[HN Gopher] The Oldest Maps in the World
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       The Oldest Maps in the World
        
       Author : benbreen
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2023-06-07 23:42 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.laphamsquarterly.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.laphamsquarterly.org)
        
       | gen220 wrote:
       | Related - not all maps are some variation of impressions and
       | depressions on a flat surface!
       | 
       | I think I first heard about these here, the idea keeps bubbling
       | up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Islands_stick_chart
       | 
       | I don't know if "we" know how old the stick-chart tradition is,
       | but it probably gives cave paintings a run for the money. Cave
       | paintings and engraved tablets are comparatively quite good at
       | surviving into the age of contemporary archaeology/anthropology.
        
       | vkou wrote:
       | > It's also the first map made from a bird's-eye view, which
       | suggests a kind of sophisticated and abstract symbolic thinking
       | that typifies modern humans.
       | 
       | Aren't modern humans largely unchanged for the past XY,000 years?
       | 
       | Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that this is the kind of
       | sophisticated and abstract symbolic thinking that typifies
       | _modern human cultures_?
       | 
       | People aren't going to think (as much) in abstract symbolic ways,
       | if their culture doesn't.
        
         | qup wrote:
         | I picked that same sentence out to quote. I think it's wrong,
         | first and foremost: the map is almost certainly not the first
         | bird's-eye view map, it's just the oldest known.
         | 
         | And I guess sure, it typifies modern humans, but it's a
         | meaningless sentence. "Roses are red."
        
           | oh_sigh wrote:
           | It's also possible that the artist drew the picture of what
           | they saw after climbing the nearby mountain/volcano, so no
           | perspective leap was (necessarily) required.
        
             | vkou wrote:
             | Considering that cave paintings have perspective leaps, I
             | don't think climbing a mountain was _necessary_ for one.
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | The WEB site is giving me a 404
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | Just as the article gets interesting, it stopped! I guess I need
       | to buy the book as it is pretty fascinating.
        
       | prox wrote:
       | Since I didn't see it in the article : a link I found for the
       | oldest map from Mezhirich : https://donsmaps.com/mammothcamp.html
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | Thank you that is better source than what I found. The first
         | thing I was struck by was the mammoth head with red marks could
         | also be a map rather than interpretive art. It seems like early
         | literacy may have used bone as part of the medium.
         | 
         | https://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/picturedisplay.asp?lin...
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-08 23:02 UTC)