[HN Gopher] Finite and Infinite Games (1986) [pdf]
___________________________________________________________________
Finite and Infinite Games (1986) [pdf]
Author : ggr2342
Score : 59 points
Date : 2023-06-18 07:15 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (wtf.tw)
(TXT) w3m dump (wtf.tw)
| tnecniv wrote:
| A related book (really a collection of essays / articles he
| previously wrote) I enjoy reading periodically is Infinite
| Baseball by Noe.
|
| Noe is an analytic philosopher whose work deals largely with the
| nature of perception. He's also a big baseball fan and has
| written quite a few articles for different sites on the
| intersection of the two. The first chapter describes how, in his
| view, baseball is really an infinite game.
|
| Even if you are not a baseball fan, I think the book is an
| interesting read. A lot of his observations are not about the
| sport itself and therefore does not require detailed knowledge of
| the sport. Instead, they are musings on how we engage with the
| sport and what we get out of the sport, and those ideas can be
| generalized to many other activities.
| andersthue wrote:
| Loved this quote from the book
|
| "There is a contradiction here: If the prize for winning finite
| play is life, then the players are not properly alive. They are
| competing for life. Life, then, is not play, but the outcome of
| play. Finite players play to live; they do not live their
| playing. Life is therefore deserved, bestowed, possessed, won. It
| is not lived." that was posted in this blog post recently
| https://www.youngmoney.co/p/infinite-games
|
| For me the difference in what game you choose to play is a result
| of your mindset - are you seeing people you play with in life, or
| do you se objects/ obstacles that you have to win over.
|
| That difference makes a huge difference in your behaviour, a
| person is treated with respect and love - an object is pushed,
| beaten, removed.
|
| So, i ask myself, how would I like to treated, like a person or
| an object?
| erwinh wrote:
| Love this 'self-help' book to reframe where you might need to
| compete for profit or where it can be competitive/play for fun.
|
| But more importantly to interpret the competitive behavior of
| others and identify where its not even necessary to compete at
| all. Because you can choose to play a different level of game
| than those around you. (Hint: its usually people playing too
| small finite win/lose games that you'd like to not engage with
| wherever possible)
| erwinh wrote:
| One more comment as this is a tech website:
|
| 'Meanwhile technologist Kevin Kelly praised it for "alter[ing] my
| thinking about life, the universe, and everything."'
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games
| emmender wrote:
| if there is one thing chatgpt has opened my eyes to, it is that
| we live in a world teeming with BS. In particular, philosophical
| essays and books are full of it.
|
| It seemingly makes sense, because, we contort the narrative to
| squeeze meaning out of it. But a skeptical eye sees no coherence.
|
| For example, this passage:
|
| "We grow, we heal, we are reborn. Nothing is impossible. The
| galaxy is bursting with chaos-driven reactions. You and I are
| storytellers of the world."
|
| Surely, all of us can squeeze meaning out of this passage, but it
| is actually produced by this BS generator:
| https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
|
| If there is anything that should be taught in schools, it is the
| triumph of the reason in the forms of math/science thinking -
| over all the BS narratives that abound - only because, that kind
| of thinking is unnatural, whereas stream of consciousness BS
| comes naturally to us.
| fasterik wrote:
| The "triumph of reason" as you describe it came from
| philosophy. It was the "natural philosophers" who developed the
| style of critical thinking and rationality that resulted in the
| Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution. Of course, there is
| plenty of bad philosophy out there, but that is true for any
| field of knowledge.
|
| Actually, I think philosophy should be taught more in schools.
| Learning to understand, evaluate, and critique complex
| arguments is just as important, if not more important, than
| learning to solve equations or do empirical science.
| photonthug wrote:
| Haven't thought about this book in years. For anyone who might be
| confused- this is not a book about mathematical game theory. :)
| This book was kind of life-changing for me. I probably read it at
| about 13, and around the same time as Zen and the Art of
| Motorcycle Maintenance. But even at the time I was reading it I
| felt a bit conflicted. Almost like it's profound and deep at the
| same time as being full of nonsense. Would love to hear others
| thoughts on it
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| I feel like the rhetoric gets in the way of the content. Carse
| uses antimetabole and chiasmus heavily. I can't emphasize this
| enough.
|
| Most writers will use these rhetorical devices as salt and
| pepper, but Carse seemingly builds the foundation of the book
| on them. I tired of them quickly and they ultimately undermined
| the message he was trying to convey.
|
| Parent, when you mentioned the possibility of it being
| nonsense, I would guess it's due to antimetabole. It has a
| sneaky way of feeling profound yet empty at the same time.
| zwaps wrote:
| I bought it at some point thinking it was about applying Game
| Theory to life. This is not that.
| marshallward wrote:
| What is it about?
| arisbe__ wrote:
| It was _inspired_ by him, a sort of philosophically
| oriented professor of religious history, attending an
| interdisciplinary conference on game theory in which he was
| the token philosopher.
|
| But his book is more about play, novelty, authenticity,
| open-endedness, paradox and "life in general".
|
| It emphases always keeping in mind the nesting of
| competition and cooperation and that one should always
| leave open the possibility to tweak the rules to keep the
| game in play (reminds me of fallibilsm).
|
| I think he was influenced by Nicolas of Cusa's _On Learned
| Ignorance_ hence the title oh another Carse book, _The
| Religious Case Against Belief_ :
|
| > " _Therefore, every inquiry proceeds by means of a
| comparative relation, whether an easy or a difficult one.
| Hence, the infinite, qua infinite, is unknown; for it
| escapes all comparative relation._ " -- Nicholas of Cusa,
| De Docta Ignorantia (On Learned Ignorance)
|
| Also Carse's book has footnotes but no bibliography!
|
| I actually read it through the lens of AGI but that was not
| his intention. Because of that it pairs well with Kenneth
| Stanley and Joel Lehman's _Myth of the Objective_.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-06-18 23:02 UTC)