[HN Gopher] LLMs can label data as well as human annotators, but...
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       LLMs can label data as well as human annotators, but 20 times
       faster
        
       Author : nihit-desai
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2023-06-18 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.refuel.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.refuel.ai)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | poomer wrote:
       | At work we were facing this dilemna. Our team is working on a
       | model to detect fraud/scam messages, in production it needs to
       | label ~500k messages a day at low cost. We wanted to train a
       | basic gbt/BERT model to run locally but we considered using GPT-4
       | as an label source instead of our usual human labelers.
       | 
       | For us human labeling is suprisingly cheap, the main advantage of
       | GPT-4 would be that it would be much faster, since scams are
       | always changing we could general new labels regularly and be
       | continuously retraining our model.
       | 
       | In the end we didn't go down that route, there were several
       | problems:
       | 
       | - GPT-4 accuracy wasn't as good as human labelers. I believe this
       | is because scam messages are intentionally tricky, and require a
       | much more general understanding of the world compared to the
       | datasets used in this article which feature simpler labeling
       | problems. Also, I don't trust that there was no funny business
       | going on in generating the results for this blog, since there is
       | clear conflict of interest with the business that owns it.
       | 
       | - GPT-4 would be consistently fooled by certain types of scams
       | whereas human annotators work off a consensus procedure. This
       | could probably be solved in the future when there's a larger pool
       | of other high-quality LLMs available, and we can pool them for
       | consensus.
       | 
       | - Concern that some PII information gets accidentally sent to
       | OpenAI, of course nobody trusts that those guys will treat our
       | customers data with any level of appropriate ethics.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | Only 20?
        
       | lee101 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | voz_ wrote:
       | If an llm labels it, does that have the same value? Isn't it just
       | fancy regurgitation of knowns?
        
         | nihit-desai wrote:
         | Good question - one followup question there is value for who?
         | If it is to train the LLM that is labeling, then I agree. If it
         | is to train a smaller downstream model (e.g. finetune a
         | pretrained BERT model) then the value is as good as coming from
         | any human annotator and only a function of label quality
        
           | voz_ wrote:
           | Why retrain that smaller model from scratch tho? Just do a
           | little transfer learning, or get creative and see if you can
           | prune down to a smaller model algorithmically instead of
           | doing the whole label and train rigamarole from scratch on
           | what is effectively regurgitation.
           | 
           | I'm not sold this has directional value.
        
             | nihit-desai wrote:
             | Hmm, I'm not suggesting training a smaller model from
             | scratch - in most cases you'd want to finetune a pretrained
             | model (aka, transfer learning) for your specific
             | usecase/problem domain.
             | 
             | The need for labeled data for any kind of training is a
             | constant though :)
        
         | natch wrote:
         | Even humans disagree about labels. Especially humans willing to
         | do this work.
         | 
         | And with the topical depth say ChatGPT4 has, I would think
         | these labels have more value, although just as with humans some
         | validation and verification steps are required.
        
       | orangepurple wrote:
       | This will probably work as long as the material being annotated
       | is similar to the material the LLM was trained on. When it
       | encounters novel data (value) it will likely perform poorly.
        
         | nihit-desai wrote:
         | Partially agree, but it's a continuous value rather than a
         | boolean. We've seen LLM performance largely follow this story:
         | https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1655994367033884672/phot...
         | 
         | From benchmarking, we've been positively surprised by how
         | effective few-shot learning and PEFT are, at closing the domain
         | gap.
         | 
         | "When it encounters novel data (value) it will likely perform
         | poorly" -- is that not true of human annotators too? :)
        
       | morelisp wrote:
       | How was ground truth obtained if not via human annotation?
        
         | nihit-desai wrote:
         | Hi, one of the authors here. Good question! For this
         | benchmarking, we evaluated performance on popular open source
         | text datasets across a few different NLP tasks (details in the
         | report).
         | 
         | For each of these datasets, we specify task guidelines/prompts
         | for the LLM and human annotators, and compare each of their
         | performance against ground truth labels.
        
           | natch wrote:
           | >compare each of their performance against _supposed_ ground
           | truth labels.
           | 
           | Fixed it for you.
        
             | nihit-desai wrote:
             | I mean, sure. For ground truth, we are using the labels
             | that are part of the original dataset: *
             | https://huggingface.co/datasets/banking77 * https://hugging
             | face.co/datasets/lex_glue/viewer/ledgar/train *
             | https://huggingface.co/datasets/squad_v2 ... (exhaustive
             | set of links at the end of the report).
             | 
             | Is there some noise in these labels? Sure! But the relative
             | performance with respect to these is still a valid
             | evaluation
        
           | morelisp wrote:
           | You didn't answer the question at all, although to be fair
           | the answer is both obvious and completely undermines your
           | claim so I can see why you wouldn't.
        
         | natch wrote:
         | Some data is self annotating. You can count occurrences of
         | features in context and then you know with increasing
         | confidence that a feature occurs in a context. You can also
         | build up meaning with more observation of events in context.
         | Sounds circular, but notice no human is required in this
         | process. Sure, in other cases or for other steps humans can be
         | useful, but they aren't always needed for ground truth.
        
       | rossdavidh wrote:
       | AHAHAHAHAHA! There is approximately a 0% chance that the big
       | companies paying for data annotation will be far-sighted enough
       | to avoid LLM-automated labeling of their data, for several
       | reasons:
       | 
       | 1) it will work well, at first, and only become low-quality after
       | they (and their budgets) have become accustomed to paying 1/20th
       | as much for the service
       | 
       | 2) even if they pay for "human" labeling, they will go for the
       | low cost bid, in a far-away country, which will subcontract to an
       | LLM service without telling them
       | 
       | 3) "hey, we should pay more for this input, in order to avoid
       | not-yet-seen quality problems in the future", has practically
       | never won an argument in any large corporation ever. I won't say
       | absolutely 0 times, but pretty close.
       | 
       | Long story short, the use of LLM's by Big Tech may be doomed.
       | Much like how "SEO optimization" turns quickly into clickbait and
       | link farms if there is not high-urgency and high-priority efforts
       | to combat it, LLM's (and other trendy forms of AI that require
       | lots of labeled input) will quickly turn sour and produce even
       | less impressive results than they already do.
       | 
       | The current wave of "AI" hype looks set to succeed about as well
       | as IBM Watson.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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