[HN Gopher] Why does nuclear power plant construction cost so much?
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Why does nuclear power plant construction cost so much?
Author : scythe
Score : 31 points
Date : 2023-06-14 21:52 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (progress.institute)
(TXT) w3m dump (progress.institute)
| arcticbull wrote:
| Listening to Jigar Shah, head of the DOE loans program, indicated
| part of the reason it's so expensive to build NPPs is that each
| nuclear power plant is a bespoke operation and requires a ton of
| custom work, planning and certification, etc. The suggestion he
| made was to create a basic design that you can just copy-paste
| where suitable, allowing you to leverage economics of scale. This
| would seem at least at first glance to align with the
| recommendations in the article.
|
| [1] https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/jigar-shah-on-the-
| does...
| pfdietz wrote:
| The way to build standardized nuclear plants is for the reactor
| maker to build merchant plants, operate them, and sell the
| output into competitive power markets. It's like SpaceX
| building and operating their own vehicles, and how many
| renewable and natural gas power plants work.
|
| It's just that no such merchant nuclear plant has ever been
| built anywhere. There's a serious lack of dog food here.
| fundad wrote:
| I think industry likes it bespoke because the money is
| practically unlimited.
|
| Selling a basic design or a micro reactor means the industry
| would have to compete for the first time.
| barake wrote:
| France has sort of done this - they have 56 reactors in
| operation all based on the same 3 basic designs[1]. It's pretty
| incredible how quickly the plants were designed, tested, and
| built. Over a span of 15 years they brought 56 reactors
| online[2] - in the US we'd be lucky to build and commission a
| single reactor in that time span.
|
| [1] https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/frances-efficiency-
| in-t... [2]
| https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/read...
| Gwypaas wrote:
| Lets add Flamanville 3 to the "experience" graph in the
| article. The only reason it gets pushed through is for France
| to have an industrial base enabling nuclear submarines,
| carriers and weapons.
|
| https://imgur.com/6G2RBa0
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan.
| ..
| hotpotamus wrote:
| I have to imagine that someone has had the idea to create a
| standard design prior to 2023.
| [deleted]
| Georgelemental wrote:
| TLDR: regulation
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| Yup. The cost of failure is too damn high. Nuclear plants,
| despite our best efforts so far, don't have a reputation for
| graceful degradation.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Okay. But no complaints about burning huge amounts of coal
| then.
| dale_glass wrote:
| Plenty complain, and coal is being rapidly paced out.
| dataflow wrote:
| The logic doesn't follow.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| There are plenty of complaints about burning coal. I don't
| think I've seen an article arguing for that, and if I did I
| would imagine people would be very against the idea.
| thinkcontext wrote:
| How could you possibly say there are no complaints about
| coal?
| slicktux wrote:
| Licensing, regulation, inspections and certifications ; all good
| things...but also accidents, technology changing before
| construction is over.
| ignite wrote:
| insurance
| r2vcap wrote:
| Although this article is about nuclear power, in fact it may be
| an issue that applies to all US infrastructure.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29489616
|
| Also, I wonder if the US has accumulated know-how to lower the
| cost of nuclear power plant construction. Korea has continued to
| build nuclear power plants, and it is clear that it has the know-
| how to cut costs.
| Gwypaas wrote:
| Or just uses falsify certifications and use opaque accounting
| methods, all while the regulator sat on double chairs.
|
| > In November 2012 it was discovered that over 5,000 small
| components used in five reactors at Yeonggwang Nuclear Power
| Plant had not been properly certified; eight suppliers had
| faked 60 warranties for the parts. Two reactors were shut down
| for component replacement, which was likely to cause power
| shortages in South Korea during the winter.[25] Reuters
| reported this as South Korea's worst nuclear crisis,
| highlighting a lack of transparency on nuclear safety and the
| dual roles of South Korea's nuclear regulators on supervision
| and promotion.[26] This incident followed the prosecution of
| five senior engineers for the coverup of a serious loss of
| power and cooling incident at Kori Nuclear Power Plant, which
| was subsequently graded at INES level 2.[25][27]
|
| > In 2013, there was a scandal involving the use of counterfeit
| parts in nuclear plants and faked quality assurance
| certificates. In June 2013 Kori 2 and Shin Wolsong 1 were shut
| down, and Kori 1 and Shin Wolsong 2 ordered to remain offline,
| until safety-related control cabling with forged safety
| certificates is replaced.[28] Control cabling in the first
| APR-1400s under construction had to be replaced delaying
| construction by up to a year.[29] In October 2013 about 100
| people were indicted for falsifying safety documents, including
| a former chief executive of Korea Hydro & Nuclear Power and a
| vice-president of Korea Electric Power Corporation.[30]
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_South_Korea#H...
| quijoteuniv wrote:
| I could not place this article about the high cost of regulation
| of nuclear plants, together with the word <<progress>> so here
| some notes on <<progress>> :
|
| 1. Eurocentrism and Colonialism: Historically, the notion of
| progress has often been associated with Western ideals and
| values, ignoring the diverse experiences and contributions of
| non-Western cultures. This Eurocentric perspective perpetuates a
| hierarchical worldview, where Western civilization is considered
| superior and others are deemed "backward" or in need of
| development.
|
| 2. Cultural Relativism: The concept of progress assumes a
| universal standard by which societies are judged, neglecting the
| inherent diversity of human cultures and their distinct paths of
| development. Critics argue that progress should be assessed
| within the context of each society's own values, aspirations, and
| priorities, rather than imposing a singular notion of
| advancement.
|
| 3. Environmental Sustainability: The traditional notion of
| progress has been closely tied to economic growth and material
| consumption, often at the expense of the environment. Critics
| argue that this narrow focus on economic indicators fails to
| account for the long-term ecological consequences and the finite
| nature of Earth's resources.
|
| 4. Social Inequality: The idea of progress has often been used to
| justify social inequalities and perpetuate power imbalances.
| Critics argue that while certain segments of society may
| experience progress, others may be left behind or even
| disadvantaged by the very processes deemed as progressive.
|
| 5. Loss of Traditional Knowledge: The relentless pursuit of
| progress has led to the erosion and marginalization of
| traditional knowledge systems, practices, and cultures. Critics
| argue that this disregard for indigenous wisdom and local
| knowledge can result in the loss of valuable insights and
| sustainable practices.
|
| 6. Human Well-being: Progress is commonly associated with
| material wealth and technological advancements, but critics argue
| that these measures alone do not necessarily translate into
| improved human well-being. Factors such as social cohesion,
| mental health, work-life balance, and access to basic services
| are often overlooked in a purely materialistic understanding of
| progress.
|
| 7. Historical Consequences: The belief in progress as an inherent
| and inevitable force has led to various harmful ideologies and
| actions throughout history, including colonialism, imperialism,
| and social Darwinism. Critics argue that a blind faith in
| progress can obscure the negative consequences of certain
| policies or ideologies, leading to unintended harm.
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| What prompt did you give ChatGPT to generate this?
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| Learning curves:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects#:~:te....
|
| More on the subject:
|
| https://climateer.substack.com/p/learning-curves
|
| https://www.volts.wtf/p/learning-curves-will-lead-to-extreme...
|
| https://www.volts.wtf/p/which-technologies-get-cheaper-over#...
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