[HN Gopher] 'The Whiskey Rebellion' Review: A Young Nation, Sudd...
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'The Whiskey Rebellion' Review: A Young Nation, Suddenly Tested
Author : samclemens
Score : 10 points
Date : 2023-06-16 17:46 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| https://archive.is/7vR5G
| jmclnx wrote:
| Could not get to see the article, but checked wikipedia. It could
| be argued Shay's Renellion caused a change in direction of the
| early US (1786).
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays%27_Rebellion
| wyldfire wrote:
| > Veterans had received little pay during the war and faced
| added difficulty collecting payments owed to them from the
| State or the Congress of the Confederation.[14] Some soldiers
| began to organize protests against these oppressive economic
| conditions. In 1780, Daniel Shays resigned from the army unpaid
| and went home to find himself in court for non-payment of
| debts. He soon realized that he was not alone in his inability
| to pay his debts and began organizing for debt relief.
|
| Man, veterans got a bad deal from the start. Well, I guess at
| least US Armed Forces payroll - and any other creditor - gets
| paid these days.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| I think it's pretty clear that Shay's Rebellion lead to the
| rejection of the articles of confederation as a viable federal
| structuring document.
|
| The Whiskey Rebellion answered a different question, which is
| "do people think the federal government is sufficiently real
| that they will form a well regulated militia against other
| citizens of their own state -- or agree to be part of a militia
| to go across a state border to enforce federal law in a
| different state --, or are states more important than the
| country?".
|
| The answer was "the country is more important", but i've always
| been pretty sure that the rest of the answer was "... because
| Washington asked, personally, and if it had been anyone else
| maybe the answer wouldn't be the same"
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| I'm not a fan of this piece. It boils the grievances down to
| "they echoed the cries of the independence movement" and then
| dismisses their problems by saying they had representation.
|
| It completely ignored that people were upset at the regressive
| nature of the tax, which targeted the poor in a variety of ways.
| Then, having Washington, one of the richest men in America, show
| up with an army to stop a protest by the poor is not a great
| look, even if he did express some reluctance to use force.
|
| This article further praises Washington for making more money
| producing whiskey. Imagine any recent president starting a
| business in a field they heavily regulated, including calling the
| army in against civilians. Why is it fine when Washington did it?
| stereolambda wrote:
| Just a pointer for people to read up on Federalist and
| Democratic-Republican ideological differences at the time, even
| though they are often downplayed, and we also live in an age of
| thrashing on Jefferson being de rigeur. The US history plays
| out in constant schizophrenia between belief in sovereignty of
| the people (including the right to disobey, which actually has
| some European feudal roots) and belief in republic as a
| convenient framework for the people being ruled by enlightened
| gentry. The general outline of this was formed already during
| the debate on the proposed Constitution.
| yesbut wrote:
| Its collective amnesia. The "republic" is always around when
| people get queasy about the revolutionary spirit. The form of
| representative democracy of the US has always been used as a
| blunt force weapon against the powerless masses to prevent
| progress.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| > Why is it fine when Washington did it?
|
| People generally lack critical thinking, show me public school
| where this is properly taught (maybe France along with
| mandatory philosophy?). Thats where proper education for most
| stops.
|
| Tons of folks want simple reality, black and white, and
| obviously to be on the good moral side. Any mental gymnastics
| or complexity is frowned upon.
|
| You can see it in politics everywhere, politicians ie blaming
| immigrants for many if not all bad stuff happening. In US Trump
| winning almost twice. In Russia people being spoonfed outright
| lies but they feel good because they make russians look better
| and evidently thats all that counts. I can keep naming
| countries with sinilar issues, the number would be very close
| to number of existing countries, and probably equal.
| GartzenDeHaes wrote:
| > folks want simple reality, black and white ...
|
| > In Russia people being spoonfed outright lies but they feel
| good because they make russians look better and evidently
| thats all that counts.
|
| You seem to prove your own point. Is Russia really the only
| source of lies and propaganda in the world?
| mistrial9 wrote:
| good to question this out loud -- two things though.. As new
| territory, large new territory, the authority of a "Federal"
| government was not at all clear to everyone.. lots of pirates
| and French and slavers and others had their own agendas at that
| time, right? 2) taxation itself was central to the emergence of
| an independence movement. Taxation is certainly not popular..
| so a popular figure in a new government, is shown enforcing the
| rights to declare taxation.. it is a problematic situation ..
| even the "right" moves may be publicized in a bad light.. rumor
| played an important role in distant times.
|
| lastly, some people were not in favor of legal liquor at all..
| the ruin of lives by liquor was well-known. It is difficult to
| think of all these things, and the plurality of the actors at
| the time.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| In particular, these days small farmers (if there are any left)
| can hedge harvest market risks via futures trading. These
| wouldn't be invented until the mid-XIX, however, so in those
| days the farmer's best option for time-shifting crop sales was
| pretty much conversion from difficult-to-store-or-transport
| grain to easy-to-store-or-transport alcohol.
| odd_perfect_num wrote:
| The only time a sitting president has led an army in the field.
| eatonphil wrote:
| Not disputing that, but Lincoln led reconnaissance before a
| battle or two in the Civil War.
|
| https://hamptonroadsnavalmuseum.blogspot.com/2018/05/admiral...
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