[HN Gopher] My father may be gone, but 'our' radio is still going
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My father may be gone, but 'our' radio is still going
        
       Author : mirthlessend
       Score  : 131 points
       Date   : 2023-06-17 22:17 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.latimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.latimes.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | varjag wrote:
       | It feels like LA Times are appearing a notch more often on the
       | front page since they've dropped their ban of European users.
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | Btw, anyone planning to tinker with valves/ tubes....I thoroughly
       | encourage it...but you need to learn to safely discharge caps
       | before you open valve equipment. Caps can hold 'instant death'
       | voltages long after they are unplugged. A search on the interwebs
       | will show you the way
        
       | troymc wrote:
       | As Kevin Kelly pointed out in his book _What Technology Wants_ ,
       | most technologies never actually go extinct. There remain people
       | who are still interested in making "new" ones and reparing broken
       | ones. And thanks to the internet, it's fairly easy to find them.
       | For tube radios:
       | 
       | http://www.xtalman.com/ --- Borden Radio Company sells kits to
       | make all kinds of old radios, including tube radios.
       | 
       | https://vacuumtubes.net/ --- "Welcome to the Vacuum Tubes
       | division of Radio Electric Supply, home of the largest supply of
       | New Old Stock vacuum tubes in the world."
        
         | delgaudm wrote:
         | Assuming the manufacturer "allows" it repairable at all, which
         | seems to be a lot less common now.
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | Yeah, pretty big change over the decades in that regard.
           | 1940's radio? Comes with schematic, repair manual, and an
           | order form for replacement parts. 2020's radio? Comes closed
           | with special "security" screws, adhesive, etc., encrypted
           | firmware, and a nearly guaranteed lawsuit if you have the
           | audacity to open it up, reverse engineer it and publish
           | schematics, repair instructions, etc.
           | 
           | This is not progress. :-(
        
       | winrid wrote:
       | A nice story.
       | 
       | This person should consider replacing the capacitors in the
       | radio, or having someone do it.
       | 
       | The old, bad wax capacitors will quickly burn out the tubes. The
       | tubes themselves are quite reliable.
       | 
       | If they do that, it could last decades more easily.
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20230619132008/https://www.latime...
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | My grandfather, a retired farmer and factory worker, always had
       | an old police scanner going in his kitchen. Prompted me to get a
       | modern programmable one years ago at Radio Shack, which drew
       | hoots of laughter from my city colleagues when I told them. I
       | didn't get the derision - it let him (and me) understand what's
       | local emergency services are dealing with.
        
         | creeble wrote:
         | Which reminds me of when I was 19 and was stopped by the police
         | for what I assumed was hitchhiking - since I had just walked up
         | a hill from the highway where I had been dropped off after
         | hitching home from college for the weekend.
         | 
         | Alas, the reason he stopped me (which he never mentioned of
         | course) was that I looked very close to the description of
         | someone who had just robbed a bank in my home town.
         | 
         | By the time I got to my parents house, everyone in town had
         | "heard" I had been arrested for bank robbery thanks to a few
         | folks with police scanners.
        
           | ilamont wrote:
           | I had an experience about 10 years ago when I unknowingly
           | jogged in a large park that an armed robbery suspect had just
           | escaped into. I matched the basic description (WM, dark
           | T-shirt) and all a sudden a police officer pops out of the
           | bushes and asks to see my ID. I don't know if anyone was
           | listening on the scanner, though.
           | 
           | Much of the activity I have heard on scanners is mundane:
           | running plates, responding to alarms, ambulance calls, noise
           | complaints, accidents blocking traffic, minor disputes where
           | one side feels compelled to summon the police.
           | 
           | There are the tragedies. Lots of medical calls where someone
           | is unresponsive, which could be anything from an OD to a
           | heart attack. "Domestic calls," usually fights between
           | spouses or parents and adult children. Mental health
           | emergencies. Seniors wandering the street, who have forgotten
           | where they live.
           | 
           | Then there are the serious emergencies: fires, armed
           | robberies, once a car chase. When I first got started decades
           | ago there was a Boston police channel that a gang unit
           | sometimes used but since then they appear to have migrated to
           | a non-public frequency. I frequently hear police now asking
           | specific colleagues to call them, I assume because the info
           | shouldn't be shared over the regular dispatch frequency or
           | would take too long to explain and tie up the channel.
        
         | interroboink wrote:
         | Why were they laughing about it, do you think?
         | 
         | To me, it'd be like someone saying: "Oh, you're curious and
         | like to look at the stars? How _droll!_ "
        
           | ilamont wrote:
           | I was very surprised when it happened, and after that I did
           | not share much about my personal life. I think they thought
           | it was incredibly corny and/or nerdy.
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | That's a fun read. I've scored some interesting radio gear from
       | the street and found that in the worst case, I can at least give
       | it a good cleaning and pass it along, even if I decide not to fix
       | it. :-)
       | 
       | Recently I started keeping a radio switched on in the kitchen all
       | day, and the family seems to like it. I thought there might be
       | complaints, probably from my teenagers, but I switch it to the
       | pop charts stations a few days a week. And the kids are even OK
       | with 80s stations and tunes they remember from the memes of
       | yesteryear!
       | 
       | There are some interesting hidden advantages to having that thing
       | on all day. For example, during emergencies like extended power
       | outages, it's a very easy and reassuring way to get updates.
       | 
       | But it all started when I grew up listening to Dad dialing in his
       | favorite station, KIXI-AM in Seattle, every morning at his
       | office.
       | 
       | Got to work with a headache and too many projects to finish?
       | Well, how long can you focus on those temporary annoyances while
       | the dulcet tones of _Love Story_ play? (Andy Williams, not Taylor
       | Swift)
       | 
       | (BTW if you like that idea, tune into Hayama Beach FM Japan
       | streaming for the next couple of hours and thank me later...)
       | 
       | Hopefully my own kids don't feel too much pressure to check
       | propagation on the bands with a handheld wideband receiver like
       | Dad does on vacation at the beach, but I'm glad they get to
       | experience what a good radio can do.
        
         | don-code wrote:
         | I did a walk-up amateur radio workshop with the Girl Scouts at
         | a STEM festival a few months ago. I likewise was very surprised
         | by two things: the younger kids had _no idea_ what they were
         | looking at (isn't the radio in the phones? Spotify?), and they
         | were also completely enamored with the gear. Some of the older
         | kids (14-ish if I had to guess?) spent a lot of time with it.
         | 
         | For the younger (7-10 year old) kids who came to our table, we
         | actually didn't do anything terribly technical - we just asked
         | them, "What's your favorite type of music?", showed them how to
         | tune to an appropriate local FM station, and let them see the
         | waterfall plot of the station, put the big headphones on, and
         | that sort of thing. If any of them showed an interest, I'd hand
         | them a hand-held CB radio, one of the big clunky 80s ones from
         | Stranger Things, and let them make "their own radio station",
         | then showed them how to pick it up like the FM station. We got
         | a lot of younger visitors this way!
        
           | themodelplumber wrote:
           | That's awesome, seems like a great contribution to the
           | community. CB radio, too, that's not so common these days. I
           | scan for it sometimes but never find any local traffic.
        
             | zhengyi13 wrote:
             | I get the sense that there are some folk still actively
             | using CB, but I also have the sense that for most people,
             | their needs are better met nowadays by GMRS radios (which
             | are in the UHF/~70cm bands, rather than 11m CB), which
             | provide for legally higher power transmissions, at the cost
             | of a nearly completely unenforced license.
             | 
             | Part two of course is location: I'd expect CB to be more
             | prominent on big cross-country highways; GMRS in wide-open
             | country where folks might be overlanding. If you're hanging
             | out in a city and expecting to hear either, I think you're
             | liable to be disappointed.
        
       | davesque wrote:
       | My father is still alive, but, when he passes away, my version of
       | this is that his crystal radios that he liked to build as hobby
       | projects will still be blathering away since they only depend on
       | the power coming straight from the radio waves in the air.
        
       | Pyrodogg wrote:
       | My dad always had a radio tuned to a local country station
       | playing lowly in the garage, 24/7. The thing never turned off.
       | 
       | He passed in 2016, and now the radio plays away situated on a
       | workbench in my brothers garage. It gets turned up when someone
       | is actually working out there, but only turned down and not off
       | when they retire to the house.
       | 
       | As I recall this, I remember it wasn't even just the most recent
       | model. Repairing radios wasn't his thing so eventually they'd get
       | replaced when broken, but I can recall at least two distinct
       | radios over the years so I really think he'd been doing that for
       | quite many years.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | Not sure if it applies to your dad's garage, but "low volume
         | audio source" is sometimes used as a strategy to repel
         | varmints.
         | 
         | It does not work very well in my garage, but nothing does.
        
         | squokko wrote:
         | Not turning it off is one of the reasons it's lasted this long.
         | One of the most common causes of electronics failure is thermal
         | stressing from powering down and up.
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | A fitting tribute. Sort of like Kennedy's eternal flame.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_Eternal_Flam...
        
       | BooneJS wrote:
       | "Our" radio is decidedly more modern, circa early 1970's, but it
       | has played thousands of hours of St. Louis Cardinals games when
       | KMOX 1120 kHz would fade in about 7 PM up here in Western
       | Wisconsin. Every time I consider ripping out the guts to make it
       | a bluetooth streaming speaker, I can't go through with it.
        
         | adql wrote:
         | It might be interesting project to _add_ BT speaker instead of
         | ripping whole thing out. Just put a relay to the speaker that
         | switches to the BT receiver when it is enabled and back to old
         | radio when it is powered down
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | >These days I use it sparingly; I realize that each time it
       | flickers to life could be its last.
       | 
       | I think seeing that they are made of glass, people assume vacuum
       | tubes are delicate in some way. They are not really, this person
       | should use their radio. Tube radios are much easier to fix in
       | general than a transistor radio.
       | 
       | > How does one go about finding ancient tubes nowadays?
       | 
       | The internet! Or if you want the manual touch, a radio rally.
       | Many tubes are still in production albeit sometimes in tricky
       | parts of the world!
       | 
       | > Where are the parents with the know-how to fix such things
       | anymore?
       | 
       | Also the internet! There are several people who could fix the
       | radio on this thread!
        
         | SLWW wrote:
         | I can count the number of ham labs (owned by 40+ men) i've been
         | in on one hand that didn't have a stack of old tubes in their
         | original boxes lining the shelf above an old CW Transmitter.
         | 
         | I've been in a lot of ham labs; they are everywhere but super
         | cool.
        
       | skip_region wrote:
       | Love this article. About once a year, I'll buy an eBay tube radio
       | from someone local. I'll fix it on up since the tubes are usually
       | good and all that needs to be replaced are the sad wax caps.
       | Maybe a little realignment as well since I have it open.
       | 
       | I then give it back to the seller who usually is excited about
       | having it work again. Once in a while I will put the stories on
       | eham.net.
       | 
       | If for any reason the radio breaks, going to send the author an
       | email to offer to fix it for free. All it takes are about $3
       | worth of mouser capacitors in my experience.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | So you run a charity repair service? You buy something from
         | someone, fix it, then give it back to the person you bought it
         | from? That's a very noble hobby.
        
           | skip_region wrote:
           | The latter. I don't really consider it a charity since the
           | people could easily pay for it (plus tube radios are so
           | simple to fix). However, upon receiving it back, they are
           | quick to realize the missing memories they might have given
           | up.
           | 
           | Selfishly I do it to keep up my soldering skills when none of
           | my amateur radio related radios need servicing. Plus putting
           | a little good karma out there never hurt anyone.
        
             | 0ct4via wrote:
             | 73 to you, Sir.
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | And o7 as well :D (although o7 is IRC speak, not ham
               | speak :P)
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | 73?
        
               | tejtm wrote:
               | It is a salutary morse code "prosign" on amateur radio
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosigns_for_Morse_code
               | 
               | edit: I may be overstating that the token is precisely a
               | prosign.
               | 
               | But if so it will be one of the closely related early
               | electrical communication codes.
               | 
               | https://hamradioprep.com/what-does-73-mean/
        
               | jimnotgym wrote:
               | 'Best wishes' but in morse it takes less time to write
               | 73!
        
               | et-al wrote:
               | It's proto-pager code:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_signal
               | 
               | https://www.pagercodes.com/common-pager-codes.html
        
         | draz wrote:
         | This is heartwarming to read. Would you consider recording and
         | uploading videos of the repairs to YouTube?
        
           | skip_region wrote:
           | Here is a video I took a while ago:
           | https://youtu.be/WDuR87r8nWs
           | 
           | Bought it from a person who lived about 20 miles away. He
           | grew up with it in his grandmas house. Bought it, fixed it
           | and returned it back to him.
        
       | seabass-labrax wrote:
       | I have a couple of KX-99 AM two-way radios. On of them (Bendix)
       | receives well, but the other one (Bendix-King) has a strange tone
       | and doesn't seem to pick up any signal. The tone is dependant on
       | the frequency it's monitoring. Maybe this is a by-product of a
       | superheterodyne circuit only present in the newer models? I
       | wonder if any radio-savvy reader will be able to point me in the
       | right direction here :)
        
       | hilbert42 wrote:
       | _" I realize that each time it flickers to life could be its
       | last. How does one go about finding ancient tubes nowadays? Where
       | are the parents with the know-how to fix such things anymore?"_
       | 
       | Fixing it is non-issue. Almost evey part will be available if not
       | a direct replacement then a close substitute. Even new
       | electrolytic capacitors can be made to look like old parts by
       | burying them in the case of the defunct part.
       | 
       | As for tubes, it's almost certain they'll be standard octals
       | (they were commonplace by 1941), and there's any number of them
       | around both new-old stock and secondhand.
        
         | wkdneidbwf wrote:
         | yeah, they're playing up the "can't fix it again" angle for the
         | melancholy feeling.
        
         | bwestergard wrote:
         | Also, wouldn't keeping the tube filament temperature stable
         | maximize longevity? In other words, couldn't leaving it on be
         | better than using it once a day?
        
           | winrid wrote:
           | No. The old caps in there will be overdriving the tubes. It
           | will die pretty quickly.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | Thanks to guitar players, lots of tubes are being manufactured
         | new these days for old amps. There may even be new tube amps
         | being made.
        
           | buescher wrote:
           | Amplifier tubes have only a little overlap, if any, with the
           | tubes you will find in a typical AM radio like the one
           | described. Maybe the rectifier or the output tube.
           | 
           | There is still (!) plenty of old stock of radio and
           | television tubes out there, however.
        
             | hilbert42 wrote:
             | Yeah, see my comment re the 6J8G.
        
           | Kon-Peki wrote:
           | > There may even be new tube amps being made.
           | 
           | There are. I had the resident guitar expert at work pick me
           | out a cheap-but-decent guitar+amp combo for my son, and the
           | amp ended up being a 1-watt tube amp
        
           | janeway wrote:
           | Right, super popular for death metal guitarists, for some
           | reason.
        
             | nicolaslem wrote:
             | Tube amps are really the default type of guitar amp for
             | every genre. I can name hundreds of guitar players famous
             | for playing tube amps, I don't think I can name a single
             | one known to play solid state amps.
        
               | yodsanklai wrote:
               | With digital simulation, things are slowly changing and a
               | lot of players now use digital amps on tour as a matter
               | of convenience, even big names. This has been debated to
               | death on guitar forums, but some would argue that digital
               | is now undistinguishable from the tubes.
        
               | throwaway1004 wrote:
               | >This has been debated to death on guitar forums, but
               | some would argue that digital is now undistinguishable
               | from the tubes.
               | 
               | I find that it's impossible for the average listener to
               | identify the difference in recorded music, especially if
               | there's a lot of distortion in play, but I can entertain
               | the idea that it's a detectable difference.
               | 
               | As someone who moved from solid-state and digital amps to
               | tube amps I find there to be a huge difference in terms
               | of dynamics and response, which massively influences the
               | way I and others play. I can't imagine Jeff Beck or Gary
               | Moore getting the same results with non-tube amps, since
               | their playing relies so much on dynamics and physically
               | feeling and moving air in the room.
               | 
               | edit: for live touring, though, it's so much more
               | efficient to use digital or solid-state options for size,
               | weight and reliability, if it doesn't directly impact the
               | artist's ability to perform
        
               | jimnotgym wrote:
               | I have never used a top line modelling amp, like kemper
               | or whatever...but I immediately play better through my
               | tube amps than lower end digitals (Katana or whatever).
               | It is dynamics as you say. Anyone would prefer to hear me
               | play (as if) through a valve amp (vacuum tubes are called
               | valves in Britain). Valve amps are still the default
               | option for higher end enthusiast amps, although modeling
               | is taking over with pros for convenience
        
               | throwaway1004 wrote:
               | >I don't think I can name a single one known to play
               | solid state amps.
               | 
               | Dimebag Darrell and Buckethead are two names who come to
               | mind, favouring the even response of solid state over the
               | more-dynamic valve amps. If we include pre-amplification
               | such as guitar pedals, solid state is everywhere - a DS1
               | or a Rat gives that even response for big gnarly cold
               | distortions. Then there's the Boss HM pedal which spawned
               | a whole genre of it's own when players used it as a pre-
               | amp for that unique "chainsaw" sound.
               | 
               | So, you're right that most players opt for valves at the
               | amplification stage, but solid state is all over guitar
               | music.
        
           | hilbert42 wrote:
           | Right, but I'm not so sure about superhetrodyne-specific
           | tubes such as pentagrid and triode-heptode converters like
           | the 6J8G (perhaps I'm wrong, I've not followed the matter
           | that carefully lately).
           | 
           | Reckon the demand wouldn't warrant tooling up (and they're
           | messy complex tubes to make).
        
         | zabzonk wrote:
         | one may not need to find ancient valves - my little (65-year
         | old) brother builds valve amplifiers and repairs valve radios
         | as a hobby, and seems to do ok. only problem that as far as i
         | can see, many valves are apparently sourced from russia (i
         | don't know about this definitively).
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | Russians and other ex soviet countries kept manufacturing
           | tubes well after the west stopped. They're often great
           | quality military grade parts, a lot better than the Chinese
           | remakes and fakes one can find at the usual online places.
           | The same applies to germanium transistors and diodes, passive
           | parts etc: excellent quality at very reasonable prices. Those
           | who currently don't want to, or can't, buy from Russian
           | sellers, can find the same items at various shops in western
           | Europe: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Ukraine (some shops still
           | active and worth helping), Romania, Poland, etc.
        
             | hilbert42 wrote:
             | You know, it depends how desperate one gets. I have
             | longtime friend who occasionally repairs ancient B&W TV
             | sets, not from the 1950s but earlier 40s and even late 30s.
             | When he couldn't get new picture tubes he simply invested
             | in vacuum pumps and necessary tube components and snipped
             | the necks off the tubes and rebuilt them--and they worked
             | perfectly OK.
             | 
             | I reckon he was mad to attempt it but I have to eat humble
             | pie because he became so expert at it. And what's more, he
             | did all this in his backyard shed at home!
        
             | zabzonk wrote:
             | yeah, my bro doesn't, AFAIK, buy from russia direct. but
             | even if you buy from UK suppliers, you are still indirectly
             | supporting the russian economy. i haven't brought this up
             | with him - we have enough disagreements about politics as
             | it is.
        
               | SLWW wrote:
               | Well you are maybe placing a few bucks in some English
               | person's pocket where there was already money long gone
               | to the Russian economy, and reminder that most people in
               | Russia don't even support the war so it's not like you
               | are making an impact outside of buying an Englishman tea
               | after he already paid a Russian for his... idk what they
               | prefer to drink over there other than Vodka. :P
               | 
               | Even in Russia, it's mostly a cottage industry, they
               | aren't shipping thousand's monthly and definitely are not
               | funding a war machine from that small investment, it also
               | costs them raw resources when they do eventually
               | manufacture. War has a way of getting funding much
               | greater than from it's exports.
        
         | giantg2 wrote:
         | "and there's any number of them around both new-old stock and
         | secondhand."
         | 
         | I believe there are even a company or two manufacturing new.
        
           | PM_me_your_math wrote:
           | There are about 10 companies that still make vacuum tubes for
           | a variety of products. There is also stock you can find on
           | eBay or at ham radio festivals pretty easily. There are even
           | customers who make crystals for old rigs like the
           | Hallicrafters and Drake lines.
        
         | Apreche wrote:
         | Seriously. The author is smart enough to get their piece
         | published in the LA Times. You would think they know how to
         | search YouTube for "how to repair old radio".
        
           | varelse wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | komadori wrote:
           | I was going to write that expertise in one area doesn't
           | necessarily transfer to competence in another, but then it
           | occurred to me: Perhaps the radio is still running off the
           | same valve that his father installed in 1978 and that is part
           | of the emotional value that it holds for him.
        
             | cratermoon wrote:
             | Radio of Theseus
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | If your father fixed something _for_ you, it could feel
             | like a betrayal of his memory to hire someone to fix it
             | again for you.
             | 
             | Though personally, if I had the deep emotional connection
             | with it, I'd want to _fix it myself_ (almost certainly with
             | assistance from some amateurs who know the radio).
        
               | lozf wrote:
               | Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish :/
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | That will never stop reminding me of the Pterry quote.
        
               | mlyle wrote:
               | You're never going to "teach a man to fish" on how to
               | keep his one, mostly-reliable, tube type radio going. You
               | can teach him to switch tubes, but eventually it's going
               | to get more complicated than that, and you can only get
               | so much experience from a touch of help every few years.
        
               | hilbert42 wrote:
               | Whilst it doesn't happen very often it never ceases to
               | amaze me that some of those old radios will still work
               | after being switched off for about half century.
               | 
               | I've switched them on expecting fireworks--the plates in
               | the 5Y3G/T or 80 rectifiers glowing red hot because the
               | electrolytic caps had shorted to deck--but no they
               | actually still worked.
               | 
               | What's more I've even had some of those ancient wet
               | electrolytic caps (the 1930s-style 8mF/400V types in
               | vertical cans mounted on the chassis) actually work.
               | 
               | Mind you, I certainly don't recommend you do that--do as
               | I say not as I do (I'm rather gung ho about such matters
               | and rather enjoy the fireworks). Be warned, you can not
               | only blow up the rectifiers but also the power
               | transformer and that'll likely be much harder to replace
               | than the tubes.
               | 
               | I recall several years back being so shocked that some of
               | those old wet electros still worked that I pulled the top
               | seals off several and stuck my multimeter in the
               | electrolyte and noticed that essentially there was no
               | voltage between the electrolyte and the case. I even
               | stuck my finger on the Al foil and could feel very little
               | until I pushed hard and then suddenly whammo--ouch. A
               | fascinating exercise, it's an excellent illustration of
               | how good aluminum oxide is as an insulator and
               | dielectric.
               | 
               |  _Please don 't try this unless you are as mad as I am--
               | and even then don't do it!_
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | And therefore have to omit that poetic line?
        
           | hilbert42 wrote:
           | That's rather unfair. Whilst I cut my teeth on old radios
           | like that (which were essentially obsolete when I was a kid),
           | and their operation is second nature to me, I know many
           | electronics people brought up on transistors, ICs and 5-Volt
           | supply rails that wouldn't know where to begin fixing one.
           | For starters, plate voltages upwards of 250V scare the shit
           | out of them.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | An AM-only radio of that period almost certainly uses the "All
         | American Five" set of tubes. All of which are still
         | available.[1]
         | 
         | Note that many of those things are a hot-chassis design. The
         | chassis is directly connected to one side of the power line, so
         | there is a shock hazard. On some units, the shafts of the
         | controls are live.[2]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.tubedepot.com/products/american-5-tube-set
         | 
         | [2] https://geojohn.org/Radios/MyRadios/Safety.html
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-19 23:00 UTC)