[HN Gopher] Every Louisiana driver's license holder exposed in c...
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       Every Louisiana driver's license holder exposed in cyberattack
        
       Author : anigbrowl
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2023-06-16 20:09 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | DemiGuru wrote:
       | I strongly recommend that you freeze your credit. It's not the
       | end all be all but it's a good way to keep entities from applying
       | for loans, credit cards or open accounts in your name. I don't
       | know what is the equivalent measure one can take outside of the
       | US.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | briffle wrote:
       | Oregon too:
       | 
       | https://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/2023/06/massive-hack-of...
        
       | costco wrote:
       | Don't states already sell this info to private investigators? I
       | guess this breach would include social security numbers but half
       | the country as already had theirs leaked anyways.
       | 
       | https://www.vice.com/en/article/43kxzq/dmvs-selling-data-pri...
        
       | no_wizard wrote:
       | What should someone do? I can't imagine for many people this
       | isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last time this
       | happens.
       | 
       | Should we just default freeze our credit? Is it time to finally
       | get some ID monitoring service w/ insurance?
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Give up. Assume your driver's license and SSN are compromised.
         | Everyone's either is already or will be soon.
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | I can give up. Since so many third-parties continue to act as
           | if these are "secret" (relying on them for "authentication")
           | giving up does me no good.
           | 
           | I guess I can try to avoid doing business with companies who
           | insist on using these "secrets". Sometimes I don't have a
           | choice, though.
           | 
           | It would be wonderful to have ubiquitous PKI for every
           | citizen in the United States. I don't trust private companies
           | to do it. A large segment of the electorate would never trust
           | the government to do it. (I like the idea of the USPS
           | leveraging their tremendous physical presence and delivery
           | infrastructure to do it, personally, but I think that would
           | meet about the same level of opposition as the government
           | doing it.)
           | 
           | I guess we'll just continue with this ridiculous charade of
           | "secret" numbers, the silly idea of "identity theft", and
           | most of the consequences applying to the individual.
        
           | jen20 wrote:
           | "Giving up" is not really an option until it is illegal with
           | substantial penalties to use these trivially discoverable
           | reference numbers for anything.
        
             | jrm4 wrote:
             | Exactly. In other words, is there anything you can do right
             | now as an individual to protect yourself? Nope, not really.
             | 
             | You'll have to get involved in policy, period.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | midasuni wrote:
           | My UK equivalent (NI number), and usual things like DoB,
           | Address etc leaked a couple of weeks ago thanks to my company
           | outsourcing to layers of companies who seem to have
           | transferred PI by sending to pastebin or something. (Same
           | moveit thing)
           | 
           | My company just cries "it's not our fault" when it clearly
           | is. The larger problem here is that this bit of unchangale
           | data can be used not just to open lines of credit but do
           | things like take student loans out.
           | 
           | Those loans are then automatically deducted from your salary
           | and they won't stop doing that even after you flag it. a
           | private company can steal money from you after they cock up.
        
             | sys_64738 wrote:
             | Aren't National Insurance numbers purely for state pension
             | contributions? I don't think it's like what the USA SSN has
             | been butchered as. When I was at college in the USA the SSN
             | was used as your student ID and the prof printed them on
             | attendance sheets each lecture and passed it around the
             | room.
        
               | davchana wrote:
               | And then many of my employers use or used it as employee
               | number (or last 4), and same passed an attendance sheet
               | with my full name n last 4 of social around.
        
           | no_wizard wrote:
           | I do assume this, but I'm checking with the wider community
           | here, how do you insulate the negative affects?
           | 
           | Monitoring + insurance? We did the freeze, but is that
           | sufficient enough?
           | 
           | Seems like I'm gonna have to get some kind of insurance +
           | monitoring in case something goes really south, no?
        
         | 2023throwawayy wrote:
         | You should have frozen your credit after the breeches of the
         | credit agencies in years past.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | The law needs to be changed so that loans can be unpaid with no
         | penalties if there is no signed and notarized proof it was you.
         | 
         | That'll fix it real fast.
        
           | phpisthebest wrote:
           | 100%...
           | 
           | The entire premise of "identity theft" is backwards. No one
           | stole my identity, no they committed fraud against the bank.
           | 
           | In any other context fraud costs are born by the victim of
           | the fraud, i.e it should be the bank. Only in "identity
           | theft" do we allow a 3rd party of the fraud to be liable for
           | the damages.
           | 
           | I am not sure how that even happened
        
       | StrangeATractor wrote:
       | This is ridiculous and really only happens because the cost of
       | securing your customer (or citizen) data is higher than the cost
       | of losing control of it. If the cost of losing data to hacks was,
       | say three times higher than the cost estimated to secure it, the
       | problem would become much less common very quickly.
       | 
       | As it is, states and corporations externalize the costs of hacks
       | to the victims of their incompetence. They have no reason to take
       | opsec seriously because they aren't held liable in even the most
       | egrigious cases. Data should be a liability.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | For government IT in particular, the cost of security is
         | basically infinite because they aren't organizationally mature
         | enough to do anything right. There's no way to make the cost of
         | being hacked infinite; no court or legislature is going to
         | order the DMV to be disbanded.
        
         | jfengel wrote:
         | The cost benefit calculation also includes the odds of being
         | hacked. Enormous numbers of organizations are at risk but most
         | survive by security by obscurity. Most are content to hope to
         | remain obscure.
         | 
         | Especially since the cost of actual security is very high. You
         | have to build it into every aspect of the system. It makes
         | development cost an order of magnitude more and constrains
         | usability... and you'll still never really be certain
         | 
         | When you take employees into account the cost becomes almost
         | insurmountable. Keeping bank style security means tightly
         | limiting access, making even simple operations more work.
         | 
         | That's not an excuse. That's a warning. We are at grave risk,
         | and we need to completely reconsider how almost every piece of
         | software is written. Competence is hard and expensive.
        
         | nyc_data_geek1 wrote:
         | >> Data should be a liability.
         | 
         | This is the crux of it, methinks. "Data is the new oil" has
         | been a common refrain and as long as the externalities of poor
         | security posture hygiene can be completely outsourced while
         | these companies make mountains of cash by monetizing your every
         | scrap of behavior, attention and information, this will only
         | get worse as every entity seeks to hoard more information on
         | you.
         | 
         | Keeping more data than absolutely necessary for critical
         | business operations should be an existential threat for any
         | entity. Those businesses built on this data ought to take Fort
         | Knox level pains to secure it. Anything short of that and we
         | will continue to exist in a society of deteriorating trust and
         | social contract.
        
           | cco wrote:
           | A framing I often use is, "Data is like holding uranium". It
           | can be incredibly valuable, but also very dangerous. You
           | should be very sure that the data you're holding is worth the
           | cost of safely protecting it (a high cost), and if it is not,
           | get rid of it.
           | 
           | Stripe is a good mental model here, I don't want a person's
           | credit card data, I want to charge them for my product. I
           | love storing a Stripe customer ID, if a hacker were to grab
           | that table, I wouldn't lose (a lot) of sleep, they couldn't
           | do much with it. If that table held credit card data...I
           | would.
           | 
           | That farms out a lot of responsibility to Stripe, but for a
           | side project, I don't have the time necessary to do as good
           | of a job at it relative to Stripe.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ronsor wrote:
           | > "Data is the new oil"
           | 
           | The common usage of this phrase isn't too inaccurate. Keep in
           | mind what oil does to the environment, not just during spills
           | but even in normal refining!
        
       | seanw444 wrote:
       | Thank goodness for the government requiring ID for everything.
       | There wouldn't be anything with life-altering consequences to
       | leak.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Lets hope these States and others that may be keeping these
       | MOVEit breaches hidden issues new Licenses for free.
       | 
       | My State use to use your SSN for its License ID, but they changed
       | moved away from that over 20 years ago. Glad they did. BTW, as
       | noted Oregon too, I am sure there are others.
       | 
       | Glad we are all on Real ID, that sure helped out the Russians a
       | lot. But Real ID did nothing useful for me.
       | 
       | edit: spelling
        
       | buildbot wrote:
       | Something I have not seen mentioned much is Qualys affected by
       | this hack - leaking vulnerability scans on over 19000 companies.
       | 
       | Edit - I was wrong and that happened in 2021 by the same group.
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | Well, even in your "mention" there is no "mention" of your
         | sourcing for this claim. Because they published a write up for
         | the actual vuln, a simple web search does not cough up any such
         | reports
        
           | buildbot wrote:
           | I think I may he conflating an early hack of them, which is
           | my bad: https://www.cybersecurity-insiders.com/major-cyber-
           | attack-on...
           | 
           | There was not date and given it was the same group, I made a
           | bad assumption.
        
             | nyc_data_geek1 wrote:
             | This appears to have originally been reported back in
             | ~march 2021, FYI.
        
       | flangola7 wrote:
       | Will this make fake IDs more viable?
        
       | midasuni wrote:
       | My company used to use move it but got rid of it in 2017 because
       | of security concerns. Allas our crappy outsourced Hr company
       | didn't.
       | 
       | My understanding of this attack is that the company
       | 
       | 1) didn't have IP access controls to limit machines that can talk
       | to the moveit manager
       | 
       | 2) didn't have SSL client certificates to prevent a machine from
       | connecting without a valid certificate
       | 
       | Now a sql injection really isn't good, it's not hard to protect
       | against, both by sanitising inputs and using prepared statements,
       | but that's why we have defence in depth
        
       | selimthegrim wrote:
       | Well that explains why my address was changed to an old out-of-
       | state one at my credit agency and I had to change it back
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-16 23:00 UTC)