[HN Gopher] The Bay Area German bar that brought down Apple's fa...
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       The Bay Area German bar that brought down Apple's famed iPhone
       security
        
       Author : wallflower
       Score  : 137 points
       Date   : 2023-06-10 14:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sfgate.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sfgate.com)
        
       | pyrophane wrote:
       | The only interesting part of this article to me is what happened
       | to Powell: he continued to work at Apple on iOS for another 7
       | years before leaving the company.
       | 
       | I also like this bit:
       | 
       | "Apple forced its own ban from the bar on Powell -- though it
       | doesn't sound like that ban was enforced very strictly."
       | 
       | I wonder what that looked like.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | Back when I joined Apple, this story was told in the
         | orientation training.
         | 
         | I remember some sketchy details to the story that seem to have
         | gone unmentioned but it has been a long time and I am very
         | unclear on the specifics so I will not mention them here.
         | Especially since Apple really cares about these kind of things.
        
       | eevilspock wrote:
       | @dang this is a clickbait title. "iPhone security" is entirely
       | misleading.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | temac wrote:
       | The notion that this was a "security breach" is weird. Did it
       | contain private keys to production apple servers?
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | The design was the big secret that all their security protocols
         | were supposed to protect.
         | 
         | Revealing the design was the security breach.
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | Their security protocols were pretty lax, if they allowed
           | someone to take a secret prototype to a bar, and to use it in
           | the bar.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | It had "development silicon" instead of "production silicon".
         | At the very very least that means you can use `sudo` and `su`
         | after logging in with the well known "alpine" credentials.
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | Security doesn't only have to imply software / online security.
         | There's physical security as well, which this seems to be
         | referring to.
        
         | Hydraulix989 wrote:
         | Physical security predates computer security by millennia
        
           | temac wrote:
           | The implication of a loss of a physical gadget, no matter the
           | hype that exists around it, has low intrinsincal security
           | severity. If the object could be otherwise used to have
           | severe impacts, that would be another story.
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | Companies have security protocols for whatever they want to
             | protect. What they consider protecting is their business.
             | New product prototypes, or just random possible product
             | explorations are a common example. And the protocols they
             | use (special enclosures, training people on how to not be
             | obvious) are figured out the same way they are in
             | computing, In fact the core terminology we use in computer
             | security comes from physical security.
             | 
             | And security protocols go back thousands of years. You can
             | read about them in ancient literature,
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | MAGZine wrote:
             | So leaks about future products isn't a security threat? I
             | think it is. That could definitely affect the stock price.
             | Depending on the leak, it could definitely be more of an
             | impact than a ip or data security breach. What will people
             | do with digitizer firmware source? Other than bad pr, what
             | affects does a data breach of customer records have on a
             | company?
        
               | gsich wrote:
               | Wouldn't call that security, no.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | It doesn't matter. Apple had IP they didn't want to leak,
               | and it got leaked. That alone was a security breach.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | It's interesting to look back at the commentary on HN from then:
       | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1323561600&dateRange=custom&...
        
       | jackfoxy wrote:
       | Redwood, California? Was this article written by ChatGPT? Did a
       | local human editor even read this?
        
         | mangosteenjuice wrote:
         | I can see how "Redwood City" could become "City of Redwood",
         | and then just "Redwood", through multiple steps. I had never
         | heard of it before moving to norcal.
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | Neil Young, who lives nearby, called it simply "Redwood" in
           | 1972's hit _Heart of Gold_. (I 've been to Hollywood; I've
           | been to Redwood.)
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | I see spelling mistakes all of the time in print media, and
         | they've had spellcheck for 30+ years.
        
         | ElfinTrousers wrote:
         | Do human editors catch every mistake? No.
        
       | jnsie wrote:
       | > One of the first things Volker did after navigating the throng
       | of TV reporters was email Jobs. "I email Steve, and I said,
       | 'Steve, this is what happened. What do you want me to do? Can you
       | please reach out and let me know? How do you want me to handle
       | the situation?'" he said, noting that Jobs' email was readily
       | available online.
       | 
       | Thought it a bit odd that one of the first things the bar owner
       | did was email Steve Jobs. Like...why?
        
       | phantom784 wrote:
       | Used to go there all the time - had no idea it was the bar where
       | the iPhone prototype was lost (which happened long before I moved
       | to the Bay).
        
       | KyeRussell wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Jon_Lowtek wrote:
       | > _the most infamous security breach_
       | 
       | The XcodeGhost supply chain attack by the CIA infected a hundred
       | million devices with malware. Quixun Zhaos chaos exploit chain
       | took full control over iPhones from a drive by on a website and
       | was used by china as part of the ugyhur genocide. And the
       | cyberwar mercenary group NSO keeps targeting journalists and
       | opposition around the world with what feels like an endless
       | supply of exploits for apple devices.
       | 
       | But somehow the hype for the iPhone4 starting three month earlier
       | than planned in 2010 is called the _" the most infamous"_. Apple
       | PR at it's best, telling people the worst that can happen is
       | loosing a phone at a bar.
        
         | lern_too_spel wrote:
         | Xcodeghost wasn't made by the CIA. It used a technique similar
         | to one described in leaked CIA documents, but the author was a
         | Chinese national.
        
         | mynameisvlad wrote:
         | "Infamous" has nothing to do with scale. It's entirely based on
         | how well known something is. This incident had worldwide
         | attention almost immediately and for weeks. Many articles were
         | written at the time, and followup articles since (some of which
         | are linked here). By all definitions of the word, it tracks.
        
           | Jon_Lowtek wrote:
           | Not all definitions. Mine may be a bit old school, meaning
           | publicly disgraced. Yours is more modern meaning slightly
           | embarrassing. Both share that fame means "being spoken of"
           | 
           | IMHO no one wants to be infamous, under the classical
           | definition. Infamous people have a search warrant by the
           | federal police. Infamous people are the ones your parents
           | tell you not to interact with.
           | 
           | No matter how often the "no bad PR" mantra is spoken, Steve
           | Wozniak isn't going to wear a t-shirt referencing what i
           | would consider their most infamous security breach. He isn't
           | gangster enough for a teardrop tattoo.
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | The definitions are irrelevant to the topic at hand, which
             | is that nobody seems to have heard of the attack.
             | 
             | Something can't be infamous (or regular famous) if nobody
             | has heard of it, and that's the issue people have with your
             | claim.
             | 
             | It might be a "publicly disgracing" attack but that alone
             | doesn't make it infamous. It still has to be well known,
             | and quite simply, the iPhone case is so well known that
             | it's practically impossible to beat.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Yeah, it was embarrassing overreaction by Apple. It was just
           | another iteration of the iPhone. This used to be a thing in
           | the auto industry, with reporters trying to get pictures of
           | new car styling. Now nobody cares. Same for phones. Version
           | N+1 has rounder corners. Big deal.
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | I've heard of the 2010 one, not the other you mentioned.
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | Infamous is about notoriety, not scale. It's not about what
         | happened, it's about who knows.
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | I had to read this sentence a few times before I realized it was
       | the decision and not the child: "My wife and I even decided to
       | have our third child on our way to a dinner at Gourmet Haus
       | Staudt."
        
         | ralph84 wrote:
         | My first read was that it was the copulation.
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | > "Powell kept his job in spite of the lost prototype and worked
       | on Apple's iOS software for another seven years before leaving
       | the company in 2017."
       | 
       | There's actually a photo, taken as a joke, by Steve Wozniak you
       | can find online. It shows him drinking a beer, holding an iPhone
       | in the other hand, and he's wearing a T-Shirt that reads: "I went
       | drinking with Gray Powell and all I got was a lousy iPhone
       | prototype."
       | 
       | https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/woz-has-fun-with-lea...
       | 
       | Thankfully, it appears Steve Jobs took his wrath out at Gizmodo
       | than Powell.
        
       | Hnrobert42 wrote:
       | The site guilted me into turning off my adblocker. I'm
       | sympathetic to local media outlets.
       | 
       | My god. That site is comically unusable. There is just no way to
       | read an their article in peace.
       | 
       | So when they, too, inevitably have to fold, let it be known, I
       | tried.
        
         | thebigwinning wrote:
         | You owe them nothing and the guilt you feel is an exploitation
         | of your courtesy.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | I had no problems using 1Blocker for iOS in Safari and no guilt
         | trip or ads.
        
         | samstave wrote:
         | Uh, I have ublock origin and such...
         | 
         | Site is clean as a whistle for me:
         | 
         | (zoomed all the way out so you can see the whole page:
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/I4EaG3A.png -
         | 
         | Edit: I appear to have "wooshed" the point... Sorry fam.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | So you didn't try at all.
        
         | mucle6 wrote:
         | I tried turning off Adblock and wow.... I didn't even mind the
         | ads, but the loading just never stopped. Some of the article
         | images wouldn't load because they were trying to load so many
         | ads.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | Try the EFF's Privacy Badger. I didn't see any ads there. Just
         | click "Continue without Disabling".
        
         | getcrunk wrote:
         | Man if y'all think this is bad try tom's hardware. It usually
         | crashes chrome on iOS for me after reloading on its own
        
         | rajbot wrote:
         | If you have an Apple News/One subscription you can read it as
         | this link. Much more readable, and the publisher still gets ad
         | revenue:
         | 
         | https://apple.news/AlNrxUYEHQPGfrBna1YfVqQ
        
           | annexrichmond wrote:
           | I had to delete Apple News because Apple was forcibly
           | inserting its own channels that I could not remove or say
           | "Not Interested", which you can normally do for all other
           | channels. I recall they were BLM and COVID19; sorry that I
           | don't want politics shoved in my face every day. Why can't I
           | choose what I want to see?
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | "I'm not interested in facts I don't agree with"
        
             | 0_____0 wrote:
             | Google news is the same. At some point it decided that I
             | must follow every sniff and fart coming from a certain
             | electric car tycoon, and there was no negotiating.
        
             | rajbot wrote:
             | You can. First you can just use it like Reader Mode. Safari
             | -> share menu -> open in News for any HN link you click on
             | that has too many popups.
             | 
             | Or, in the News following tab, click Edit, remove all
             | "suggested by Siri" topics, and block low-quality channels.
             | I blocked the National Review, WSJ, USA Today, and People
             | Magazine and my feed got a lot better.
        
               | annexrichmond wrote:
               | No, you can't remove the "Special Coverage" section,
               | which you can't unsee in the macOS app.
               | 
               | https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251600920
        
               | rajbot wrote:
               | Click on the special coverage section -> three dot menu
               | -> block channel.
               | 
               | Or better yet, just don't use their feed.
        
               | thewebcount wrote:
               | I did that for their World Cup coverage, and it did not
               | block the channel. There was a World Cup banner with
               | scores and stuff for a month. At that point I noped out
               | and haven't touched it since.
        
             | juunpp wrote:
             | Because Apple, not you, owns your phone.
        
           | tsuujin wrote:
           | My god that is so much better.
        
         | digitalengineer wrote:
         | European here. I clicked the privacy pop-up and did not accept
         | the ad and tracking cookies. No ads..
        
           | bmacho wrote:
           | No ads (adguard..), loads instantly, also in Europe
           | 
           | edit: it seems that the Americans get our ads too, ah sweet
           | schadenfreude
        
           | IndySun wrote:
           | Europe currently, no pop ups, no ads. And no place holders.
           | Page loads fast.
        
         | diebeforei485 wrote:
         | I believe Firefox/Mozilla use sfgate as a stress test.
        
           | ElfinTrousers wrote:
           | It was sure a good stress test for my eyes.
        
           | paulirish wrote:
           | SFGate has been a notorious test site for Chrome web
           | performance folk too. Here's a perf audit from 8 years ago: h
           | ttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1viSX0vNYPeDB9iWLaOyAg6Fa..
           | .
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | Oh good gravy I just tried. It's over 50% ads.
        
           | ant6n wrote:
           | > It's over 50% ads.
           | 
           | Like 1999...
        
           | spacemadness wrote:
           | Everyone involved should feel bad and really if this is the
           | only way for them to figure out how to survive, they should
           | just go out of business.
        
             | mensetmanusman wrote:
             | Media used to exist based off of classified ad sales, then
             | tech companies absorbed all that cash flow. After that,
             | most local media died.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Reader mode every time.
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | This is functionally no different to using an adblocker for
           | the site.
        
             | faangsticle wrote:
             | Its better because it gets rid of crap layout
        
         | efdee wrote:
         | Interesting. I turned off my adblocker out of curiosity but I'm
         | not seeing anything special. Coming from the EU though, maybe
         | that has something to do with it.
        
         | ElfinTrousers wrote:
         | I tried too. Awful. And the biggest chumbox I've ever seen in
         | my damn life at the bottom.
        
         | Melting_Harps wrote:
         | > My god. That site is comically unusable. There is just no way
         | to read an their article in peace.
         | 
         | Lurk more f.....
         | 
         | https://archive.is/JngjW
        
         | juunpp wrote:
         | That's because you haven't tried Mercury News.
        
         | benzible wrote:
         | SFGate was originally the online version of the SF Chronicle,
         | starting in the 90's. For whatever reason, they wanted a
         | distinct online brand. Now the online version of the Chronicle
         | is hosted at sfchronicle.com and SFGate continues on under the
         | same ownership (Hearst) as its own clickbaity thing. Not much
         | in the way of original reporting.
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | Funnily enough, I get the GDPR pop-up, agree to nothing and the
         | site is readable
        
         | ce4 wrote:
         | Firefox mobile's reader mode was usable
        
       | myrandomcomment wrote:
       | I have spent countless hours there over the years. It was an
       | after work place everyone could agree on. As you change jobs over
       | the years, you still end up there, and you will almost always run
       | into someone you know.
        
       | mk_stjames wrote:
       | I know Gray personally and have been able to hear the whole story
       | from him, which is amazing and one of my favorite stories from
       | the bay, ever. He's a great dude.
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-11 23:01 UTC)