[HN Gopher] Rick Rubin's creative genius
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Rick Rubin's creative genius
Author : andsoitis
Score : 66 points
Date : 2023-06-15 13:38 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.latimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.latimes.com)
| Flatcircle wrote:
| He was sorta the technical producer on the early beastie boys
| records in the sense that he was able to get them recorded.
|
| After that he had the resume to get other jobs which became a
| sort of fly wheel since those later records also became
| legendary.
|
| Now he's practically a life coach and has the awesome recording
| studio in Malibu.
|
| it's a case study in having a great resume.
|
| Hard to argue with a guy who was affiliated with all those great
| records.
| boredumb wrote:
| Why is HN suddenly full of latimes/new
| yorker/nytime/bbc/gizmodo/etc articles? I had an internal bet
| that i'd find an iflscience.com post before the end of the week.
| robg wrote:
| *On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting.
| That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to
| reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that
| gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.*
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| dang wrote:
| Those sorts of articles have always appeared here. Maybe
| there's been a random up-fluctuation - I have no idea, but it's
| expected in any random sequence. If so, it will pass soon
| enough.
|
| Edit: I see acheron already said this
| _Parfait_ wrote:
| Reddit's down my man. Hopefully it doesn't trigger Hackernews'
| eternal September.
| acheron wrote:
| I don't think this is a particularly new thing. It randomly
| comes and goes. Maybe there's a peak now because of the reddit
| BS but I doubt it will last long.
| Solvency wrote:
| Have you noticed the downward trend in topics and discussions
| in the last 2 weeks? And that nearly every day another topic is
| about Reddit/spez? There's your answer.
| the_only_law wrote:
| It's not like this is particularly new, just recently you had
| people complaining about the swath of AI posts,
| cryptocurrency before that and other shit in the past.
| paulcole wrote:
| Yeah I agree. It's frustrating to see HN become less of a tech
| echo chamber. Can't we just get back to blog posts about how
| technical debt is bad and why managers with MBAs are clueless?
| robg wrote:
| I've been on HN since 2007. It has always been general
| interest.
| boredumb wrote:
| This is a forum for a VC tech-incubator.
| paulpauper wrote:
| I wonder how much of this success can be explained by
| survivorship bias? I am sure there are/were plenty of producers
| equally or more brilliant but who never got a chance, couldn't
| sign the Beastie Boys or Run-DMC, or worse timing. it is easier
| to be a legendary producer when you happen to get all the best
| most talented acts ,too. There were so many producers in the
| early 80s hip hop scene.
| robg wrote:
| He was there at the beginning with Run DMC then the Beastie
| Boys, the latter was a punk rock band until he started to push
| them and as a member.
| aschearer wrote:
| There really are talented people in this world. A bitter
| lesson.
| alangibson wrote:
| That doesn't pass the smell test. He's still producing hit
| records. If it was just survivorship bias, certainly we'd be
| talking about him in the past tense given how notoriously
| difficult it is to stay alive and relevant in the entertainment
| industry.
| paulpauper wrote:
| it is easier to produce hits when you already established
| yourself, because then you get the top talent and have more
| money and media attention for subsequent records . they are
| not totally mutually independent events.
| AS37 wrote:
| This brings to mind his advice that is basically 'If you want 10
| good songs, write 30'.
|
| His method remind me of Nail Gaiman: "And I think it's really
| important for a writer to have a compost heap. Everything you
| read, things that you write, the things that you listen to,
| people you encounter-- they can all go on the compost heap. And
| they will rot down. And out of them grow beautiful stories."
|
| (And of course the pottery teacher story.)
| vondur wrote:
| He did Slayer's first three records, Reign in Blood, South of
| Heaven and Seasons in The Abyss. All of them had distinctive drum
| sounds. Most of the early thrash metal records had pretty bad
| recordings, or the drums we hard to define. Not so with these
| records, the drums were very easy to hear in the mix with the
| rest of the heavy guitars.
| jkubicek wrote:
| To me, the weirdest part of Rick Rubin as a producer is that he
| has no distinctive sound. As best I can tell, there's no way to
| listen to an album and know he produced it.
|
| I've watched a lot of interviews with Rick and about Rick, and
| his role seems to be entirely limited to being a muse for
| artists. He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't
| really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio
| while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask
| them how they feel.
|
| To be honest, it would almost be possible to argue that Rick
| Rubin doesn't do anything worthwhile if he didn't have an
| outrageously long and unimpeachable resume to back up his
| contributions.
| bredren wrote:
| I think he is a musician, though he downplays his skill. He
| told Jack White that he played guitar in Beastie Boys first
| album.
|
| https://twitter.com/jetsetter/status/1574188554787655680?s=2...
| friend_and_foe wrote:
| Lack of reverb, especially in drums. He notoriously hated
| reverb.
|
| One of the reasons it's hard to pin him down is because of the
| impact he had. It's like a fish in water or a nation jot
| recognizing it's distinct culture. This man, more than any
| other single man, impacted American popular culture to an
| unimaginable degree. If you grew up in the 90s or 00s, the
| music he produced dominated, set the tone, _was the soundtrack_
| to the American experience.
| rndmnflnce wrote:
| It's kind of crazy. He's basically a filtered and focused
| amplifier for an artist as opposed to typical
| producer/collaborator. he's the ultimate 'PED' for artists!
| meowface wrote:
| Just as one example that he definitely doesn't do literally
| nothing, here's him giving a suggestion that created an iconic
| intro to a very well-known hip-hop song:
| https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203
| taeric wrote:
| This is super frustrating when you see the same in colleagues.
| Specifically, when upper management starts asking why we should
| keep person X around, as they were involved in a ton of
| accomplishments, but don't seem to be the driver for any of
| them.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| He's like a service animal for artists. He figures out what
| they need to feel comfortable and safe, to get into that flow
| state, and keeps them there while they record.
|
| I really love him, he's an American treasure. I am so
| personally grateful for what he did for Johnny Cash.
| bryceneal wrote:
| That is a good point. My understanding is that there are
| different types of producers, and some lean more technical,
| while others lean more consultative, and Rubin is falls in the
| latter camp. Contrast that to other more technical producers
| like Phil Spector, or Dave Fridmann whos productions have a
| very distinctive sound.
|
| My observation is that it seems like his skill is helping the
| artist see their work in a different way, helping them make
| creative decisions, and just generally offering counsel around
| how to make the best possible work. This process doesn't
| manifest in a specific sound, and each production is different
| based on the needs of the artist.
| acheron wrote:
| Yes I've noticed that too. For one example, compare Tom Petty
| doing _Full Moon Fever_ with Jeff Lynne, and then a few years
| later doing _Wildflowers_ with Rick Rubin. Lynne has a sound,
| and it 's all over FMF. Rubin doesn't have anything distinctive
| in the final product of WF, but you read or watch things about
| the recording and he's talking with Petty about it the entire
| time.
| [deleted]
| criddell wrote:
| It seems like he often takes on a passive role but has no
| problem being more active when necessary. The story of how he
| pursued Johnny Cash and introduced him to Nine Inch Nails' Hurt
| is one example.
|
| I'm reading Rubin's book now and I really like it. It's full of
| his observations and advice which includes not listening to
| advice. Very short chapters that are easy to read but I try not
| to read more than one or two a week because I find myself
| thinking about what I read for days.
| robg wrote:
| Or the need to get hip hop understood by the masses through a
| familiar lens - ergo the Toys in the Attic hook into Walk
| this Way with Run DMC who he had to convince those washed up
| rock stars would help them sell more records.
|
| https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-
| dmc-a...
| robg wrote:
| Great example of the technicians and the artists dismissing the
| business development guy understanding users.
|
| https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
| skyyler wrote:
| I remember an interview where people that worked with him (I
| think Jay-Z?) described him as a "reducer" more than a
| "producer" which makes sense to me.
|
| I've heard stories of artists with projects deep into scope
| creep calling Rick Rubin in to help cut through all the chaff.
|
| It would make sense that he doesn't have a particular sound if
| his goal is to help the artist make the best possible art they
| can.
| psychomugs wrote:
| "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
| add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
| danielvaughn wrote:
| If there were a product manager version of Rick Rubin, I
| think they'd be worth their weight in gold.
| skyyler wrote:
| This is an interesting thought.
|
| It seems like in many cultures, bringing someone in to
| cancel unnecessary features would be admitting defeat. At
| least, to the PM.
|
| I wonder why it's okay to do that with a song but not
| software. Weird cultural stuff...
| danielvaughn wrote:
| Reduction is almost magical.
|
| Last year, I was working as a founding engineer for an
| early stage startup. We were working on a pitch deck, and
| I was trying to make it really well designed and
| professional. I'm a former artist so even though I'm not
| strictly speaking a designer, I have enough visual chops
| to make it look pretty.
|
| So anyways, I put _hours and hours_ of effort into this
| pitch deck. When we presented it to our advisors, they
| tore it apart - not because of the visual aesthetics but
| more so because the content itself wasn 't good enough.
|
| I was pretty upset that I had spent all this time making
| it "look nice" and now have to go back and redo a lot of
| the content, so I told myself "just get rid of everything
| that isn't 'design'". That way I could just focus on the
| content itself without having to waste time on the
| visuals.
|
| What happened is that the end result of this process
| genuinely looked way better than before. When I stripped
| the design out, the design came to life.
| brandall10 wrote:
| He stated as much in his recent Lex interview - paraphrasing
| "I get paid for my taste... and besides just saying what I
| like or pointing out what doesn't work, I'm aggressive at
| removing what isn't necessary to get the point across".
| plastic3169 wrote:
| It's all in the book promoted here. I guess he gives artists
| space and permission to be their best selves. Most of the time
| he seems to like removing things rather than adding. But most
| of all he talks about being the "first listener" who is trying
| to figure out what is the essence of the piece and how to bring
| it out.
| b33j0r wrote:
| The book is so interesting that I actually paid full price at
| an airport.
|
| Highly recommended. He even talks about things that never
| occurred to me, like how he tried to coach his artists into a
| flow by making sure they had everything from the start, like
| appropriate shoes!
|
| Wish he'd been my mentor. Read it, if you are a creative, or
| a creative sympathizer!
| indigodaddy wrote:
| It's encouraging to at least hear that they don't 4x the
| price of books in airport shops like they do with water,
| etc..
| danielvaughn wrote:
| I just came across Rick Rubin about a month ago. Had never
| heard of him before. He's one of those people who, upon hearing
| them speak, you just kinda get the sense that they're one of
| the coolest dudes on the planet.
| cocacola1 wrote:
| Wouldn't not having a distinct sound be a good thing? You'd
| want the artist to shine through I'd imagine.
| jkubicek wrote:
| Not necessarily, if I'm listening to an album because of the
| artist then sure, the producer should be transparent and fade
| into the background. If I'm listening to an album because of
| the producer, I probably want to hear them add their
| distinctive touch. Danger Mouse, Madlib and Dan the Automator
| are examples of producers with very strong individual sounds
| and I'll make a point to listen to albums they've produced
| regardless of the artist or genre.
|
| I guess listing hip-hop producers here is a bit unfair, since
| a large reason I listen to any given hip-hop track is
| _because_ of the production, but Danger Mouse has produced
| rock albums that have a definitive Danger Mouse sound.
| rjh29 wrote:
| His ideas are gold. It was his idea for Run DMC to cover Walk
| this Way, for Johnny Cash to cover NiN's "Hurt", for "99
| Problems" to start acapella, and the bridge for "Chop Suey".
| He's not just passively enabling artists, he actively provides
| input as well.
| [deleted]
| fuddle wrote:
| I found the story of how Rick Rubin convinced Johnny Cash to
| cover Hurt by Nine Inch Nails quite interesting.
| https://www.musicradar.com/news/rick-rubin-johnny-cash-hurt-...
| robg wrote:
| Similar cross over with Walk this Way leading to Run DMC's mass
| adoption. Where the guy loves music and knows how to sell it.
|
| https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
| ergonaught wrote:
| I noticed a few years ago that Rick's been involved in so many of
| my favorite albums it is nearly disturbing. I don't know what
| he's after but it's what I want to hear, apparently.
| weinzierl wrote:
| If you like to hear a counter perspective watch the Beastie Boys
| documentary on Netflix. It's not about Rick Rubin primarily of
| course but it paints a much more sober picture of the man.
| takinola wrote:
| For those of us who don't/won't watch the documentary, can you
| please summarize the other perspective?
| weinzierl wrote:
| I'm not sure if I am able to, because it is very ambivalent.
| I think on one hand they looked up to him but on the other
| hand they found him alien. It would be easy to think that
| they admired him in the beginning but later were disgusted
| and felt screwed over, but my interpretation of the
| documentary is that they don't feel like that. It's more like
| they always had and maybe still have mixed feelings.
|
| Just my take away.
| kamranjon wrote:
| Could you give a quick summary of how he is portrayed in the
| documentary?
| weinzierl wrote:
| See my reply to takinola.
| jimt1234 wrote:
| Early rap records were mostly rappers, backed by house-bands
| playing disco music. Rick noticed that these early records didn't
| sound like what was being played in the streets (block parties
| and underground clubs). This bothered Rick, so he set out to
| produce a rap record that matched the sound he heard in the
| streets: "It's Yours" by T La Rock. This record is rarely
| mentioned as a hip hop classic, and it's generally overlooked as
| one of Rick's greatest hits. However, IMHO, the importance of
| "It's Yours" can't be overstated. Most significantly, it
| introduced the world to rap music from the streets, where it all
| began, with a DJ (and a beat), and a rapper on a microphone.
| That's it. No house-band. No made-for-radio, wanna-be disco
| sound. If not for "It's Yours", rap music might have died with
| disco. Hard to believe now, but it's 100% true.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfndwTrDXbo
| jimt1234 wrote:
| I'm kind of a hip hop trivia nerd, and this year is huge for
| guys like me: August 11th is generally regarded at the 50th
| anniversary of the birth of hip hop.
|
| https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/investigation/birt...
| jimt1234 wrote:
| One last thing, another generally unrecognized, but highly
| influential producer in creating what would become the hip
| hop sound was the late Larry Smith. RIP
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Smith_(producer)
| robg wrote:
| Loved this podcast with Rubin and him being asked right up front
| what a music producer does.
|
| https://open.spotify.com/episode/1sMxk3DfydYWasJVZ4Nqy5?si=J...
| hangonhn wrote:
| I loved that episode. The part where he talked about being in
| tears from watching Alpha Go beat humans in Go using a move no
| human has ever considered almost made me cry. It was amazing to
| have someone who's not from our field appreciate the beauty of
| our creations. Rubin is quite an extraordinary person who can
| see the beauty in many things.
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