[HN Gopher] 'The Whiskey Rebellion' Review: A Young Nation, Sudd...
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       'The Whiskey Rebellion' Review: A Young Nation, Suddenly Tested
        
       Author : samclemens
       Score  : 10 points
       Date   : 2023-06-16 17:46 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | https://archive.is/7vR5G
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Could not get to see the article, but checked wikipedia. It could
       | be argued Shay's Renellion caused a change in direction of the
       | early US (1786).
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays%27_Rebellion
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | > Veterans had received little pay during the war and faced
         | added difficulty collecting payments owed to them from the
         | State or the Congress of the Confederation.[14] Some soldiers
         | began to organize protests against these oppressive economic
         | conditions. In 1780, Daniel Shays resigned from the army unpaid
         | and went home to find himself in court for non-payment of
         | debts. He soon realized that he was not alone in his inability
         | to pay his debts and began organizing for debt relief.
         | 
         | Man, veterans got a bad deal from the start. Well, I guess at
         | least US Armed Forces payroll - and any other creditor - gets
         | paid these days.
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | I think it's pretty clear that Shay's Rebellion lead to the
         | rejection of the articles of confederation as a viable federal
         | structuring document.
         | 
         | The Whiskey Rebellion answered a different question, which is
         | "do people think the federal government is sufficiently real
         | that they will form a well regulated militia against other
         | citizens of their own state -- or agree to be part of a militia
         | to go across a state border to enforce federal law in a
         | different state --, or are states more important than the
         | country?".
         | 
         | The answer was "the country is more important", but i've always
         | been pretty sure that the rest of the answer was "... because
         | Washington asked, personally, and if it had been anyone else
         | maybe the answer wouldn't be the same"
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | I'm not a fan of this piece. It boils the grievances down to
       | "they echoed the cries of the independence movement" and then
       | dismisses their problems by saying they had representation.
       | 
       | It completely ignored that people were upset at the regressive
       | nature of the tax, which targeted the poor in a variety of ways.
       | Then, having Washington, one of the richest men in America, show
       | up with an army to stop a protest by the poor is not a great
       | look, even if he did express some reluctance to use force.
       | 
       | This article further praises Washington for making more money
       | producing whiskey. Imagine any recent president starting a
       | business in a field they heavily regulated, including calling the
       | army in against civilians. Why is it fine when Washington did it?
        
         | stereolambda wrote:
         | Just a pointer for people to read up on Federalist and
         | Democratic-Republican ideological differences at the time, even
         | though they are often downplayed, and we also live in an age of
         | thrashing on Jefferson being de rigeur. The US history plays
         | out in constant schizophrenia between belief in sovereignty of
         | the people (including the right to disobey, which actually has
         | some European feudal roots) and belief in republic as a
         | convenient framework for the people being ruled by enlightened
         | gentry. The general outline of this was formed already during
         | the debate on the proposed Constitution.
        
           | yesbut wrote:
           | Its collective amnesia. The "republic" is always around when
           | people get queasy about the revolutionary spirit. The form of
           | representative democracy of the US has always been used as a
           | blunt force weapon against the powerless masses to prevent
           | progress.
        
         | saiya-jin wrote:
         | > Why is it fine when Washington did it?
         | 
         | People generally lack critical thinking, show me public school
         | where this is properly taught (maybe France along with
         | mandatory philosophy?). Thats where proper education for most
         | stops.
         | 
         | Tons of folks want simple reality, black and white, and
         | obviously to be on the good moral side. Any mental gymnastics
         | or complexity is frowned upon.
         | 
         | You can see it in politics everywhere, politicians ie blaming
         | immigrants for many if not all bad stuff happening. In US Trump
         | winning almost twice. In Russia people being spoonfed outright
         | lies but they feel good because they make russians look better
         | and evidently thats all that counts. I can keep naming
         | countries with sinilar issues, the number would be very close
         | to number of existing countries, and probably equal.
        
           | GartzenDeHaes wrote:
           | > folks want simple reality, black and white ...
           | 
           | > In Russia people being spoonfed outright lies but they feel
           | good because they make russians look better and evidently
           | thats all that counts.
           | 
           | You seem to prove your own point. Is Russia really the only
           | source of lies and propaganda in the world?
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | good to question this out loud -- two things though.. As new
         | territory, large new territory, the authority of a "Federal"
         | government was not at all clear to everyone.. lots of pirates
         | and French and slavers and others had their own agendas at that
         | time, right? 2) taxation itself was central to the emergence of
         | an independence movement. Taxation is certainly not popular..
         | so a popular figure in a new government, is shown enforcing the
         | rights to declare taxation.. it is a problematic situation ..
         | even the "right" moves may be publicized in a bad light.. rumor
         | played an important role in distant times.
         | 
         | lastly, some people were not in favor of legal liquor at all..
         | the ruin of lives by liquor was well-known. It is difficult to
         | think of all these things, and the plurality of the actors at
         | the time.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | In particular, these days small farmers (if there are any left)
         | can hedge harvest market risks via futures trading. These
         | wouldn't be invented until the mid-XIX, however, so in those
         | days the farmer's best option for time-shifting crop sales was
         | pretty much conversion from difficult-to-store-or-transport
         | grain to easy-to-store-or-transport alcohol.
        
       | odd_perfect_num wrote:
       | The only time a sitting president has led an army in the field.
        
         | eatonphil wrote:
         | Not disputing that, but Lincoln led reconnaissance before a
         | battle or two in the Civil War.
         | 
         | https://hamptonroadsnavalmuseum.blogspot.com/2018/05/admiral...
        
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