[HN Gopher] Meta/Facebook is inviting Fediverse admins under NDA...
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       Meta/Facebook is inviting Fediverse admins under NDA for "meetings"
        
       Author : pierat
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2023-06-18 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mstdn.social)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mstdn.social)
        
       | Triangle9349 wrote:
       | I think they need a self-moderating system aka Project P92 and
       | the entire infrastructure and people are already there. Minimum
       | costs, your rules. Next ads.
       | 
       | perfect timing, people are looking for where to go from reddit
       | and twitter. Mastadon and lemmy are a bit confusing for a newbie,
       | I think Meta will fix that.
       | 
       | Metaverse will not pay for itself.
        
       | waboremo wrote:
       | It seems like the rumor is self-referential. Is there anything
       | more substantial here?
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | With this alternative it would mean that Instagram will be the
       | biggest (Mastodon-compatible) social platform out there. Just
       | like what happened with Gab. Henceforth, centralization wins
       | again [0], even worse with the Mastodon admins going under NDA's
       | with Meta to be corrupted with opaqueness and little to no
       | transparency.
       | 
       | As it stands unsurprisingly:
       | 
       | "Instagram's success on ActivityPub is also Mastodon's nightmare
       | and it tends to more centralization." [0]
       | 
       | So I should be expecting mass instance-level bans and the de-
       | federation of Instagram then?
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012434
        
         | slater wrote:
         | Do you have an alert for anything and everything Mastodon? You
         | seem obsessed with poo-pooing any Mastodon-adjacent news item
         | posted here on HN.
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | Looks like I have a somewhat obsessed fan and a regular
           | reader of my comment history.
           | 
           | Besides that, my entire point still stands and centralization
           | wins once again. A paradoxical situation that Mastodon cannot
           | avoid without UX failures such as _' choosing an instance'_
           | and having a single instance getting large enough risking
           | more centralization and now we have Meta signing NDAs to
           | instance admins to introduce corruption to the fediverse.
        
             | slater wrote:
             | I'm not obsessed, I just like reading stuff about
             | federation. And any time there's a post about Mastodon here
             | on HN, there's a near-100% chance you'll be in there,
             | posting a variation of "told you so!! centralization wins
             | again!!~", and that does not for an interesting discussion
             | make.
        
       | sattoshi wrote:
       | If Fediverse admins accept the NDAs, it would be a shame. You
       | can't run open communities while the top is conspiring.
        
         | dark-star wrote:
         | I would think that at least half of them (probably more)
         | wouldn't say no to a suitcase full of cash....
        
           | EA-3167 wrote:
           | For sure, most people are only as principled as their
           | opportunities allow them to be.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | My guess, is that they know they can't "own" the Fediverse, and
       | their play is more about how to hedge its success and ensure they
       | own a significant revenue stream from it. So my expectation is
       | that they are making an advertising platform play. All the nodes
       | cost a lot to run, and as the Fediverse grows will only get more
       | resource intensive, and more expensive. If Facebook/Meta can
       | build an advertising product that can fund nodes I'm sure there
       | is a significant number that will take that up.
       | 
       | Obviously there will be nodes that push back, I can see nodes de-
       | federating Meta ad supported nodes.
       | 
       | Maybe they will surprise us though and actually try and launch a
       | Twitter like product as part of the Fediverse.
       | 
       | One of the biggest issues they are going to find though is that
       | so many of the influential Fediverse people are so anti Meta, and
       | anti many of the things that they would want to build. Search and
       | caching/reposting of content seems to be a toxic topic on the
       | Fediverse, but something I'm sure Meta would want.
       | 
       | It's going to be exciting watch, will have to get some popcorn.
        
       | lakomen wrote:
       | What did I tell you, Mastodon with Meta censorship. It's coming.
       | Embrace extend exterminate.
        
       | 10g1k wrote:
       | Unless you are the perpetrator of some crime, you just have no
       | reason to ever sign an NDA. Or unless you want the pile of cash
       | they promise you. If there's no clear benefit for you, when
       | someone says signing an NDA is part of the process, the answer is
       | "No".
        
         | throwawayadvsec wrote:
         | This is one of the most stupid things I've ever read.
         | 
         | Ever heard of trade secrets?
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | a battle over this has developed in the web go-go days.
           | Developers were purposefully asked to sign NDA not due to
           | patents, but to control the applicants to rival startups.
           | Meanwhile, certain developers were so valuable that they
           | discovered they could make demands themselves.
        
           | auxym wrote:
           | Or patents and public disclosure.
           | 
           | Ie, if you're in the process of developing patentable
           | technology or writing a patent, anyone to whom you disclose
           | details needs to be under NDA, otherwise your patent may be
           | refused due to prior public disclosure.
           | 
           | Or so is my understanding anyways, I am not a lawyer.
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | There is a clear benefit: you get to hear what they're saying,
         | while without signing the NDA you won't.
         | 
         | On the other hand, there's very little downside to signing an
         | NDA. Sure, it'll prevent you from revealing the information.
         | But without signing the NDA, you don't get access to the
         | information in the first place, and just as unable to reveal
         | the information.
        
         | epicureanideal wrote:
         | I wish we could standardize this as a developer community, but
         | of course there are those who are placed at disadvantage due to
         | their visa status that pretty much have no choice to sign these
         | things, and that sets a pattern that managers expect everyone
         | to comply with..
         | 
         | Is there some way to promote suggested standards in the
         | industry? Maybe if someone like levels.fyi or layoffs.fyi or
         | Blind were to suggest that we all start or stop doing whatever.
        
           | piperswe wrote:
           | Traditionally, unions are used to set standards for
           | employees' relationships with companies.
        
         | 111111IIIIIII wrote:
         | Benefits aren't always clear. How old are you?
        
       | notacoward wrote:
       | My favorite was the one person who said they saw the call and
       | just let it ring. Legend. I know I couldn't have resisted the
       | temptation, if only to find out what kind of pitch it was. I'll
       | bet that's something Mr. Zuckerberg (or more likely his admin)
       | doesn't experience every day.
        
       | NGRhodes wrote:
       | My guess is Meta are trying bribe admins to ensure they federate
       | Project P92.
        
       | dnissley wrote:
       | I'm not sure what Meta or the fediverse has to gain by attempting
       | to get in bed with each other -- a lot of people on the fediverse
       | are extremely anti-big-biz, and extremely anti-meta in
       | particular.
       | 
       | IMO all Meta has to do to succeed here is to create a better
       | managed Twitter. They don't need to get all fancy with it by
       | trying to bolt on fediverse compatibility.
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I work at Meta, but not on IG or Project 92.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | I figure they're making some type of long term
         | embrace/extend/extinguish play against a potential competitor
         | to their twitter plans.
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | - What is IG? If instagram, what relevance does it have to the
         | Fediverse stuff?
         | 
         | - What is Project 92?
         | 
         | - When referring to "what Meta has to do to succeed here", what
         | is here?
         | 
         | - If it's federated Twitter, what makes it "just" in the
         | sentence that "Meta just has to..."?
         | 
         | - if Meta just does Twitter-but-well-run, wouldn't that run
         | counter to federation?
        
           | pierat wrote:
           | That's the point: we just don't know what Facebook/Meta is
           | planning.
           | 
           | However, we DO know that Eugen Rochko signed the NDA with
           | Facebook/Meta from
           | https://433.world/@Yuvalne/110566872225488614 (screen cap of
           | deleted post). Eugen Rochko is the creator of Mastodon.
           | 
           | Text of screen capture:
           | 
           | "screenshot of a partial Mastodon thread from Tusky.
           | 
           | @gargron@mastodon.social: @dansup I think it's important to
           | understand what they're working on and how it fits with what
           | we're doing. Even if an NDA is required, knowing is better
           | than not knowing.
           | 
           | @dansup@mastodon.social: @Gargron Yeah that's a good point,
           | I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt!
           | 
           | The fediverse could really use that type of growth, and it's
           | a good sign that they are willing to have discussions with
           | fediverse stakeholders."
        
             | rvz wrote:
             | So it has been admitted with a very predictable outcome [0]
             | that the main instance (mastodon.social) is now corrupted,
             | compromised and has capitulated into Meta's NDA and will
             | get even more centralized.
             | 
             | This sounds more like Meta used NDAs on the largest
             | instances on Mastodon to not instance-level ban them once
             | they get Instagram on ActivityPub which of course means
             | that Meta is now in control of most of Mastodon already
             | (the ones that have the most users)
             | 
             | So essentially, Meta has captured another social network
             | without trying.
             | 
             | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36012434
        
               | jsnell wrote:
               | What's the mechanism by which an NDA translates to
               | control of Mastodon instances? Because that's totally
               | outside the scope of a normal NDA.
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754304/instagram-meta-
           | tw...
        
           | notacoward wrote:
           | Project 92 is Meta's rumored Twitter-killer, further rumored
           | to be based (in some part at least) on Instagram or the
           | Instagram codebase.
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-18 23:02 UTC)