[HN Gopher] RIF developer counters Reddit CEO's claims
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RIF developer counters Reddit CEO's claims
Author : fnimick
Score : 127 points
Date : 2023-06-16 19:46 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| pat64 wrote:
| I feel like there should be a revolt not to reinstate the API for
| 3rd parties, but to put Huffman out on his ass.
|
| Dude has handled this situation _so_ poorly that he's no longer
| fit to be CEO of Reddit.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| I am very confused about the name of this particular app. I
| haven't used it. I always thought it was "Reddit is Fun" (RIF).
| Then this week I learned it's actually "RIF is Fun" (RIF). Now in
| this article it's "RIF is Fun for Reddit" (RIFIFFR?)
| presbyterian wrote:
| It was originally Reddit is Fun, but then Reddit asked a bunch
| of app developers to change the names of their apps to make it
| clearer that they aren't official or affiliated with Reddit
| directly, which is why most apps are called "X for Reddit".
| Reddit is Fun was already usually called RIF, so it became a
| recursive acronym. Then I assume they added "for Reddit" for
| search/discover ability reasons
| shoreline12 wrote:
| > I said we are working with everybody who is willing to work
| with us, which includes many of the other third party apps
|
| With that kind of pricing?
| jakelazaroff wrote:
| Is anyone else having flashbacks to the freenode takeover?
| meepmorp wrote:
| spez is the crown prince of reddit
| ParetoOptimal wrote:
| What's freenode?
|
| ;)
| LoganDark wrote:
| They must be referring to some old version of Libera.Chat.
| jmclnx wrote:
| I did not think of this, but yes, seems the same. Will have to
| go looking and see what ended up happening with Freenode.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| What reddit should've done. Created their own ad network, given
| 3rd party apps 50/50 split. Win/Win. Make that add network the
| only one allowed in mobile apps. At first it could just be an ad
| server over other ad networks, until the fill spots with their
| own ads.
| courseofaction wrote:
| If 20m is paid, they'll double it next year. Reddit is just a
| landlord raising rents to unaffordable rates rather than evicting
| tenants.
|
| And they don't produce or moderate content. Rent-seeking
| middlemen.
|
| Fediverse socials are very nice once they're up and running, we
| need better default settings and easier inter-instance
| interaction for less technical users, but I'm optimistic they're
| a vast improvement on a centralized model. If you don't like your
| instance, you can pack up and leave.
| [deleted]
| u10 wrote:
| Barring all of the arguments for or against why reddit is doing
| what it is doing, why does spez keep lying? Like he must realize
| that emails don't disappear and phone calls can be recorded?
| motoxpro wrote:
| Right? He seems like a child. Of all people you would think the
| Reddit CEO would know that once seeming is on the internet it
| never disappears.
| noodleman wrote:
| I think he knows but assumes that people will forget about it
| over time. It's worked for him in the past.
| clnq wrote:
| This is not his first controversy, he has a history with
| twisting facts and trying to manipulate people. Including that
| incident where he edited comments of people criticizing him on
| Reddit. I would guess there is a lot more of this behaviour
| that doesn't surface publicly.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Let's not forget him being the head moderator of r/jailbait
| and several of the other more "problematic" subreddits.
| fnimick wrote:
| Don't forget that Steve Huffman legitimately expects all of
| society to collapse and makes plans to survive it, including
| getting as much money and as many resources as possible. (The
| part where he helps to bring it about doesn't seem to
| register).
|
| https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-...
| dmix wrote:
| https://archive.is/2022.07.03-182824/https://www.newyorker.c.
| ..
| u10 wrote:
| Lol.
|
| When shit hits the fan it's the PT gods that can grab their
| shit and hump it in the boonies who are going to survive, not
| some pencil neck weekend warriors with guns and ammo and a
| motorcycle.
| [deleted]
| hbn wrote:
| I think he's attempting Jobs' reality distortion field, but he
| missed the part where you're not supposed to be raving buffoon
| and tell lies that everyone recognizes as lies.
| meepmorp wrote:
| The reality distortion field worked for Jobs because he was
| weirdly charismatic while being a colossal asshole. spez just
| isn't charismatic.
| star-glider wrote:
| That, and Jobs had incredible design taste and ran a
| company that solved real, complex problems.
|
| "spez" runs a website that hosts a bunch of content
| created, moderated, and shared by other people. It's a
| clone of Digg. The design actually is pretty terrible (old
| reddit was serviceable; new Reddit is a miserable dark-
| pattern-ridden ad-infested mess). Their first-party apps
| suck, and they couldn't even make it themselves; they had
| to buy one and enshitfy it.
|
| From a
| talent/vision/charisma/taste/design/hiring/management
| perspective, the two men aren't really comparable.
| hbn wrote:
| spez/reddit also totally screwed up the PR by not getting
| the first word out about the changes. They privately dumped
| the news on developers who were the ones who had to break
| to their users that these changes were coming and will make
| the apps unable to continue operating.
|
| And it was honestly the only thing they could do. Selig has
| already been over how much of a mess this is causing for
| people who paid in advance for the app's subscription, and
| he no longer can offer that service to them. He couldn't
| just sit quiet and wait for reddit to do the announcement
| themselves, he's got subscribers on the line. What a
| colossal fuck-up from reddit. And spez continues to close
| his eyes and blocked his ears to the idea he might have
| made a mistake in any of this.
| wetpaws wrote:
| [dead]
| pityJuke wrote:
| > Shu also tells me that RIF was paying a "sizable revenue share"
| to Reddit beginning in 2012, which was during Yishan Wong's
| tenure as CEO. Shu says he says initiated the talks with Reddit
| to create the agreement, which allowed for the licensed use of
| Reddit's trademarks. (At the time, the app was called "reddit is
| fun.") Shu says Reddit terminated the agreement in 2016 -- which
| was the year after Huffman took over as CEO.
|
| So, one of the app developers had a pre-existing agreement with
| reddit, to pay them money, well before this mess (yes, for the
| trademark, but still), and spez ripped up the agreement? What on
| earth?
|
| Also, spez, how hard is it to just... you know, not lie? Clearly
| there was a communication line.
| star-glider wrote:
| That last point is, IMHO, the real problem. It's pretty
| reasonable to want to charge for the API, but saying "we just
| want a fair price" and setting a price that's clearly meant
| just to kill them off is dishonest. Just say you're turning off
| API access.
|
| And then there's the lying about Christian (the Apollo guy),
| where Huffman/spez just straight-up lied. We know that because
| Christian posted a call recording.
|
| Now he's lying about the RIF situation.
|
| He goes in and edits _other users' comments_ when he feels like
| it seemingly for no reason.
|
| The takeaway for me at least is that the guy is just a liar,
| and investing a lot of time and energy (either as a
| contributor, developer, or mod) into a company run by a
| flagrantly dishonest bad actor is a bad idea.
| buildbot wrote:
| Yeah that part is really wild - there were making money already
| off a 3rd party app, then decided to NOT take their money in
| 2016, then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what
| the deal was for) for what, 7 years?! How is that not gross
| incompetence? Minority shareholder lawsuit territory?
|
| It's really clear that spez wants terminate any 3rd party
| clients whatsoever, I assume at this point any talk of app devs
| actually working with them is also a lie, as is the moderator
| tools and accessibility tools getting free API access.
|
| Finally, the initial email the RIF received is so egregious -
| IMMEDIATE COMPLIANCE REQUIRED, when they hadn't even changed
| their actual terms yet.
|
| Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! If they had done
| _nothing_ up to this point, I probably would have bought some,
| not that I am anyone of note, but I assume any serious fund
| would steer clear too at this point.
| mcculley wrote:
| > Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?!
|
| The same kinds of investors who did no diligence on FTX. I am
| certain there is dumb money out there.
| pityJuke wrote:
| > then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what the
| deal was for)
|
| I don't think that's true - "Reddit is Fun" rebranded to "rif
| is fun for reddit".
| buildbot wrote:
| Doesn't that still use the trademark reddit?
| pityJuke wrote:
| The standard is that 3rd party apps must be in the
| format: "X for reddit". So, Reddit Sync became Sync for
| reddit, and Reddit News became Relay for reddit.
| buildbot wrote:
| Ah I see, that makes sense I guess
| duskwuff wrote:
| It's generally accepted that using trademarks in this
| sort of descriptive fashion is non-infringing, so long as
| it's necessary to describe the purpose of the product and
| doesn't imply that the product is produced or endorsed by
| the trademark holder.
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