[HN Gopher] Brain fog after Covid-19 has similarities to 'chemo ...
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Brain fog after Covid-19 has similarities to 'chemo brain' in
humans and mice
Author : amichail
Score : 128 points
Date : 2023-06-14 17:47 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (med.stanford.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (med.stanford.edu)
| bookofjoe wrote:
| >Could fused neurons explain COVID-19's 'brain fog'?
|
| https://www.science.org/content/article/could-fused-neurons-...
| b800h wrote:
| "In mice"
| dang wrote:
| Inmiced. Thanks!
| 2301421898 wrote:
| Btw, the study looked at _both_ human and mice brains.
| dang wrote:
| Ok, we've put humans in there too. Thanks!
| pieresqi wrote:
| [dead]
| 2301421898 wrote:
| > relied on studies of mice with mild SARS-CoV-2 infection and
| postmortem human brain tissue collected early in the pandemic.
|
| The study looked at _both_ mice and human brains, and observed
| similar effects in both.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| antisthenes wrote:
| I wonder how this compares to damage from impact brain trauma?
|
| And I wonder if there will be some kind of long-term disability
| assistance for people who suffer from these syndromes.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| nah but canada is expanding MAID to cover the homelessness
| you'll end up in due to not being able to work. kinda surprised
| they beat the US to that one but I'm sure we'll catch up.
| hnuser847 wrote:
| The problem with the concept of covid-induced brain fog is that
| the symptoms of brain fog are indistinguishable from general
| anxiety. I'm still not convinced that brain fog is a legitimate,
| medical outcome of having covid, as opposed to a culturally-
| conditioned response that's dependent on one's perception of the
| severity of covid. Anecdotally, among the people I know in real
| life, the only ones that have complained about post-covid brain
| fog are those that already tend to be hypochondriacs or doomers.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Anecdotally, my brother developed long covid, with both
| physical (increased heart rate, increased recovery time from
| simple tasks like walking up stairs) and mental (only
| occasional brain fog). Never had these problems prior to covid.
| He's one of the most level-headed people I know, and is not
| prone to over-reacting to pretty much anything (his wife does
| that for him).
|
| If he says he personally experiences a thing, I'll trust his
| word over an armchair therapist on the internet any day of the
| week.
| Llamamoe wrote:
| I can't distinguish your comment from cognitive impairment
| either, but I do you the favour of assuming you're capable of
| evaluating and describing what's going in your head, and you'd
| do well to do the same for others.
| 2301421898 wrote:
| From the linked article
|
| > those with COVID-19 had greater microglial reactivity than
| those in the control group, in a pattern that matched what was
| found in the mice.
|
| This is evidence that brain fog isn't just "a culturally-
| conditioned response." Rather, we can _physically measure_ an
| impact of covid on the brain.
| lostlogin wrote:
| You don't need to rely on anecdata, there are a ton of studies
| on this. For example:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9685075/
| johnday wrote:
| This is a great point! In order to find out, perhaps we should
| engage some experts at a leading research institution to do
| some wider studies that are able to account for such factors.
| Maybe Stanford could do it?
| [deleted]
| hilbertseries wrote:
| Long covid is very real and is not anxiety. There have been
| studies linking post covid fatigue and conditions to viral
| persistence and micro clotting. This type of post covid is just
| anxiety discourse is incredibly harmful.
| Llamamoe wrote:
| This kind of discourse has been par for the course for as
| long as "mental illness" has existed. I don't know a single
| chronically ill person who hasn't gone through being
| undermined and treated this way.
| nradov wrote:
| Post viral syndrome has been been recognized for decades and
| linked to a wide variety of different viruses. So although
| the exact mechanisms aren't clearly understood there's no
| reason to think that SARS-CoV-2 couldn't cause similar
| effects.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1710789/
|
| But in terms of specific symptoms, a recent study found only
| a weak correlation between confirmed COVID-19 and brain fog.
| Other persistent symptoms such as anosmia are much more
| common.
|
| https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-022-01909-w
| glonq wrote:
| Today that "chemo brain" is a thing.
|
| Unfortunatey, last week I learned that I'm starting chemo in a
| few weeks.
|
| I had hoped to WFH during rads & chemo in a slightly diminished
| capacity. Should I expect _very dimished_?
| mgr86 wrote:
| My father developed a bad rash approximately a year ago that
| won't go away. He also developed his first ever bloodclot. The
| rash could be from the eliquis, but his Dr thinks its from
| chemo. His lung cancer is successfully in remission for now,
| but the stage 4 COPD doesn't care. Anyhow, I learned recently
| that a rash is one of the more common side effects.
|
| Good luck with your treatment.
| bsder wrote:
| Everyone has a different experience. However, chemo just sucks.
|
| My wife went through it all and asked at the beginning: "Should
| I take off work?" To which my response was "You can be
| miserable and bored, or you can be miserable and busy. Your
| choice." Staying busy, at least, gets your mind off of it if
| you can swing it.
|
| On the other hand, my wife sailed through radiation with nary a
| problem while the other folks around her had terrible problems.
|
| Good luck. I hope you fare well.
| tapland wrote:
| Not necessarily but you should be prepared for it.
| joe5150 wrote:
| While you're undergoing cancer treatment, you're going to be
| too fatigued to worry much about your cognitive performance. I
| wouldn't expect to be able to distinguish lower productivity as
| a result of "chemo brain" from lower productivity as a result
| of all the non-cognitive side effects until several weeks after
| your active treatment is done.
|
| Taking off as much time as you're able to rest on and after
| treatment days will go a long way to helping you feel better
| the rest of the time.
| zrail wrote:
| As others have said, it's impossible to say because every
| person and every treatment is different.
|
| I received treatment for testicular cancer in late 2012 through
| early 2013. I tried so hard to WFH during chemo because I
| hadn't been at my job long enough to take FMLA and I needed to
| keep the health insurance to, you know, get the chemo, and I
| couldn't afford both COBRA and rent at the time.
|
| There was no way I could actually concentrate on anything when
| I hurt so much that I couldn't sleep, let alone actually do my
| job. I ended up going so deep into negative PTO that for the
| following two years that I was at that place I was never able
| to take another day off.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| You are going to be so tired, you won't even be able to sleep.
| nick__m wrote:
| You can't know until you start... My wife was driving herself
| to the chemo and she was shopping afterwards. However the nurse
| said that her experience was quite exceptional, peoples are
| usually floored by Taxol. During radiations she was miserable,
| it was like a second degree burn all over her chest.
| astura wrote:
| You won't know - Everyone reacts differently and there's
| different chemos.
|
| I do know someone who had very few side effects from chemo and
| worked full time the entire time at an active job without any
| real issues - logics/scheduling was the biggest problem for
| him.
| MyneOutside wrote:
| It depends. I had Hodgkin's Lymphoma and had chemo for about 5
| months over a year ago. Everyone reacts differently as some
| have various symptoms that can be worse or better than others.
| Some people are miserable in bed while others it not so bad and
| tolerable. It can also vary on the type of chemo treatment you
| are receiving.
|
| Hang in there!
| sparrish wrote:
| I always thought "chemo brain" was just a cop out until my mother
| had her bout with breast cancer.
|
| She was a very opinionated and capable woman. Now she can't carry
| a conversation or remember where she put her socks.
|
| It's been nearly 4 years and she still ain't firing on all
| cylinders.
|
| It killed the cancer but the cognitive cost was great.
| belltaco wrote:
| > I always thought "chemo brain" was just a cop out until my
| mother had her bout with breast cancer
|
| Why would you or anyone think it was a cop out?
| cs02rm0 wrote:
| Sorry to hear that. My mum's had noticeable cognitive decline
| from breast cancer chemo too, physically more frail from it
| too.
|
| Fortunately, sort of, she mostly thinks it's my dad who's lost
| a few marbles and doesn't seem to realise it's her, or at least
| is still too stubborn to admit it. And her grandchildren not
| only still have their grandmother but they don't yet see (or
| understand) the decline which is perhaps the best blessing of
| all. But it's still sad to have to see.
| Mobil1 wrote:
| [flagged]
| nocsi wrote:
| Not to be confused w/ "pregnancy brain" that occurs during and up
| to 1 year after pregnancy in women.
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.4458
| belltaco wrote:
| > Because other viral infections can cause brain inflammation,
| the researchers studied brain changes in mice after mild
| respiratory infection with H1N1 influenza, the viral strain that
| caused the 2009 "swine flu" and 1918 "Spanish flu" pandemics. The
| goal was to compare cognition-linked molecular changes after H1N1
| to those seen after COVID-19. One week after infection, the H1N1
| flu and SARS-CoV-2 infections caused similar patterns of cytokine
| elevation in the central nervous system, microglial reactivity
| and loss of oligodendrocytes in white matter. But seven weeks
| after infection, although the cytokine profiles had some overlap,
| including increased inflammatory chemokine CCL11, they differed.
| Effects on the hippocampus were similar in the two types of
| infections, but microglial reactivity and oligodendrocyte loss in
| white matter were not present after seven weeks following H1N1
| infection.
|
| So it's not just a flu.
| nradov wrote:
| It would be more interesting to compare SARS-CoV-2 with endemic
| common cold coronaviruses. In particular HCoV-OC43 appears to
| be quite similar in terms of genetics and typical symptoms.
|
| https://doi.org/10.1111/1751-7915.13889
| caycep wrote:
| I wonder if parallels to the HSVrelated viral infections and
| association w/ Alzheimer's and other dementias...leaky BBB?
| nick_ wrote:
| Yes it's possible
|
| https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-...
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