[HN Gopher] ELO Everything
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ELO Everything
Author : admp
Score : 102 points
Date : 2023-06-19 16:57 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (eloeverything.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (eloeverything.co)
| graypegg wrote:
| Checking out the leaderboard, there's something so viscerally
| funny about the best things ever being
|
| 1) Milk 2) Toronto 3) React
|
| Thanks for the laugh! Fun little app
| tectec wrote:
| I think you'd get a lot of cycles in this, so the rating won't be
| very stable.
| jaroniscaring wrote:
| I got excited about this but then I realized it was about ranking
| random things instead of self-ranking your own abilities on an
| ELO scale
| FrustratedMonky wrote:
| Great Concept, would like to see this applied to many sub-
| categories.
| drexlspivey wrote:
| Someone should do it just for people, they could call it
| Facemash or something
| echeese wrote:
| Elo isn't an acronym/initialism.
| nameistaken wrote:
| Cool story bro.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It is better if you just imagine that we're ranking things in
| order of similarity to ELO (electric light orchestra).
| craz8 wrote:
| Twitter: -100; Mastodon: zero; Bluesky: 5,000
|
| Yup, this could work
| bee_rider wrote:
| Now I kinda want to hear a heavy metal remake of Mr Blue
| Sky.
| splatcollision wrote:
| Weezer has you covered.
| zuminator wrote:
| No need to be coy; it's named after Arpad Elo, the chess player
| who came up with this general ranking method.
| TechBro8615 wrote:
| While we're on the subject, neither is TOR.
| xcdzvyn wrote:
| Tor is an acronym for "The Onion Router", it just isn't
| capitalised as such.
|
| [0] https://support.torproject.org/about/why-is-it-called-
| tor/
|
| [1] https://www.britannica.com/technology/Tor-encryption-
| network
| ftxbro wrote:
| at some point social media posts will put mistakes like this
| just to bait engagement
| Laremere wrote:
| See also Tom Scott's video "1,204,986 Votes Decided: What Is The
| Best Thing?" https://youtu.be/ALy6e7GbDRQ
|
| In it he mentions that he kept the site up for only a short
| amount of time, in part to prevent anyone from writing a bot
| which could game it. Unfortunately, that has not been the case
| with Elo Everything, which has a clearly gamed leader board.
| graypegg wrote:
| A gamed leaderboard is kind of interesting in the same way a
| doping-only olympics would be interesting.
| ArekDymalski wrote:
| Sriracha sauce vs Electric chair?
|
| For several reasons the choice isn't that obvious.
| xd1936 wrote:
| Reminds me of Tom Scott's similar project[1].
|
| 1. https://youtu.be/ALy6e7GbDRQ
| klysm wrote:
| I want to see a graph of the rankings over time
| chrischen wrote:
| Idea would be great for product recommendations, as long as the
| spam issue can be solved. Most people can make a reliable
| comparison between two products but maybe not among many.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| Considering this thing ranks Adolph Hitler as the best "thing"
| currently, above other things such as sexual intercourse, the
| entire Earth, and Oxygen, I don't think I would trust any
| product recommendation such a system would spit out.
| remram wrote:
| Recommending the same popular things to everyone is a bad
| recommendation system.
| paulddraper wrote:
| > as long as the spam issue can be solved
|
| At the time of writing, Adolf Hitler is #1 on the leaderboard
| with Elo 1754.
| lbotos wrote:
| 6 minutes later -- my leaderboard shows oxygen at the top,
| and hitler is not in the top 100.
| jmmcd wrote:
| 5 minutes later, it's Hitler #1 again
|
| And democracy - "I love democracy!" - at #15
| nr11_bullseye wrote:
| Now he has -700 Elo. Did good faith just win or did the
| owner of the website intervene?
| pph wrote:
| #589 -12579 Vladimir Putin #588 149 Adolf Hitler #587 658
| Satan
| GloriousKoji wrote:
| Something must have broke/exploited. Hitler is still #1
| with over 2000 matches but Baseball is in #2 with over
| 100M matches. The next 20 are 1000-2000 matches.
| [deleted]
| blowski wrote:
| What's the practical application of this? It makes sense in chess
| where you have two players using the same rules, so a comparison
| makes sense. But is Postgres a better database than Redis? Is The
| Godfather a better film than Lord of the Rings? These questions
| make no sense. Political candidates can't get an increased value
| simply for being less popular.
|
| So is the idea that you use this in a very technical space for,
| say, ranking jobs in a queue? Or is it intended for an e-commerce
| site to order by product ratings?
| jjfoooo4 wrote:
| I think it is supposed to be fun
| blowski wrote:
| Oh so I'm just overthinking it? Sorry. I thought ELO was some
| trendy new algorithm being used somewhere, and this was a
| jokey application of it.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I suspect I'm overthinking it even more! I couldn't even
| come up with an answer to the first matchup because I have
| no idea what I'm supposed to base my ranking on.
| lumb63 wrote:
| Neat, but in the time I spent playing, Hitler surpassed curiosity
| and bread, to hit number one.
| shp0ngle wrote:
| He also has the highest number of matches, so somebody is
| clearly messing up with this.
|
| Maybe the API is just very simple and somebody is just sending
| upvotes to Hitler infinitely.
| paulddraper wrote:
| Now a good soul just needs to do the opposite.
| jedberg wrote:
| > Maybe the API is just very simple and somebody is just
| sending upvotes to Hitler infinitely
|
| Yep, it has no authentication. You can just keep posting to
| the API with Hitler beating everything.
| GaggiX wrote:
| It's funny how Hitler is winning by a very large margin.
| airstrike wrote:
| His winrate is probably terrible, though
| GaggiX wrote:
| The winrate is terribly high or he wouldn't be first.
| RektBoy wrote:
| because people are spamming HTTP POST with payload and there is
| no verification process, just use ID of the Hitler.
| cheeze wrote:
| Given that it's just "rank higher" - I think you have 2 reasons
| for this
|
| 1. People that think its funny and choose Hitler
|
| 2. People who compare Hitler to something like "Ferrari" or
| "Rome, Italy" and go "yeah he's had more impact (from my
| perspective)"
|
| In that same sense, Hitler is arguably one of the greatest
| leaders the world has ever seen. He was just a horrible person
| who did horrible things.
|
| I am (obviously) not a fan at all of Hitler, Nazism, etc. but
| it's had a profound impact on our world, regardless of whether
| it was horrible impact :(
|
| But yeah, it's obvious there is some gaming of the system. Hard
| to rank Hitler higher than "earth" or "electricity"
| GaggiX wrote:
| Definitely it's for the meme.
|
| (Also the history of Rome has definitely been more impactful
| than Hitler.)
| EscapeFromNY wrote:
| My first question was Therapy vs Dwayne Johnson.
| https://i.imgur.com/RIVw4JG.png
|
| How could you ever choose?
| Sholmesy wrote:
| Hitler is currently rank 1, so, that's an interesting application
| of Godwin's Law
| RobotToaster wrote:
| I had no idea he was that good at chess.
| shp0ngle wrote:
| https://eloeverything.co/leaderboard
|
| Yeah I think someone gamed this
| kthejoker2 wrote:
| I'm not gonna lie, I cackled at the first comparison ("reddit" vs
| "The Garden of Earthly Delights")
|
| This feels like retro Internet, I love it.
| kylewatson wrote:
| Lol, I made it until it asked me to choose between Elon Musk and
| Torture.
| GaggiX wrote:
| Baseball has beaten Hitler with 100000001 matches, surely no one
| is writing bots for the site, surely.
| RektBoy wrote:
| Rofl, who is spamming these POST requests to Hitler? :D
| kdmccormick wrote:
| Unironically, I want this, but for restaurants/stores/etc,
| essentially a replacement for Google Maps' helpful but deeply
| flawed one-to-five-star (but actually 4.0-4.9-star) rating
| system.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| At least the 5 star scale has become exceedingly clear that
| anything below 4.0 is hot trash.
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| You want restaurants to be rated by random people who have
| never been to them?
| joeframbach wrote:
| When you search for something on Yelp and you get 10 results,
| to places you've never been to before, and despite not
| visiting any of them beforehand, you choose one. That's
| what's happening here, and that's what's happening in Google
| search results. No difference.
| Aachen wrote:
| ... but that doesn't help informing another person's
| decision. _Someone_ should track all of everyone 's
| restaurant visits and quiz them in this style and publish
| the data for everyone's benefit
| Underphil wrote:
| Hitler #1 of course, because the Internet.
| 7373737373 wrote:
| Would be great to include all aesthetics from the aesthetics
| wiki:
| https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/aesthetics/images/d/dd/Aes...
| montroser wrote:
| Ruiners of all good things incoming...
|
| It's cool, but dealing with bad-faith participants is what is
| really difficult about these types of exercises. It works great
| until the hurt people find it, and then the hurt people hurt
| people -- perpetuating their sadness unto others by upvoting the
| bad things.
| mellonaut wrote:
| within 15min of you posting this, hitler has become the #1
| ranked thing on the leaderboard
| [deleted]
| chungy wrote:
| It's a silly web site that means nothing. If you attribute hurt
| or sadness to the result on it, that's not the fault of anyone
| else.
| [deleted]
| screye wrote:
| Naah, it's simple things like these that are fun. Choosing Rice
| instead of Einstein was the highlight of my day.
| dr_pyser wrote:
| I mean, billions of people have lived because of rice, so I
| don't think it's necessarily even a bad take.
| berbec wrote:
| The girl with a pearl earring vs kidney stone disease tripped
| me up for a ms or three.
| bombcar wrote:
| Golden State Warriors or Covid-19? Easy choice.
| screye wrote:
| I am glad that Hitler isn't #1 on this list anymore.
| Because Hitler, despite his best efforts, could only be a
| distant 2nd when pitted again the true #1 best human being
| : Rupert Murdoch.
| tnecniv wrote:
| I got The Bosnian Genocide and the Dallas Cowboys and that
| one was a tough call...
| incahoots wrote:
| It was rice or Elon for me lol
| Maxion wrote:
| Taiwan vs international trade and Taiwan vs Twitter
| verification were both wild thought experiments
| schappim wrote:
| What? You're telling me that Rupert Murdoch #1 with 1337
| matches is not a coincidence[1]?
|
| [1] https://imgur.com/a/mQFsg7x
| [deleted]
| mjamesaustin wrote:
| Went to the Leaderboard and Hitler is currently in 10th place.
| So yeah, that happened quickly. :/
| ralphstodomingo wrote:
| Currently in first now
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Aaand now he's in first, with over 2000 ELO, far above the
| Earth, oxygen, or sex, which each have barely 1500.
| lwansbrough wrote:
| I don't think higher rating is an endorsement. The question
| is only: which do you rank higher? I think Adolf Hitler ranks
| quite highly on notoriety, especially if the comparison is
| inherently notorious (ie. Hitler vs. Jeffrey Epstein.) So I'm
| not sure Hitler ranking highly is in bad faith.
| ctvo wrote:
| > So I'm not sure Hitler ranking highly is in bad faith.
|
| I think they may be ranking Hitler the artist or Hitler the
| leader surely. It can't possibly be the more simple
| explanation of the internet being full of trolls who think
| anonymous graffiti is funny.
|
| Why is it only on HN that this sort of contortion happens?
| bee_rider wrote:
| I think a more likely answer is that people are not taking
| it very seriously, and are just picking Hitler as a troll
| answer.
| jedberg wrote:
| It's moving around a lot, because Hitler was in first place
| about 90 seconds before you posted this.
| mkagenius wrote:
| Its at 2031 elo now, while the closest to it is 1500 elo.
| Lot of catching up to do but I think there is still good
| chance to catch it before it becomes much harder.
| alecco wrote:
| I could see this as real-life version of The Office
| episode where they stop working to decide if Hilary Swank
| is hot or not. Busy Monday, I guess.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Family_Paper
| cstross wrote:
| So not to be confused with 70s pomp rock band ELO, aka the
| Electric Light Orchestra!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Light_Orchestra
| smlacy wrote:
| Reminds me of '00s whatsbetter.com!
| zaps wrote:
| Or 90s hotornot.com
| shp0ngle wrote:
| While the idea is good, the API is gameable, as the POST request
| is just whoever you vote for vs who are you not, instead of some
| session ID.
|
| Predictably, someone is gaming it and spamming Adolf Hitler.
| paulddraper wrote:
| "The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative
| skill levels of players in zero-sum games such as chess." [1]
|
| Each outcome adjusts the winner's and loser's Elo ratings
| according based on the current difference.
|
| For example:
|
| - A 1500 elo beats a 1300 elo. The winner gains 5 and the loser
| loses 5.
|
| - A 1300 elo beats a 1500 elo. The winner gains 15 and the lower
| loses 15.
|
| The math is such that a 100 point difference is 2:1 advantage. A
| 400 difference is 9:1 advantage.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
| yowzadave wrote:
| I wonder if ELO makes sense for something like this that is so
| inherently unstable/not-normally distributed? I.e., in chess,
| if you're playing an opponent whose rating is +800, you have
| less than 1% chance of beating them. But in this case, we have
| Peppa Pig currently at 1875, vs. the BMW 3 series at 1072. Can
| we really say with any confidence that Peppa would beat the BMW
| 99 times out of 100? It seems unlikely that increasing the
| number of matches will change the instability of this rating.
| Tenoke wrote:
| Yes, it makes sense except that the rating will be
| provisional and the variance really high until you have a lot
| of comparisons.
| paulddraper wrote:
| It makes sense, unless the comparison is non-transitive.
|
| I.e. a scissors-paper-rock scenario.
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(page generated 2023-06-19 23:02 UTC)