[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Why did major desktop OSes settle on a macOS...
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Ask HN: Why did major desktop OSes settle on a macOS-like taskbar?
Glancing at the new Debian 12 screenshots, I realised that in the
past years most major desktop OSes transitioned to a macOS-esque
(middle-aligned, bottom) large icon taskbar. Why? Being a fan of
the "classic" labeled taskbar, taskbar items with text could
provide a lot more info (document or media title, current path etc)
and even the elongated click area is larger and more predictable.
Also presenting just icons means there has to be a second level
grouping if the same app has multiple windows. Touch displays?
Should be irrelevant in desktop mode. High DPI screens that demand
dense rectangular items? The tradeoff seems to be big to be just
that.
Author : poisonborz
Score : 15 points
Date : 2023-06-10 21:55 UTC (1 hours ago)
| jmclnx wrote:
| It could be argued MAC OS got that bar from CDE
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment
|
| but my guess it os MAC envy :)
| Chanticleer wrote:
| The RISC OS, specifically the "Arthur" version released in
| 1987, was the first to have something like the Dock. Look at
| the screenshot on the Wikipedia page.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_RISC_OS
| SeanLuke wrote:
| Nope. The MacOS Dock is a direct-line descendent of the
| NeXTstep Dock, which dates from 1988 and predates CDE by five
| years.
| [deleted]
| Dalewyn wrote:
| >(middle-aligned, bottom) large icon taskbar.
|
| Wider and wider monitors that are higher and higher resolution,
| so the bottom left gets farther and smaller from the eyes.
| Nevermind multi-monitor setups.
|
| >Being a fan of the "classic" labeled taskbar, taskbar items with
| text could provide a lot more info
|
| Text requires translation/localization, which is extra work,
| which is extra cost. Pick a generic, ideally universal icon and
| it's once-and-done. Also, not everyone can or will read.
|
| >the elongated click area is larger and more predictable.
|
| While I agree, ultimately most people are going to find working
| with a mouse to be complicated and arduous because it's simply
| not a "natural, human" action.
|
| >presenting just icons means there has to be a second level
| grouping if the same app has multiple windows.
|
| You can have multiple buttons with the same icon, you know. A
| good example of this being the taskbar from Windows 10 and prior
| with window groupings disabled.
|
| >Touch displays? Should be irrelevant in desktop mode.
|
| The unfortunate reality is the desktop form factor has become a
| second-class citizen, best we (as in us nerds and graybeards and
| wizards) get used to it because that reality doesn't care for our
| chagrin.
|
| >High DPI screens that demand dense rectangular items? The
| tradeoff seems to be big to be just that.
|
| If anything, higher resolution screens demand circular things
| because they obviously look smoother than on lower resolution
| screens.
| PrimeMcFly wrote:
| > Wider and wider monitors that are higher and higher
| resolution, so the bottom left gets farther and smaller from
| the eyes. Nevermind multi-monitor setups.
|
| This is easily solved by having a 'bottom left' for every
| screen, something I wish Windows offered natively. OpenShell
| does, and I've configured my awesomewm instance to do so. It
| still makes the most sense to me and is the way I'm most
| productive.
|
| > Text requires translation/localization, which is extra work,
| which is extra cost. Pick a generic, ideally universal icon and
| it's once-and-done. Also, not everyone can or will read.
|
| Text is necessary to distinguish instances of open
| applications. Not having the ability to do that decreases
| productivity. I would think the amount of computer users unable
| to read text is an _extreme_ minority, and I 'm counting people
| using accessibility options to read text when I say that.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Well you're describing GNOME, and most desktop Linux
| distributions default to GNOME. So your question is really "why
| do they default to GNOME".
|
| "most major desktop OSes" is an interesting phrase because there
| aren't that many. macOS obviously pioneered the "dock", and
| Windows eventually copied it, because that's what Microsoft does.
| The only other "major" desktop operating systems are the various
| distributions of Linux. BSD-based operating systems are in no way
| "major".
|
| If you don't like the dock, you would probably like KDE Plasma.
| activiation wrote:
| It's pretty easy in windows to switch from the moronic centered
| taskbar
| bdhcuidbebe wrote:
| With all due respect sir, but Debian is not "a mainstream desktop
| OS"
| realitythreek wrote:
| Its a mainstream desktop OS in my heart.
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| > Glancing at the new Debian 12 screenshots, I realised that in
| the past years most major desktop OSes transitioned to a macOS-
| esque (middle-aligned, bottom) large icon taskbar. Why?
|
| That's a misinformed take, Gnome is not the only desktop
| environment available on Debian, it just happen to be listed
| first in the installer, it's a DE agnostic OS
|
| If you look at the most popular linux distro, the 3 most popular
| ones (according to distrowatch) uses XFCE as their default DE
| https://distrowatch.com/, wich provide a traditional labeled task
| bar by default
|
| https://wiki.debian.org/DesktopEnvironment
|
| And if you look at what people use in the wild, you'll notice
| that they move away from the setup you describe:
| https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/
| toomim wrote:
| I've noticed that too, and the decision seems to be more about
| fashion than usability to me. I noticed that it tended to happen
| as MacOS became popular; not as the design was better or the use-
| cases changed.
|
| This MacOS dock has been around for a long time. It was actually
| copied from NextSTEP, which was cloned in WindowMaker, which was
| one of the most popular window managers for unix in the early
| 2000s.
|
| But even then, the most "mainstream" window managers were copying
| Windows, which was the most popular OS of the day. Free Software
| developers would aspire to create something mainstream, and would
| look to copy whatever was mainstream. Back then it was windows.
| Today it's MacOS.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| As someone who is noticing more and more Macs where they used
| to be Windows before, I agree. The mainstream is moving from
| Windows to MacOS, and the "industry leader to ripoff" is
| likewise changing over.
| PrimeMcFly wrote:
| It's but one of many reasons I haven't switched to Windows 11 for
| my Windows installs. I know OpenShell exists but still.
|
| It makes no sense to me to not have a taskbar fill the entire
| span of space it has available, or at least allow it to do so.
| growingentropy wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
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(page generated 2023-06-10 23:01 UTC)