[HN Gopher] Apple removes $99 dev account requirement for first ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple removes $99 dev account requirement for first iOS 17 and
       macOS 14 betas
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 221 points
       Date   : 2023-06-07 18:09 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | >Actually submitting apps to Apple for App Store distribution
       | (or, on the Mac, signing them so that you can distribute them
       | outside the App Store without setting off macOS' many unsigned
       | app warning messages) will still cost $99 per year.
        
         | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
         | so you cannot build apps for mac unless you pay the dev fees?
         | even if you do the whole distribution yourself and avoid app
         | store?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | hobo_mark wrote:
           | Never used a mac, but I assume that is only for installing
           | from the store, correct? If I publish an open source program
           | that one installs with `brew install` or whatever it's called
           | none of this applies?
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | Yes, all of it is open for development. The only thing
             | about mac is that, if you want to distribute apps via the
             | web, you'll need to instruct the user to bypass the code
             | signing requirement by right-clicking on the app or DMG and
             | clicking open from there. Getting a Developer ID code
             | signing certificate is only available with a paid developer
             | account.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | weaksauce wrote:
             | yes and no. you can't sign your app with a certificate so
             | if you want to have a frictionless install you have to pay.
             | (the friction is having to explain that you have to press
             | ctrl while clicking and then click open and then click
             | trust this app) command line utilities don't have this
             | friction and brew mainly installs command line utilities
             | (though there are app binaries distributed through a
             | separate brew thing... keg or cask or cellar or something
             | like that)
             | 
             | traditionally you would need to pay the 99 bucks to install
             | a binary on your ipad or iphone or iwatch. those need to
             | have the certificate signed by apple to run on the phone
             | for general security reasons so some website couldn't
             | sideload an app. now you can do all of that without paying
             | the 99 bucks... but if you wanted to sell it on the app
             | store or distribute it for external testing you still need
             | to pay.
        
               | dingledork69 wrote:
               | > general security reasons
               | 
               | Cash cow reasons*. The system is designed to be secure
               | even against signed apps.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | You can build and distribute them, but it's very ugly. When a
           | person first tries to open your unsigned and unnotarized
           | application, they get a big warning that the app cannot be
           | opened. They need to actively whitelist it by going to the
           | system settings or by right-clicking the application bundle
           | and selecting "Open" from the menu. And the warning that it
           | gives to users is such that your average user won't even have
           | any idea that whitelisting is an option.
           | 
           | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491
           | 
           | While the process is fairly simple, it basically excludes all
           | normal people from using your application if you don't sign
           | them. So any application that wants to distribute outside
           | macOS experts needs to get their application signed and
           | notarized.
        
             | aprilnya wrote:
             | you could put a note in the dmg (drag app to apps folder
             | screen) that says to right click->open when opening for the
             | first time
        
           | josephcsible wrote:
           | Technically you _can_ , but if you do, Apple will lie to
           | everyone who tries to use your app by telling them that it's
           | dangerous and probably contains malware, and will make them
           | jump through a bunch of hoops and try to talk them out of it
           | at every step before they can actually run it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Domenic_S wrote:
             | > _make them jump through a bunch of hoops and try to talk
             | them out of it at every step before they can actually run
             | it._
             | 
             | Right click --> open --> open. 3 clicks is not "a bunch of
             | hoops".
        
               | josephcsible wrote:
               | It's 3 clicks if you know how to do it, which they go out
               | of their way to not tell you in the error you get when
               | you try to run it like any other program.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | If they told you how to do it, then what would even be
               | the point? The whole idea is to add a stumbling block in
               | the path of malware authors getting users to run a
               | trojan.
               | 
               | Anything the user learns to do by rote without first
               | understanding the security implications provides zero
               | security. Like the Windows Vista elevation prompt --
               | users just learned to hit "Yes" and got infected anyway.
        
               | ris58h wrote:
               | > If they told you how to do it, then what would even be
               | the point?
               | 
               | To warn a user.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | And what would be the point of doing _that_? You have to
               | have some behavioral outcome you expect.
               | 
               | Do you expect people to react by not running the program?
               | Why? If you find out that they _are_ in fact still
               | running the program just as much with the warning in
               | place, because they aren 't _reading_ the warning... then
               | have you actually  "warned the user"?
        
             | vachina wrote:
             | Sounds like a racket. MSFT does the same with SmartScreen,
             | regardless whether your executables are benign or not,
             | unless you pay them (or a third party) for a signing cert.
        
               | seba_dos1 wrote:
               | The last time I've seen it SmartScreen did not make the
               | option to continue completely undiscoverable though.
        
               | aaronbrethorst wrote:
               | Yep, AAPL has a $2.8 trillion market cap because of all
               | the $99 fees they charge developers.
        
               | TeaDude wrote:
               | Oh goodness. I get this crap all the time at work.
               | 
               | Apparently Adobe Acrobat isn't a commonly downloaded
               | application. Somehow I fail to believe that...
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | The result? Everybody ignores SmartScreen warnings now...
        
             | jmull wrote:
             | The message (before first run only) just says the software
             | "can't be opened because Apple cannot check it for
             | malicious software." and "This software needs to be
             | updated. Contact the developer for more information."
             | 
             | Anyway, it's only hard to run if you have no idea what
             | you're doing... pretty much the same people who should not
             | be running executables randomly downloaded from the
             | internet are the ones blocked by hurdles like this.
        
               | howinteresting wrote:
               | "This software needs to be updated" is an outright lie.
        
               | throw74775 wrote:
               | No it's not. It needs to be updated in order for it to
               | run without that warning.
               | 
               | If the user has permission to disable the warning, they
               | can, otherwise the app needs to be updated.
        
             | pivo wrote:
             | I don't like the $99 fee either, but to be fair, Apple will
             | tell you that they can't tell if the app is dangerous. Not
             | that it _is_ dangerous. Specifically, they will tell you
             | that the app _Cannot Be Opened Because the Developer Cannot
             | be Verified_
             | 
             | You can of course open it the app anyway by disregarding
             | this protection for the specific app in settings.
        
               | josephcsible wrote:
               | > Apple will tell you that they can't tell if the app is
               | dangerous. Not that it _is_ dangerous. Specifically, they
               | will tell you that the app _Cannot Be Opened Because the
               | Developer Cannot be Verified_
               | 
               | Okay, how about this? They're trying their hardest to
               | give everyone the impression that it's dangerous without
               | explicitly saying so.
        
               | ris58h wrote:
               | But it is dangerous by definition. Run unknown binary is
               | dangerous. I wish macos had an easy way to sandbox apps.
        
               | josephcsible wrote:
               | > But it is dangerous by definition. Run unknown binary
               | is dangerous.
               | 
               | Making Apple $99 richer doesn't make your app any less
               | dangerous.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | anlaw wrote:
               | You aren't the center of other people's lives. How is any
               | old arbitrary user to know you're not a con of a dev?
               | 
               | Software sales are contrived fiat exchange to give your
               | code access to my hardware and userspace. Who the f are
               | you?
        
               | hiatus wrote:
               | Having "skin in the game" is a way to keep a community
               | honest. Even darknet markets use bonding for vendors. Not
               | to mention that in the case of Apple registration, it
               | leaves a paper trail. Though I'd agree that the $99 for
               | the privilege seems arbitrary.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | It makes random apps much less likely to be dangerous.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36086537 is an
               | analogous case. When the primary provider of free domains
               | names went away, there was a HUGE reduction in phishing
               | websites. Those types would spin up thouands of sites on
               | xyz, vip and similar TLDs faster than the white hats
               | could whackamole them.
               | 
               | A domain going from $0 to $10 vastly curtailed that
               | activity. You don't have to make something impossible,
               | you just have to make it not cost effective to shot gun
               | it.
        
               | tcmart14 wrote:
               | I don't mind the pop up except for, I wish they had a way
               | built in where it doesn't do it for like a special list
               | of apps. Apps I am thinking of would be like GIMP or VLC.
               | Well known open source projects that have been around a
               | long time.
        
           | misnome wrote:
           | You can, but users need to right-click and click "open" the
           | first time they open the app.
        
         | reaperman wrote:
         | This is still a huge improvement. Can devs also use TestFlight
         | for free to distribute to a few dozen friends for testing?
         | 
         | Would be a massive benefit to budding developers in developing
         | nations.
        
           | lapcat wrote:
           | > Can devs also use TestFlight for free to distribute to a
           | few dozen friends for testing?
           | 
           | No. https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/
        
           | Alupis wrote:
           | Why is there any fee at all... $99 per developer is a
           | rounding error for Apple, it simply doesn't matter one bit.
           | 
           | Nor should you be limited to compiling on Apple hardware.
           | These limitations are policy decisions, and just serve to
           | reinforce the notion that Apple doesn't care about developers
           | (hilarious for the company that pretty much invented app
           | stores!). A lot like it was a ToS violation to run MacOS in a
           | virtualization environment - why be so developer hostile?
           | 
           | Nobody can soundly argue these artificial barriers have
           | increased app quality on all the Apple platforms either.
           | These barriers... just exist, _just because_.
        
             | irrational wrote:
             | I'd like to see it as there is no fee if your app is
             | available for free (completely free - no subscriptions, no
             | credits, no paying on a third party website, etc.), but, if
             | you want to charge money, then you have to pay the $99 fee.
        
             | ramesh31 wrote:
             | >Nobody can soundly argue these artificial barriers have
             | increased app quality on all the Apple platforms either.
             | 
             | One quick look at App Store vs. Play store will tell you
             | differently.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | The fee was in place before the App Store even existed.
               | Take a look at how little Mac software there is compared
               | to Windows...
        
               | jjice wrote:
               | Windows also has a much larger desktop market share and
               | has in the past, plus it's more common for businesses to
               | use Windows machines.
        
               | highwaylights wrote:
               | Does it though?
               | 
               | I very much doubt making it _really_ difficult to target
               | the iPhone on anything other than a Mac has anything to
               | do with the amount of shovelware on the Play Store.
        
             | konschubert wrote:
             | The fee is to prevent spam.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | Spam could be prevented with a listing fee if you want
               | the app to list in the App Store. Spam is prevented by
               | app reviews and policy enforcement, on the App store.
               | 
               | A developer annual fee doesn't prevent spam. It's just
               | there to be hostile to developers...
        
               | Euphorbium wrote:
               | It works totally perfect, just go to the garbage dump
               | that is android store and compare.
        
               | idle_zealot wrote:
               | Speaking as someone who regularly uses both iOS and
               | Android (Pixel) phones: The App store and Play store are
               | indistinguishable in terms of app quality. Both are
               | absolutely filled with garbage, and the only way to find
               | anything worthwhile is to search off-platform, then punch
               | your desired app name into the store's search.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | Not to mention the Play Store requires $25 per listed app
               | - removing the "anti-spam" argument some are making.
               | 
               | The issue is paying $99 to even be allowed to think about
               | making an app - plus the arbitrary requirement it must be
               | built using a Mac.
               | 
               | Not all apps are commercial, and not all apps generate
               | revenue, and not all apps are even on the App Store!
               | 
               | It's just an absurd requirement. Stockholm Syndrome,
               | anyone?
        
               | tcmart14 wrote:
               | This is an interesting idea, but I can see it being
               | either good or bad, especially depending on the fee. Lets
               | say Apple does this, its $25 per year to list an app on
               | the app store. If you have less than 4 apps, its a deal.
               | If you have 4 apps, its a wash. But if your an indie
               | developer with 6 apps, not it is costing you more. Of
               | course, if they went this route, I guess they could offer
               | both pricing. $99 for developer and you get,
               | theoretically, unlimited app entries, but you can also
               | pay per app.
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | This isn't an idea - this is how it works everywhere
               | except Apple.
               | 
               | You pay for the benefits of being listed in a curated app
               | store - such as Play Store, Microsoft Store, Steam store,
               | etc. The benefits include discovery, audience, services
               | (billing, distribution), etc.
               | 
               | But you don't pay anything for the privilege of making an
               | app. That's just absurd.
        
               | blululu wrote:
               | I get that paying for stuff is a pain but apps are a
               | business and there are a ton of expenses involved with
               | any business (a websites, databases, cloud hosting are
               | also not free). Having app reviews done by a human is
               | fundamentally expensive. Given that a develop can easily
               | submit a few apps in a year, I'm not really sure that
               | Apple is even making much more than break even on the
               | annual $100 fee. If they are it is small potatoes
               | compared to the 15-33% fees on sales.
        
               | dingledork69 wrote:
               | Not all of them. Did you forget that open source software
               | exists? Or just good old hobbyists.
        
               | dev_tty01 wrote:
               | I don't understand this. Why is it of to pay for the
               | computer, storage, cloud services, etc. for your hobby
               | but a $99 fee is somehow evil. People spend thousands of
               | dollars on all kinds of hobbies. Even if you get someone
               | else to pay for the computer etc., a $99 dollar hobby is
               | ridiculously cheap.
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | Why _should_ apps be required to be businesses? A lot of
               | the apps I use are not businesses. Sometimes people make
               | good stuff just for fun, or any other reason.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | They're not arguing against all fees, just a fee that
               | makes more sense (you pay per listing).
        
           | m3kw9 wrote:
           | Prob not as that lowers the barrier to mass side loading via
           | test flight
        
           | guraf wrote:
           | Serious question: why or how does a developer in a developing
           | nation end up selecting macos as a platform? And after that
           | deliberate choice of hardware why do we assume they couldn't
           | afford the $99?
        
             | schemescape wrote:
             | If they're trying to sell apps, it would make sense to sell
             | on the platform where people spend the most on apps. I have
             | no way to verify, but I've heard that iOS is that platform.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | Depends on whether you're trying to produce apps that
               | target the global market or your own local market. There
               | might be more apps purchased per capita on iOS, but if
               | iOS is 0.001% penetration in your country, and your app
               | is only for people _in_ your country, then that stat isn
               | 't really relevant.
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | Who would make an app only for one country outside
               | specific fringe cases
               | 
               | Edit: Specifically on the topic of apps relevant to
               | independent developers, the topic I'm replying to. An
               | indie dev isn't going to create a regional newspaper or
               | utility company or a media empire or a government.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | Regional newspapers; social networks (or dating, or
               | classifieds) following the Facebook "start by seeding
               | interest in the people around you" model; government
               | services apps; any "portal" app for banks, electric
               | companies, cellular providers, or insurance companies,
               | etc.
               | 
               | (I'm Canadian; half the apps on my phone only exist in
               | Canada.)
               | 
               | More relevant to paid use-cases: streaming video services
               | that offer content in the country's distinct language
               | that's only spoken there. (Example: the Philippines.
               | There's enough Tagalog content for entire services to be
               | based around offering it; and nobody outside of the
               | country would ever be interested in it.)
               | 
               | > An indie dev isn't going to create a regional newspaper
               | or utility company or a media empire.
               | 
               | How many people do you think work at regional newspapers
               | in e.g. Tanzania? I'd guess maybe five people. You think
               | they can hire some big software firm to write them a
               | mobile app? They're either hiring the editor's nephew to
               | do it, or they put out a classified ad looking for
               | someone in town who can do it, and they end up getting a
               | call from the guy who runs the cellphone repair store who
               | "thinks he can give it a try." Same with the banks there,
               | the utilities there, and even the government services
               | there. Also same with schools, restaurants, museums, etc.
               | 
               | You'd _think_ that most of these would just target the
               | web rather than making mobile apps. But in many of these
               | countries -- and esp. in poorer regions of them --
               | Internet access is still so shit that the lower bandwidth
               | requirements of a native app with offline sync really
               | matter. (Example again from the Philippines, c /o a
               | friend of mine who lives there: people who meet on dating
               | _websites_ move immediately to talking on WhatsApp,
               | because out in the provinces you 've got a miniscule data
               | plan with spotty connectivity, which can handle the few
               | KBs of push data per WhatsApp message, but _can 't_
               | handle refreshing some bloated website chat interface to
               | check for new messages.)
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | Now you're talking about wage labor opportunity, not App
               | Store sales profitability. If you make an app for a local
               | newspaper, you're not making money off app sales, you're
               | selling the IP you create and the profits that IP or
               | automation generates for the owner. Different topic.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | That doesn't argue against my point, though.
               | 
               | If you're a person who lives in Tanzania and is
               | considering getting into mobile app development -- and
               | you've decided, first-and-foremost, that you want to
               | "work locally" to produce apps that benefit your fellow
               | Tanzanians -- then by making this decision, you've
               | basically opted out of "selling apps" altogether, instead
               | placing yourself firmly in the "selling app-dev labor for
               | the development of free apps" camp; and you've _also_
               | opted out of targeting iOS, since it 's got at most
               | 7.75%[1] market share in Tanzania.
               | 
               | (And probably a large percentage of that 7.75% is
               | tourists visiting for safaris, who won't ever be
               | downloading your app-for-locals anyway. Tanzania's less-
               | tourist-inclined neighbour, Kenya, has a 3.43% iOS
               | market-share, which sounds closer to realistic for the
               | area.)
               | 
               | [1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-
               | rankings/iphone-ma...
               | 
               | (If you want a knock-down argument, though, how about
               | this: India has a billion people and 3.92% of them use
               | iOS (which I didn't realize until pulling the citation
               | above.) There are definitely _independent_ Indian game
               | developers, making games whose characters are historical
               | or mythological figures well-known in India, but not of
               | much interest outside of India. They sell these games,
               | for money. Would it make sense for these people to bother
               | with iOS development, vs. focusing solely on Android
               | development?)
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Most dating apps are run by the same handful of
               | companies. I suspect the same may be true of other
               | categories you mentioned.
               | 
               | Ex: Match owns Tinder, Match.com, Meetic, OkCupid, Hinge,
               | PlentyOfFish, OurTime, Amoureux.com (Now Redirects To
               | Meetic), Black People Meet, BLK, Chispa, Disons Demain,
               | Hawaya (Formerly Harmonica), Hinge, HyperConnect,
               | Lexa.nl, Love Scout 24, neu.de, Pairs, ParPerfeito, Ship,
               | Stir, The League, Upward...
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_Group
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | I brought up dating sites for a reason, actually! Match-
               | group companies really only cover developed countries in
               | North America + Europe + East Asia; they have virtually
               | no penetration into South America, Africa, or
               | South/South-East Asia.
               | 
               | Instead, "the rest of the world" has developed and
               | popularized its own collection of apps and sites, some of
               | which are global (being well-known to everyone _except_
               | the English-speaking world), while others are quite
               | regional.
               | 
               | Locanto (a Craigslist-alike, containing among other
               | sections a Craigslist Personals-alike) is a good example
               | of a global one. It exists in the west, but has basically
               | no market penetration. But ask anyone in South Africa, or
               | Colombia, or Indonesia, what they think of when you say
               | "dating site", and they'll probably point to Locanto.
               | 
               | Others are regional but backed by "media empires" of
               | their own -- there's the whole
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupid_Media set of sites,
               | for example, that each cover one country in SEA.
        
               | antonjs wrote:
               | There's also a huge opportunity in taking concepts that
               | are working well elsewhere, and building them for the
               | specifics of your market. For an early example, see
               | Trademe in NZ (basically better rebay, and still
               | completely dominant). If I recall, there's also a Berlin
               | development house that basically does this at scale for
               | the German market.
               | 
               | For a lot of people, winning in their country (rather
               | than SF-bay-world-domination-hyperscale) is plenty.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | ramesh31 wrote:
             | >Serious question: why or how does a developer in a
             | developing nation end up selecting macos as a platform?
             | 
             | Money.
             | 
             | Plain and simple, iOS is where the money is at. People jump
             | through the hoops, and Apple creates them, because they
             | know the customer base is many times more valuable than
             | Android.
        
             | zerr wrote:
             | Unlocked VMware macOS emulation on Windows is also an
             | option.
        
             | mantas wrote:
             | Hackintosh plus few generations old iphone is not
             | expensive.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Is hackintosh still a thing now that Apple Si is a thing?
               | If you're forced to use Intel CPU, you're not going to be
               | using the latest/greatest OS.
        
               | g0atbutt wrote:
               | If you value your time at $0...
        
               | szundi wrote:
               | Topic here is you have no money = this
        
             | la_fayette wrote:
             | I develop iOS apps and I am fine with a mac mini and a used
             | iPhone...
        
               | tucnak wrote:
               | All iphones are used if you use them...
        
               | willcipriano wrote:
               | I started programming on the PC with computers I found in
               | the trash.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | norman784 wrote:
             | I don't know how is now, but a few years ago you have more
             | chances to monetize in iOS than in Android. Also you can
             | get a used Mac or refurbished one relatively cheap.
        
             | CodeBeater wrote:
             | They might be trying to target that specific high-dollar
             | demographic.
        
               | motogpjimbo wrote:
               | Outside of the US, iOS's market penetration is so low
               | that unless your app sells luxury yachts, it's largely
               | pointless to throw your dev resources behind it no matter
               | how well-heeled your Apple customers may be.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | Can't wait to get sideloading support in the EU. Then I might
         | actually bother learning iOS development.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | tazu wrote:
           | Agreed. We've gotten very far with a PWA (and now iOS web
           | push notifications!) but the only thing holding us back is
           | the App Store risk. I'd love to use native UIs because I hate
           | Javascript and iPhone apps can be beautiful (for example,
           | Apollo).
        
       | deepzn wrote:
       | I remember when I first paid $99 for my dev account for the app
       | store back in 2009. No inflation on the fee at least :)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rektide wrote:
       | Given how hard they're trying to get people to care about Mac dev
       | again - as with for example the directx to metal converter they
       | want gangbusters on - it's a sensible & good move.
       | 
       | They also have a public beta in July.
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | This plus the unexpected price decrease on the Macbook Air -
         | feels like they're struggling a little bit in the Mac category.
         | That's fantastic. Apple is at their best when they are
         | struggling.
         | 
         | There's of course also this from the latest quarterly report (h
         | ttps://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/FY23_Q2_Consolidated_Fin...)
         | :
         | 
         | Net sales for the Mac category:
         | 
         | Q1 '23: $7,618M
         | 
         | Q1 '22: $10,435M
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | Apple, being a functional organization, doesn't have P&Ls or
           | business units. It does have product lines.
        
           | anankaie wrote:
           | Yes, and more broadly $Company is at their best when they are
           | struggling.
        
             | no_wizard wrote:
             | I don't think this is an axiom. Apple having a business
             | unit performing under expectations _though still
             | profitable_ may be a win for buyers because they 're _well
             | capitalized_ to shave margins to move more units.
             | 
             | A struggling business that isn't well capitalized can't do
             | the same thing, and that is way more typical
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Twitter fails this test.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | dingledork69 wrote:
         | If they want people to care about mac dev they should get rid
         | of the fee entirely and supply build tools for Linux/Windows.
         | At the very least CLI tools that can perform the actual
         | compilation. Cross platform compilation should be possible,
         | especially for CI but also to reduce friction of onboarding new
         | devs.
         | 
         | It's absolutely ridiculous that you have to _pay_ to add value
         | to a platform.
        
       | eql5 wrote:
       | too little, too late...
        
       | bogwog wrote:
       | This title is misleading. The only change is that you don't need
       | a developer account to download the developer beta version of iOS
       | and macOS, which gets released before the public beta. Seemingly
       | nothing has changed with regards to the Apple tax.
       | 
       | EDIT: I wonder how many people are invested enough into iOS/Mac
       | development that they need to use early beta releases of the
       | operating system, but aren't already paying $99/year to release
       | apps?
        
         | alwillis wrote:
         | > This title is misleading.
         | 
         | It's not. Prior to this year, you had to have a paid account to
         | install beta versions of the new operating systems announced at
         | WWDC. Developers using free developer accounts had to wait
         | until July until Apple released the public betas.
         | 
         | No more sitting at the kids table.
         | 
         | > I wonder how many people are invested enough into iOS/Mac
         | development that they need to use early beta releases of the
         | operating system, but aren't already paying $99/year to release
         | apps?
         | 
         | If you have an idea, you don't need to pay $99 to access the
         | latest betas operating systems and tools to try something out.
         | 
         | It's also not only about development; new operating systems
         | have features for system administrators and others involved in
         | deployment of Apple devices and services.
         | 
         | Someone who's administers 100 Macs or iPads at a school can get
         | a head start of new feature and options in the new versions.
         | There has always been an IT track at WWDC, though it doesn't
         | get much attention.
         | 
         | For starters: "What's new in managing Apple devices" [1]
         | 
         | [1]: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10040
        
           | kotaKat wrote:
           | I've already had to notify my support team that iOS 17
           | reverts Private MAC address settings and breaks our network
           | authentication on our network, so...
        
           | Aleklart wrote:
           | it is not like anything changed in new version this year,
           | only new emoji level features added. may be that's why they
           | let regular users install it right away.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | > aren't already paying $99/year to release apps?
         | 
         | I'd see Apple ID switching as a use case. You may want to use a
         | different ID for a project (potentially share that ID if you
         | don't want to manage an org for a hobby project), but not pay
         | 99 on every single IDs you use.
         | 
         | Of course Apple would be vehemently against that use case and
         | typically wants you to tatoo your Apple ID to your soul and
         | never log out from it.
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | It's for college kids who have more time than money, who want
         | to use the most bleeding edge OS.
         | 
         | I used to be that kid. I would would hours in line to get pre-
         | release Windows betas when I was a freshman because it was fun
         | to run Windows NT4.0 beta.
        
         | ris58h wrote:
         | > I wonder how many people are invested enough into iOS/Mac
         | development that they need to use early beta releases of the
         | operating system, but aren't already paying $99/year to release
         | apps?
         | 
         | Why they should be developers in the first place? Just curious
         | users.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | For those glad about this change, it's not a "need" to use iOS
         | or MacOS beta for any business reason, it's just the desire to
         | live on the bleeding edge and experience new features first,
         | even if that means crashes and instability. In addition,
         | feedback submissions for betas are high priority and I usually
         | get a reply within a month or so for them.
        
       | outwit wrote:
       | Digital markets act strikes again
        
       | jeron wrote:
       | Does the $99 still apply if you are looking to develop for
       | realityOS?
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | Even before now, you could develop for iOS and any other
         | target, you just couldn't distribute to Testflight or the App
         | Store or elsewhere - so yes, you'll be able to develop for and
         | use the realityOS simulator[0].
         | 
         | 0: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10081?time=542
        
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