[HN Gopher] Pixelfed Introduces Import from Instagram
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       Pixelfed Introduces Import from Instagram
        
       Author : rapnie
       Score  : 155 points
       Date   : 2023-06-12 16:35 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pixelfed.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pixelfed.blog)
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | > you can seamlessly transfer your photos, captions, and even
       | hashtags
       | 
       | that's rich, given that nobody has posted photos, captions and
       | hashtags to their feed in 2 years
       | 
       | Its all in the ephemeral stories now, or the reels
       | 
       | Too late
        
         | 7v3x3n3sem9vv wrote:
         | good thing pixelfed supports stories
        
           | yieldcrv wrote:
           | They import old stories too? Import the highlight reel?
           | Crosspost the current story?
           | 
           | They could have included that in their blog post
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | > given that nobody has posted photos, captions and hashtags to
         | their feed in 2 years
         | 
         | Well, let me throw my anecdata hat into this ring and point out
         | that it is not "nobody" because I have a constantly refreshing
         | feed of people posting just those things every day.
        
           | monsieurgaufre wrote:
           | He may be exagerating, but it is also my experience. The only
           | "posts" i see are from entities that have something to sell.
           | The "regular" users just do stories now (probably because of
           | the disappearing nature of them). 2 anecdata, i guess.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | Yeah it was hyperbole based on that observation, I'm glad
             | someone that can relate chimed in
        
         | not2b wrote:
         | I regularly post photos from my hikes to Instagram. I've never
         | used the story feature. But I've been accused of being a nobody
         | before.
         | 
         | I might consider importing them to Pixelfed, but only a few
         | friends are in the fediverse now, and most aren't.
        
         | mym1990 wrote:
         | Photos are alive and well on IG, not sure if you are thinking
         | of a different app.
        
           | kredd wrote:
           | Depends on the generation, but it's "not cool" to post photos
           | like we used to do it every week or so in my generation
           | (younger millennials / older gen-z). I've seen some people
           | doing once every month, quarter, or life altering events to
           | give a big "fan out" news to their friends, but that's it.
        
             | monsieurgaufre wrote:
             | It's what i'm seeing as well. In my circle, IG is used to
             | share memes and very rarely personal news (except for the
             | oversharers).
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | I'm a big fan of liberating data (especially my own!) from walled
       | gardens, but I have to assume that whatever they're doing is
       | against Instagram's terms and Instagram will do everything to
       | stop/break this.
        
         | naillo wrote:
         | The startup strategy of knowingly breaking laws for brand
         | awareness and picking up some users like this and then removing
         | it once you get caught.
        
           | zeruch wrote:
           | I guess its good they arent a startup then?
        
           | DANmode wrote:
           | They have an app that federates with ActivityPub/Mastadon,
           | not a startup (that I have seen).
        
         | hospitalJail wrote:
         | >walled gardens
         | 
         | This is marketing speak. Do not call it walled gardens. Called
         | it curated, fixed, whatever.
         | 
         | Gardens have delicious fruits, vegetables, and beautiful
         | flowers. It creates a positive emotional spin on what is
         | otherwise something bad for consumers.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | Clearly you've not seen most gardens.
        
         | helsinkiandrew wrote:
         | Instagram (Facebook graph) API allows extraction of data and
         | "Sharing to/from other platforms" is (currently) an accepted
         | use.
        
         | not2b wrote:
         | It would appear that you assume incorrectly. Instagram will let
         | you dump all your data into a JSON. All Pixelfed is doing is
         | reading that JSON. Pixelfed has no contract with Meta that
         | would block them from reading in that JSON.
        
           | smashah wrote:
           | > Pixelfed has no contract with Meta
           | 
           | As a victim of Meta's Cease and Desists for open-wa, the
           | contract terms is in the Terms of Service that anyone
           | associated with Pixelfed, or anyone associated with the
           | development of Pixelfed has ever accepted regardless if it's
           | a personal or testing account.
           | 
           | In these ToS agreements, Meta believes they can prevent
           | anyone making any tools that they deem break any of their
           | ridiculous terms of service.
           | 
           | I literally had to stop working on my OSS project/tool due to
           | this bullying. Unfortunately I, or other Devs, do not have
           | enough resources to fight this immoral megacorp so therefore
           | they win our compliance.
        
           | nfriedly wrote:
           | > Pixelfed has no contract with Meta that would block them
           | from reading in that JSON.
           | 
           | I think they're using OAuth to connect the accounts, and I
           | believe Meta requires developers click through some agreement
           | to do that.
           | 
           | Edit: I was wrong, see below.
        
             | Stephen304 wrote:
             | There is no oauth involved, the import works by requesting
             | your instagram zip archive and then selecting the
             | downloaded zip file in Pixelfed. You can check out the code
             | here: https://github.com/pixelfed/pixelfed/blob/dev/resourc
             | es/asse...
             | 
             | The neat thing is that it unzips the file locally and only
             | uploads the posts you select, which Dansup says helped get
             | around very large instagram archives and also means you
             | don't have to worry about posts you don't want imported
             | being sent to the pixelfed server.
        
         | zeruch wrote:
         | IG has to allow an export function, if nothing else to help
         | with compliance (e.g. CCPA) and in a digestible format. All PF
         | has done is built a parser for said JSON formatting.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | From what I read in another comment, it takes advantage of the
         | data export function Instagram themselves offer
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | Cool feature. But the blog post neglects to mention how to find
       | and use it.
        
       | davidmurdoch wrote:
       | The captcha to sign up shows AI-generated images and asks things
       | like "select images of a dog" but there are zero dogs, just dog
       | approximations. I really hope these identifications won't be used
       | as training data.
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | Pick the pixels that came from a dog.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | infinityio wrote:
         | hCaptcha has been doing this for a few months now to my
         | knowledge - I'm guessing this is being used to train a CLIP-
         | like system (or alternatively: it might just be that poorly
         | generated ai images are the best candidate for a captcha in the
         | age of modern subject recognition, it's hard to know)
        
       | ZacnyLos wrote:
       | Gamechanger
        
       | andrewshadura wrote:
       | Countdown to Instagram banning this: 9... 8... 7...
        
         | ZacnyLos wrote:
         | Insta has to comply with European law.
        
       | dchuk wrote:
       | I feel like all of these decentralized attempts to respond to the
       | ills of social media/social products are going to never make it
       | out of the curious POC phase simply because the vast vast
       | majority of people do not care about hosting their own instances
       | or owning their data to that degree.
       | 
       | When it comes down to it, there are 3 key issues with the
       | "traditional" model of social products:
       | 
       | You are the product - This is true of 1) your data you put into
       | the system explicitly, 2) the data you create by using the
       | system, and 3) the predominant business model (ads) of these
       | products. This could be fixed by:
       | 
       | 1) some easy means to extract all data you create in an
       | accessible format (only some users will care about this)
       | 
       | 2 & 3) Allowing people the choice of whether they are the product
       | or not. "Subscribe for no ads" seems like a good middle path
       | alternative to selling ads without demanding a whole new
       | architecture and operational model for federated solutions.
       | 
       | Separate of the above ideas is the fact that social products are
       | really addiction mechanisms. Reddit/Hacker News/Tik Tok/Instagram
       | are all heavily optimized to addict their users to their product.
       | This is, in my opinion, where the real risk lies overall, because
       | it is directly leading to aggressive micro feedback loops and
       | information bubbles that are evolving faster than humans can
       | process. I'm not sure what to do about this problem save for
       | outright control/limitation attempts, which seems like a
       | guaranteed mess.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | > _Allowing people the choice of whether they are the product
         | or not. "Subscribe for no ads" seems like a good middle path
         | alternative to selling ads without demanding a whole new
         | architecture and operational model for federated solutions._
         | 
         | The main problem with social media as it exists today is not
         | advertising (as much as I despise advertising), but the toxic,
         | addictive, engagement-at-all-costs nature of how the
         | information is presented.
         | 
         | I agree with you that most people don't care about their data
         | ownership/privacy to the point that they'll host their own
         | instances. And if they don't do that, then they are beholden to
         | whatever "algorithms" the centralized players want to use to
         | ensure high levels of engagement that keep people on the
         | site/app, and coming back to the site/app.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | But it's the advertising that drives all of the stuff you do
           | hate.
           | 
           | When a business is ad-driven, human attention is the raw
           | crude that it harvests to turn into a product (ad
           | impressions) that it then generates revenue from. The more
           | attention it can siphon up, the more ad impressions it can
           | deliver and the more money the business makes.
           | 
           | Does your coffee maker chime every twenty minutes to
           | helpfully suggest you might want another coffee? No, of
           | course not. Because the people who made that coffee maker
           | already got as much money from you as they're gonna get when
           | you bought it. As long as you're happy enough with it to not
           | switch to the competition, they _don 't care how much you use
           | it_. They get no additional revenue from your additional use.
           | 
           | With ad-driven businesses, every user is a potentially
           | inexhaustible source of future attention, which is what
           | drives all of these toxic user experience choices.
        
         | muglug wrote:
         | The vast majority of users absolutely don't care about data
         | residency or "privacy", however you interpret that word. You
         | can convince individuals to care, but good luck convincing a
         | large group.
         | 
         | What can happen (and has happened) is that the existing thing
         | becomes just toxic enough to lessen the pull and invite
         | alternatives. For the tech communities I've been a part of this
         | has happened a number of times in the history of the web -- off
         | the top of my head:
         | 
         | * ExpertsExchange -> StackOverflow
         | 
         | * IE 6 -> Firefox
         | 
         | * Twitter -> Mastodon
         | 
         | In all cases the migration was driven by software engineers'
         | disgust with the platform. The current Twitter -> Mastodon
         | migration is mostly just folks in tech, but there are enough of
         | us to forge decent-sized communities there.
        
           | copperx wrote:
           | Wait, does Mastodon have traction?
        
             | yborg wrote:
             | Relative to what? It currently has ~1.2M monthly active
             | users, or less than 0.5% of Twitter. It's probably 20x the
             | active user base of IRC.
        
             | ImaCake wrote:
             | It has enough traction that it's a vibrant set of
             | communities. I use it to share bird photos, talk about
             | adhd/autism, and follow some climate science. Its smaller
             | than twitter, but its big enough to work now.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | And yet, today Firefox has single-digit-percent market share,
           | and the dominant player is in some ways worse than Microsoft
           | was. MS seemed to want to make the web stagnate, while Google
           | wants to turn the web into (more of) a privacy-free,
           | advertising machine, and has been steering web standards in
           | that direction.
           | 
           | Google allows Firefox to exist (by funding Mozilla via
           | Firefox's default search engine) only so they can point to
           | the fact that there are alternatives, with alternative
           | rendering engines.
           | 
           | It is unclear if Mastodon will actually replace Twitter. I'm
           | skeptical. I think Twitter would have to actually fail (as
           | in, go bankrupt, or at least have such severe technical
           | uptime/stability issues) before the platform would be
           | abandoned enough to definitively say Mastodon won.
           | 
           | ExpertsExchange -> SO mainly happened because all the decent
           | answers on EE were hidden behind a paywall.
        
           | jxf wrote:
           | ExpertsExchange was before my time, but was it "toxic" or was
           | it just simply not as good?
        
             | ascagnel_ wrote:
             | It was significantly less useful -- answers were behind a
             | paywall.
        
         | rainonmoon wrote:
         | Hosting your own instance isn't a requirement for joining any
         | of the alternatives I've seen so far (e.g. Bluesky, Mastodon,
         | Lemmy etc.) but I'm open to being corrected if you've seen this
         | stipulated. As for the rest of this comment, it's really
         | predicated on certain ideas about what websites _have_ to be
         | based on what they have been over the past 15 years. In fact it
         | 's highly possible to participate in community-run efforts that
         | aren't driven by profit incentives, which also don't aspire to
         | drive addiction.
        
         | interroboink wrote:
         | While I am also not very bullish on any fedi-xyz that requires
         | special extra effort from users, I think there's another
         | problem with the current popular schemes that makes your (2&3)
         | solution problematic: money incentives, over time.
         | 
         | Even if a company today were to offer "subscribe for no ads", I
         | don't have especially great confidence that it will stay that
         | way, or that the quality of the product will be maintained over
         | time. Fundamentally, if you have a situation where making money
         | is the goal (whether via ads or subscriptions, etc), then that
         | is the goal that will be pursued. But a healthy community is
         | _not_ about money.
         | 
         | One way to "keep the money-grubbing company honest", as it
         | were, is to have genuine competition. Maybe there are other
         | good ways, but that's at least one. There needs to be an
         | existential threat to that company, at all times, that its
         | users (and thus revenue) could leave and go somewhere else. A
         | federated approach at least somewhat pushes things in that
         | direction. I'm curious to see how much traction it gains.
         | 
         | Maybe there could be a non-profit approach. Or maybe "online
         | community as a public utility" approach; I really don't know.
         | But the money-driven incentive tends to be a slow poison, I
         | think.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | > Update your Pixelfed app or access the web version to take
       | advantage of this groundbreaking feature today!
       | 
       | Impressive. I also appreciate supporting both web and app
       | version.
       | 
       | Did anyone try it out already? I'd love to hear more about how it
       | worked it practice.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | > Did anyone try it out already? I'd love to hear more about
         | how it worked it practice.
         | 
         | Just tried it but it's not a direct import - it's "dump your
         | data from Instagram as JSON[1] and we'll import that JSON".
         | i.e. a one-off backup restore.
         | 
         | (If ActivityPub allowed backdated posts, I'd do the sync myself
         | from my instaloader downloads but alas, most servers do not.)
         | 
         | [1] "It may take up to 14 days to collect this information and
         | send it to you."
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | Nothing in ActivityPub cares about whether a post is back
           | dated. How would it even know? Maybe it's just an old post.
        
             | zimpenfish wrote:
             | Apologies, should have been clearer that it's the MastoAPI
             | which has no concept of backdated posts - or even of
             | creating dated posts at all. [1] has no `created_at` or any
             | other (useful) timestamp. Hence having to local-patch my
             | Akkoma to allow passing `created_at` for my backfill needs.
             | 
             | [1] https://docs.joinmastodon.org/methods/statuses/#create
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | Got my download - 2.4GB. Uploaded it - Safari chugs badly
           | here.
           | 
           | If you leave that tab at all, it breaks and restarts which
           | cancels the import process.
           | 
           | Once it's uploaded the file, Pixelfed wants you to tap each
           | image you want to import in a 3-wide scrolling grid and
           | there's no "select all" I can see. Plus it is now DOG SLOW.
           | 
           | I have 9052 Instagram posts. Bugger that, frankly, because
           | I'm not spending upwards of 3 hours clicking on a web page to
           | import photos.
           | 
           | In summary - nice idea badly implemented.
           | 
           | [edit: Tried it in Chrome. Upload is much smoother and more
           | reliable but still no "select all" and it still chugs like a
           | 1970s PC - a good 30s between clicking and the image being
           | selected.]
        
           | Stephen304 wrote:
           | It looks like the instagram->pixelfed import actually
           | preserves the original post's date. Dansup imported a post
           | from 2016 and it shows up as "7y ago" in my mastodon UI.
        
             | zimpenfish wrote:
             | Oh yeah, if you have direct access to the database /
             | backend admin (as I'm sure this importer does), you can
             | frob things to get the correct dates and avoid pushing them
             | out as new posts. Just not possible via the standard APIs
             | at the moment (I had to patch my Akkoma to allow
             | backfilling of posts from certain accounts.)
        
         | james_pm wrote:
         | Trying it now...it will only let you import 100 photos at a
         | time, and you need to single select each one (My Instagram has
         | hundreds and hundreds of photos going back a decade).
         | 
         | So far nothing has actually imported. Not sure how long I
         | should wait.
        
         | ZacnyLos wrote:
         | I have to admit their UX and UI are superior among all
         | fediverse apps.
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | nice
        
       | greedo wrote:
       | I've been using Pixelfed since I discovered it after Elon bought
       | Twitter. It's helped me get back into photography and I post
       | daily. Of course the userbase is tiny compared to Insta, but I
       | don't care.
        
         | zeruch wrote:
         | I'd rather grown a small but sincerely interested community
         | around my work, than a large, mostly indifferent one.
         | 
         | When I was still active on DeviantArt regularly, but before I
         | got Gallery Director status (2004-2008 ish) I sold little
         | prints, but consistently. After GD, I overall sold about
         | double, but the interaction was like an EKG, and full of noise
         | and stupid complaints and random stats-whoring from commenters.
         | It felt like too much of a rollercoaster managing whatever
         | turdstorm may or may not arise.
         | 
         | I'm still trying to bootstrap a regular pace with PF, as I'm
         | still a very active IG user, but I may just test out if the
         | Import function can handle JSON file with over 10K posts...
        
           | greedo wrote:
           | Yeah, I joke with my daughters that I have EIGHT followers,
           | and my financial windfall is just around the corner.
           | 
           | I used to do quite a bit of photog and even majored in
           | visarts, but lost interest until recently. Nice to have
           | something simple like daily posting reinvigorate an old
           | interest. It's like writers who have to write every day.
           | After a while you get decent at it.
        
             | zeruch wrote:
             | I started posting my art online 20 years ago with
             | DeviantArt and my original blogging efforts, but it was
             | predicated on the fact that I had an art practice for my
             | own edification, so the online part just became an adjunct
             | aspect. I was "gonna art" regardless, so why not syndicate
             | what that is, regardless of what it generates.
             | 
             | Keeping that attitude has been healthy in terms of what I
             | produce, but I do find that I would prefer to be using a
             | service that allows for some actual community elements,
             | which DevArt has allowed to go fallow, and other sites
             | never quite had (e.g. Society6) but at least have good
             | artist services (e.g. prints)
        
       | nfriedly wrote:
       | That's awesome, congrats Pixelfed team!
       | 
       | The next thing I'd like to see is a way to make it ongoing -
       | specifically I'd like to have a automatically updated backup of
       | my wife's Instagram account. She posts a lot of things that are
       | relevant to our family, and it'd be nice to know we'll still have
       | it even if something were to happen to her account.
       | 
       | It also sounds like Stories are not currently imported. That
       | makes sense for a one-time import since they are meant to be
       | ephemeral, but for an ongoing importer/backup, it would be nice
       | to capture those as well.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | > specifically I'd like to have a automatically updated backup
         | of my wife's Instagram account.
         | 
         | Instaloader is pretty good for backing up Instagram accounts
         | but it's easy to trigger Instagram's anti-bot protections using
         | it. I use a secondary account to avoid locking out my main and
         | even then it took ~4 days to download my 9k posts because of
         | the lockouts and rate-limiting. But once you've got the main
         | bulk down, you can run it once a day to fill in anything new
         | and that's pretty reliable.
        
           | nfriedly wrote:
           | Thanks, I'll try that out.
        
       | Kab1r wrote:
       | The thing that annoys me is that there is no propper way (at
       | least to my knowledge) to run multiple linked fedi accounts. I
       | have a selfhosted misskey instance, but then should I also run
       | pixelfed? Or should I just use the singular instance?
        
         | tedunangst wrote:
         | Everyone just has multiple accounts, but I'd say it still works
         | better than having separate twitter, instagram, reddit, and
         | youtube accounts. You may need a peertube account to post a
         | video, but just about anyone can comment if they like. Can't
         | comment on a youtube video from twitter.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | To be fair, you can comment on a Twitter video from Twitter
           | :-)
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I have the same problem. I would love to be able to toot from
         | mastodon and post videos from PeerTube to the same account.
         | Right now it is very segmented, even though most fediverse apps
         | can process incoming posts of various formats (so you can
         | follow PeerTube users from Mastodon no problem) but you can
         | only post a limited set of content. They have mixed identity
         | and applications.
        
           | iameli wrote:
           | This is where the Web3 ecosystem is ahead right now. One
           | address, log into a hundred different apps with the same
           | wallet identity.
        
         | 3np wrote:
         | I've been toying around with the idea of an ActivityPub
         | proxy/aggregator/delegation which would "front" all your
         | services and act as a unified identity for the proxied
         | instances.
         | 
         | It would inherently require trust, so the only way it would
         | scale beyond self-hosters controlling their own domain would be
         | co-hosted alongside some SSO-unified fedi services (or if S2S
         | delegation becomes an adopted thing).
         | 
         | (If you run with this idea, consider AGPL for all parts :))
        
       | ktosobcy wrote:
       | I wanted to use pixelfed (for my personal needs) but discovered
       | there is no easily deployable docker image so I gave up... shame.
        
       | Croftengea wrote:
       | TIL Pixelfed exists. It's a pretty small network though, they say
       | they have 163K users. They need some stupid Instagram policy
       | change to get more traction.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | With all due respect, I'm going to nitpick a portion of your
         | comment there... While the 163k users might accurately describe
         | pixelfed...that is, pixelfed users, that doesn't even begin to
         | describe "the network"... which is composed of millions of
         | fediverse users. Your comment was like saying that email is not
         | that big of a network because there are only X numbers of
         | thunderbird users. Again, all due respect. But pixelfed is only
         | one of many ways to be present on, and interact with millions
         | of people on the fediverse. ;-)
        
           | Croftengea wrote:
           | Point taken, thanks for explaining!
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | No. Pixelfed is part of the Fediverse. You can follow anyone
         | and be followed from Mastodon, Pleroma. This means that we have
         | already almost 10M users to interact with. [0]
         | 
         | Stop thinking in terms of silos and start embracing the re-
         | emergence of the World Wide Web.
         | 
         | [0] https://fedidb.org/
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | One of the cool benefits of federation. I've already seen a
           | bunch of Lemmy/kbin instances instantly have a bustling,
           | unique community because people could post to and follow
           | communities from Mastodon.
        
             | unshavedyak wrote:
             | Agreed. As a developer it's also a lot of fun because i can
             | toy with creating my own platform and depending on the
             | compatibility i choose to opt into -- ie
             | Mastodon/Lemmy/Kbin -- i get interop and i don't create a
             | silo. I absolutely love that.
             | 
             | I suspect there's tons of issues with ActivityPub, ranging
             | from inefficiency of synchronization to discovery of
             | instances, but those are things we can evolve for
             | ActivityPub.
             | 
             | But i absolutely adore that creating a new platform with
             | unique features can still be compatible with the larger
             | ecosystem. It's like creating a new Reddit client
             | (Apollo/etc) but it can have new features like shared
             | economy or integration to PixelFeed/Mastodon/etc.
             | 
             | Despite not loving some things i'm about inefficiencies
             | ActivityPub, i adore what it's giving us. I hope we run
             | with it.
        
           | colesantiago wrote:
           | Does Pixelfed have rigorous instance blocking?
           | 
           | I don't want the very nasty users of that 10M to interact
           | with me or my friends.
           | 
           | This is just opening everyone to harassment we didn't ask
           | for.
           | 
           | Just looking for an open source Instagram alternative to
           | convince my friends to move to.
        
             | ZacnyLos wrote:
             | If mods see harassment, they can block such user or use
             | broader preventive measures, including defederation. As
             | with any other Fediverse software.
        
             | rglullis wrote:
             | Instance blocking depends on the admin. If you are not
             | happy with the moderation of the instance you are on, you
             | can always host your own.
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-12 23:00 UTC)