eating
               | poison. Skinny isn't always == healthy and shouldn't be
               | treated like an "at any costs" measure. A great way to
               | lose 25% of your body weight is to chop off a leg, but
               | chopping off legs is obviously a stupid way to get
               | healthy.
        
             | Firmwarrior wrote:
             | It sounds like something out of a cartoon
             | 
             | It's an explosive compound that causes you to overheat and
             | die if ingested in too large a dose
        
               | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
               | All I can says is: I learned something new today.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | davikr wrote:
       | Benzene also causes aplastic anemia when exposed to chronically,
       | like in the case of some gas station workers. This is a pretty
       | well known phenomenon.
        
         | specialist wrote:
         | Yup.
         | 
         | I had aplastic anemia as a kid. (Fixed with a bone marrow
         | transplant.) I previously had a summer job cleaning a small PCB
         | mfg (1983). It was fucking awful. I read that company was later
         | fined for improper use, storage, and disposal.
         | 
         | Can't prove cause & effect, of course. But childhood aplastic
         | anemia is pretty rare in my area (vs agricultural areas). So
         | it's plausible.
        
       | Octokiddie wrote:
       | Benzene's wide-ranging negative health effects have been known
       | for a long time. It's far from clear why this article reporting
       | the results of a mouse study with rather unremarkable findings is
       | on the front page.
        
         | kens wrote:
         | HN makes much more sense if you think of it as a collection of
         | chat rooms with titles. People are upvoting the topic and
         | discussing benzene, mostly unconnected to the actual article.
         | (Serious question: did anyone who upvoted the post read the
         | article first?)
        
         | ramraj07 wrote:
         | Because someone posted it at the right time and not everyone
         | knows benzene toxicity has an endocrine component.
        
         | thinkcontext wrote:
         | My guess is because there was a study reported on last week
         | that talked about benzene emissions from gas stoves.
        
           | reddisbad wrote:
           | I thought it was related to a discussion on HN last week
           | about an article that discussed the unreported and untracked
           | levels of benzene in hand sanitiser, after regulations were
           | eased during Covid.
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | I have this large plastic box that has quite a strong smell when
       | I open it.
       | 
       | I guess the plastic is decaying or reacting with something that's
       | in it.
        
       | pfdietz wrote:
       | Benzene kills fat tissue?
       | 
       | BRB, going to write the "Benzene Diet" book.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | The human brain is 60 percent fat
        
           | CommitSyn wrote:
           | Woah, did not know that. So can true 'fat burners' like DNP
           | give you brain damage, or is that something the blood brain
           | barrier protects against?
        
             | com2kid wrote:
             | Another fun fact: the brain being majority made of fat is
             | why ultra low fat diets can cause depression!
             | 
             | It is also why it is recommended babies consume dietary
             | fats, low fat diets are terrible for brain development.
             | 
             | Want a healthy baby? Add some organ meat (check levels so
             | as to not OD on certain vitamins) and (low/no mercury) fish
             | skins to their diet!
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | DNP doesn't actually target fat that I am aware of. It
             | messes with ATP and makes it incredibly inefficient, so
             | your cells burn basically everything including fat to try
             | and keep up with energy demands. This also can kill you due
             | to the heat produced.
             | 
             | It's also an explosive.
        
               | piuantiderp wrote:
               | Ooof, messing with ATP to "burn basically everything"
               | sounds like a ticket to cancer or accelerated aging.
        
               | zinclozenge wrote:
               | I took a standard DNP fat loss dose, the effects (weight
               | loss and others) are vastly overstated. You'd have to
               | take well in excess of any recommended dose to get to the
               | point where the waste heat production would become
               | dangerous. You're more likely to develop a cataract as a
               | deleterious effect.
               | 
               | I'd wager most of my weight loss came from the fact that
               | I just wasn't eating because I felt awful.
        
               | mikeodds wrote:
               | were you training at the same time? any noticeable
               | effects if so?
        
               | zinclozenge wrote:
               | I tried, but DNP basically gave me a perpetual fever (aka
               | pyrexia) so I didn't train. I assume it would have had a
               | pretty noticeable effect though.
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | what else did you expect to happen? The only place I can
               | see it wouldn't be a problem would be in the arctic or
               | antarctic. Air temperature is so low you might not have
               | any issues.
        
               | EatingWithForks wrote:
               | According to wikipedia, the actual tolerance of the dose
               | varies widely. Because of this I would strongly discount
               | individual accounts of safe experiences.
        
               | zinclozenge wrote:
               | Sure, although I guess to be clear I wouldn't recommend
               | DNP to anyone because it's absolutely not the miracle
               | weight loss drug it seems to be when you read about it on
               | the internet.
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | It's not fat _tissue_ (that is, fat cells.)
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | Also causes Leukaemia. You get thin but not for good reasons.
        
       | treeman79 wrote:
       | I and family was expose to very large amounts of benzene from a
       | gas leak over the course of three months. It was a rental house
       | came with that smell, and they kept making excuses as to why it
       | had a weird smell.
       | 
       | It's taken about five years to get something resembling normal
       | health.
       | 
       | Intelligence of all family members dropped like crazy. Blood
       | started clotting a lot. Nerve pain and inflammation were the
       | norm.
       | 
       | Doctors didn't know what effect those chemicals would have so
       | refused to sign any paperwork saying it was cause of all health
       | problems. So lawyers wouldn't take the case.
       | 
       | Only in the past year can me and my oldest daughter start having
       | normal conversations like we used to.
        
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