[HN Gopher] Modern Life Is Rubbish: Tao Lin's Taipei (2013)
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       Modern Life Is Rubbish: Tao Lin's Taipei (2013)
        
       Author : occurrence
       Score  : 88 points
       Date   : 2023-06-09 23:30 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (themillions.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (themillions.com)
        
       | dmbche wrote:
       | Have not read the book, have not read Tao Lin
       | 
       | This review might be better than the book. It's very very good.
       | 
       | Reminds me of watching In the mood for love (Wong Kar Wai) and
       | not liking it, but loving the movie after having it broken down
       | by a teacher. The breaking down stayed with me more than any
       | scene (it's not a dig at the movie or Wong Kar Wai, go watch it
       | it's good!)
        
         | elmomle wrote:
         | I've seen the movie and enjoyed it but probably some of its
         | depth was lost on me. What stays with you from the breakdown
         | your teacher gave?
        
           | dmbche wrote:
           | Thanks for asking! So the movie itself is framed as the
           | reminiscing of the man of this story, we are seeing his
           | memories. He uses so much clever cinemtography, like framing
           | most shots through windows or bars to give it separation from
           | the viewer, making us almost peeping toms into the most
           | beautiful(might not be the right word, but you understand)
           | part of someone's life. Things like never seeing the partners
           | of the main characters, their explanation of where the
           | significant other being so vague and thick with subtext ( I
           | think I remember that they subtly indicate that their
           | partners are also having an affair together, even though it's
           | practically impossible.) serving this sense of isolation
           | fcrom the rest off he world, kind of like only now is real -
           | which fits with reminiscing , to me.
           | 
           | What I remember most is that the female lead had a few
           | outfits that had multiple copies of it in different colors
           | made, and during scenes they change from one to another
           | without attention - just like memories will fudge details but
           | keep the larger bits intact.
           | 
           | I had never thought of cinema like that, making choices that
           | the audience just feels instead of catch consciously.
           | 
           | I don't remember the movie, but I know that there is a police
           | interogation that was filmed 3 times, where once the cop
           | doesn't know the truth, one where he does and one where he is
           | purposefully neutral, and the scene mixes all three to make
           | the spectator feel the same sense of confusion as someone
           | does during an interogation.
           | 
           | Edit: or in Dr Strangelove, where the table is green like a
           | poker table so the actors feel the absurdity, but you don't
           | see it because it's black and white, so it only comes through
           | through their acting.
        
             | juliusgeo wrote:
             | The scene you're referring to at the end I believe is from
             | American Psycho, with Willem Dafoe playing the detective
             | doing the interrogation.
        
               | dmbche wrote:
               | I think you're right! Thanks for the reference.
        
       | dilap wrote:
       | A great novel by one of my favorite authors -- I think the way to
       | understand Tao is he is simply trying to be as 100% purely honest
       | as possible, to really _grapple_ with what it means to be alive,
       | in each and every tedious (or awkward or tender or...) moment.
       | But he 's doing that from the perspective of someone who never
       | managed to enter into & find satisfaction in all the various
       | social structures that most people use to find meaning in their
       | lives.
       | 
       | (I think there is increasingly an epidemic of people like this
       | this, and you could speculate as to why, e.g. maybe something
       | about breakdown of social structures, or maybe something about
       | unhealthy environments creating autism/autistic-like traits, or
       | maybe dot dot dot -- lots of a possibilities.)
       | 
       | Anyway, no author I have ever read matches the reality I myself
       | have personally seen and experienced as closely as Tao Lin. I
       | think if you're fortunate enough to not be in that kind of
       | reality, Tao's books must seem strange and pointless. But if you
       | are in that kind of reality, or have experienced, or a
       | neighboring one -- they are magnificent. (Every book is after all
       | ultimately a collaboration between the author and the reader...)
        
         | tsunamifury wrote:
         | I took it more as the strange pointlessness of the children of
         | the global elite.
         | 
         | They have enough to survive, be hip, hang out, but no
         | motivation to do anything with it. It's the modern problem of
         | the wealthy's progeny -- but unlike the 1800s there is no
         | social structure for them to fit into. They want to be "normal"
         | but don't need to do the work or be a part of the normal
         | working/family world. So they are adrift in places like
         | Brooklyn.
        
           | kranke155 wrote:
           | Post scarcity problems.
           | 
           | Nothing we do anymore in many western societies has life and
           | death stakes.
        
       | slibhb wrote:
       | I read Taipei years ago. Similar to the reviewer, I experienced
       | an initial revulsion towards the writing. But by the end I quite
       | liked it.
       | 
       | Tao Lin is an interesting guy. Among other eccentricies, he
       | claims to have cured his autism (which was caused by vaccines).
        
         | Kaibeezy wrote:
         | I had a similar reaction to _100 Years of Solitude_ , except
         | the opposite. When I tell people, I am surprised to find it is
         | an unpopular opinion.
        
       | KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
       | First thing I did when I got access to GPT-4 was to get it to
       | write in the style of Tao Lin. Early experiments didn't work that
       | well but actually this review provided me with the language to
       | explain Tao Lin's style... I should paste this entire review into
       | GPT-4 32K and see if it works better.
        
         | contingencies wrote:
         | _To iterate is human, to recurse divine._ - Peter Deutsch
         | 
         | ... via https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
        
       | ElfinTrousers wrote:
       | No kidding, this review made me very interested in reading the
       | novel. I wonder if something about a depiction of anxious,
       | uptight, pretentious and rudderless hipsters struck a little
       | close to home for the reviewer.
        
       | ahofmann wrote:
       | Wow, what a brutal review. I had to read the first paragraph
       | several times to let the brutality fully sink in. I was hoping
       | that it would get better, that the author would bring some
       | positivity to the book, but that hope was in vain.
       | 
       | I have never heard of the book, what is the reason that this
       | review is now posted here?
        
         | Kaibeezy wrote:
         | This review was one of the most unexpectedly thought-provoking
         | pieces I've read in weeks. Ambush-y.
         | 
         | Finding it here on HN is entirely consistent (for me) with one
         | of the ways I suspect some people use this site, which is as a
         | repository for certain kinds of articles, papers and stories
         | they imagine half a dozen people here might also appreciate.
         | Sometimes they are right.
         | 
         | I looked up the author of the review and her other published
         | work. This led to an issue of Zyzzyva, the San Francisco
         | literary magazine, and fiction titled _Biodome_ by Juhea Kim. I
         | ordered the issue from eBay.
         | 
         | I'm now going to toast a bagel, then drive to the airport.
        
           | mchaver wrote:
           | Do you intend to eat the bagel before or after you return
           | from the airport (assuming you go back to your current
           | location)?
           | 
           | BTW, do you write somewhere outside of HN? You have an
           | interesting style.
        
             | throwaway290 wrote:
             | The bagel bit maybe alludes to Tao Lin's style
        
               | sebastos wrote:
               | The whole comment, even. Notice the use of a noun with -y
               | as an adjective: ambush-y.
        
           | 2143 wrote:
           | Why are you going to the airport? Is that relevant?
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | I think this is the style of writing TFA is complaining
             | about.
        
           | saiojd wrote:
           | What kind of bagel?
        
             | Kaibeezy wrote:
             | One with everything
        
           | dTal wrote:
           | What was thought provoking about it?
        
             | Kaibeezy wrote:
             | _Thought-assaulting_ , I should have said
        
         | qiasl wrote:
         | I have not read the book but it might have something to do with
         | Unabomber manifesto.
        
         | dean2432 wrote:
         | i am wondering the same thing...
        
       | mrwnmonm wrote:
       | My English is not great (not a native speaker)... what is the
       | article trying to say?
       | 
       | Does it talk about missuse of the language or lack of skills in
       | it?
        
         | msaeki wrote:
         | This review is less about language misuse and more talking
         | about how the book's particular use of language (among other
         | things) reflects a personality and worldview that the reviewer
         | really hates
        
           | tsunamifury wrote:
           | But is also an honest reflection of that worldview and one
           | that maybe the author actually is in denial that he holds.
           | 
           | So he comes full circle to grudgingly appreciating it.
        
         | lowdownfork wrote:
         | She's saying it's a bad book, and she did not enjoy reading it.
         | 
         | What it talks about could be considered misuse of language or
         | lack of skill.
         | 
         | Most people telling a story will try to make it more
         | interesting. They choose words that evoke feeling. They skip
         | boring events. They make situations sound dramatic. According
         | to the article, this book did the opposite.
         | 
         | The article author suspected that the book did this on purpose,
         | to make a point. But then she researched the book author and
         | saw him say that he did not.
        
       | strogonoff wrote:
       | Tao Lin's work is interesting because it makes the normally
       | abstract philosophical questions of authorship in art suddenly a
       | bit more tangible. Should we care what creator says about
       | creator's own art? People see all sorts of layers of meaning in
       | his work, and he personally methodically debunks every such
       | finding[0]. One might wonder, are we doing the same to works of
       | authors who are no longer alive to correct us? Does it matter
       | that we do it? Does author's intent matter, or only our
       | interpretation of the work?
       | 
       | My personal view has been gradually trending from "it only
       | matters if I like it" to we should (if we are aware of it), we
       | probably do, it does (and we shouldn't), and yes, creators and
       | their intent matter (although it doesn't mean we can't make our
       | own conclusions and have own takeaways). Tao Lin somewhat
       | contributed to that.
       | 
       | [0] Some suspect he might be doing it ironically, in what I guess
       | would then be an immense art project encompassing his whole life.
        
       | tsunamifury wrote:
       | I found this review of Taipei to be similar to Hemmingway's The
       | Sun Also Rises. The casual indifference of the characters toward
       | eachother while living in a world where they are unchallenged and
       | taken care of by inheritance or parents.
       | 
       | It's a unique type of person and scene until you run into it in
       | real life. The connecting insight between Hemingway and Taipei to
       | me is that this scene has actually be around for 100+ years. Kids
       | with trust funds who travel to hip places, drink and do the
       | latest drugs, have a thrill, but never invest in themselves,
       | eachother, or a future.
       | 
       | They just wander aimlessly, seeking pleasure in a world that
       | won't kill them off, but won't help them along the path to
       | growing up either. They inhabit a thin envelope of a superficial
       | universe that not happens to play well you YouTube.
       | 
       | It's a sort of profound thing... man. Or not.
        
         | ElfinTrousers wrote:
         | I'm sure the failson/daughter is a phenomenon with literally
         | ancient roots. To paraphrase the Bible, the rich will be with
         | you always.
        
       | diamondap wrote:
       | I love the succinct summation in the last line of the review: "if
       | this is the output we can expect from one of our bright young
       | things, we're fucked."
       | 
       | I wonder if the author could boost sales by quoting that on the
       | cover of his book.
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-11 23:02 UTC)