[HN Gopher] Chemists introduce a two-step process for making pho...
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Chemists introduce a two-step process for making phosphorus
compounds
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 62 points
Date : 2023-06-18 15:09 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| Nydhal wrote:
| Wow, I wonder how this will affect phosphate and fertilizer
| prices.
| adrian_b wrote:
| It should have no effect on fertilizer or phosphate prices,
| because it is a cheaper method to produce certain organic
| compounds of phosphorus.
|
| Phosphate is used as an input for these chemical processes, but
| the fraction of the phosphate production that is used for such
| processes is very small in comparison with what goes into
| fertilizers.
|
| The only possible effect is a price reduction for some organic
| compounds of phosphorus, e.g. for some pesticides.
| nickpinkston wrote:
| Also, came here for the fertilizer info, as I believe P
| deposits are getting more expensive? (happy to be corrected)
| scythe wrote:
| Money quote (from the paper):
|
| >Here we report an approach using _trifluoromethanesulfonic
| anhydride_
|
| Turning gold into lead, basically. It's interesting that such a
| process is possible but Tf2O is made by using, IIRC, phosphorus
| pentoxide:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifluoromethanesulfonic_anhyd...
| adrian_b wrote:
| If trifluoromethanesulfonic anhydride is made from phosphorus
| pentoxide, i.e. from the anhydride of phosphoric acid, that is
| perfectly fine for their purpose, which is to produce a
| phosphorylation agent starting from cheap phosphoric acid
| without passing through a reduced form of phosphorus, like
| elemental phosphorus.
|
| This just means that phosphoric acid enters the production
| process in two different steps.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| So... I did my PhD in a group that did a lot of phosphorus and P4
| chemistry. Even though I rarely dabbled myself, the most
| interesting ligands were, iirc, unoxidized phosphorus compounds.
| This has two oxygens still, notoriously difficult to get rid of.
|
| My coworkers decided to take on a 'move fast and break things'
| mentality, and hilariously had to transport a crate full of
| highly dangerous P4 by car to our lab when the last European
| supplier closed down, as to secure the future of the research;
| had they crashed the car, that would have made for some
| interesting headlines. So, not detracting from the importance of
| avoiding P4; but I'm left wondering if this still needs work to
| really make an impact on industry and research.
|
| I fully accept the (huge) possibility that I'm wrong though
| because it's been a while and this never really was my specialty.
|
| Either way cool to see P4 chemistry on the HN front page!
| HPsquared wrote:
| The article says it's better for the environment (maybe less
| energy consumption or waste products?)... Either way, that's
| one way to get permission for the using a more hazardous
| process.
|
| Edit: any other interesting John Drury Clark style anecdotes?
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Hehe, well, to add some nuance: P4 is incredibly nasty stuff,
| and you definitely don't want a domestic terrorist or
| whatever buffoon with a lust for chemical destruction to get
| a hold of this stuff, so the whole batch of P4 sitting at
| that shut down factory was due to disappear into the proper
| channels of destruction. But it's a small world, so a guy
| knew a guy, and we were good to pick up a material quantity
| that wasn't too felonious, but sizable enough to keep the
| somewhat underfunded research going.
|
| I got out of chemistry for being too clumsy, a hazard for
| myself and others. I left without shoes one day, having
| dropped a big flask with incredibly smelly and volatile
| amines on my feet. They smell like essence of fish, so, the
| shoes were a total loss. I kept a spare pair in the lab ever
| since.
|
| Another one, that doesn't really go anywhere: Working with
| tertiary butyl lithium was always super fun. It's this
| crowded group of negatively charged carbon that is forced,
| against its will, to bond to a positive lithium ion. The
| thing is pretty eager to react, but funnily enough it's
| always dissolved in flammable solvents. If you spritz a
| little bit out of your syringe, it immediately goes woosh.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e9VNaUY-
| ri4&pp=ygUYdGVydCBidXR...
| [deleted]
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