[HN Gopher] Cormac McCarthy has died
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cormac McCarthy has died
        
       Author : benbreen
       Score  : 825 points
       Date   : 2023-06-13 20:00 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | arandomsapien wrote:
       | I came across his work far too late and am catching up, having
       | only read The Road Blood Meridian, and No Country for Old Men so
       | far. I've never read an author who can paint such a vivid picture
       | in my mind with so few words. I wasn't much of a fiction reader
       | prior to picking up his work, and it's certainly reignited a love
       | of reading for me.
       | 
       | His books don't resonate with a good number of friends, and I can
       | understand why. But for me it's a strange mix of dark and
       | comforting, with words that make my neurons dance like they're
       | listening to jazz.
        
         | tmountain wrote:
         | The Road is really good and a quick read. I read it in one
         | sitting, and really loved it. Check out Sutree for something
         | completely different but really well rendered. McCarthy is one
         | of my favorite authors. He gave us so many gifts.
        
         | drc500free wrote:
         | The border trilogy (All The Pretty Horses, The Crossing, Cities
         | of the Plain) is understated compared to many of his other
         | books, but gets to something about young men becoming who they
         | are that I haven't found elsewhere.
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | Damn. I immediately got chill bumps reading this. I'm not one to
       | fawn over so-called celebrity deaths, but here, we have lost a
       | philosopher and a thinker who also told great stories. It feels
       | like ideas and perspectives will be lost forever, referring to
       | the ones he never wrote down or spoke about.
       | 
       | I have always been in love with McCarthy's deep philosophy in his
       | writing. I like the following two examples, not for any
       | particular relevance of their content but just for the deepness
       | that they get at.
       | 
       | One is one of the final scenes in the _No Country for Old Men_
       | film adaptation by the Coen brothers, and the dialogue is in the
       | book as well. Sheriff Bell visits his cousin Ellis about feeling
       | overmatched by the violence he 's seen:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdOPJKocMWg
       | 
       | > "What you got ain't nothing new. This country's hard on people.
       | You can't stop what's comin'. It ain't all waiting on you. That's
       | vanity."
       | 
       | The other is one of the final scenes in _The Counselor_ , which
       | is, as far as I know, McCarthy's only screenplay, at least that
       | was actually filmed and released. The Counselor is on the phone
       | begging for some way to get his wife back from the cartel, the
       | Jefe of which explains the impossibility of the request regarding
       | situation he has created:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIn7y4ejIFM
       | 
       | > "It is not for me to tell you what you should have done or not
       | done. The world in which you seek to undo the mistakes that you
       | made is different from the world where the mistakes were made.
       | You are now at the crossing. And you want to choose, but there is
       | no choosing there. There's only accepting. The choosing was done
       | a long time ago. I don't mean to offend you, but reflective men
       | often find themselves at a place removed from the realities of
       | life. In any case, we should all prepare a place where we can
       | accommodate all the tragedies that sooner or later will come to
       | our lives. But this is an economy few people care to practice.
       | ... You continue to deny the reality of the world you're in. You
       | are at that crossing. At the understanding that life is not going
       | to take you back. You are the world you have created. And when
       | you cease to exist, this world that you have created will also
       | cease to exist."
       | 
       | This is pure brutality in the form of prose and dialogue.
        
         | sixstringtheory wrote:
         | I also liked the line from the first: "All the time you spend
         | tryin' ta get back what's been took from ya, more's goin' out
         | the door."
         | 
         | Haven't seen The Counselor before, but that's a tough scene to
         | watch. Definitely on the queue now!
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Oops, it's a bit of a spoiler for sure, but it's probably
           | expected from the beginning. The cast described the
           | screenplay as bizarre. I think the movie could have been
           | better handled, but it has some great writing. It's what you
           | would expect from a novelist like McCarthy writing a
           | screenplay. And it's not a feel-good movie for sure though.
           | The violence is both bleak and full.
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | I just finished The Road last week. It was worth reading.
       | 
       | By sheer coincidence, the e-book version is currently on sale (at
       | least I sure _hope_ it 's coincidental):
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Road-Vintage-International-Cormac-McC...
        
       | secret-noun wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/eWeoO
        
         | neonate wrote:
         | http://web.archive.org/web/20230614005318/https://www.nytime...
        
         | ErikAugust wrote:
         | https://trimread.org/articles/38980
        
       | voisin wrote:
       | Man, this is crushing news. He was uniquely capable of capturing
       | the worst of the human experience in the most beautiful manner.
       | 
       | "Once there were brook trouts in the streams in the mountains.
       | You could see them standing in the amber current where the white
       | edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. They smelled of
       | moss in your hand. Polished and muscular and torsional. On their
       | backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in
       | its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put
       | back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived
       | all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery."
        
       | spaceman_2020 wrote:
       | RIP. One of the modern literary giants. The Road remains one of
       | the most harrowing books I've ever read, and Blood Meridian, the
       | most disturbingly beautiful.
        
       | haroldp wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20230613194612/https://www.nytim...
        
       | ftxbro wrote:
       | > "In "Suttree," for example, one character has carnal relations
       | with the entirety of a farmer's watermelon field."
       | 
       | if you write a novel with something like that then you know what
       | will go in your obituary if you get famous
        
       | tehnub wrote:
       | One of my favorite quotes from Suttree:
       | 
       | He looked at a world of incredible loveliness. Old distaff Celt's
       | blood in some back chamber of his brain moved him to discourse
       | with the birches, with the oaks. A cool green fire kept breaking
       | in the woods and he could hear the footsteps of the dead.
       | Everything had fallen from him. He scarce could tell where his
       | being ended or the world began nor did he care. He lay on his
       | back in the gravel, the earth's core sucking his bones, a
       | moment's giddy vertigo with this illusion of falling outward
       | through blue and windy space, over the offside of the planet,
       | hurtling through the high thin cirrus.
        
       | pastor_bob wrote:
       | I always heard the "Big 4" (white guys) were John Updike,
       | McCarthy, Don DeLillo, and Philip Roth. I think somebody like,
       | the disgraced, Harold Bloom at one point said they were the last
       | 'great', living American Authors.
       | 
       | To my surprise, Don DeLillo is still alive.
        
         | Rant423 wrote:
         | Bloom actually lists Roth, Pynchon, McCarthy, and DeLillo
        
         | peruvian wrote:
         | Bloom considered McCarthy the best living American author and
         | Blood Meridian one of the best American novels, right up there
         | with Moby Dick in terms of importance.
        
         | cgh wrote:
         | Bloom isn't a fan of Pynchon? Not sure how you could exclude
         | him from such a list.
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | Interesting fact about McCarthy: he had a sort of residency, I
       | think pretty recently, despite his fame! as a copyeditor for
       | science papers at the Santa Fe Institute. Here's a thread about a
       | Nature piece with his advice for science writers:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30611829
       | 
       |  _Edit_
       | 
       | Meant to link the HN thread, not the original source.
        
         | unignorant wrote:
         | I spent a summer at the Santa Fe Institute in 2010 and can say
         | that McCarthy certainly spent a lot of time there. I'm not sure
         | he was a copyeditor, exactly, but SFI is a nice place to hang
         | out for any sort of creative work -- beautiful building and
         | landscape, and very open and collaborative atmosphere.
         | 
         | The institute is on the top of a big hill and I'll always
         | remember how he gave me a lift one day as I was walking up.
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | It costs $30 to read that article. Here is a summary from
         | https://kottke.org/19/09/advice-from-cormac-mccarthy-on-writ...
         | 
         | > Use minimalism to achieve clarity. While you are writing, ask
         | yourself: is it possible to preserve my original message
         | without that punctuation mark, that word, that sentence, that
         | paragraph or that section? Remove extra words or commas
         | whenever you can.
         | 
         | > Inject questions and less-formal language to break up tone
         | and maintain a friendly feeling. Colloquial expressions can be
         | good for this, but they shouldn't be too narrowly tied to a
         | region. Similarly, use a personal tone because it can help to
         | engage a reader. Impersonal, passive text doesn't fool anyone
         | into thinking you're being objective: "Earth is the centre of
         | this Solar System" isn't any more objective or factual than "We
         | are at the centre of our Solar System."
         | 
         | > Finally, try to write the best version of your paper: the one
         | that you like. You can't please an anonymous reader, but you
         | should be able to please yourself. Your paper -- you hope -- is
         | for posterity. Remember how you first read the papers that
         | inspired you while you enjoy the process of writing your own.
         | 
         | EDIT: you posted the wrong link, I was trying to help YOU, and
         | the readers of your comment. You removed the original nature
         | link, and then post a condescending reply to me. It's insulting
         | and makes me think less of you and I now deeply regret trying
         | to help.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | The original is on sci-hub under its DOI, of course.
           | 
           |  _Later_
           | 
           | (I wrote "of course" here, as a sort of clumsy
           | acknowledgement that I'm not posting an actual sci-hub link,
           | not as any sort of commentary on the preceding comment ---
           | that comment was appreciated, as I'd originally posted the
           | wrong link, to the paywalled Nature story and not the HN
           | thread. Sorry if it reads any other way!)
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | x86hacker1010 wrote:
       | So I finished reading The Road last night and sufficiently
       | spooked by news of his death.
        
       | the_af wrote:
       | Everyone is praising McCarthy and in particular mentioning how
       | The Road impacted them, so allow me to go against the grain here.
       | 
       | First, I do like downbeat, apocalyptic fiction. I sometimes enjoy
       | reading fiction that evokes anguish or that portrays failures.
       | Kazuo Ishiguro is one of my favorite English language writers.
       | 
       | But... I didn't like "The Road" _at all_. I think I get the
       | point, but to me it was essentially  "apocalypse porn". It was
       | about pointlessly and joylessly describing a dying, hopeless
       | world, but in a way that wasn't interesting to read. I didn't
       | even like how it was written, after a while I started counting
       | how many times McCarthy saw fit to write "the last of [food]".
       | "They ate the last of the biscuits". "They ate the last of the
       | beans". Etc, etc.
       | 
       | I'm sorry but I cannot find better words for this, The Road felt
       | like "hopelessness porn".
       | 
       | I expect people won't agree with me. So be it.
        
         | stubybubs wrote:
         | When did you read it? I think the US went heavy on post-
         | apocalyptic movies and books since the GFC. Maybe there's a bit
         | of "Seinfeld isn't funny" going on?
        
           | sh34r wrote:
           | There are several doomsday movies that predate The Road, were
           | better at the time, and hold up far better today, IMO.
           | Children of Men (2005) would be my top suggestion. The rare
           | movie I've gone back and watched multiple times. You know why
           | it's good? Because the central premise didn't come true
           | (humanity is infertile), but we live in that dystopia now
           | anyway. It's like Black Mirror but for the police state. It
           | didn't go into hyperbole like The Road or The Day After
           | Tomorrow. It was a realistic, slow-motion apocalypse. Going
           | out with a whimper instead of a bang.
           | 
           | However, Children of Men is admittedly not as bleak as The
           | Road, so not a fair comparison. If you really want a film
           | that produces bottomless despair in the viewer, I recommend
           | Threads (1984) instead. It was produced by the BBC on a
           | shoestring budget, and yet it's still a better film. I can't
           | say I recommend it, but if you do watch it, the ending is on
           | par with Requiem for a Dream for being memorable and filled
           | with doom and horror.
           | 
           | The Road just wasn't very good IMO. No Country for Old Men,
           | on the other hand? Same writer, different genre, but
           | excellent.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Not sure. Ten years ago, maybe ?
           | 
           | Mind you, I didn't think it was samey or cliched, I don't
           | remember thinking "there are too many of these already". What
           | I thought was that it was poorly written and uninteresting,
           | and that it seemed like bleakness for its own sake.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | I couldn't get into The Road either and I know others that feel
         | the same. I've always wanted to try a different McCarthy but
         | haven't yet, maybe this will give me the final impetus.
        
           | prawn wrote:
           | You could try Child of God? It's shorter than Blood Meridian
           | and feels a bit less serious and rollicking, even though it's
           | about a necrophiliac.
           | 
           | Suttree and Blood Meridian are the elite tier, IMO.
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | I preferred blood meridian. McCarthy, and especially The Road,
         | is definitely a continuation of the hemingway style, it's not
         | for everyone. I find that the bluntness of the prose can hide
         | some very beautiful insights he has though.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Interesting. I actually like Hemingway! For example, I
           | consider "The Killers" a masterpiece: blunt, short, well-
           | written, the dialogue is mundane but interesting, and nothing
           | heroic happens. I don't know if I could stand a full novel in
           | this style though.
           | 
           | To me, McCarthy in the "The Road" was the boring kind of
           | depressing.
        
         | ali_m wrote:
         | I think there's a beauty in the bleakness. Some of the
         | descriptions are just so vivid, like a charcoal sketch.
         | 
         | > He came forward, holding his belt by one hand. The holes in
         | it marked the progress of his emaciation and the leather at one
         | side had a lacquered look to it where he was used to stropping
         | the blade of his knife. He stepped down into the roadcut and he
         | looked at the gun and he looked at the boy. Eyes collared in
         | cups of grime and deeply sunk. Like an animal inside a skull
         | looking out the eyeholes. He wore a beard that had been cut
         | square across the bottom with shears and he had a tattoo of a
         | bird on his neck done by someone with an illformed notion of
         | their appearance. He was lean, wiry, rachitic. Dressed in a
         | pair of filthy blue coveralls and a black billcap with the logo
         | of some vanished enterprise embroidered across the front of it.
         | 
         | The line about how the "holes in [his belt] marked the progress
         | of his emaciation" is seared into my brain forever.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Well, you know what they say about tastes... I just don't
           | find McCarthy's style compelling, at least not in The Road.
        
         | sinemetu11 wrote:
         | Blood Meridian.
        
         | magpi3 wrote:
         | He never explains what happens, but The Road stuck with me
         | because IMO it depicted how fragile everything we have is and
         | the hellscape we would be inviting if civilization were to
         | collapse.
         | 
         | Since he wrote it this has been done to death by numerous
         | writers (including comic books), but at the time it felt fresh,
         | and I vividly remember wanting to curl into a ball on my bed in
         | horror at some of the depictions in the book, not just because
         | they were horrible, but because I thought: "Yup. That's what
         | would happen alright."
        
         | tosser0001 wrote:
         | I've read a bunch of his books and The Road is the only one I
         | know of that actually ends with a glimmer of hope.
        
         | retinaros wrote:
         | I read all of his books and tbh the road is a minor work of
         | him. a small book that is easy to enter into and tell a story
         | to a lot of people.
         | 
         | blood meridian, sutree, the border trilogy are not that. they
         | are work of art where words are crafted in ways that go beyond
         | the pages. it is really the work of a master like very few
         | writers ever did in history. a small excerpt of blood meridian.
         | with so many little words, ..
         | 
         | << And by and by they came to a place where the road was
         | darkened in a deep wood and in this place the old man killed
         | the traveler. He killed him with a rock and he took his clothes
         | and he took his watch and his money and he buried him in a
         | shallow grave by the side of the road. Then he went home.. The
         | harness maker lived until his son was grown and never did
         | anyone harm again. As he lay dying he called the son to him and
         | told him what he had done. And the son said that he forgave him
         | if it was his to do so and the old man said that it was his to
         | do so and then he died. But the boy was not sorry for he was
         | jealous of the dead man and before he went away he visited that
         | place and cast away the rocks and dug up the bones and
         | scattered them in the forest and then he went away. He went
         | away to the west and he himself became a killer of men. >>
        
       | BMc2020 wrote:
       | Ctrl F Wendigoon.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu6STuj4njw
       | 
       | Wendigoons 5 hour review of _Blood Meridian_.
       | 
       | 3.7M views in 4 weeks.
        
       | krelian wrote:
       | I have never connected with any artist as much as I have with
       | Cormac McCarthy. His writing brings forth feelings and ideas that
       | seem to have always existed inside me but were waiting for his
       | words to take shape.
       | 
       | Throughout his work runs a line of thought that is never
       | explicitly explained or can be easily summarized but some of his
       | sentences and paragraphs nod at it. Here's one of my favorites:
       | 
       | "He thought that in the beauty of the world were hid a secret. He
       | thought that the world's heart beat at some terrible cost and
       | that the world's pain and its beauty moved in a relationship of
       | diverging equity and that in this headlong deficit the blood of
       | multitudes might ultimately be exacted for the vision of a single
       | flower."
        
       | downut wrote:
       | Two short phrases seared into my brain almost 4 decades ago:
       | 
       | "Et en Arcadia ego" and "Ruder forms survive". Different books.
        
         | whiddershins wrote:
         | Suttree
        
       | nielsbot wrote:
       | In Memoriam
       | 
       | "Yelping With Cormac: Ritual Roasters"
       | https://yelpingwithcormac.tumblr.com/post/10442344603/ritual...
       | 
       | Always gives me a chuckle
        
       | candlemas wrote:
       | I think you're supposed to follow the unofficial Hacker News
       | death announcement title format of "[name of person] has died".
       | 
       | https://hn.algolia.com/?q=has+died
        
       | anjanb wrote:
       | Is this McCarthy the one on whom the McCarthy Blvd in Milpitas,
       | CA is named after ?
        
       | cypherpunks01 wrote:
       | "Keep a little fire burning; however small, however hidden."
       | 
       | --Cormac McCarthy, The Road
        
       | bklyn11201 wrote:
       | Read The Border Trilogy first (a coming-of-age story set on the
       | US-Mexico border):                 * All the Pretty Horses
       | * The Crossing       * Cities of the Plain
       | 
       | Then Blood Meridian and No Country for Old Men.
        
         | cgh wrote:
         | Calling the Border Trilogy a coming-of-age story is...one way
         | to look at it for sure, given how it all ends. I love "The
         | Crossing", top three McCarthy for me (the others being "Blood
         | Meridian" of course and "Child of God").
        
           | zls wrote:
           | Blood Meridian is getting all the praise, and that's probably
           | right, but I'd put The Crossing right up there with it. The
           | last scene with the crippled dog conveys so much about the
           | journey Billy has gone through, abba what it's done to him...
           | I don't know if "coming of age" is so apt as "loss of
           | innocence"
        
         | blacksmith_tb wrote:
         | I would second that, and add Suttree towards the end. I
         | personally found The Road a little awkward, it felt
         | unfortunately like an experiment in the SF / post-apocalyptic
         | genre that was less successful than his surreal westerns.
        
           | tmountain wrote:
           | And if you still want more westerns after that, Lonesome Dove
           | and Paradise Sky. Neither are McCarthy, but they're both
           | amazing and will resonate with the same audience.
        
       | cwdegidio wrote:
       | I grew up in Ohio. I moved west the year I turned 30. I always
       | felt like the West never made sense to me. Through his words, I
       | feel like I got some understanding. Fantastic writer and a
       | definite loss to American prose.
        
         | jebarker wrote:
         | What aspects of the West didn't make sense to you?
        
           | cwdegidio wrote:
           | Just my experience with living in Texas, there is a major
           | individual independence vein that runs through a lot of folks
           | here. In NE Ohio, sure... there were those that didn't follow
           | the norms, but for the most part attitudes were very
           | collective.
           | 
           | Texas? Don't tell them what they can do with their land.
           | Don't tell them they need to ditch their truck. Not saying it
           | was a 1:1 illustration in his novels, but it did give me a
           | better insight into how folks west of Austin 'tick'.
        
         | rgrieselhuber wrote:
         | Growing up in Ohio as well, I was fortunate to encounter in
         | high school Ursula Le Guin's short story "Buffalo Gals, Won't
         | You Come Out Tonight" which helped me feel like I understood it
         | better. After spending more time in the West and Southwest,
         | those feelings were confirmed.
        
       | oli5679 wrote:
       | Cormac McCarthy - The Road
       | 
       | "Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. You
       | could see them standing in the amber current where the white
       | edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. They smelled of
       | moss in your hand. Polished and muscular and torsional. On their
       | backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in
       | its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put
       | back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived
       | all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery."
        
         | gabaix wrote:
         | The epilogue of The Road shows its purpose. Make us
         | appreciative of today's nature beauty.
        
       | gbjw wrote:
       | Adding to the list of favourite passages. This is from The Road,
       | when the father holds his son: "No lists of things to be done.
       | The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This
       | is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them
       | to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in
       | grief and ashes. So, he whispered to the sleeping boy. I have
       | you."
        
       | rbtprograms wrote:
       | McCarthy was one of my bigger introductions to what I could call
       | a more "adult" form of literature. He was one of my favorite
       | novelists when I was in my late teens and early 20's, and I
       | believe him to be a master of setting a tone in a novel. Truly
       | will never forget the first time I read Blood Meridian.
        
       | smarri wrote:
       | My favourite author, Blood Meridian was like nothing I ever had
       | read before. Rest in peace.
        
       | austinprete wrote:
       | Since I haven't seen mention of it yet, let me recommend one of
       | his (seemingly) lesser known works: The Sunset Limited.
       | 
       | It's a play of 2 characters and 1 setting, and has an (IMO very
       | good) HBO adaption starring Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee
       | Jones.
       | 
       | Like most of his work, it's an existential contemplation of sorts
       | and perhaps raises more questions than it answers. But I find
       | myself going back to it a lot, maybe as a divining rod for my own
       | meaning to life and death.
       | 
       | RIP, Cormac.
        
       | boredumb wrote:
       | Feel silly but I didn't know what Darker America was. Maybe i'm
       | in the minority but The Road, No Country for Old Men and Blood
       | Meridian seem to be massively more popular so it seems a bit odd
       | for the title to mention what I perceive as a lesser known book.
        
         | ethanbond wrote:
         | I believe that's a descriptor of his works, not a title of one.
        
           | boredumb wrote:
           | Thank you, I just spent 5 minutes trying to find the book
           | anywhere on line and was starting to feel a bit nuts.
        
         | nostromo95 wrote:
         | You might be a non-native speaker, but the title is trying to
         | say his works _evoke_ a darker America rather than that being a
         | work he 's written.
        
           | boredumb wrote:
           | I assumed with Darker being capitalized it was a title.
           | Perhaps the NYTimes editors are no longer native english
           | speakers?
        
             | FemmeAndroid wrote:
             | It's part of the title of the article, which is in
             | titlecase. That's why 'Novelist,' 'is,' and 'dead' are
             | capitalized.
        
             | NotYourLawyer wrote:
             | edit: I'm wrong, disregard.
             | 
             | I mean, they capitalized "is" too. Sloppy work, 0/10.
        
               | rphv wrote:
               | "Is" is a verb, so it should always be capitalized in
               | title case.
        
               | NotYourLawyer wrote:
               | Huh! I've apparently been getting this wrong for _years_.
        
               | throwaway81523 wrote:
               | There are 14 competing standards...
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
        
             | moultano wrote:
             | That's how titles of news articles are typically
             | capitalized. The only lowercase words are those that are
             | grammatical connectors.
        
               | AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
               | This is a culture shock for me because when I studied
               | journalism in Australia I was taught to only capitalise
               | the first letter and proper nouns.
               | 
               | Example from ABC News AU:
               | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-14/missing-
               | australian-hi...
               | 
               | > Brisbane woman Julia-Mary Lane found dead in Canadian
               | wilderness in 'unfortunate hiking accident'
        
         | applepizza wrote:
         | They are referring to his little known novel "Darker America,
         | Is dead at 89"
        
       | thetopher wrote:
       | Here are two lectures about Blood Meridian from a Yale literature
       | course.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/FgyZ4ia25gg
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/7ZFmf4T5L3o
        
         | kamranjon wrote:
         | Thank you for this - after reading Blood Meridian I have been
         | looking for something exactly like this to help me process it.
        
       | AJRF wrote:
       | God I will miss his writing. I finished (and adored) The
       | Passenger a few weeks ago. Rest In Piece.
       | 
       | This is a nice interview;
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrUy1Vn2KdI
        
         | cakemedia wrote:
         | One of my favourite McCarthy quotes is from The Passenger:
         | 
         | "Every remedy for loneliness only postpones it."
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Why not read _Stella Maris_? I 'm reading _The Passenger_ right
         | now, and enjoying it.
        
       | ryanfreeborn wrote:
       | Some of my favorite quotes, from my favorite McCarthy book, Blood
       | Meridian:
       | 
       | War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The
       | ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without
       | my consent.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | In the days to come they would ride up through a country where
       | the rocks would cook the flesh from your hand and where other
       | than rock nothing was. They rode in a narrow enfilade along a
       | trail strewn with the dry round turds of goats and they rode with
       | their faces averted from the rock wall and the bake-oven air
       | which it rebated, the slant black shapes of the mounted men
       | stenciled across the stone with a definition austere and
       | implacable like shapes capable of violating their covenant with
       | the flesh that authored them and continuing autonomous across the
       | naked rock without reference to sun or man or god.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | They rode on and the sun in the east flushed pale streaks of
       | light and then a deeper run of color like blood seeping up in
       | sudden reaches flaring planewise and where the earth drained up
       | into the sky at the edge of creation the top of the sun rose out
       | of nothing like the head of a great red phallus until it cleared
       | the unseen rim and sat squat and pulsing and malevolent behind
       | them. The shadows of the smallest stones lay like pencil lines
       | across the sand and the shapes of the men and their mounts
       | advanced elongate before them like strands of the night from
       | which they'd ridden, like tentacles to bind them to the darkness
       | yet to come.
        
         | everybodyknows wrote:
         | > continuing autonomous across the naked rock without reference
         | to sun or man or god.
         | 
         | It occurs to me now that this echoes a scene late in _Moby
         | Dick_ in which Ahab smashes his sextant to the deck and
         | declares that henceforth he will navigate by dead reckoning
         | alone, without reference to the sun or stars or like works of
         | God.
        
           | ryanfreeborn wrote:
           | Ya McCarthy borrows heavily from Melville and Faulkner, which
           | he readily cops to. Judge Holden and Ahab have a lot in
           | common.
        
             | meigwilym wrote:
             | Do you have any Faulkner recommendations?
        
               | ryanfreeborn wrote:
               | Yes, exactly what huthuthike said. As I Lay Dying. Sound
               | & Fury is great but a much more challenging read.
        
               | huthuthike wrote:
               | My favorite of his is As I Lay Dying. I find it much more
               | readable than The Sound and the Fury. The latter is his
               | most famous, and McCarthy's favorite work by Faulkner.
               | But Faulkner himself said As I Lay Dying was his magnum
               | opus.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | I love that he didn't shy away from prose that almost read as
         | biblical even though he risked drawing comparison to it. The
         | authority and confidence he wrote with.
        
         | rdiddly wrote:
         | Something something Glanton... he was complete at every hour...
         | he would chase the sun to its final endarkenment in the West as
         | if it had been ordained ages since...
         | 
         | That's one of the ones I remember, if you loosen the definition
         | of "remember." I liked it because here's the ostensible leader
         | of a gang of homicidal mo fo's, and not because of that, not
         | despite it, but _possibly quite irrelevantly to it_ , he's just
         | as sure of himself and his "vision" as any other person we
         | would normally think of as a leader.
        
         | jeegsy wrote:
         | Good Lord these quotes. What have I been doing in my life that
         | I've never read this man? The imagery in these passages are so
         | vivid, I reflexively started reading aloud after the first one.
         | I gotta find his books now though with his passing, I suspect
         | many will have the same idea.
        
           | prawn wrote:
           | Go read Blood Meridian. And then struggle to suffer anything
           | else in the world compared against it. It is stunning.
        
           | jaredhallen wrote:
           | I have read a lot of tgese, and still felt compelled to read
           | them aloud. To my 6 and 7 year old children, no less. I did
           | need to skim them first, though. He's not particularly known
           | as being "safe for work" as they say in the Reddit world.
        
         | aksss wrote:
         | > War as always here
         | 
         | Brings to mind Thucydides: "Of the Gods we believe, and of man
         | we know, that by a law of their nature, wherever they can rule
         | they shall. This law was not made by us, and we are not the
         | first to have acted on it. We did but inherit it, and shall
         | bequeath it to all time. And we know that you and all mankind,
         | if you were as strong as we are, would do as we do."
        
         | ali_m wrote:
         | And they are dancing, the board floor slamming under the
         | jackboots and the fiddlers grinning hideously over their canted
         | pieces. Towering over them all is the judge and he is naked
         | dancing, his small feet lively and quick and now in doubletime
         | and bowing to the ladies, huge and pale and hairless, like an
         | enormous infant. He never sleeps, he says. He says he'll never
         | die. He bows to the fiddlers and sashays backwards and throws
         | back his head and laughs deep in his throat and he is a great
         | favorite, the judge. He wafts his hat and the lunar dome of his
         | skull passes palely under the lamps and he swings about and
         | takes possession of one of the fiddles and he pirouettes and
         | makes a pass, two passes, dancing and fiddling at once. His
         | feet are light and nimble. He never sleeps. He says that he
         | will never die. He dances in light and in shadow and he is a
         | great favorite. He never sleeps, the judge. He is dancing,
         | dancing. He says that he will never die.
        
         | Tao3300 wrote:
         | > ...on the inside of his lower arm was there tattooed a number
         | which Toadvine would see in a Chihuahua bathhouse and again
         | when he would cut down the man's torso where it hung skewered
         | by its heels from a treelimb in the wastes of Pimeria Alta in
         | the fall of that year.
         | 
         | Now that's how you introduce a character!
        
           | everybodyknows wrote:
           | Here McCarthy employs again to great effect his device of a
           | narrator that knows and will tell of all physical events past
           | and future. The narrator however does not know, though will
           | speculate upon, thoughts of the characters:
           | 
           | ... with them now rode a boy named Sloat who had been left
           | sick to die in this place by one of the gold trains bound for
           | the coast weeks earlier. ... He rode near the head of the
           | column and he must have counted himself well out of that
           | place but if he gave thanks to any god at all it was ill-
           | timed for the country was not done with him.
        
         | everybodyknows wrote:
         | The Delawares stared into the fire with eyes as black as
         | gunbores.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | ... they watched like the prefiguration of their own ends the
         | carbonized skulls of their enemies incandescing before them
         | bright as blood among the coals.
        
       | an-allen wrote:
       | My favourite CMC quote. The evil of automation.
       | 
       | "You can find meanness in the least of creatures, but when God
       | made man the devil was at his elbow. A creature that can do
       | anything. Make a machine. And a machine to make the machine. And
       | evil that can run itself a thousand years, no need to tend it."
        
       | wageslave99 wrote:
       | I read The Road like 10-15 years ago. It was the first or one of
       | the first books I fully read in English (I'm not a native English
       | speaker). The simplicity of the grammar and lexicon helped me to
       | follow the story, and although the crude environment that happens
       | in the book is daunting and somber, I loved the book.
       | 
       | From that time, when I see some news piece about Cormac McCarthy
       | I cannot thank him enough for doing a masterpiece accesible to
       | ESL speakers.
       | 
       | RIP.
        
       | pizzafeelsright wrote:
       | This knowledge exists without my consent.
        
       | losvedir wrote:
       | Is he worth reading if you don't have a vivid visual imagination?
       | From the glowing praise here I feel like I should finally check
       | him out, but all these comments sharing people's favorite quotes
       | are just falling flat with me. I don't picture things in my head
       | real well, and usually skim over description. I'm generally more
       | captivated by interesting ideas than interesting ways of
       | expressing the ideas.
        
         | mmierz wrote:
         | For what it's worth I have nearly complete aphantasia and I
         | enjoy mccarthy's descriptions very much.
         | 
         | But if the quotes do nothing for you, his stories probably will
         | not either.
        
       | sampa wrote:
       | I liked this too-simple of a quote, that hits hard, when you have
       | read the book.
       | 
       | "When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry.
       | Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf."
        
       | toomanyrichies wrote:
       | As others have mentioned here, John Hillcoat (director of the
       | film adaptation of "The Road") is taking a crack at filming the
       | "unfilmable" "Blood Meridian".
       | 
       | I'm stoked to see how he handles BM, especially who he casts as
       | Judge Holden. I feel like Philip Seymour Hoffman would have been
       | perfect for the role, but I'm confident Hillcoat will find
       | someone equal to the task.
       | 
       | My favorite Judge quote from BM:
       | 
       | "This is an orchestration for an event. For a dance, in fact. The
       | participants will be apprised of their roles at the proper time.
       | For now it is enough that they have arrived. As the dance is the
       | thing with which we are concerned, and contains complete within
       | itself its own arrangement and history and finale, there is no
       | necessity that the dancers contain these things within themselves
       | as well. In any event, the history of all is not the history of
       | each, nor indeed the sum of those histories, and none here can
       | finally comprehend the reason for his presence, for he has no way
       | of knowing even in what the event consists. In fact, were he to
       | know, he might well absent himself, and you can see that that
       | cannot be any part of the plan, if plan there be."
       | 
       | RIP.
        
         | zxexz wrote:
         | A friend of mine has been saying for years now, and I fully
         | agree, that Puddles Pity Party[0] would be perfect casting for
         | Judge Holden. Not just his height and that he's bald. Watch the
         | way he moves, listen to his voice. I can't imagine anyone else
         | playing the role now.
         | 
         | [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=VBmCJEehYtU (Linking his
         | version of Royals, as it's my favorite, but there are are
         | plenty of other wonderful covers and originals)
        
           | kjs3 wrote:
           | Was not expecting a Puddles callout...am very pleased.
        
       | nologic01 wrote:
       | "he fell through sunlight and through shade, turning in that
       | lonely void until he fell from sight into a sink of cold blue
       | space that absolved him forever of memory in the mind of any
       | living thing that was"
        
         | tehnub wrote:
         | This quote is about a donkey or something falling off a cliff
         | IIRC. Lol.
        
       | voisin wrote:
       | Tangential: check out "Yelping with Cormac", a tumblr that I
       | think did a great job of capturing his style with humorous
       | results.
        
       | da39a3ee wrote:
       | Suttree
        
       | david_shaw wrote:
       | I posted a few months ago[1] about _Suttree,_ and was surprised
       | at how many people connected with the book (which I agree is
       | great).
       | 
       | I haven't read _The Road_ or _Blood Meridian,_ but when you
       | consider the different styles and structures of McCarthy 's
       | prose, it's easy to agree that he was a remarkable writer. RIP.
       | 
       | 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34561915
        
       | ageisopolis wrote:
       | One of the greatest authors of the postmodern era if not the
       | greatest. Blood Meridian is that "great american novel" in my
       | mind. RIP
        
       | DubiousPusher wrote:
       | For me, McCarthy is among a few authors ( Sherman Alexie, Edward
       | Abbey, Octavia Butler, etc) who truly broke the Northeastern
       | cultural stranglehold on American literature. His voice is
       | brutally and uncompromisingly continental.
        
       | Wonnk13 wrote:
       | RIP. Blood Meridian deserves a Nobel imho.
       | 
       | "War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The
       | ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner."
        
       | sharadov wrote:
       | RIP McCarthy The Road was a hard book to read - sparing with
       | words but yet very effective at describing the dystopian
       | landscape and the grueling journey that father and son are on. I
       | could not stop thinking about it for weeks after having read it -
       | had a profound effect on me.
        
       | tehnub wrote:
       | I only started reading his books within the last year, but
       | McCarthy quickly became one of my favorite authors. Suttree in
       | particular I think is quite wonderful. I also immensely enjoyed
       | the Passenger and have been thinking about it for months. Allow
       | me to quote some of the late critic Roger Ebert's remarks about
       | him, which had an influence on me to pick up a McCarthy book:
       | 
       | At first when I could not speak, I could not read easily, because
       | sedation had undermined my attention span. I was depressed. I
       | could turn on the TV, but why? My wife brought a wonderful DVD
       | player to my hospital room, but I could not make myself watch
       | movies. My life was stale and profitless. I would spend hours in
       | a murky stupor. Knowing I had always been reading a book, my
       | concerned wife began reading to me: Jane Austen, Charles Dickens.
       | 
       | Curiously, my love of reading finally returned after I picked up
       | Cormac McCarthy's Suttree, a book I had already read not long
       | before my first surgery. Now I read it two more times. I was not
       | "reading the same book." I was reentering the same experience,
       | the same occult and visionary prose, the life of Suttree so
       | urgently evoked. As rarely before, a book became tactile to me.
       | When Suttree on his houseboat pulled a cord and brought up a
       | bottle of orange soda pop from the cool river, I savored it. I
       | could no longer taste. I tasted it more sharply than any soda
       | I've ever really had. When Suttree stopped at the bus station for
       | a grilled cheese, I ate it, and the pickle, and drank the black
       | coffee. I began to live through this desperate man's sad life.
       | https://www.rogerebert.com/roger-ebert/i-think-im-musing-my-...
       | 
       | McCarthy, the heir of Faulkner, who mines the Southwest and
       | Mexico for the way they can break your heart before they kill
       | you. McCarthy is best known for his Border Trilogy, about men,
       | horses, pain and loyalty; All the Pretty Horses was directed by
       | Billy Bob Thornton. McCarthy's best book is said to be Blood
       | Meridian, which Harold Bloom said he hated so much for its
       | violence he threw it across the room twice, and then read it,
       | declared it a masterpiece, and wrote the introduction for the
       | Modern Library edition. My own favorite is Suttree, with its
       | closely-woven mosaic of unusual and unknown words and its
       | heartbreaking story. It's about a man fallen from grace who lives
       | in a houseboat, catches catfish for a living, has hallucinatory
       | alcoholic adventures and episodes of sentiment, pity and loyalty.
       | https://www.rogerebert.com/roger-ebert/coen-country
       | 
       | As McCarthy does with the Judge, the hairless exterminator in his
       | "Blood Meridian", and as in his "Suttree," especially in the
       | scene where [...], the movie demonstrates how pitiful ordinary
       | human feelings are in the face of implacable injustice.
       | https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/no-country-for-old-men-20...
        
       | thx wrote:
       | No Country is one of the best books i've ever read
        
       | Quequau wrote:
       | Cormac McCarthy was an optimist.
        
       | cbfrench wrote:
       | Being a native East Tennessean, I've always had a slight
       | preference for Cormac's Appalachian novels, perhaps in part
       | because the people (at least some of them...) and locations
       | seemed familiar to me. What a loss.
       | 
       | I was pleased to see that the local NBC affiliate had made the
       | announcement of his passing[0] the top story, but I was
       | especially gratified that it describes him as "the author of
       | Suttree, The Road, Child of God and several other novels." It's
       | probably the only obit that will lead the list of novels with
       | Suttree and relegate Blood Meridian to "several other novels,"
       | haha.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.wbir.com/article/news/local/cormac-mccarthy-
       | dies...
        
         | whiddershins wrote:
         | Suttree is a masterpiece.
        
           | kamranjon wrote:
           | It is the best book I have ever read and I didn't think I
           | would feel that way so firmly about a book so late in life. I
           | read it last year and it is unequivocally a masterpiece for
           | me.
        
         | turrican wrote:
         | I wasn't aware he wrote books based in Appalachia! Do you have
         | a recommendation?
        
           | colinflane wrote:
           | Suttree is maybe my favorite of all his novels. If, as others
           | here have suggested, you regard Blood Meridian an epic.
           | Suttree is a picaresque, like reading Pickwick Papers on
           | salvia.
        
           | cbfrench wrote:
           | His first four novels--The Orchard Keeper, Outer Dark, Child
           | of God, and Suttree--are all set in East TN. I'd highly
           | recommend Suttree. It's superb. Child of God is also quite
           | good, especially for a novel about a necrophiliac serial
           | killer. ;)
        
       | thereticent wrote:
       | Rest in peace.
       | 
       | I had a harebrained fantasy of taking a sabbatical to do a
       | visiting fellowship at the Santa Fe Institute while he was there.
       | I figured he would like talking brain-behavioral science and I
       | would like hearing anything he had to say, plus would have gotten
       | to talk with mathematicians and other technical experts with a
       | visionary tinge. I never did it (too early in my career to try),
       | but it was fun to imagine.
       | 
       | My spouse got me his final novel(s), which he had the prescience
       | to announce as such, and I almost started reading them a few days
       | ago. Now I know it will be a memorial read, also content that he
       | assumed it mostly would be.
        
       | dclowd9901 wrote:
       | Aw damn. I figure he'd say "Alright"
        
       | wellthisisgreat wrote:
       | Oh god no. What a sad sad day.
        
       | memling wrote:
       | I read _Stella Maris_ just after reading a bio of Godel and
       | history of the Vienna Circle. Serendipitous to come across it,
       | and would recommend it.
       | 
       | _The Road_...I was warned, but not prepared.
        
         | alangibson wrote:
         | I read The Road a couple of months after my first kid was born.
         | I don't think I ever really mentally recovered.
        
           | cypherpunks01 wrote:
           | I listened to The Road on audiobook while falling asleep,
           | over a week or so. Amazing book, but not a recommended
           | setting! Don't think I've recovered yet either.
        
       | rgrieselhuber wrote:
       | Goin on ahead and fixin to make a fire. RIP.
        
       | kalverra wrote:
       | Well that's a real bummer, one of my top 3 authors, and the only
       | one that was still alive.
        
       | usehackernews wrote:
       | Cormac got me back into reading as an adult.
       | 
       | I read The Road and I was astounded. Still have yet to read
       | another book I've liked as much, but at least he got me reading
       | to find it!
        
       | briga wrote:
       | Wow, The Passenger really was his last. He never compromised, he
       | was true to his creative vision right up until the end. Truly one
       | of the greats
        
         | dieze wrote:
         | Actually Stella Maris was published after The Passenger
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | Not unexpected, and he had a long life well used, but this is
       | still such a loss to the world.
       | 
       | Personally, the Border Trilogy and The Road are among my most
       | favourite novels.
       | 
       | RIP
        
       | ericboggs wrote:
       | I read "The Road" in a single sitting one night while my wife was
       | working a late shift. I laid in bed staring at the ceiling all
       | night.
        
         | celticninja wrote:
         | It's a very good book that I will never read again.
        
           | iaresee wrote:
           | This is exactly how I feel about it. Once was enough. Once
           | and forever haunted.
        
           | tnorthcutt wrote:
           | Same here, I think. I read it before I had a son; I'm not
           | sure I could manage to finish it now that I do.
        
             | B2B_human wrote:
             | I actually just got the book last week after hearing an
             | interview on the radio and the mentioned "the road" and I
             | realized I'd read it in high school.
             | 
             | Now I have a daughter and am also wondering how different
             | it may seem on this reading of the book...
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | All I remember about The Road is that I didn't enjoy it
               | in high school at all. An incredibly bleak walk, is
               | really all I remember.
               | 
               | Maybe I'd appreciate it more now.
        
             | elevaet wrote:
             | Same here but with the movie. I think I want to read the
             | book but not sure if its just too crushing to read as a
             | dad.
        
           | JasserInicide wrote:
           | Yup, pretty much. There was this one passage about the man
           | and the boy hiding and watching some guy. Can't quite
           | remember what was going on, he was like struggling or
           | something, gravely wounded, and then he just dropped dead.
           | The way it read...I felt completely empty and dejected after
           | it and put the book down for a couple days.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | It was, I'm told, a very good book that I noped out of about
           | ten pages in.
           | 
           | I made it that far before becoming incredibly annoyed at the
           | way literature critics were praising his new invention of
           | post-apocalyptic stories which nobody had ever read before
           | ever.
           | 
           | Also, if I remember correctly, he felt that the rules of
           | punctuation didn't apply to him. Maybe that paid off if I'd
           | read more than ten pages.
           | 
           | I don't doubt that he was a true giant. But even setting
           | aside these purely meta-textual gripes, it's just not a story
           | I want to hear. If I want to be depressed and angry, I'll
           | read Hacker News.
        
             | danjoredd wrote:
             | >I don't doubt that he was a true giant. But even setting
             | aside these purely meta-textual gripes, it's just not a
             | story I want to hear. If I want to be depressed and angry,
             | I'll read Hacker News.
             | 
             | I completely understand. For me, I see it as a story about
             | clinging to hope despite impossible odds. The theming
             | reminds me of the manga Berserk, but way more grounded in
             | reality and somehow even more depressing. Spoilers:
             | 
             | The main character is dying, and will leave his son to fend
             | for himself when he does. The son doesn't really stand a
             | chance, but it is his responsibility to teach him to "carry
             | the fire." It ends a bit vague...the father dies and the
             | kid refuses to leave the body.
             | 
             | Eventually a man comes by and offers to take care of him.
             | Whether or not he is actually a good guy, or yet another
             | disgusting person, is not really known. But its a glimmer
             | of hope, and that is what is important to the message. As
             | long as there is hope, carry the fire.
             | 
             | This article by Art of Manliness is what convinced me to
             | read it despite how depressing it is. The book isn't for
             | everyone, but it IS life changing in my opinion:
             | https://www.artofmanliness.com/people/fatherhood/carry-
             | the-f...
        
             | lelandfe wrote:
             | There are many well-respected authors who flout typical
             | grammar. Robert Caro writes sentences as long as whole
             | pages.
        
             | brodouevencode wrote:
             | > the rules of punctuation didn't apply to him
             | 
             | don't ever, ever read Riddley Walker
        
             | karaterobot wrote:
             | Don't blame him for being praised by critics, I don't
             | believe he's the one who claimed to have invented post-
             | apocalyptic fiction.
             | 
             | I get the punctuation issue, but I think his writing is
             | proof that you don't always need to follow the rules from
             | elementary school. He was so meticulous that, even without
             | commas, all his sentences remained clear, and the effect it
             | had was--for most readers anyway--to make the meaning
             | somehow clearer, and certainly more powerful.
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | Honestly, I should have led with the last thing. The real
               | reason I didn't want to read it is that it was violent
               | and unpleasant. There are many people who find value in
               | such things. I'm not among them.
        
             | tehnub wrote:
             | I haven't read it myself, but I've seen many report that it
             | was uplifting to them. Amid the utter horror and hopeless
             | bleakness a parent does everything they can to protect
             | their child.
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > I haven't read it myself, but I've seen many report
               | that it was uplifting to them.
               | 
               | Uplifting? There was nothing uplifting about The Road.
               | It's a world without hope. From the description of the
               | forests, seas, societies and families, cormac builds a
               | truly hopeless apocalypse with no hope for redemption or
               | salvation. A world where hope cannot exist.
               | 
               | > Amid the utter horror and hopeless bleakness a parent
               | does everything they can to protect their child.
               | 
               | A father tries to do everything he can to save his son,
               | but ultimately, he fails. It's a world without hope after
               | all. The father dies and a bunch of cannibals "take in"
               | the boy.
               | 
               | It's one of the rare books that I finished in one sitting
               | and then read again a few days later.
        
               | tehnub wrote:
               | But the love between the father and his son persists to
               | the very end.
               | 
               | Here are some people using the word uplift in their
               | review on Amazon: [0]. There are some negations though
               | ("this book is not uplifting").
               | 
               | [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Vintage-International-
               | Cormac-McC...
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > But the love between the father and his son persists to
               | the very end.
               | 
               | So what? Of course the love between a father and son
               | persists. It's only natural. But that's not the point of
               | the book. The book is about finding hope. The father is
               | desperately trying to save his son. To find hope for his
               | son. He thinks there is hope along the coast. That's why
               | they are on "the road". When they reach the coast, they
               | find a leaden sea holding no life. All marine life is
               | dead. They find no hope. There, cannibals that were
               | hunting the father and son shoot the father with an arrow
               | and the father dies. The son buries his father and the
               | cannibals find the boy and "take him in".
               | 
               | > [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Vintage-International-
               | Cormac-McC...
               | 
               | This is just reviews with the word "uplifting". Many of
               | the comments with "uplifting" is just saying it is not
               | uplifting.
               | 
               | "This is an unusual book. There is nothing uplifting
               | here, so don't expect it."
               | 
               | "As uplifting as a charred word void of virtually all-
               | living species. As uplifting as a dead land shrouded in
               | night, blanketed with ash and gray snow, legions of
               | charcoaled corpses ornamenting the highways and hallways.
               | As uplifting as the vicious gangs who prowl the
               | countryside surviving on the last food source - other
               | humans. As uplifting as the Halocaust, Idi Amin's Uganda,
               | or Pol Pot's Cambodia."
               | 
               | Read the book. There is nothing uplifting about it. The
               | only thing uplifting about it is that we don't live in
               | such a world. It's as hopeless a world as you can
               | possibly create. It's a world where the wife and mother
               | of the protagonists goes off into the woods to kill
               | herself rather than face the horrors that await her and
               | her husband and her son. That's how bleak and hopeless
               | the world is. It's a world where the father carries a gun
               | to take out his son and himself in case the cannibals get
               | them. It's a world where the father fails to keep his
               | promise to his son and dies, leaving him to a pack of
               | cannibals. And that isn't even the worst of it. What
               | exactly is uplifting here?
        
               | danjoredd wrote:
               | What is uplifting is the underlying message. I do not
               | want to write all of it over again, but I wrote my
               | thoughts down here:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36316079#36325708
               | 
               | I have read the book, and it is about sticking to your
               | morals no matter how evil the world will become. That is
               | the message of the book.
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > I have read the book, and it is about sticking to your
               | morals no matter how evil the world will become.
               | 
               | What morals? They stole other peoples stuff. They
               | abandoned the poor people in the basement to die at the
               | hands of the cannibals. They "helped" the guy they met on
               | the road but that was due to childish naivety of the son.
               | It was superficial and meaningless help. The book was
               | entirely about amoral animalistic survival than morality.
               | Notice how it was mostly the son who wanted to be
               | "moral". If anything, the book is saying being moral is
               | childish in an amoral world.
               | 
               | If anything, it showed the inability to stick morals. The
               | most important "moral" of the story was the father's
               | promise to the son and his wife, not to let the son fall
               | into the hands of the cannibals. Throughout the book the
               | father promises to kill them both if it came to that. In
               | the end, the father couldn't bring himself to kill the
               | son and left him to the cannibals who were hunting him.
               | 
               | In your response, you say we don't know whether the "good
               | guys" got him or the "bad guys" did. It's obvious the
               | "bad guys" got him. On your first reading, it isn't
               | clear, but after subsequent readings, it is obvious there
               | are no good guys left and the cannibals who were hunting
               | ( or possibly other cannibals ) them got him.
               | 
               | > That is the message of the book.
               | 
               | If that was the message, the book showed how stupid and
               | pointless it was. Not that it was a good thing. If there
               | was a "message", it was that the mother was right and the
               | father was wrong. But that isn't the message either.
               | 
               | Rather than taking the book for it is, people are trying
               | to find a positive message to make themselves feel
               | better. That's a childish notion. Not everything is a
               | disney movie. Not everything has to have a happy ending
               | or a positive message. You don't have to be uplifted or
               | find morality in a book.
        
               | danjoredd wrote:
               | > It's obvious the "bad guys" got him.
               | 
               | It is not. The man that found the child had a shotgun. He
               | was trying to convince the kid that he had his own wife
               | and child. If he was one of the cannibals, he could have
               | just shot him and got it over with...this is like a six
               | year old we are talking about. Overpowering him,
               | kidnapping him, or just shooting him would be more easy.
               | It doesn't make sense for him to try and convince the kid
               | to join him.
               | 
               | >If anything, the book is saying being moral is childish
               | in an amoral world.
               | 
               | I highly disagree. the man had problems trusting others,
               | for good reason. But the child was a reminder to him WHY
               | it is important to stay good. It ties in with Plato's
               | concept of Eudemonia. Helping others must come with a
               | sense of self-preservation. To save others with abandon
               | is not moral...it is recklessness. On the other side of
               | the coin, having nothing BUT self preservation is
               | cowardess. They represent both sides of the same
               | coin...the boy tugs at the fathers heartstrings to keep
               | him in touch with his morality, and the father has the
               | common sense to keep them alive.
               | 
               | >Rather than taking the book for it is, people are trying
               | to find a positive message to make themselves feel
               | better. That's a childish notion.
               | 
               | Making your interpretation the "one and only
               | interpretation" and dismissing others as "making
               | themselves feel better" is closed minded, myopic, and
               | also childish. While I disagree with your interpretation
               | of the book, I respect it. However the point of art is to
               | attach personal meaning to it. That is not
               | childish...that is human.
               | 
               | Your interpretation is that there is no meaning, and that
               | morality is pointless. Mine is that it is important to do
               | your best in a world that is evil, even if you mess up
               | and don't live up to your own standards sometimes.
               | "carrying the fire" seems like obvious symbolism to me
               | for morality. They don't always carry it...they are
               | sometimes bad themselves. When that happens, the kid gets
               | upset at the dad and there are consequences. The dad
               | develops as a character and decides that giving up and
               | killing them both is the wrong thing to do. Is he right?
               | Honestly probably not. But that is the thing about
               | morality, it is not always black and white.
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | >It is not.
               | 
               | I think it is. I gave my reasons in another comment.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36326924
               | 
               | > If he was one of the cannibals, he could have just shot
               | him and got it over with
               | 
               | In the book, the cannibals like to keep their "herd"
               | alive in the basement. Remember? Why did they keep their
               | humans alive?
               | 
               | > Overpowering him, kidnapping him, or just shooting him
               | would be more easy.
               | 
               | No. It would be easier to convince him to follow them
               | willingly. Would you rather drag a corpse 10 miles or
               | have the the corpse follow you 10 miles. I can't tell if
               | you are trolling or not? Throughout book, exhaustion and
               | the physical toll play a prominent role - of just pushing
               | a cart, father carrying the boy, etc.
               | 
               | It's getting exhausting repeating the obvious. The
               | conclusion of the book is the father dead and the
               | orphaned boy ending up with cannibals. Exactly what they
               | wanted to avoid and breaking the promise that the father
               | made to his wife. If that is uplifting to you and you
               | find moral value in that fine. I guess if you keep
               | looking for something, you'll eventually find it. Even if
               | it is not there.
        
               | danjoredd wrote:
               | My problem with your reasoning is that it relies on a
               | literal interpretation of the words spoken in the book.
               | The father says that "there are no other kids his age",
               | yes, but remember...most of the book is told through the
               | father's eyes. He doesn't know any more than we do. There
               | is no information technology anymore...all he knows is
               | that he has not seen any kids and that he hasn't heard of
               | any kids. He is an unreliable narrator.
               | 
               | >No. It would be easier to convince him to follow them
               | willingly. Would you rather drag a corpse 10 miles or
               | have the the corpse follow you 10 miles. I can't tell if
               | you are trolling or not?
               | 
               | I am not trolling. Have you ever picked up a six year
               | old? They weigh practically nothing. The cannibals are
               | not shown to be as exhausted or weak as the father so it
               | would not be as much of a problem. Perhaps if he gets off
               | to the idea of betrayal, or if he really does think that
               | having a kid follow him for 10 miles would be easier
               | convincing him would be easier, but I have a hard time
               | believing that.
               | 
               | >I guess if you keep looking for something, you'll
               | eventually find it. Even if it is not there.
               | 
               | I could say the same thing about your interpretation of
               | events. I do wish you would be more open minded and less
               | cynical...the way you so easily dismiss people and feel
               | that your interpretation is the only correct one is
               | extremely offputting. Productive conversation cannot
               | happen if you keep dismissing everyone else as "missing
               | the obvious."
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > My problem with your reasoning is that it relies on a
               | literal interpretation of the words spoken in the book.
               | 
               | What? Now you are just desperately grasping at straws.
               | 
               | > The father says that "there are no other kids his age",
               | yes, but remember...most of the book is told through the
               | father's eyes.
               | 
               | And? So what? The kid also says so, not that it matters.
               | 
               | > There is no information technology anymore...
               | 
               | That's right. Before the internet and IT, nobody saw any
               | children. This comment is the dumbest thing I've read in
               | a long while.
               | 
               | > all he knows is that he has not seen any kids and that
               | he hasn't heard of any kids. He is an unreliable
               | narrator.
               | 
               | The kid also said so. And I don't think you know what
               | "unreliable narrator" is. There has to be clues within
               | the story to imply that he is unreliable (
               | psychologically, memorywise, etc ). Not that he doesn't
               | have access to a smartphone.
               | 
               | > Have you ever picked up a six year old? They weigh
               | practically nothing.
               | 
               | Yes. Not only that, I was six year old once. Long before
               | I was 6 years old, my parents stopped carrying me around.
               | And you are being intentionally sneaky here. Who said
               | anything about picking up a 6 year old. I said carry a 6
               | year old how many miles they had to go.
               | 
               | > Perhaps if he gets off to the idea of betrayal, or if
               | he really does think that having a kid follow him for 10
               | miles would be easier convincing him would be easier, but
               | I have a hard time believing that.
               | 
               | Yes. It's easier to believe that in a starving world, a
               | random kind couple is willing to take in someone else's
               | child to feed. Something his own father struggled
               | immensely to do. That is easier to believe.
               | 
               | It's obvious what happened. It's why you ignored every
               | one of my points except the absolutely nonsense about "no
               | more information technology..."
               | 
               | Let me guess, you are the type of person who watched the
               | movie No Country for Old Men and believe that chigurh
               | didn't kill the wife. Or that the girl in the red dress
               | in schindler's list wasn't dead but playing dead because
               | she was saved by some magical good nazis. At this point I
               | hope you at pretending to be trolling to save yourself
               | some embarrassment.
               | 
               | I'm so dumb. I forgot that before information technology,
               | kids were invisible. Thank you.
        
               | danjoredd wrote:
               | It is not letting me reply to your reply to my comment,
               | so I am going to reply here instead.
               | 
               | >What? Now you are just desperately grasping at straws.
               | 
               | Explain. Am I incorrect?
               | 
               | >And? So what? The kid also says so, not that it matters.
               | 
               | Because he has not seen any. Just because they didn't see
               | any kids doesn't mean they don't exist. The fact that the
               | kid himself exists suggests that this is not entirely
               | correct.
               | 
               | >That's right. Before the internet and IT, nobody saw any
               | children. This comment is the dumbest thing I've read in
               | a long while.
               | 
               | I would appreciate it if you could make a point without
               | resorting to insults. For one suggesting that others are
               | childish for their interpretations, you are resorting to
               | childish actions.
               | 
               | As for my point, perhaps I was not clear in my meaning. I
               | meant that there was no way to verify that there are no
               | kids...no newspapers saying that "all kids are dead," or
               | any other way for him to verify that information. He is
               | just saying what he has seen, which is no kids.
               | 
               | >There has to be clues within the story to imply that he
               | is unreliable ( psychologically, memorywise, etc ). Not
               | that he doesn't have access to a smartphone.
               | 
               | Again, you misinterpret my point. The father is not
               | omniscient. He does not know for certain.
               | 
               | >Yes. Not only that, I as six year old once. Long before
               | I was 6 years old, my parents stopped carrying me around.
               | And you are being intentionally sneaky here. Who said
               | anything about picking up a 6 year old. I said carry a 6
               | year old how many miles they had to go.
               | 
               | At this point, I am starting to think you are not
               | actually reading my comments. A well fed cannibal with a
               | stomach full of people is not going to have trouble
               | carrying a six year old the same way a starving father on
               | the brink of death would be.
               | 
               | >Let me guess, you are the type of person who watched the
               | movie No Country for Old Men and believe that chigurh
               | didn't kill the wife. Or that the girl in the red dress
               | in schindler's list wasn't dead but playing dead because
               | she was saved by some magical good nazis. At this point I
               | hope you at pretend to be trolling to save yourself some
               | embarrassment.
               | 
               | Now you are resorting to ad hominem and assuming things
               | about my character. No, I am sure Chigurh killed the
               | wife. I have not seen Shindler's List so I cannot say one
               | way or the other.
               | 
               | >At this point I hope you at pretend to be trolling to
               | save yourself some embarrassment
               | 
               | The only person embarrassed here is you. You have shown
               | great immaturity during this conversation, and
               | immediately assume the worst in everyone. That says a lot
               | more about you than me. I will not be continuing this
               | conversation, because it is obvious any further
               | discussion with you will be fruitless. Have a blessed
               | day.
        
               | Tronno wrote:
               | From what I recall, it's not stated that the family who
               | takes in the boy are cannibals. That could be one
               | interpretation, I suppose, if depression is your goal.
               | 
               | But if you take them at their word, they're "carrying the
               | fire", so the story gets a hopeful ending.
               | 
               | Perhaps that's what people find uplifting about it.
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > From what I recall, it's not stated that the family who
               | takes in the boy are cannibals.
               | 
               | It isn't explicitly stated, but it is heavily implied. I
               | gave my reasons to another comment.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36326924
               | 
               | > That could be one interpretation, I suppose, if
               | depression is your goal.
               | 
               | It's a work of fiction. Nobody died. Nobody starved.
               | Nothing to get depressed about.
        
               | tehnub wrote:
               | >This is just reviews with the word "uplifting". Many of
               | the comments with "uplifting" is just saying it is not
               | uplifting.
               | 
               | I noted that when I posted the link. But at least half
               | are saying it is uplifting.
               | 
               | I obviously can't argue further as I haven't read it. I
               | will remark that different people will react to the same
               | material variously uplifted or beaten-down, and neither
               | reaction is less valid (unless they just misunderstood
               | the plot). Personally, I tend to find depictions of
               | nobility and perseverance in the face of imminent doom
               | interesting and moving if not uplifting.
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > I obviously can't argue further as I haven't read it.
               | 
               | You should. It's the best of its kind in my opinion.
               | 
               | > I will remark that different people will react to the
               | same material variously uplifted or beaten-down, and
               | neither reaction is less valid (unless they just
               | misunderstood the plot).
               | 
               | I'm open to people having subjective feelings - like
               | whether they enjoyed it, they found it too graphic, not
               | graphic enough, etc. But uplifting is different. There
               | has to be something concrete to back up the feeling of
               | being uplifted.
               | 
               | > Personally, I tend to find depictions of nobility and
               | perseverance in the face of imminent doom interesting and
               | moving if not uplifting.
               | 
               | But that's the point. It isn't nobility and perseverance
               | in the face of imminent doom. The mother thought it was
               | inevitable doom. The father had hope. It's perseverance
               | in false hope. Nonexistent hope. It's like you seeing a
               | person jump 100 stories from the twin towers and flapping
               | his arms in the hopes of flying and saving himself. Would
               | you say that is uplifting? Of course not. Unless you were
               | being edgy or silly.
               | 
               | Instead of reading silly amazon reviews, go read the book
               | and see for yourself.
        
               | huthuthike wrote:
               | I disagree with your interpretation of the ending. It
               | felt to me that the family that takes in the boy are not
               | bad people.
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > It felt to me that the family that takes in the boy are
               | not bad people.
               | 
               | What family? You really believe the man and woman who
               | took in the boy had a "family"? A world where boy's own
               | mother abandoned him and his father to kill herself
               | because there was no hope. A world where there are no
               | plants, animals, fish, etc left. A world where a a woman
               | gives birth and then she and her friends cook the fetus
               | over a campfire. You think in a world where there is no
               | food, no possibility of food, where everyone is either
               | starving to death or cannibalizing, that there is a happy
               | family? It's a world where everyone is starving to death.
               | You think "a family" is going to take in an extra mouth
               | to feed?
               | 
               | Did you miss the parts in the book where they explicitly
               | mention how there is no children the boy's age left? The
               | boy desperately wants a friend but there are no children
               | his age left. Except for that one "imaginary" kid he ran
               | into that disappeared. Why do you think that is?
               | 
               | Also, the father and son were being hunted by a pack of
               | cannibals who mortally wound the father. What are the
               | odds that the cannibal hunters caught up to him. What are
               | the odds that a magical good samaritan family stumbled
               | upon him?
               | 
               | When I first read the book, I thought the kid was saved.
               | Then I reread it and boy cormac really made it crystal
               | clear how hopeless that world was.
        
               | huthuthike wrote:
               | The boy offers to give the man his pistol but the man
               | tells him to keep it. That indicates the man is not
               | trying to trick him.
               | 
               | Talking about odds in a fictional story is misguided. The
               | odds are 100% whatever the writer intended.
        
             | oilchange wrote:
             | > It was, I'm told, a very good book that I noped out of
             | about ten pages in.
             | 
             | That's strange. The book grabs your attention from the get
             | go. It starts strong. Stays strong. Ends strong.
             | 
             | > I made it that far before becoming incredibly annoyed at
             | the way literature critics were praising his new invention
             | of post-apocalyptic stories which nobody had ever read
             | before ever.
             | 
             | This makes absolutely no sense. Were you reading the book
             | and reading reviews at the same time?
             | 
             | > Also, if I remember correctly, he felt that the rules of
             | punctuation didn't apply to him. Maybe that paid off if I'd
             | read more than ten pages.
             | 
             | His punctuation was fine. The book reads well. His words
             | and sentences flow. I found it easily one of the most
             | accessible.
             | 
             | > it's just not a story I want to hear. If I want to be
             | depressed and angry Hacker News.
             | 
             | Ah there it is. People with petty gripes always have an
             | agenda. So your "gripes" above are just because you want
             | don't like apocalytic stories and want to warn people off
             | it? Why not just say so instead of making up silly
             | criticisms? Also, it's a work of fiction. It isn't real.
             | Really nothing to get depressed or angry about. If
             | anything, it should make you happy since we don't like in
             | such a hopeless world. But really, like all great
             | literature, it should make you think.
        
               | nl wrote:
               | > His punctuation was fine. The book reads well. His
               | words and sentences flow. I found it easily one of the
               | most accessible.
               | 
               | No, this is a fair criticism.
               | 
               | It's true this is done for literary effect, but it does
               | make it harder to read.
               | 
               | To quote McCarthy himself:
               | 
               | > James Joyce is a good model for punctuation. He keeps
               | it to an absolute minimum. There's no reason to blot the
               | page up with weird little marks. I mean, if you write
               | properly you shouldn't have to punctuate.[1]
               | 
               | Whilst this might be true, his punctuation style is non-
               | conventional and that does break our expectations making
               | it harder to follow.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.openculture.com/2013/08/cormac-mccarthys-
               | punctua...
        
               | oilchange wrote:
               | > It's true this is done for literary effect, but it does
               | make it harder to read.
               | 
               | What literary effect? I didn't even notice there were
               | punctuation issues until I read the guy's comment. Maybe
               | since it was basically a book where most of the dialogue
               | is between two people? It was one of the easiest and most
               | straightforward reads of my life.
               | 
               | > > James Joyce is a good model for punctuation. He keeps
               | it to an absolute minimum. There's no reason to blot the
               | page up with weird little marks. I mean, if you write
               | properly you shouldn't have to punctuate.[1]
               | 
               | ..."to make it easier, not to make it harder" to decipher
               | his prose. He wrote that way to make it easier to read.
               | And I agree with him. His prose just flowed. Also, the
               | problem with joyce isn't the punctation. Even with proper
               | punctuation, joyce would be difficult.
               | 
               | But if people have issues with it, then so be it. Are
               | there any examples where his punctuation caused issues
               | for readers?
        
         | The_Colonel wrote:
         | I did the same, read it in one (or maybe two) days.
         | 
         | In retrospect, I'm conflicted. In some way, it seems too
         | straightforward ("The Road" title fits well) dystopia.
         | Distilled, masterfully executed, but somehow ... trivial? Maybe
         | it's the "Seinfeld is unfunny" trope where it can become
         | obvious only after experiencing it.
        
         | kjs3 wrote:
         | I didn't read it in one go. I had to put it down a couple of
         | times. Haunting doesn't cover it.
        
         | bena wrote:
         | I've only watched the movie. But after having watched it, I
         | facetiously recommend that you only watch it if you are
         | currently happy. Because damn, is it just the biggest fucking
         | downer. It will make you more depressed after having watched
         | it. So if you watch it while already depressed, I can't imagine
         | the depths it will bring you to.
         | 
         | It's a good movie, and I'm sure a good book (consider it thrown
         | on the backlog), but damn, so effectively bleak.
        
           | bmj wrote:
           | The movie does away with the ambiguity at the end of the
           | book, in an effort to have a vaguely "happy ending."
           | 
           | The best adaption of McCarthy's work to the screen is No
           | Country For Old Men. The Coen brothers seem to "get" McCarthy
           | better than others.
        
             | drawkbox wrote:
             | Interestingly Josh Brolin in No Country for Old Men looks
             | alot like Cormac McCarthy around the same age. [1][2][3]
             | 
             | Coen brothers still make movies with real people and
             | brought this world to life in an authentic way.
             | 
             | [Anton vs the "We can't give out no information"
             | lady](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WLA81q9ok0) I love
             | Coen movies with regular people like this. The lady is
             | hilarious and it is one of the only people that Anton
             | didn't take out.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormac_McCarthy#/media/Fi
             | le:Co...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/how-quentin-
             | tarantino-...
             | 
             | [3] https://twitter.com/mdbell79/status/1263644096385564673
        
             | bena wrote:
             | I've watched that one too. That one has a sort of resigned
             | feeling to it. Situations are over, but nothing is really
             | resolved. It's kind of like a serious version of Burn After
             | Reading. Here are these various lives and stories and the
             | situation that has intertwined them. Once the situation is
             | has passed, everyone is affected in different ways, but
             | nothing really ends.
        
         | teh_klev wrote:
         | I also read The Road in a single sitting but over night. It was
         | also a stormy night in late November which just added to the
         | atmosphere of the book. The next day felt pretty bleak and
         | grey, just like the weather and my mood. I love it when a book
         | can do that to you.
        
         | leokennis wrote:
         | I read this book when my second son was just born. I cannot
         | recommend reading a book so bleak and soul crushing and
         | unforgiving as The Road while your mind is at its softest and
         | most protective. To feel so hopeless and inadequate as a
         | father...I would not wish it on even the foulest villain in the
         | world.
        
           | wigster wrote:
           | i started it just as my first child was born. i quickly
           | stopped and never wanted to go back.
        
         | prawn wrote:
         | I'd read it multiple times previously, but recently picked it
         | up after having not read a book in a year or two. Got through
         | 160 pages without realising. Felt like I'd blinked and it
         | happened.
         | 
         | My son is now a bit older than the boy would be. I feel like
         | the book would either build your resolve or beat it down, so
         | just go in forewarned.
        
         | Xenoamorphous wrote:
         | Is that where the movie with Viggo Mortensen came from? I
         | didn't know it was based on a book, the movie was soul
         | crushing.
        
           | ewjt wrote:
           | It is the only book I wish I could forget completely.
           | 
           | Serious advice: think twice before reading The Road if you're
           | susceptible to doom and gloom about the human race.
        
             | bamfly wrote:
             | Damn. I must have exceptionally dark taste in media,
             | because I've definitely got a few "well, that was good, but
             | I kinda wish I hadn't read/watched it" things in my
             | history, and _The Road_ wasn 't even close to qualifying.
             | I'd say the film _Threads_ hit me harder, to pick something
             | with similar setting and circumstances, though that 's
             | still not quite in that category.
             | 
             | ( _It Comes at Night_ is probably my #1 in that category
             | for film, and I guess Watts ' _Blindsight_ in books--both
             | messed me up for days after, the former with some
             | depressive nihilism, the latter with days of fairly intense
             | derealization that weren 't too fun--and I'm not normally
             | especially prone to either of those, I don't think)
        
               | digging wrote:
               | I know this won't apply to everyone, but _Blindsight_ is
               | one of the few pieces of media that noticeably changed my
               | life. Here be profound ideas, although your mileage may
               | vary, especially if you 're neurotypical or already very
               | well read in concepts of truly alien intelligence. (The
               | space probe chapter was one of the most life-changing
               | passages I've ever read, so that may tell the reader
               | something about my autism.)
               | 
               | I read the entire thing in HTML on my phone on the
               | author's web site over a week or so. After the first few
               | days of catching bits during breaks, I found myself
               | sitting at home on the porch just reading from my phone -
               | not typical for me. (I did later buy a copy.)
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | _It Comes at Night_ didn 't have anything come at night.
               | It was derivative of everything else in the genre to the
               | point of being a snore. I was so disappointed. One of my
               | least favorite A24 films.
               | 
               | I suppose I was expecting peak Shyamalan, but A24.
        
               | bamfly wrote:
               | Yeah, it was mostly just a slow-burn misery-fest. Now
               | that I think about it, I'm not sure I'd put it in the
               | "good, but also horrible" category, exactly. Like, I
               | don't think there's actually much to it other than the
               | misery. Not like a _Funny Games_ , say, that's thoroughly
               | miserable but also doing some other, interesting things
               | that both justify and require the misery.
        
               | MikeBVaughn wrote:
               | I found _Echopraxia_ a disappointing follow-up to
               | _Blindsight_ , because the thematic core was much harder
               | to grok, and it felt diffuse and attenuated. It's very
               | hard to write a novel that explores what it means for
               | scientists to encounter the limits of scientific
               | rationality as we understand it.
               | 
               | Interestingly, (and apropos) McCarthy's last, _Stella
               | Maris_ , I think, did a much more eloquent job of
               | exploring the same themes. _Stella Maris_ is astounding,
               | it 's cosmic horror without the 'supernatural.' Instead
               | there's only Godel and Metzinger.
        
               | digging wrote:
               | My impression is that Watts is best at first books in a
               | series. Both _Blindsight_ and _Starfish_ were (and are)
               | absolutely incredible to me, but both of their sequels
               | fall short of the original promise. However, from reading
               | his blog, this is not unexpected. He doesn 't write
               | sequels to further explore the same ideas, but to move
               | background ideas into the forefront and explore those.
               | This would naturally lead to disappointment if the reader
               | wants more of the original premise.
               | 
               | That said, I think _Echopraxia_ is a better sequel than
               | _Maelstrom_ and a pretty good book on its own. He is
               | working on a final book in the Blindopraxia trilogy and I
               | expect it to move even further from the wonder of the
               | original book, but now that my expectations are set I am
               | looking forward to it all the same.
        
               | dreamcompiler wrote:
               | _Blindsight_ is a masterpiece about intelligence without
               | consciousness. De-linking those ideas can be seriously
               | jarring for humans, because we usually consider them two
               | sides of the same coin.
               | 
               | Plus one of the more normal characters investigating the
               | phenomenon just happens to be a vampire who--surprisingly
               | enough--is neither formulaic nor boring.
        
               | bamfly wrote:
               | > Plus one of the more normal characters investigating
               | the phenomenon just happens to be a vampire who--
               | surprisingly enough--is neither formulaic nor boring.
               | 
               | The writing-guide-esque "OK, now write down ten wild
               | elements or characters that certainly _do not_ fit in
               | your world... _flip page_ ... and now add one of them,
               | finding a way to connect it to some other element you 've
               | already established" was almost comically transparent,
               | but also so damn effective that I've added it to the ol'
               | toolbox.
               | 
               | (I mean, I don't know that Watts literally did that sort
               | of exercise, exactly, and even doubt that he did, but in
               | my head that's definitely how that part got in there)
        
               | digging wrote:
               | I feel pretty certain that the vampires were included in
               | quite the opposite way - especially if you read the
               | sequel, which features their story more heavily. To me,
               | the existence of vampires in the _Blindsight_ setting
               | seems essential.
        
             | ali_m wrote:
             | No, you have to carry the fire
        
             | prawn wrote:
             | I like that you can play through both The Last of Us games
             | and think "What a grim existence, scraping together things
             | to cobble a defence against relentless threats. Horrific."
             | 
             | And compare it to The Road, whose environment would have
             | you _begging_ for a holiday to The Last of Us. Not just the
             | lack of food, but the lack of ability to grow new food, to
             | rest, to warm, to heal. The constant, dogged, thinking,
             | scheming threats. And your kid isn 't pushing ladders down
             | to you nearly enough.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | Yes. If you enjoyed it, a film adaptation for another of
           | McCarthy's novels, Blood Meridian was recently green lit.
           | 
           | https://deadline.com/2023/04/new-regency-cormac-mccarthys-
           | bl...
        
             | runevault wrote:
             | The fact Cormac was working on the screenplay himself... I
             | wonder how that impacts this effort.
        
             | suction wrote:
             | [dead]
        
             | jebarker wrote:
             | I cannot imagine how this is going to work.
        
       | sandkoan wrote:
       | Something which may not be known to many, McCarthy was also quite
       | interested in math, philosophy, cognition. A piece of his non-
       | fiction work which made a lasting impression on me was "The
       | Kekule Problem" [0], exploring the power of the _unconscious_ ,
       | combative with consciousness, as an unveiler of Truth.
       | 
       | 0: https://nautil.us/the-kekul-problem-236574/
        
         | zls wrote:
         | If you've read his final two books it's incredible clear how
         | fascinated he is by math, physics, and their interaction at
         | philosophy. Stella Maris is basically just a long exploration
         | of the philosophical implications of math, in dialogue form.
        
       | mahathu wrote:
       | I will never remember this Yelp Review a fan of his wrote:
       | 
       | Three stars.
       | 
       | See that false burrito. See it swaddled in tinfoil on the desk in
       | the bowels of that great tower, a bundle of meat and sauce in a
       | place long ago ceded to silicone and copper. The stooped man
       | eating that peasant food as if in consuming it he can escape to a
       | farmfield in a verdant valley and look down and see blood running
       | from his blisters and say, yes this is work. This is work.
       | Instead his hands are clawlike and ruined by the keyboard and the
       | mouse for he is a thing of bone and sinew in a sprawling
       | contraption electric and of man's creation but not of man at all.
       | And were he to saw his breast open with that plastic knife and
       | soak the carpet black with his hot blood and were he to look
       | ceilingward like some stigmatic enraptured and with the bellows
       | of his lungs let forth a soaring wail in that subbasement his
       | screams would be swallowed by the acoustic panels and repulsed by
       | the good steel door as if he had made no sound and spilled no
       | blood at all.
       | 
       | https://yelpingwithcormac.tumblr.com/post/15243208646/chipot...
        
         | pugworthy wrote:
         | Hah I see I am not the only fan!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | jnsie wrote:
       | I was not ready for this...such a huge loss.
        
       | bitcurious wrote:
       | The Road is one of the most haunting books I've ever read. Highly
       | recommend.
       | 
       | Warning though - it broke a game my friends play "how would you
       | survive X apocalypse?" My answer for many switched to "wouldn't
       | want to."
        
         | sh34r wrote:
         | Threads (1984) has the same effect.
         | 
         | On the bright side, it's a great antidote for anyone who's
         | falling too deep into the prepper rabbit hole. YAGNI.
        
         | prawn wrote:
         | To recover, watch The Last Man on Earth.
        
       | DontchaKnowit wrote:
       | I know its bad form to speak ill of the dead but -
       | 
       | A friend gave me a copy of "Child of God" amd frankly it was the
       | most disgusting, dark, unrewarding, unethical, uninspired,
       | uniteresting, poorly written books ive ever read.
       | 
       | I was flat out offended by the book and repeatedly had to set it
       | down and fume about how unnecessarily disgusting he was being. I
       | never finished it. I got the impression that cormac was a
       | thoroughly disturbed individual with a macabre fascination with
       | the most fucked up 0.00001% of humanity. To make matters worth he
       | cant write worth a damn.
       | 
       | I will say his metaphors can be quite beautiful hut they often
       | make no sense grammatically.
       | 
       | Tldr : Cormac Mccarthy is not for me.
        
         | serf wrote:
         | >I got the impression that cormac was a thoroughly disturbed
         | individual with a macabre fascination with the most fucked up
         | 0.00001% of humanity.
         | 
         | you should separate yourself from that notion.
         | 
         | it's true that authors can be damaged individuals with little
         | personal hope, but some of the most macabre things ever written
         | have been conjured by perfectly normal/well-functioning/happy
         | individuals who enjoy fairly well-balanced lives -- it's simply
         | not a good indicator of the person behind the pen.
         | 
         | as for the grammatic non-sense (to which I agree can be exactly
         | that, non-sense) I always read it as if it were sort of styled
         | similarly to the concept of 'beat poetry'. Grammar and syntax
         | goes out the door for prose/beauty/imagery and style.
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | 100% agree about his prose being basically beat poetry. I
           | think that was why I didnt like it. I hate spoken word poetry
           | 90% of the time. I can see the appeal, certainly, but it does
           | really feel middle school edgelord-ish to me.
        
         | suction wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | tmountain wrote:
         | Saying he can't write worth a damn is an objectively false
         | statement. His works are studied and loved by the literary
         | vanguard around the world.
         | 
         | You didn't like the book? Fine, but attacking his capabilities
         | as a writer is ridiculous. He's one of the greatest authors in
         | a generation.
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | Im not the only person with that opinion. Its a subjective
           | thing. In my opinion his writing is amatuerish. Reminds me of
           | stuff I would write trying to shock people in middle school.
           | 
           | Also Id like to clarify I am basing my opinion solely on the
           | one book of his ive tried to read- child of god
        
         | gerry_shaw wrote:
         | Your review is almost spot on for me. I'm agreeing with it all
         | along with the exception that I really like his writing and,
         | well, I would say "enjoy" his novels, I do respect and value
         | the time spent reading them.
        
         | pizzafeelsright wrote:
         | Cormac and the main character was a child of God, much like you
         | or I.
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | Actually, he doesnt even exist. He is a fantasy made by
           | someone who has a very very pessimistic view of humanity.
           | There are not very many Lesters out there. Sure, maybe a few,
           | but he is writing about something that is not at all
           | relatable. Hes singled out some fucked up abscess in the
           | human race and tried to make him sympathetic.
        
         | alangibson wrote:
         | Upvoted because being turned off my McCarthy is not an
         | unreasonable reaction.
         | 
         | Do yourself a favor and read Blood Meridian. It's been said
         | many times that you are not the same person when you're done
         | reading it. I fully agree.
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | I may give it a shot. Heard good things. I liked the movie of
           | no country as well, might have to give that book a shot too.
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | I find his exploration of dark matters to be uniquely
         | stimulating and useful in a variety of thought experiments.
         | 
         | Take The Road, for example. The notion of assessing the
         | probabilities that you'll have enough ammunition to either kill
         | multiple assailants, or alternatively, need to keep the
         | ammunition to kill yourself and your son _seems_ sickening and
         | pointless to explore to some people. Taken seriously and with
         | an open mind, it can invoke serious contemplation of your
         | values, what life means to you, what compassion can really
         | mean, how you take what you have for granted, and more.
         | 
         | As awful as it is to consider, there are real people who have
         | had to make these decisions. That there can be a state of
         | existence in this world where these are pressing matters is
         | simultaneously bewildering and disgusting, yet eye-opening in
         | ways I consider important to living better even outside of that
         | context.
         | 
         | The relentless and ruthless tunnel of gloom and suffering in
         | that book is a useful tool to remind yourself in a vivid way:
         | It's all still here. I'm alive. The trees are green, the rain
         | is clean, the grains are growing for a fall harvest I can still
         | reasonably expect will arrive -- life is pretty good. And yet
         | life can get so much worse. Perhaps I should value this moment
         | so much more than I was prior to these thoughts.
         | 
         | Cormac took the very real, very disgusting parts of humanity
         | and wove horrifying tapestries from it. But they're not purely
         | for the sake of shock and disgust. The contrast of what he
         | depicts -- held up to most readers' realities -- provides a
         | heightened sense of the inverse of what he describes, allowing
         | you to realize much better how beautiful the good parts of
         | humanity are. Left to our own imaginations, most of us are not
         | only unlikely to wade into that darkness, but we also lack the
         | sheer depth and breath of skill he has in bringing it to life.
         | What he offers is a sort of simulation of something otherwise
         | inaccessible to most of us.
         | 
         | I'd make the case that without this exploration, our perception
         | of life can be duller. I'd never want that dullness to be
         | sharpened by real experience though; I'd much rather brush
         | against that reality in the form of a story.
         | 
         | Human senses are calibrated by relative experience. Whether it
         | be taste, sight, smell, touch, or even emotion: you won't
         | recognize what feels good or what is better without
         | experiencing what's worse in some way or another. The harrowing
         | experience of imagining the vulnerability and suffering of
         | loved ones or yourself might actually be an excellent tool for
         | recalibrating and hardening your desire to see people safe and
         | thriving. It may reestablish how crucial it is not to let the
         | world descend into what Cormac describes. It can open your mind
         | to possibilities you hadn't considered in ways that aren't
         | strictly hypothetical or for the sake of pure masochism.
        
         | MikeBVaughn wrote:
         | "I will say his metaphors can be quite beautiful hut they often
         | make no sense grammatically."
         | 
         | Question 1: Example, please?
         | 
         | Question 1.5: In what way does the example not make sense
         | grammatically?
         | 
         | Question 2.0-2.(n): To what degree does grammar 'matter'? Is
         | conformance to some prescriptive view of grammar essential to
         | 'good' writing? What is the function of grammar - precision and
         | disambiguation? Are there contexts in which grammar can or
         | should be subservient to other linguistic effects, such as
         | prosody? Are there other phenomenological effects of reading to
         | which grammar may or may not be relevant?
         | 
         | An exercise for the motivated reader: Read 'A Carafe that is a
         | Blind Glass' by Gertrude Stein. What does it feel like? What
         | does it evoke? What are we doing mentally when we read it? What
         | exactly _are_ we doing when we read?
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | This is so hilariously pompous. I dont need to give you an
           | example. Im sure you can find one in the first chapter of
           | Child of God.
           | 
           | And grammer matters to the extent that the sentance is able
           | to convey its meaning clearly to the reader. In my opinion,
           | McCarthy does not hit this mark in a lot of case. Maybe im
           | too dense, but his mixture of invented hick language,
           | completely fucked up punctuation, and flowery/poetic
           | language, is often very tough to sus out. What is actually
           | supposed to be happening is often not so clear.
        
             | JoeAltmaier wrote:
             | That's all important, if he were writing documentation or a
             | technical manual.
             | 
             | That the reader is required to make some effort to un-knot
             | the language is a legitimate tool of the poet. Some are too
             | impatient, used to sound-bytes from a tv personality
             | perhaps, and won't open them selves to something novel or
             | evocative. It has to 'make sense' grammatically and
             | semantically. Poetry is often neither of those.
        
               | DontchaKnowit wrote:
               | Okay but he is a novelist. I didnt sign up for a book
               | full of confusing necrophelia poetry.
               | 
               | Ultimately this is all a matter if taste
        
               | JoeAltmaier wrote:
               | Exactly. Not a matter of an incompetent writer who just
               | won't say things plainly and grammatically.
        
               | DontchaKnowit wrote:
               | Okay sure. I do not have a problem with his skill, but
               | rather his style.
        
               | JoeAltmaier wrote:
               | Tortured to be sure!
               | 
               | Not a fan myself.
        
           | bamfly wrote:
           | > Question 2.0-2.(n): To what degree does grammar 'matter'?
           | Is conformance to some prescriptive view of grammar essential
           | to 'good' writing?
           | 
           | To be fair--his writing's a _lot_ more challenging than most.
           | Even most other literary writing. Even most other literary
           | writing that 's widely regarded as challenging. Editing it to
           | conform to language & grammatical norms would definitely make
           | it a lot easier to read.
           | 
           | > What is the function of grammar - precision and
           | disambiguation? Are there contexts in which grammar can or
           | should be subservient to other linguistic effects, such as
           | prosody? Are there other phenomenological effects of reading
           | to which grammar may or may not be relevant?
           | 
           | And this is the "on the other hand": on the other hand--and
           | most unusually--reigning in that deviation from norms, at
           | all, would, nonetheless, make his writing _worse_. Some
           | writing can tolerate bending even the more well-considered
           | and empathetic of writing rules--his required breaking them.
           | Demanded it, and demanded a whole other set of rules of his
           | own making, exactly as a poem may break the rules of prose
           | writing, while strictly following a whole other set of rules,
           | all to good effect.
        
         | voisin wrote:
         | > I was flat out offended by the book and repeatedly had to set
         | it down and fume about how unnecessarily disgusting he was
         | being.
         | 
         | Ok, but can you see any beauty in the fact that he wrote words
         | that evoked such a response? How much do you read on a daily
         | basis that evokes absolutely nothing and passes without memory?
         | Read some of his other stuff if you didn't like this particular
         | novel.
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | No. I did not see any beauty in his graphic description of a
           | mentally retarded hillbilly ejaculating onto the corpse of a
           | young woman.
           | 
           | I was just offended.
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | > I know its bad form to speak ill of the dead but -
         | 
         | In defense of an otherwise entirely useless comment, you
         | weren't really speaking ill of the dead, you were speaking ill
         | of his work.
         | 
         | > To make matters worth he cant write worth a damn.
         | 
         | OK tough guy.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site
           | guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | Not liking a book isn't speaking ill of the dead.
         | 
         | But...
         | 
         | > I was flat out offended by the book
         | 
         | That was entirely up to you. That was a decision you made and
         | blamed on someone else. I feel like that is something important
         | to consider with your first sentence.
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | Idk man have you read it? I found his gratuitious
           | descriptions of a mentally retard man ejaculating onto the
           | corpse of a dead young lady to be profoundly disturbing and
           | unrewarding. It read to me like the author was exploring his
           | own fantasy, rather than using it as some kind of plot
           | device.
           | 
           | Im actually quite hard to offend but when a sick fuck
           | publishes and makes money of his disgusting pornography, its
           | upsetting. If it had some real artistic merit in my
           | estimation I would not be so bothered.
           | 
           | But clearly this is all subjective. It just crossed a line
           | with me, and the work wasnt meaningful enough to justify it.
        
         | asdasd213123 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | dang wrote:
           | We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site
           | guidelines. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules
           | with.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | Rapzid wrote:
         | Damn, this is quite the recommendation IMO.
        
         | stvltvs wrote:
         | There's early McCarthy and then there's late McCarthy. The
         | difference is stark. You should try one of his later books.
         | 
         | I read "Suttree", and it was a mixed bag for me. I loved "All
         | the Pretty Horses" and "The Road".
        
       | scranglis wrote:
       | In light of the LLM break throughs in the last couple of years,
       | I've been returning his speculative essay about the source of
       | symbolic thought every few months: https://nautil.us/the-kekul-
       | problem-236574/
        
       | projectileboy wrote:
       | It's not often that someone passes who is legitimately a giant,
       | someone whose impact will be felt generations from now. A sad
       | day.
        
       | fallinditch wrote:
       | Blood Meridian is a rendering of the actual history of that
       | period. McCarthy based the main characters on real people. The
       | kid is Samuel Chamberlain who wrote about his time with the
       | Glanton Gang in his memoir My Confessions: Recollections of a
       | Rogue. Here's a fascinating article that discusses Blood Meridian
       | as an important work of American history.
       | 
       | https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/crossing-the-blood-merid...
        
       | __abc wrote:
       | Fudge, I loved that guy and his work. I still remember how fun it
       | was to binge The Road in a single day. I don't think I left my
       | couch from the early morning on through to the late evening. Such
       | a compelling and gripping writer.
        
       | krylon wrote:
       | I read The Road while doing a lengthy daily commute via train,
       | leading through a kind of lush rural area in western Germany. I
       | vividly remember the stark contrast between the bleak world
       | described in the novel and the vibrant, colorful abundance of
       | life outside the window when I came up for air. It was a very
       | unreal experience, switching back and forth between these two
       | realities.
       | 
       | Blood Meridian was another monstrosity that lured me into a very
       | dark inner space. I think it expresses the USA's relationship to
       | violence better than anything else I have read, fiction or non-
       | fiction. But there is a lot more going on at the same time, and I
       | don't think I ever fully explored that. It didn't help that for a
       | relatively short novel, it's so exhausting to read, both
       | intellectually and emotionally.
        
         | SemioticStandrd wrote:
         | Absolutely. His books are like slabs of lead (in the best way).
         | Sitting down to read Cormac is a _decision_
        
       | pugworthy wrote:
       | One of my favorite bits of writing is "Yelping with Cormac", a
       | series of short humorous pieces written by E.D.W. Lynch.
       | 
       | An excerpt from "The Apple Store"...
       | 
       | "... There was folks outside just standin there. Line stretchin
       | round the block. Maybe a hundred people. I saw a man who'd
       | brought his own chair. He had a shirt on with the same logo as
       | the one on the store. I figured he worked there so I asked him
       | what the line was all about. What were all these people waitin
       | for. He told me it was for a apple phone or some such. I said
       | dont these folks have telephones already? He told me they all had
       | apple phones but it was the older one. I asked him what would
       | happen to the old apple phones. He told me about a fella named
       | Craig had a list and everbody sold their old telephones on it. A
       | telephone sellin list."
       | 
       | https://yelpingwithcormac.tumblr.com/best
        
         | lordfrito wrote:
         | OMG thanks for the link, funniest thing I've read in a while.
        
       | voisin wrote:
       | His famous "Legion of Horribles" quote below. I often think of
       | "death hilarious":
       | 
       | "A legion of horribles, hundreds in number, half naked or clad in
       | costumes attic or biblical or wardrobed out of a fevered dream
       | with the skins of animals and silk finery and pieces of uniform
       | still tracked with the blood of prior owners, coats of slain
       | dragoons, frogged and braided cavalry jackets, one in a stovepipe
       | hat and one with an umbrella and one in white stockings and a
       | bloodstained weddingveil and some in headgear of cranefeathers or
       | rawhide helmets that bore the horns of bull or buffalo and one in
       | a pigeontailed coat worn backwards and otherwise naked and one in
       | the armor of a spanish conquistador, the breastplate and
       | pauldrons deeply dented with old blows of mace or sabre done in
       | another country by men whose very bones were dust and many with
       | their braids spliced up with the hair of other beasts until they
       | trailed upon the ground and their horse's ears and tails worked
       | with bits of brightly colored cloth and one whose horse's whole
       | head was painted crimson red and all the horsemen's faces gaudy
       | and grotesque with daubings like a company of mounted clowns,
       | death hilarious, all howling in a barbarous tongue and riding
       | down upon them like a horde from a hell more horrible yet than
       | the brimstone land of christian reckoning, screeching and
       | yammering and clothed in smoke like those vaporous beings in
       | regions beyond right knowing where the eye wanders and the lip
       | jerks and drools.
       | 
       | Oh my god, said the sergeant."
        
         | prawn wrote:
         | I've used this sentence as an example with my children, showing
         | how with language you can demonstrate pace or frenzy. A battle
         | charge is absolute chaos. There's no time for sentence
         | structure, it's all wild glances from one thing to another.
        
         | trefoiled wrote:
         | As fantastical as this passage may sound, most of the details
         | McCarthy provides are historically accurate, and based on a
         | particular event: The Great Raid of 1840 [1]. A thousand
         | Comanche warriors conducted an extremely deep raid into
         | Southeast Texas, where they sacked the port of Linnville. An
         | exceptionally large amount of trade goods were present in the
         | port that day, including clothes bound for various settlements
         | across the Texas frontier. The bits about umbrellas, stovepipe
         | hats, and even the wedding veil come directly from eyewitnesses
         | to the raid. The bit about a Comanche warrior wearing the armor
         | of a conquistador is also real [2]. The Comanche were known for
         | being exceptionally flamboyant, prizing extravagant clothing
         | dyed in vibrant colors. It must have had quite a psychological
         | effect on their enemies.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Raid_of_1840
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://www.google.com/books/edition/Comanches/Cqh8qSexvU4C?...
        
           | mooreds wrote:
           | If you are interested in learning more about Comanches, can't
           | recommend "The Comanche Empire" highly enough:
           | https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300151176/the-
           | comanche-e...
        
             | therealdrag0 wrote:
             | There's also Empire of the Summer Moon which I enjoyed.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | akiselev wrote:
           | _> The bit about a Comanche warrior wearing the armor of a
           | conquistador is also real_
           | 
           | That was probably Iron Jacket [1] who is known for wearing
           | conquistador armor that made him seem impervious to light
           | arms fire.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Jacket
        
         | klooney wrote:
         | There used to be a Bay Area band that did this as a bit-
         | https://open.spotify.com/track/3jluqiK6yGNGg0xwJIs6kX?si=GTq...
        
       | next_xibalba wrote:
       | I think this paragraph, from The Road, is one of the most
       | beautiful I've ever read:
       | 
       | "Once there were brook trouts in the streams in the mountains.
       | You could see them standing in the amber current where the white
       | edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. They smelled of
       | moss in your hand. Polished and muscular and torsional. On their
       | backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in
       | its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put
       | back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived
       | all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery."
        
       | dvt wrote:
       | I read The Road years ago, but I was probably too young to fully
       | understand it; more recently, I read Blood Meridian a few months
       | ago for my book club. Few novels have had me think about them as
       | much (Dostoevsky's Demons and Melville's Moby Dick come to mind).
       | McCarthy was an absolute American treasure.
       | 
       | Rest in peace. His poetic Blood Meridian epilogue really stuck
       | with me:
       | 
       | "In the dawn there is a man progressing over the plain by means
       | of holes which he is making in the ground. He uses an implement
       | with two handles and he chucks it into the hole and he enkindles
       | the stone in the hole with his steel hole by hole striking the
       | fire out of the rock which God has put there. On the plain behind
       | him are the wanderers in search of bones and those who do not
       | search and they move haltingly in the light like mechanisms whose
       | movements are monitored with escapement and pallet so that they
       | appear restrained by a prudence or reflectiveness which has no
       | inner reality and they cross in their progress one by one that
       | track of holes that runs to the rim of the visible ground and
       | which seems less the pursuit of some continuance than the
       | verification of a principle, a validation of sequence and
       | causality as if each round and perfect hole owed its existence to
       | the one before it there on that prairie upon which are the bones
       | and the gatherers of bones and those who do not gather. He
       | strikes fire in the hole and draws out his steel. Then they all
       | move on again."
        
         | OscarTheGrinch wrote:
         | "Already gunfire was general within the tent..." That line
         | encapsulates so much.
        
         | Solvency wrote:
         | Why do you suppose Blood Meridian hasn't been put to film yet?
        
           | dmbche wrote:
           | From my reading and working in editing movies:
           | 
           | The point of the book is not at all the visual, most of it is
           | very subtle. One commentary that I heard that was very astute
           | pointed out that many parts of the book are specifically not
           | detailed, one big example being that we rarely if ever
           | witness the Kid killing or partaking in the murder/general
           | viciousness of the gang.
           | 
           | This means that a large part of the book is emulated in your
           | brain while reading - did you infer that the kid is doing all
           | this, and is just as bad as them? Is he an observer, like
           | you, and doesn't leave because he doesn't know better? Does
           | he actively try to avoid unnecessary violence?
           | 
           | Your reading of these things will affect your reading of
           | further parts - like the accusations of Holden, saying that
           | the Kid was always a traitor to the spirit of the gang, which
           | are not specific enough to be factual, but you absolutely
           | know what he means while reading (depending on how you
           | characterised the Kid).
           | 
           | All this means that any one expression of the story would
           | betray the oeuvre (in my mind), which aims to get you in the
           | boots of these horrible men and understand that they are part
           | of you (between other things).
           | 
           | The stark writing and purposeful lack of factual descriptions
           | of some key points make Blood Meridian a very evocative work,
           | rather than descriptive. Half of it is and remains in your
           | mind, and that's simply not what movies do.
           | 
           | All this to say - you can do a movie showing what happens in
           | the book, and it would be good! But it would contain very
           | little of why the book is so beloved and respected.
        
           | maherbeg wrote:
           | I feel like it would do better as a limited series ideally on
           | HBO.
        
             | zerbinxx wrote:
             | Idk, I feel like HBO (or any mainstream tele studio) might
             | butcher it by trying to hamfistedly make it a revisionist
             | Western along the lines of "White Man Bad" without catching
             | the actual point about evil being inherent in everything.
             | Thats undoubtedly a part of the reason as to why it hasn't
             | made it to screen yet - it's not a story that fits nicely
             | into the sort of Hollywood trope oriented storytelling that
             | dominates mainstream TV.
        
               | petsfed wrote:
               | Agreed. Its not even that a "white man bad" reading of
               | Blood Meridian is _wrong_ per se, its just woefully
               | incomplete. It 'd be like if Apocalypse Now was just John
               | Wick in the jungle, or Blade Runner was just a police
               | procedural with flying cars. Like, yes, that is the
               | skeleton on which the piece is hung, but it is not at all
               | what makes the piece great.
        
           | idlewords wrote:
           | The musical numbers are notoriously hard to stage
        
             | Tao3300 wrote:
             | You just need a few fiddlers for the big dance scene.
        
             | mrbombastic wrote:
             | Can't wait until "No Country for Old Men" hits Broadway
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | I bet you can hear the silenced shotgun number all the
               | way up in the gods at the Albert with its acoustics.
        
           | alpineidyll3 wrote:
           | Who would you cast as the judge?
        
             | JasserInicide wrote:
             | Glenn Fleshler, the main villain from True Detective S1. As
             | soon as I started reading Blood Meridian, he was the first
             | guy that popped into my head. He has that surreal quasi-
             | supernatural energy.
        
             | HyperSane wrote:
             | Complete CGI character like Thanos played by Vincent
             | D'Onfrio.
        
             | dmbche wrote:
             | Having just seen someone mention Phillip Seymour Hoffman, I
             | am drooling imagining what that would have looked like.
        
             | akiselev wrote:
             | De-aged Clancy Brown or Michael Ironside.
        
               | Slow_Hand wrote:
               | It's hard to say why, but Clancy Brown is the one person
               | I can see with the physicality of The Judge. Maybe it's
               | because of his role as The Kurgan in Highlander.
        
               | southernplaces7 wrote:
               | Clancy Brown or Glenn Fleshler (True Detective season 1)
               | probably come closest in my view. Another one, if he were
               | younger and bulkier, and hairless, who I think fits best
               | with the book's overall description of the Judge would be
               | Sid Haig.
               | 
               | The important aspect of an actor for the Judge wouldn't
               | just be his physicality and baldness, it would also have
               | to be a certain very particular type of sinister air. Few
               | large actors have that.
        
             | googlryas wrote:
             | Kane - aka Glenn Thomas Jacobs.
             | 
             | 7'0, 330 lbs, light complexion, looks good hairless, has
             | acting experience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_(wres
             | tler)#/media/File:Th...
        
               | defen wrote:
               | Plus he's the mayor of Knoxville, McCarthy's old
               | hometown.
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | While he might look right, there's a lot more to the
               | judge than looks. I'm unfamiliar with his acting
               | experience but i think the movie will 100% fall flat if
               | the judge isn't right. I'm not sure kane has the range
        
             | stubybubs wrote:
             | I'm gonna be brave and say Dave Bautista. I haven't seen
             | Knock at the Cabin yet, but it looks like he's got the
             | range from the previews. He's big enough and imposing
             | enough as well.
        
             | hindsightbias wrote:
             | D'Onofrio
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | WSJ: People have said "Blood Meridian" is unfilmable because
           | of the sheer darkness and violence of the story.
           | 
           | CM: That's all crap. The fact that's it's a bleak and bloody
           | story has nothing to do with whether or not you can put it on
           | the screen. That's not the issue. The issue is it would be
           | very difficult to do and would require someone with a
           | bountiful imagination and a lot of balls. But the payoff
           | could be extraordinary.
           | 
           | https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704576204574529.
           | ..
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | If somebody managed to raise the money to make multiple
             | human centipede films, or "a serbian film", anything is
             | possible.
        
             | caskstrength wrote:
             | > would require someone with a bountiful imagination and a
             | lot of balls
             | 
             | So unfilmable in current Hollywood?
        
             | Synaesthesia wrote:
             | Somehow don't see Hollywood making a movie about how the US
             | was based on a terrible genocide.
        
               | waihtis wrote:
               | I disagree, I think it would fit perfectly over the
               | zeitgeist where national pride of any kind is reviled
        
               | Synaesthesia wrote:
               | So that's why Top Gun did so well? Or any blockbuster
               | movie recently, particularly action movies?
        
               | bamfly wrote:
               | Eh, I don't think you have to take a silly, fun _633
               | Squadron_ remake with cool practical FX as nationalist
               | propaganda. It may as well have been a Star Wars movie.
        
               | waihtis wrote:
               | stated vs revealed preferences
        
           | dvt wrote:
           | It's extremely violent, borderline-surreal in some places,
           | excruciatingly slow in others (by design), occasionally has
           | two or three levels of story-within-a-story. Unlike some of
           | his other novels, it's more of an epic than a story, which is
           | usually very hard to put on film. The closest I can think of
           | is something like Ben-Hur or Apocalypse Now (which adapted
           | Conrad's Heart of Darkness); both were famously plagued by
           | production issues.
        
             | dimitrios1 wrote:
             | You've seen Yellowstone, no? I don't think violence is an
             | issue anymore for americans.
        
               | jebarker wrote:
               | I haven't seen Yellowstone but I'd be amazed if it comes
               | at all close to Blood Meridian for violence. I can't
               | think of any movie or TV show that would.
               | 
               | edit: American Psycho might have if they'd stayed
               | faithful to the book
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | poisonarena wrote:
           | Because nobody could handle the judge, that, and would take
           | such a particular style of photography to capture the prose.
           | I think mostly because of the complex characters like the
           | judge, and the violence.
        
             | mmanfrin wrote:
             | Phillip Seymour Hoffman would have, he truly would have
             | been perfect.
             | 
             | The best suggestion I've heard for someone living is Vince
             | D'Onofrio but I don't know if he has the total range
             | needed.
        
             | voisin wrote:
             | Marlon Brando from Apocalypse Now would have killed it as
             | Judge Holden.
        
               | Tao3300 wrote:
               | Too mumbly. One of the things that makes the Judge so
               | terrifying is how articulate and eloquent he is.
        
             | lordfrito wrote:
             | Marlon Brando would have been amazing as the Judge.
        
           | kgwgk wrote:
           | It's coming. Or at least it was coming. The adaptation was
           | probably far from finished and may be abandoned now.
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36316524
        
             | porphyra wrote:
             | Is it merely a coincidence that Judge Holden was described
             | as "face destitute of hair" and the director, John
             | Hillcoat, is also bald and devoid of both eyebrows and
             | facial hair?
        
           | JasserInicide wrote:
           | The number of directors that could do it justice is _very_
           | short. Lynch, Cronenberg, Friedkin.
        
           | subsubzero wrote:
           | Looks like they are finally working on a film version as of
           | April 2023:
           | 
           | > it was announced in April 2023 that New Regency is set to
           | produce a feature film based on the novel, with McCarthy and
           | his son serving as executive producers and John Hillcoat
           | serving as director.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Meridian
        
             | atombender wrote:
             | Hillcoat made The Proposition, which is a very McCartyesque
             | film in its bleakness and violence. It's a great movie,
             | written by and scored by Nick Cave.
             | 
             | I thought his adaptation of The Road was fine (though maybe
             | a book that doesn't need an adaptation), and he hasn't done
             | anything interesting since then, in my opinion. But Blood
             | Meridian may be better material for him.
        
               | johnvaluk wrote:
               | Whenever someone wishes for a film adaptation of Blood
               | Meridian, I recommend The Proposition. I'll be amazed if
               | any Blood Meridian movie is as good.
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | I think some books just don't adapt to movies well. Cloud
           | Atlas is one of my favorite books and I was shocked to learn
           | it was being made into a movie, it just didn't seem like the
           | right format. Despite a lot of talent and money going into
           | it, the film didn't turn out that great and was probably an
           | impossible task.
        
           | HyperSane wrote:
           | The hundreds of people being brutally murdered would make it
           | hard to not be NC-17 rated. The Judge would be nearly
           | impossible to cast.
        
           | stubybubs wrote:
           | I would hope any good director would have the sense to know
           | that it probably isn't for them. I can't imagine Spielberg
           | picking this up. Gangs of New York is about as close as
           | Scorsese could get but still too Hollywood. The Cohens did a
           | great job of No Country but don't seem like a fit for Blood
           | Meridian.
           | 
           | And hopefully nobody would offer it to somebody second rate.
        
             | breakbread wrote:
             | Paul Thomas Anderson?
        
             | ftxbro wrote:
             | terry gilliam
        
         | noduerme wrote:
         | The Road was really poorly written, but it did have an
         | emotional resonance. It was beautiful in some ways, but it was
         | a pretty crappy novel that didn't deserve a fraction of the
         | attention it received. I'm still a bit baffled as to why it
         | received that much attention. I picked it up at random off my
         | gf's bookshelf last year, and read it in a day. It was quite
         | simplistic. Calling it _reductive_ would be giving it undue
         | credit.
         | 
         | If you write a novel that aims to distill a genre into its own
         | __prototype methods, you should leave the reader with a feeling
         | that you're doing something more important and artful than
         | simply cashing in on the existing archetype. Perhaps, like, a
         | critique of the archetype itself embedded in the work would
         | give the reader something more to think about.
         | 
         | [edit] I'd also just call attention to "Earth Abides" by George
         | R. Stewart (1949). This pulpy, pathos-ridden, amazing jerk-off
         | sci-fi fantasy of being the last person on earth already hits
         | pretty much all the major themes. If you're going to write the
         | dark and traumatizing version of it with a boy in tow, how
         | about adding something to the genre rather than collecting
         | accolades based on an unproven assumption that by reducing it
         | to parts you have somehow expanded upon it?
        
         | ftio wrote:
         | I choose to read this as describing a frustrating round of
         | golf.
        
           | bamfly wrote:
           | Through the fence, between the curling flower spaces, I could
           | see them hitting. They were coming toward where the flag was
           | and I went along the fence. Luster was hunting in the grass
           | by the flower tree. They took the flag out, and they were
           | hitting. Then they put the flag back and they went to the
           | table, and he hit and the other hit. Then they went on, and I
           | went along the fence. Luster came away from the flower tree
           | and we went along the fence and they stopped and we stopped
           | and I looked through the fence while Luster was hunting in
           | the grass.
           | 
           | (Faulkner; the first lines of _The Sound and the Fury_ )
        
             | ftio wrote:
             | Absolutely gorgeous. Thank you for sharing.
        
           | ethbr0 wrote:
           | Truly an indictment of those who build golf courses, by which
           | metric Florida is utterly damned.
        
           | ftxbro wrote:
           | "A legion of golfers, dozens in number, dressed in plaid or
           | argyle or attired in golfing gear from a bygone era, with
           | visors and gloves and golf bags still stained with the grass
           | and dirt of prior rounds. Some wore knickers and tam
           | o'shanters, while others donned bright polo shirts and khaki
           | shorts. One golfer carried a large umbrella, another wore
           | white knee-high socks stained with grass, and another wore a
           | bloodstained wedding veil. Some wore hats adorned with
           | feathers or made of rawhide, and one even dressed in the
           | armor of a medieval knight. The golfers' faces were painted
           | in outrageous patterns, like a troupe of carnival performers,
           | all howling and shouting in a language unintelligible to the
           | uninitiated, as they approached the tee box like a raiding
           | party from a wilder world than that of the manicured course
           | they terrorized, screeching and yammering, their clothing
           | billowing behind them like smoke from some infernal realm."
        
             | ckw wrote:
             | A phalanx of mace-wielders, legioned by the dozens, swathed
             | in interlocking geometries of archaic clan and tribal
             | shroud, donned in specters of yesteryears garb. Upon crowns
             | they bore the half moons of sun-shielders, hands sheathed
             | in the callused gloves bearing the earthen residue of the
             | wars waged on emerald fields. Some festooned in old world
             | breeches and shapeshifter's bonnets, others in the blaring
             | colors of plebeian polo and desert-dusted shorts. Among
             | these warriors, a solitary figure, a shielder of storms,
             | his trusty parasol held high. Another's lower limbs swathed
             | in ghostly shroud, baptized by the verdant life of the
             | fields. And still another, a tragic bride, her veil
             | sanguinary from the love-feast unholy. Feathers plucked
             | from the winged ones adorned the headgear of some, the
             | rawhide caps of others akin to the primal trophies of
             | untamed hunts. A lone paladin armored in the steel and iron
             | of yore. Faces beneath this motley parade painted in the
             | ghastly festival hues of the carnivalesque. A cacophony of
             | unknown tongues ricocheted, a grotesque operetta resounding
             | in the ears of those unversed. As they approached the
             | maiden's tee, they were as a raiding horde birthed from
             | some primeval chaos, an epoch more untamed than the
             | manicured world they stormed upon. The shrill discordance
             | of their cries echoing, their raiments in their wake,
             | whispering tales of an infernal dimension, billowing like
             | the smoky breath of the underworld's beast.
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | oAlbe wrote:
         | At risk of sounding stupid in public, what does that epilogue
         | mean? I've read it several times now, and aside from being
         | surprised at how fluid it still reads despite the parsimonious
         | use of punctuation, I really can't figure out what it's talking
         | about.
        
           | williamcotton wrote:
           | I've always interpreted it as post holes as they fence in and
           | close the Wild West.
           | 
           |  _He uses an implement with two handles and he chucks it into
           | the hole and he enkindles the stone in the hole with his
           | steel hole by hole striking the fire out of the rock which
           | God has put there_
           | 
           | A post hole digger has two handles. When you're using it in
           | rocky ground you hit rocks and make sparks.
           | 
           | Picture:
           | 
           | https://images.homedepot-
           | static.com/productImages/ed49f7f1-a...
        
             | robbintt wrote:
             | It is also related to the judge's quest to name all things.
             | The relationship is measurement, a fundamentally human
             | activity... or perhaps fundamental to the way our
             | civilization is doing human.
        
             | bamfly wrote:
             | I'm quite sure he means a post-hole digger. I can
             | practically _smell_ the odor of digging in rocky soil with
             | those, coming off the page, almost feel the cracked dust-
             | sweat-caked knuckles of setting posts on a hot, dry day.
             | 
             | [EDIT] As for the rest, putting aside metaphorical
             | readings, the clockwork-like progression and repeated
             | crossing of the line of holes calls to mind the stop-and-
             | start movement of running barbed wire and working a
             | ratcheting tensioner tool behind the one digging the holes,
             | and in the right country, the curious among those workers
             | may pause to reflect on the remains of long-dead things
             | (fossils, "bones"--fish, horse, bison, mammoth, spine-like
             | crinoid stems, shells and coral from an eons-dead sea, even
             | dinosaurs--the ranches and farms of the West largely sit
             | atop the shallow graves of life's history on Earth) sitting
             | flat in the dirt or exposed by the digging, while others
             | may pay them no mind. There's definitely a defensible
             | reading of this as _on the surface_ a plain, if oblique,
             | description of a work crew running a fence line--not just
             | the one digging the holes, but the whole set of folks
             | described. I 'd wager that's what's intended (though not
             | the only thing intended), in fact.
        
             | OfSanguineFire wrote:
             | Yeah, the interpretation of that scene as an elegy of the
             | end of the "wild West" through fencing, feels obvious if
             | the reader has read what McCarthy wrote next after _Blood
             | Meridian_ : the Border Trilogy, where some 20th-century
             | Texas romantics are already dealing with that fencing-off.
        
           | csharpminor wrote:
           | It's often interpreted as a critique of manifest destiny, the
           | idea that settlers were destined to expand across North
           | America. He's describing that westward expansion in abstract
           | terms.
           | 
           | The man digging holes is a pioneer. McCarthy isn't really
           | clear on what he does; intentionally so. He might be digging
           | fence holes, making campfires, building railroad tracks - it
           | doesn't really matter.
           | 
           | The wanderers are the settlers following the pioneer
           | westward. They appear to be coordinated by some force, like
           | the pieces of a clock. This is arguably the "go west"
           | attitude of manifest destiny.
           | 
           | "...they appear restrained by a prudence or reflectiveness
           | which has no inner reality" is McCarthy's true criticism of
           | manifest destiny. Retrospectively, we glorify settlement of
           | the west and slot it into a clean narrative or progress. But
           | in its time, the expansion was chaotic, violent and devoid of
           | morals. People were just walking hole-to-hole for the sake of
           | finding the next hole.
           | 
           | Some wanderers collect bones and some don't. Perhaps McCarthy
           | means that some wanderers kill, but we don't know. From
           | McCarthy's nihilistic viewpoint it doesn't matter because the
           | westward expansion is moral-less so killing someone isn't
           | different from collecting bones on the ground.
           | 
           | This contrasts with the moral good vs. evil narrative usually
           | applied to the old west (see anything written on cowboys vs.
           | indians, sheriff vs. bandits, etc.) McCarthy portrays the old
           | west outside of a moral framework. Horrific violence happens
           | and there's no explanation or justification.
        
             | csharpminor wrote:
             | I'll just add: in my own opinion this epilogue is a bit of
             | literary trickery. Like the past, it's difficult to parse.
             | As the epilogue, it naturally occupies a place of
             | significance. This must be the key to understanding Blood
             | Meridian!
             | 
             | But after wracking your brain trying to decrypt the
             | message, you realize that it just says there is no greater
             | meaning to the violence of the book. It is just people
             | doing things on a vast plain.
             | 
             | It's almost as though McCarthy is saying to us, "See?
             | You're still looking for a deeper meaning that does not
             | exist."
        
               | dclowd9901 wrote:
               | I'm about halfway through this book and I'd say this is a
               | very apt explanation, but a bit handwavey.
               | 
               | McCarthy seemed to deal _absurdly well_ in the banality
               | of the pitches of life, both high and low. One always
               | leads to another. It's a sort of nihilism but with a
               | karmic baseline. Reading his prose I got the sense I
               | shouldn't make much out of anything, but all the same, it
               | still happened and is worth talking about.
        
               | csharpminor wrote:
               | Yes, I think the detail and lyricism of the prose
               | intentionally causes us to look for a moral framework for
               | the story.
               | 
               | Many readers feel cognitive dissonance from this book:
               | there's so much detail, it must add up to some moral
               | lesson. You'll hear people say, "Blood Meridian is an
               | amazing book, but I don't understand it."
               | 
               | They're still trying to apply a moral label to the story
               | and can't find one. To quote The Judge, "Your heart's
               | desire is to be told some mystery. The mystery is that
               | there is no mystery."
               | 
               | McCarthy's message in Blood Meridian may be that we see a
               | higher fidelity picture of the old west if we don't
               | attempt to fit events into a moral arc. Still worth
               | discussing, but we must abandon good vs. evil as a
               | framework if we want a glimpse at the truth of what
               | happened.
        
             | aagha wrote:
             | I'd like to say that this is one of the best explanations
             | of the epilogue I've ever read. Thank you.
        
             | inphusorian wrote:
             | When I read it without any context I could see the dawn of
             | human civilization (and progress) in it as well (you can
             | think that the man is trying to make fire, for example). I
             | guess the vagueness allows for many interpretations and the
             | parallelism between these interpretations gives a sense of
             | profoundness. I wonder if the ancient texts, like Torah or
             | Daode Jing, were written with the same intent :?
        
             | airtonix wrote:
             | [dead]
        
           | kkwteh wrote:
           | I read on Twitter that it's a reference to the introduction
           | of barbed wire fencing that marked the end of the wild era
           | that the book was set in. It makes sense but I never looked
           | into it.
        
           | dvt wrote:
           | Not stupid at all! There's a long tradition of figuring out
           | what it _means_ (just google  "Blood Meridian epilogue"), but
           | the short answer is that McCarthy was probably playing around
           | with ideas, having a bit of fun, waxing poetic. But there's
           | some elements in the passage about determinism, causality,
           | exploitation, the man with the instrument being a "pioneer"
           | of the American West, the holes being railroad tracks, or
           | fence posts, or mine stake poles (referencing the imminent
           | gold rush), etc.
           | 
           | Like like with all poetry, it's a joy to think about and
           | dissect.
        
             | mcbutterbunz wrote:
             | I'm not a strong reader and Blood Meridian took me a few
             | times to read and appreciate. I just remember thinking how
             | crazy it was that almost the entire page was a single run-
             | on sentence. I really liked the book but it was difficult
             | for me to read and understand.
        
               | spaceman_2020 wrote:
               | If you like that kind of writing, you would enjoy "Autumn
               | of the Patriarch". Probably Marquez's best prose work.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | Samuel Delany also has that fever dream wandering style
               | of prose for me.
        
               | winnit wrote:
               | Or Wyndham Lewis's 'The Childermass', which is 300 pages
               | odd without chapters, just one continuous chunk of prose.
        
               | JackFr wrote:
               | Stephen had a great quote - which I cannot find tonight -
               | that Cormac McCarthy was like some pop music. It was ok
               | to like it even if you couldn't make out every lyric.
        
               | hipsterstal1n wrote:
               | I'm right there with you. It was definitely a difficult
               | read and I often found myself going back a few pages and
               | re-reading sections. Many times.
        
               | l33tbro wrote:
               | Some say it's more like approaching poetry than prose
               | with his work. There is certainly causality and narrative
               | development in his writing, but he often uses his
               | magisterial command of language to impart a cosmic
               | dimension to the simplest of instances or utterances.
        
               | dclowd9901 wrote:
               | It's not all like that. Just the things that can't
               | suitably be explained as events. The native assault on
               | the brigade comes to mind. How could you adequately
               | describe such an event with words. It's a horror poem in
               | the way he writes it and if you haven't read it, it is as
               | chilling as it sounds.
        
               | hiyer wrote:
               | It's a great book, but it was depressing enough the first
               | time I read it. I can't imagine reading it several times
               | :(
        
               | 8bitsrule wrote:
               | My reaction to McCarthy has been similar. After trying a
               | couple of his works, my reaction was that he was
               | primarily focussed on the nasty side of humanity. We
               | people can be nasty, but - like much of today's news - he
               | fails to balance that with our positives. There are a lot
               | of grays between black and white. Great authors manage to
               | show them all.
        
               | Timon3 wrote:
               | I am actually not sure. I used to agree, but I've found
               | that the best stories I've read use the good and
               | beautiful moments primarily to make the bad moments hit
               | that much harder. That doesn't mean there aren't good
               | stories focussing on balance, but I'd be surprised if
               | there is as much to explore there as there is in the
               | depths of both good and bad.
               | 
               | My foremost example here would be _Berserk_.
        
               | anthonypasq wrote:
               | bizarrely reductive take. You think every piece of art
               | should try to represent the entire spectrum of human
               | emotion?
        
               | defen wrote:
               | _Suttree_ is your best bet if that 's what you're after.
        
           | zerbinxx wrote:
           | There a couple themes in this particular passage that really
           | come through to me: steel/fire/stone, the holes in the earth
           | being a "path", the wanderers following a command they can't
           | comprehend. To me it evokes it's a commentary on the weary
           | fatalism of westward expansion, the grim
           | meaninglessness/banality of evil of the nascent industrial
           | revolution. I really love the idea of those exploring the
           | west as a gang of bone-collectors, which tracks with BM's
           | ghastly but realistic scalp economy.
        
             | dclowd9901 wrote:
             | I get the sense that McCarthy didn't just find banality in
             | evil but also in beauty and good. Not that they were bad
             | things (any more than "banal evil" is a good thing) but
             | more that they just _are_. His storytelling always felt to
             | me like an illustration of "how can you know what's bad or
             | good in the grand scheme?"
        
           | whiddershins wrote:
           | The man is digging post holes, which means he is putting up a
           | fence.
           | 
           | By putting up a fence he alters so many things about the
           | land, in a profound way, and the others who occupy that land
           | have a relationship and reaction to this fence.
           | 
           | Edit: maybe it isn't a fence. Could be set up for a railway?
           | Or something else like early poles for wires for
           | communication?
           | 
           | I've read a lot of McCarthy but not Blood Meridian
        
           | jvanderbot wrote:
           | I'm sure it's something horrible and violent, like the rest
           | of that book. I go back and read the ending (in addition to
           | the epilogue) periodically trying to convince myself of one
           | particular version of the ending and main character, or
           | another.
        
           | jollyllama wrote:
           | Siblings talking about the closing of the American West are
           | correct but that's _not_ sufficient; you have to extrapolate
           | it out to the existential scale that Blood Meridian grapples
           | with. He 's critiquing the notion of "progress" as a whole,
           | favoring instead a view of humanity stumbling through history
           | and all which that entails.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | korse wrote:
           | Haven't read McCarthy, however it sounds like a pretty bleak
           | take on westward expansion of the United States across the
           | North American continent / high plains. The hole, steel and
           | fire metaphor brings to mind the process by which rail lines,
           | telegraph runs and extractive industries are established.
           | Those seeking bones brings to mind the search for grounds in
           | which to establish extractive industries concerned with oil
           | and some chemical precursors.
           | 
           | Then the rest follow blindly not truly knowing why and
           | getting stuck with the destruction/dregs/etc.
           | 
           | If that is what is going on, I can't really argue about it
           | however I'll take the more joyous propaganda tyvm.
        
           | windowshopping wrote:
           | I'm glad you asked, the responses were really interesting. I
           | wasn't sure what it meant either and now I can get even more
           | out of reading it.
        
         | narrator wrote:
         | I'm confused why The Road is said to be such great literature.
         | Half the book is " Kid: Daddy, I'm scared. Dad: Don't be
         | scared. " What's really funny is how it has become an all
         | purpose meme for a bad future if we don't go along with
         | whatever the latest political program is.
         | 
         | Klaus Schwab even references it in his recent book "The Grand
         | Narrative" as an alternative future that will come to pass if
         | we don't do everything right even though the future disaster,
         | from the hints given in The Road, is clearly not climate
         | change.
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | I don't think it is generally considered to be as great as
           | his other works like Blood Meridian, Suttree, and All the
           | Pretty Horses. It's just his most popular.
        
         | dbtc wrote:
         | Read it from the pulpit! Thanks for sharing the quote.
        
         | javier2 wrote:
         | I like that you enjoy this, but it gives me absolutely nothing.
         | And I do find that interesting.
        
         | williamcotton wrote:
         | Do yourself a favor and read that prose out loud to yourself.
         | It has amazing rhythm and flow! How he was able to do this for
         | page after page is just astonishing.
        
           | registeredcorn wrote:
           | I don't wish to be too dismissive, but I listened to the
           | audiobook for Blood Meridian and found it to be noticeably
           | boring. There were some neat phrases here and there, the
           | descriptions were fun, but felt pretty ripped off of both
           | time and money.
           | 
           | It's frustrating because I generally like writing in a
           | similar manner to how he wrote, but I found it incredibly
           | dull to listen to for any length of time. It was just this
           | meandering mess of "here and there" without anything to pay
           | attention to, or have a need to care for. It wasn't that I
           | hated it, I just didn't like it either. I was entirely
           | indifferent to it, other than a vague sense of politely
           | waiting for it to end. I didn't feel I lost much by listening
           | to it, but had nothing to gain either. It was just a
           | distraction of other things I could have been listening to
           | instead.
        
       | scop wrote:
       | A phenomenal artist. Thank you Cormac for bringing honest beauty
       | to my life.
       | 
       | Some of my past HN comments re McCarthy:
       | 
       | -
       | 
       | When I read both Melville and McCarthy, I'll often find myself
       | mid-run-on-sentence and think to myself, "welp, he's gone too far
       | this time" only to find, by golly, they pull it off in the end.
       | What would otherwise be complete pretension and chaos is, when
       | wrought by true literature artists, simply breathtaking. There
       | are times when I'm reading McCarthy and I literally, out loud,
       | utter "Lord have mercy" for the beauty/fullness/meaning that man
       | can lay upon us.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | This quote from Blood Meridian is one of my favorite in all of
       | literature and I think capture McCarthy's magic. He has such
       | great talent to describe simultaneously with vivid details yet
       | inexact clarity/meaning.
       | 
       | > It was the judge and the imbecile. They were both of them naked
       | and they neared through the desert dawn like beings of a mode
       | little more than tangential to the world at large, their figures
       | now quick with clarity and now fugitive in the strangeness of
       | that same light. Like things so charged with meaning that their
       | forms are dimmed.
        
       | tehnub wrote:
       | Here's a nice essay from Harold Bloom on Blood Meridian (FYI:
       | Full of spoilers):
       | 
       | https://lithub.com/harold-bloom-on-cormac-mccarthy-true-heir...
        
       | whiddershins wrote:
       | Although the preface to Suttree is my favorite, the preface to
       | The Passenger is beyond the best:
       | 
       | * It had snowed lightly in the night and her frozen hair was gold
       | and crystalline and her eyes were frozen cold and hard as stones.
       | One of her yellow boots had fallen off and stood in the snow
       | beneath her. The shape of her coat lay dusted in the snow where
       | she'd dropped it and she wore only a white dress and she hung
       | among the bare gray poles of the winter trees with her head bowed
       | and her hands turned slightly outward like those of certain
       | ecumenical statues whose attitude asks that their history be
       | considered. That the deep foundation of the world be considered
       | where it has its being in the sorrow of her creatures. The hunter
       | knelt and stogged his rifle upright in the snow beside him and
       | took off his gloves and let them fall and folded his hands one
       | upon the other. He thought that he should pray but he'd no prayer
       | for such a thing. He bowed his head. Tower of Ivory, he said.
       | House of Gold. He knelt there for a long time. When he opened his
       | eyes he saw a small shape half buried in the snow and he leaned
       | and dusted away the snow and picked up a gold chain that held a
       | steel key, a whitegold ring. He slipped them into the pocket of
       | his huntingcoat. He'd heard the wind in the night. The wind's
       | work. A trashcan clattering over the bricks behind his house. The
       | snow blowing out there in the forest in the dark. He looked up
       | into those cold enameled eyes glinting blue in the weak winter
       | light. She had tied her dress with a red sash so that she'd be
       | found. Some bit of color in the scrupulous desolation. On this
       | Christmas day. This cold and barely spoken Christmas day.*
        
         | tehnub wrote:
         | It hits even harder when you finish Stella Maris and consider
         | the significance of that red sash -- that she put it on despite
         | her despairing solipsism. It breaks your heart.
        
       | squeegee_scream wrote:
       | https://readingmccarthy.buzzsprout.com/
       | 
       | > READING MCCARTHY is a podcast devoted to the consideration and
       | discussion of the works of one of our greatest American writers,
       | Cormac McCarthy. Each episode will call upon different well-known
       | Cormackian readers and scholars to help us explore different
       | works and various essential aspects of McCarthy's writing.(Note
       | these episodes try to offer accessible literary criticism and may
       | contain spoilers from different McCarthy works.)
        
       | 2devnull wrote:
       | CAPS MATTER1
        
         | pizzafeelsright wrote:
         | Punctuation sentence structure not.
        
       | richardatlarge wrote:
       | I think McCarthy believed that telling a story and conventional
       | grammar had no necessary relationship. Whether you like few or
       | none of his novels, recognize that he was brave enough to forfeit
       | fame and fortune to tell the story he wanted to tell, and the way
       | he wanted to tell it. Fiction publishing today would squash CM
       | like a bug. That's the bad news
        
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