[HN Gopher] Examples of Post-Growth Practices
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Examples of Post-Growth Practices
Author : laurex
Score : 15 points
Date : 2023-06-18 17:44 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (postgrowthguide.notion.site)
(TXT) w3m dump (postgrowthguide.notion.site)
| wilg wrote:
| My intuition is that if you did a lifecycle analysis of things
| like more modular and repairable phones (or I guess jeans), it
| would be pretty likely that it would be environmentally worse
| because you're using more materials for added interfaces,
| connectors, which adds more weight for shipping and therefore
| fuel, etc. Compared with the amount of people who will actually
| benefit from DIY repairability and modularity.
| redkinght99 wrote:
| We're going to Mars, we're going to conquer the solar system and
| beyond. We're going to have human populations at record levels.
|
| It might be hip / cool to degrowth but as others have pointed
| it's unnecessary and after reading the link, seems more marketing
| than substance.
| Animats wrote:
| The site layout combines PowerPoint with semi-infinite scroll.
| Ouch.
|
| Well, let's start the list.
|
| - BearMade - Makes 25 "natural" backpacks a week. Virtue
| signalling.
|
| - LitePhone - Overpromoted low-end phone. Virtue signalling.
|
| - FairPhone - repairable phone. Expensive. Virtue signalling.
|
| - iFixit - repair manuals. Reasonable enough. Much like Chilton's
| car manuals.
|
| - Swapfiets - bicycle leasing. What's special about that?
|
| - Slow - coffee. 20% lower productivity due to better farming.
| Virtue signaling.
|
| - Open Collective - some kind of fund raising scheme.
|
| - Kaffe Bueno - more coffee, with medical claims.
|
| - Planetary Impact Ventures - funds brewer spent grain recycling
| into human food. Virtue signaling.
|
| - Mud Jeans - leasing of jeans. Virtue signaling?
|
| - Kruse Vask - small family-owned laundry. Routine small
| business.
|
| Not seeing much of interest here.
|
| -
| gjm11 wrote:
| How are you determining what is "virtue signalling" as opposed
| to, say, virtue?
|
| It's not clear to me whether you mean (1) the _companies_ are
| virtue-signalling or (2) the purpose of their products is so
| that their _customers_ can virtue-signal. Maybe 1 in some cases
| and 2 in others?
|
| In any case, I don't quite understand why signalling virtue is
| considered -- as it seems to be -- worse than signalling wealth
| or conformity or nonconformity. I quite like living in a world
| where one of the things people commonly want to advertise is
| virtue, even if sometimes they advertise virtue they don't
| really have or virtue that isn't as valuable as it looks.
|
| (In my more cynical moments I think that calling things "virtue
| signalling" is itself mostly a form of signalling.
| Sophistication-signalling or something of the kind. And like
| other forms of signalling, sometimes the signals are honest and
| sometimes not.)
| imhoguy wrote:
| For post-growth to go mainstream we will need drastic regulations
| and control, think of "Fit for 55"[0] rules but more dystopian.
| Post-growth isn't compatible with capitalism or human greed.
|
| I hardly see it now in the world where people thrive for FI/RE by
| stashing tons of savings on ETFs and expecting them to grow
| forever but not really caring how that growth impacts the society
| and the environment. I don't know any system in history which
| sustainably condoned greed without victims.
|
| To be honest I don't see the way to fix the global "growth"
| problem. I am afraid the nature will be fixing it as usual with
| cataclysms and famines.
|
| [0] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/green-
| deal/fit-f...
| _dain_ wrote:
| [flagged]
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| I guess the whole 'post-growth' thing is supposed to be counter-
| cultural, but I think it underestimates how much of business
| today is bullshit jobs, criminal extortion, monopolies, cartels,
| busywork, rent-seeking and net negative value destruction.
|
| We're literally paying people to do stuff that makes all our
| lives worse. Thats not pro- or anti-growth, it's just stupid.
| runeks wrote:
| I don't understand what they mean when they say "non-
| capitalistic".
|
| > 12b * What's non-capitalistic?
|
| > Its method is regenerative agriculture without using pesticides
| and fossil- based fertilizers while growing plants only - a
| gentle way of farming.
| DarkNova6 wrote:
| What a missed opportunity. Imho Capitalism should be understood
| as "a system where the size of your capital determines the
| actions in society", which is undoubtedly where we are. Some
| financial actors have become so large they can buy a
| significant share of a company and effectively dictate what
| they want them to do. And they don't even need their own money.
| They are using _your_ money.
|
| It is your money inside pension funds, or index funds which
| large financial institutes can use to get more influence
| throughout the economy. And you can thank private equity for
| the hollowing out of the housing market or medical care sector.
| imtringued wrote:
| There is this subreddit called capitalism Vs socialism and
| they can't agree on the definition for capitalism. It's in
| the name. The people with a lot of capital are the ones in
| charge and making the decisions and the general expectation
| is that capitalists only hand over capital for a return.
|
| A post growth economy needs investors who are okay with only
| getting back what they invested and nothing more.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Well, by that definition, the opposite of Capitalism is
| Democracy.
| davidktr wrote:
| Probably "we do not strive for growth in the farm's output".
| However, I'm not sure these people understand how much more
| expensive food would become without pestizides and fertilizers.
|
| Degrowth means literally to be poorer than today. Personally I
| am okay with that, but we should not hide it.
| wilg wrote:
| Degrowth (or post-growth, I guess) is unnecessary and harmful as
| far as I can tell.
|
| https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/people-are-realizing-that-degr...
| seltzered_ wrote:
| The degrowth folks are used to the critiques (
| https://twitter.com/timparrique/status/1430155819404963841/p...
| ) and have responded to Noahpinion's piece:
| https://timotheeparrique.com/a-response-to-noah-smith-is-deg...
| wilg wrote:
| I'm sure are aware of the criticism and have a response, but
| that doesn't tell us whether their response is compelling.
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