[HN Gopher] The unsung hero of the Apple Watch is its hidden but...
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       The unsung hero of the Apple Watch is its hidden buttons
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 217 points
       Date   : 2023-05-31 16:19 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | garyfirestorm wrote:
       | >"Most watch users don't know how to change the strap and I bet
       | pre-Apple Watch, many didn't realize that was an option
       | 
       | I get it, they got bands and ecosystem and everything, but making
       | it sound like no one swapped bands pre apple is a stretch
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _making it sound like no one swapped bands pre apple is a
         | stretch_
         | 
         | I suspect the author is too young or rural to remember when
         | watch stores were common (stand-alone, in malls, in department
         | stores, in airports, etc...), and you'd go in to have a battery
         | changed, or pick a new strap from the hundreds on display.
        
           | justsomehnguy wrote:
           | > too young or rural to remember
           | 
           | >> Antonio G. Di Benedetto, a writer covering tech deals and
           | The Verge's Deals newsletter, buying guides, and gift guides.
           | Previously, he spent 15 years in the photography industry.
           | 
           | He is on Twitter since 2009 so he is at least 35?
           | 
           | Probably just never paid any attention for the pocket
           | watches. Or just "journalism".
        
           | icepat wrote:
           | Yes, a very odd take. I had watches ever since I was a child,
           | and changing the watch band was a regular occurrence. Mostly
           | because I would wear through them.
        
             | Kon-Peki wrote:
             | In more recent times, the Timex Weekender had a very large
             | ecosystem of swappable bands. But it was designed such that
             | you needed no tools and just slid the bands in and out.
             | 
             | The Apple system _is_ really nice, in that you can quickly
             | and easily change _attached_ bands without tools.
        
               | icepat wrote:
               | Oh the Apple watch system is _definitely nice_! And I
               | prefer it to having to fiddle around with small pins to
               | shim my watch band off. But that 's not so much the
               | issue, the rather odd idea of "hardly anyone changing
               | watch bands before Apple" is.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | What probably is true is that pre-Swatch (and maybe some
               | other brands/lines), people certainly replaced watch
               | bands. But it was more because the band was worn out as
               | opposed to casually swapping them for fashion reasons.
        
               | icepat wrote:
               | Yep, I only swapped my band because it was trashed, and
               | always to the exact same one as before.
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | Watch people, sure.
         | 
         | However most people who were just rocking a basic Casio from
         | Sprawl-Mart probably never even thought to swap their band.
         | 
         | What is really impressive about the Apple Watch is that it
         | convinced a lot of people who really didn't care about watches
         | to start dropping $200-$500 on them.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | By the time the strap is worse for wear on my cheap Timex,
           | the battery is probably near-replacement, and the crystal is
           | probably a bit banged up too. So easier to just spend $30 to
           | replace the whole thing.
           | 
           | But I've certainly replaced watch bands in the past (or had
           | it done). Never really been a watch person. I do have an
           | Apple Watch which I wear mostly for hiking, etc. I like it
           | but it's probably my most optional Apple device.
        
             | drivers99 wrote:
             | I wore the same Timex Triathlon for about 16 years. I
             | replaced the watch band and the battery numerous times.
             | Eventually the plastic button (the main one in the bottom
             | left) wore out and it lost its water resistance and I
             | finally switched watches. But to switch watches due to the
             | replaceable parts (battery, watch band) seems unnecessary
             | and wasteful.
        
         | matwood wrote:
         | Yeah, Shark watches were all the rage when I was a kid. They
         | had lots of different straps, and early versions of
         | complications (add-ons you could stick on the band).
         | 
         | https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/a-definitive-deep-dive-on-...
        
       | king_magic wrote:
       | Some of us watch enthusiasts enjoy the occasional challenge of
       | swapping watch bands :)
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | Except for a few "dress" watches I've switched all others to
       | nato-style. One of his arguments is it's "easier". I don't know,
       | nato-style is pretty much idiot proof.
       | 
       | I do have a "pin" tool which makes it easy, but I'd rather buy a
       | simple tool then buy into an expensive closed ecosystem.
        
       | hbosch wrote:
       | In fact, some quick research suggests that multiple Swiss
       | watchmakers had engineered quick-change watch straps before
       | Apple... but you can definitely credit Apple for bringing it to
       | the everyday consumer. I found an article[0] that predates the
       | first Apple watch which mentions Hublot, Panerai and Cartier as
       | innovators here.
       | 
       | In fact, one of the coolest things about the Cartier Santos is
       | not only the quick-release system that frees the band from the
       | watch but the hidden buttons that also allow you to resize the
       | steel bracelet itself[1]! (Video shows a _2018_ Santos, but
       | nevertheless)
       | 
       | Regardless of who got it right first, I do hope that Apple's
       | watch strap system becomes more ubiquitous in the watch world.
       | Oftentimes watches are over-engineered for their 99% use case of
       | casual wear in order to fulfill some fantasy of diving in the
       | Caribbean or scaling Mt. Kilimanjaro, and so therefore many are
       | screwed or fastened in some way that makes adjusting them a pain
       | without tiny little tools and a clean surface.
       | 
       | 0. https://www.thewatchbox.com/blog/gone-60-seconds-quick-
       | chang...
       | 
       | 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWv4QBJyz78&t=103s
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _I do hope that Apple 's watch strap system becomes more
         | ubiquitous in the watch world. Oftentimes watches are over-
         | engineered for their 99% use case of casual wear in order to
         | fulfill some fantasy of diving in the Caribbean or scaling Mt.
         | Kilimanjaro, and so therefore many are screwed or fastened in
         | some way that makes adjusting them a pain without tiny little
         | tools and a clean surface._
         | 
         | I agree, but for different reasons. I have several very nice
         | dress watches that I keep for sentimental reasons that I'm not
         | able to wear because the manufacturer used one-off straps for
         | them. The mechanisms still work fine, but I can't wear them
         | because the exact strap for that exact watch is no longer
         | available.
         | 
         | Hey, EU -- While you're forcing USB-C on everyone, how about
         | picking a watch band standard, too?
        
           | reaperman wrote:
           | So, I'm a huge fan of regulation but the problem with over-
           | regulation is that it will stop really fun products from
           | being released in those markets.
           | 
           | Like, imagine a watch that has an inflatable cuff that can
           | take your blood pressure. It may be unsightly, bulky, and
           | very dorky. So maybe it wouldn't fit this new "EU Watch Band
           | Standard" that was imagined for Apple Watch. So a very large
           | company like Apple could lobby the EU to change the law and
           | might even do that with enough lead time so it doesn't delay
           | the product launch. But a small company, kickstarter, etc
           | would be screwed because there's no way they could expect to
           | get the legislators' attention for something like this.
           | 
           | And yes, the legislation could be written with sensible
           | carveouts, but we all know it won't, or they'll either not be
           | comprehensive enough, or they'll be a leaky sieve that lets
           | every shady corporation say "oh yeah there's a standard
           | watchband but our _special watch_ falls under exemption
           | 312(c). " Or you can have a government agency handle
           | "exemption requests" without legislative action, but then the
           | small kickstarter will go through 6 rounds and 18 months of
           | records and documentation requests, if they even bother
           | looking into the process at all and not just saying "oh fuck
           | that."
        
             | yunohn wrote:
             | > imagine
             | 
             | Yes, so imaginative innovations for niche usecases can
             | easily be exempted. The goal would be to enable mainstream
             | mass-market devices to follow the standard. It's not as
             | complicated as you suggest, and works in almost every
             | industry.
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | I mean, straight up no. If there is any sort of
               | legislation, regardless of exemptions, time will have to
               | be spent to figure out if the exemption applies, and
               | generally will require some work to either apply for or
               | defend the exemption as part of the development and
               | release process.
               | 
               | This would stifle innovation in the long run. Why bother
               | with this extra work when there are a other variations on
               | the idea that would be quicker to launch?
        
               | burntwater wrote:
               | Every innovation is niche, until it gets adopted by the
               | mainstream. Many large companies have attempted to create
               | mainstream products which have failed.
        
           | ImprovedSilence wrote:
           | You might not be able to get the _exact_ strap, but there are
           | certainly numerous aftermarket straps (from low to high end)
           | you can easily get. The strap is more than likely held in by
           | a spring bar, and the while there are various widths, they
           | are standard widths, ie 20 or 22mm etc... especially any
           | older mechanical watch, will absolutely have the ability to
           | interchange the band. And if it's not a spring bar but a
           | solid fixed piece of metal, you can use a nato style strap or
           | something similar.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _You might not be able to get the exact strap, but there
             | are certainly numerous aftermarket straps (from low to high
             | end) you can easily get._
             | 
             | I've tried, and even brought them to several watch stores
             | and jewelers in Seattle, Houston, and New York with no
             | luck.
             | 
             | The problem isn't the spring bar, it's the shape of the
             | watch where connection is made.
        
           | Spinnaker_ wrote:
           | I'm curious, which very nice dress watch manufacturer won't
           | replace the band for you? They went out of business?
        
         | thadk wrote:
         | For what it's worth, scaling the freestanding Mt. Kilimanjaro
         | volcano is about as intense as a 4 day backpacking trip up up
         | up to high altitude, little to no watch-risky technical
         | climbing required for the common routes.
        
           | saiya-jin wrote:
           | Whiskey/cocacola routes take 7 days standard, at least in
           | 2012 they both did. For good reasons, folks struggle with
           | altitude and you have plenty of people who go up high first
           | time in their lives, so taking time to acclimatize is smart
           | for general groups. Even with this, success rate was not more
           | than 50%.
           | 
           | I've personally struggled like hell on the top, almost
           | hallucinated and so did rest of my team members. But we made
           | a junior mistake of going too fast up on summit day. When I
           | did ie Mont Damavand in Iran, which is just 250m lower after
           | cca 3 years, no issues and roud trip was just 2 days. But
           | I've trained and did some crazy stuff in between. Most folks
           | don't do that kind of stuff.
        
             | jefftk wrote:
             | Sure, but none of that is hard on watches.
        
         | high_priest wrote:
         | What the heck are people talking about with the quick swap
         | bands being an innovation?
         | 
         | Literally all the watches I own, from grandfathers antiques, to
         | modern Amazfits, all of them have the bands on a spring loaded
         | bar. Like... I don't remember the last time I have seen a
         | different mechanism.
         | 
         | There is a brief mention of this system as a "conventional" one
         | in the article
         | 
         | ```
         | 
         | Apple took the conventional spring bars of traditional watches,
         | miniaturized them, turned them on their sides, and embedded
         | them into the watch band.
         | 
         | ```
         | 
         | Complicating a simple solution for the sake of a flashy "flush"
         | finish, doesn't sound like an innovation.
        
           | delecti wrote:
           | I suspect people are downvoting because they're imagining the
           | older style of watch band spring bars. The older ones like
           | this [1] require a tool, dexterity, and also some luck that
           | it doesn't go flying across the room.
           | 
           | Bands with the newer style like this [2] can easily be done
           | without tools or any stellar dexterity, but are still a bit
           | more fiddly than how it seems Apple watches are. I'm betting
           | this is the type you're talking about, as it's the only kind
           | I've had to deal with across my ~decade of smartwatch use.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.bartonwatchbands.com/products/stainless-
           | steel-sp...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B9FQ3PXF/ref=ppx_yo_d
           | t_b...
        
           | yunohn wrote:
           | Spring bars are NOT easy to work with. They're easy to lose,
           | hard to attach/remove, and definitely not quick.
           | 
           | The Apple Watch release buttons are much better - takes
           | barely 5s to replace bands.
           | 
           | Additionally, it detaches the part that holds the band,
           | allowing for deeper customisation. This is the thing you
           | normally need screwdrivers for.
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | I don't know about your grandfather's watches, but non-smart
           | watches I've had that take standard bands require a
           | screwdriver.
        
             | high_priest wrote:
             | Rugged watches, outdooring ones, garmins, sure. They have
             | big bars which require a screwdriver. They are made to
             | first tear out your hand and then "maybe" break.
        
               | panopticon wrote:
               | I think Garmin switched all of their watches to the
               | QuickFit system at least 5 years ago.
        
               | jerlam wrote:
               | Quickfit is mostly concentrated on their larger/higher
               | end watches, like Fenix and up. Their lower end watches
               | (like the Forerunner 265) still have a quick release
               | spring bar.
               | 
               | In contrast, Casio G-Shocks, which are specifically built
               | to be rugged/fashionable, don't have any kind of quick
               | change mechanism. The strap is integrated into the case
               | that further protects the watch.
        
               | panopticon wrote:
               | > _Quickfit is mostly concentrated on their larger
               | /higher end watches, like Fenix and up. Their lower end
               | watches (like the Forerunner 265) still have a quick
               | release spring bar._
               | 
               | Ah, yeah. I was mostly addressing the "rugged watches"
               | comment, but yes that's absolutely correct.
        
           | spiffytech wrote:
           | The new thing seems to be attaching bands with bars that can
           | be removed with a fingernail, rather than a tiny screwdriver
           | or other pointy tool.
        
           | pavon wrote:
           | The spring bars are a pain. Many of my extended family don't
           | have the finger dexterity to operate them at all, and either
           | take them to the jewelry counter to replace or bring them to
           | me. The rest can change them, but hate the damn things and
           | take several tries sometimes with the bar flying across the
           | room and complain about it every time.
           | 
           | This isn't change for the sake of change, it is a genuine
           | improvement.
        
           | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
           | Also even cheap Casios had the feature to infinitely adjust
           | the strap they GP is talking about.
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | By using a tool to push out the pins? That's not even
             | remotely what GP is talking about. Look at their posted
             | video to understand the difference.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | The spring loaded bars are not very quick to swap.
        
           | onli wrote:
           | Spring loaded with a button to move them easily to the side?
           | Or spring loaded with the small rings to use a tool with?
           | 
           | My impression is that the button system did got more popular
           | over the last years, but it certainly existed many years
           | before. Hard to find sources though.
        
           | johnwalkr wrote:
           | Watches are jewelry, and regardless of who did it first,
           | making a reliable, easy-to-use flush strap system is an
           | innovation. I'd argue it's less complex for the user, it's
           | certainly easier to use.
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | Are you talking about the spring bars that you need a tool to
           | remove?
        
             | jjoonathan wrote:
             | If your fingernail is the right size and you are willing to
             | risk breaking it and impaling your fingertip and cracking
             | the body of your watch with the leverage and the band isn't
             | jammed to complicate the procedure, you can often make it
             | work without tools.
             | 
             | Yeah, the swap button is a big improvement.
        
           | NikolaNovak wrote:
           | The spring bars are not a quick swap and they are not easy or
           | painless. I have a small watch collection and a larger strap
           | collection :P, but I'd never call it easy or convenient.
           | 
           | Now, there are some straps, even in budget category, that
           | have a small lever that manipulates the spring and it's
           | fairly easy to switch - but only if all your straps have the
           | same mechanism. This is then compounded by different widths
           | and types and whatnots.
           | 
           | As ever, Apple reaps the benefits (as well as drawbacks) of
           | the basically single hardware device - you can build a
           | massive ecosystem around a predictable, controlled, singular,
           | homogeneous product line.
           | 
           | Or to put it other way - any one of my friends or family can
           | and do change apple watch straps. 96% of them would be either
           | unable or unwilling or both to change a regular strap. Even
           | myself, I prefer the Nato straps on my regular watches as
           | they are easier to swap than conventional straps.
        
             | somat wrote:
             | As a fellow convert to the church of the nato strap this
             | made me lookup the situation for the apple watch.
             | Unfortunately a real contentious nato strap is incompatible
             | with the watch due to it's wrist sensors. So you end up
             | with two piece nylon straps calling themselves nato bands.
             | I guess if you were fine being classified dead by your
             | watch you could probably put a nato band on one.
             | 
             | The casio g-shock has a problem with nato bands as well.
             | the g-shock has a laughably small band pin width(16 mm). so
             | to get a nato strap(24 mm) on one you need a band width
             | adapter. which undoes most of the advantage of the nato
             | strap. I am not really sure why they made it so small. My
             | mechanical engineering is a bit weak does a small pin have
             | less side load than a large pin?
        
           | jclardy wrote:
           | I have mechanical watches and an Apple Watch...I swap bands
           | on my Apple Watch almost every day because it takes about 5
           | seconds. I've swapped bands on my mechanicals maybe once this
           | year, because it is super finicky, the spring bar always
           | launches into another dimension and you spend 10 minutes
           | feeling around on the floor to find it. All while you risk
           | scratching the finish on your watch as you try to push back a
           | tiny metal spring with a tiny metal pick. And that is if you
           | have a springbar tool available, which is the best case
           | scenario.
        
       | falcolas wrote:
       | Ironically enough, I've picked up some adapters so I can use
       | regular watch bands with my Apple Watch. There are just more
       | options (that I like) using regular watch bands, and most decent
       | (i.e. >= $20) watch bands now use quick release spring bars,
       | making them stupidly simple to change (and not lose said bars).
        
       | its-summertime wrote:
       | The complication sounds somewhat like a soft DRM for hardware:
       | Requiring third parties to potentially have a looser fit etc if
       | they can't get the mechanism right
        
         | Kirby64 wrote:
         | It's apparently not particularly hard. There's oodles of
         | vendors selling sub-$10 straps that have a very tight fit, in
         | my view. I've got an actual Apple band that is 'loose' in
         | comparison (very small amount of side-to-side motion).
        
       | larelli wrote:
       | The article goes to great lengths to describe the difficulties in
       | manufacturing and assembling the mechanism in the band itself but
       | then also mentions that there a large ecosystem of third-party
       | bands available. How do all those get made? Does every
       | manufacturer have to use the same high-precision machines?
        
         | elzbardico wrote:
         | I've got two third-party straps. Basically, only the middle
         | button in the strap works and attaches to the middle notch.
         | Most of the time this is enough to keep the strap in place. But
         | it is not as nearly as secure as it is with the original Apple
         | strap. I use the original one when doing stuff like playing
         | tennis or squash.
        
           | interpol_p wrote:
           | I had no idea that third party straps connected differently!
           | Thanks for the info.
           | 
           | I have had two third party straps tear off, once during
           | boxing and once while playing with my kids. The (much
           | pricier) Apple ones never have, and so I only use those for
           | sport as well.
        
             | elzbardico wrote:
             | Once I had a third-party strap tearing off while I was
             | cycling. I was lucky it happened during a break. Since
             | then, I only use original apple straps for any sport.
        
             | kreetx wrote:
             | Surprised that you don't take the watch off during boxing,
             | is that supported? (Not saying you can't do whatever you
             | want with it, just that are they really that durable?)
        
         | microtherion wrote:
         | The strap side of the mechanism is much simpler than the watch
         | side, and I suspect that for some styles of bands, you can even
         | obtain fasteners from some wholesale manufacturer and attach
         | them to your band, instead of fiddling with the dimensions
         | yourself.
        
       | JustSomeNobody wrote:
       | > Most watch users don't know how to change the strap and I bet
       | pre-Apple Watch, many didn't realize that was an option
       | 
       | Hmmm... what's this little springy thing on my Garmin watch? Oh!
       | check that out! I can replace the bands!
       | 
       | Apple makes cool stuff, I even have some of it, but stop suckin'
       | their butts.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | The Garmins I've had before the Apple Watch was first released
         | involved getting out an Allen/Torx wrench to change the band.
         | It wasn't until _after_ the Apple Watch came out that I noticed
         | Garmin had quick-release bands. So, though there were arguably
         | quick-release bands before the Apple Watch, you picked a poor
         | example.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Anyone else noticed that looking at the top of your wrist for a
       | prolonged time is difficult because the joints that turn the
       | wrist are near an extreme point?
       | 
       | I think a more natural orientation of the screen is slightly more
       | down on the wrist.
        
         | jerlam wrote:
         | There was a period of time where manufacturers tried to solve
         | this problem, at least for athletes. There was the Timex OVA
         | (Optimum Viewing Angle) where the watch face was located at the
         | top of the wrist, using a very rigid strap:
         | 
         | https://kr.aving.net/news/articleViewAmp.html?idxno=10025
         | 
         | I had one. It looked strange, but the face was much more
         | visible. However, it also meant that the watch face had to be a
         | lot smaller.
         | 
         | There was also the Nike Triax which rotated the screen 45
         | degrees:
         | 
         | https://www.gq.com/story/nike-triax-watch
         | 
         | Both of these were phased out probably due to their weirdness.
         | And also because watches, even for athletes, play a role as
         | jewelry, especially in the social media age.
         | 
         | It's common in the military to wear your watch on the inside of
         | your wrist, where it's more visible but also less prone to
         | damage.
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | I actually find that turning the top of my wrist up is more
         | taxing than the top. Looking at the top of my wrist feels a lot
         | more natural to me.
         | 
         | OTOH, in doing it right now, I noticed that I also stick my
         | elbow out to make that happen, which isn't necessary for the
         | bottom of the wrist, so perhaps that's the difference. Without
         | sticking my elbow out, the watch would be at the wrong angle to
         | view, though, in either situation. (It'd be 90 degrees out.)
        
         | namdnay wrote:
         | The underside of your wrist is far more natural, but it means
         | it's harder to show off :)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | stronglikedan wrote:
       | Proprietary? Fitbits have had these buttons since forever. And my
       | Samsung has something similar, but in the pins, but just as easy
       | to manipulate. This isn't an Apple thing, lol.
        
         | dzikimarian wrote:
         | At least weekly, there has to be article about Apple. It must
         | describe something that, in case of other company, would be met
         | with a shrug at most. It will be on the front page.
         | 
         | That's the law.
        
       | arek_nawo wrote:
       | > Most watch users don't know how to change the strap and I bet
       | pre-Apple Watch, many didn't realize that was an option.
       | 
       | Although Apple has a history of simplifying and popularising
       | various things, I thinks it's a bit of an overstatement. Could it
       | be that people were influenced by marketing and "fashionable"
       | image of various bands that they began collecting and switching
       | them as desired?
       | 
       | For me at least, a few of my older watches and smartwatches had
       | an option to change bands, though I never used them. With my
       | first and current AW 7 I only used this "feature" to first change
       | the default band and after that only recently once my previous
       | one got worn out.
        
       | musictubes wrote:
       | The stainless link bands are amazing too. I wondered why the
       | Swiss hadn't made resizing the band so easy. Then I realized that
       | being forced to go to a jewelers/watch shop is a feature for
       | them.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | The realization that anything over a $12 F-91W is more jewelry
         | than a timepiece helps explain much of the watch market. Once
         | you own _more than one_ watch you 're gonna get many of them,
         | which is something some watchmakers count on.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | This is one area I think Apple has done a pretty good job in.
           | They'll happily sell you a basic watch with a nice elastomer
           | band for a few hundred bucks. This is the smartwatch
           | equivalent of that F-91W. But Casio can't sell you a fancy
           | F-91W that looks stylish and makes them an extra thousand
           | bucks in profit.
        
             | rocketbop wrote:
             | Well you can actually buy a $4000 Casio GShock. They also
             | have the Casio Oceanus line which are fancy and expensive.
             | The $20 Casios are just the gateway drug and a lot of
             | people with one Casio tend to have many.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | It has worked so well for Apple that I'm honestly surprised
             | they haven't gone down the "bling route" with the iPhone,
             | limited edition super-high end status symbol phones.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | That is a good point. I think the most expensive case you
               | can buy for an iPhone from Apple is about $60. Even if
               | you check off all available options you still can't break
               | $2000 for a new iPhone. But there are third-party cases
               | costing multiple thousands of dollars, so there must be
               | _some_ market for it. Though I suspect Apple knows more
               | about the size of that market than I do. Still, I 'm
               | surprised they don't even try to sell an ugly Hermes
               | multi color case for $600.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Apple isn't really in the business of low volume
               | luxury/status goods. Yeah, some people will mock Apple
               | users as status-seeking. But, really, everything Apple
               | sells may not be bargain goods but they're a pretty long
               | throw from one of those many Vegas clothing etc. stores
               | where, at least figuratively, I couldn't buy a single
               | item--or at least wouldn't even consider it.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | But they do sell $600 Hermes watchbands. And the
               | stainless steel watch, which is essentially a designer
               | choice. So a designer phone case would be a decent analog
               | to that. I'm actually surprised $59 is the most expensive
               | case they sell.
        
               | BirAdam wrote:
               | The primary thing here is the Hermes band is made by
               | Hermes and sold in Apple's stores. They don't actually
               | make it.
               | 
               | Apple will make higher-end stuff if they continue to have
               | trouble selling new hardware tho. I expect that they'd
               | actually go both directions, more low-end and more high-
               | end.
        
               | DHPersonal wrote:
               | They've tried it with their watches.
               | 
               | https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-hermes/
               | https://www.techradar.com/news/why-apple-gave-up-on-
               | its-18-k...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | alden5 wrote:
         | There is a 7$ watch link remover on amazon with prime one-day
         | shipping where i'm at, apple's no-tool bands cost $350+. there
         | isn't some sorta collusion between watchmakers and jewelers
         | when bands are designed with a simple pin link mechanism.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I have a whole boatload of straps -almost none, Apple straps.
       | 
       | You can buy all kinds of knockoff (and surprisingly high-quality)
       | straps on Amazon, for $50 or less (many of mine were about $15).
       | 
       | Apple, on the other hand, charges eye-watering prices for fairly
       | basic straps.
       | 
       | All that said, the last few years, I've just been getting the
       | stainless steel variants of the Watch (I currently have an 8),
       | and use a metal band that I got for about $25[0].
       | 
       | The Apple version of a similar band is ... _slightly more
       | expensive_ [1].
       | 
       | [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09JWLYLG5/
       | 
       | [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MUHJ2AM/A/38mm-silver-
       | lin...
        
         | WA wrote:
         | I'm usually in the camp of buying official Apple accessories,
         | because the details matter and are better than in knockoffs.
         | Stuff like the strength of the magnets in the stainless
         | wristbands.
         | 
         | But: I have the silver Milanese that came with my Series 5 and
         | noticed that it destroys the fabric of my long sleeve button
         | shirts. Quite annoying that this apparently didn't receive the
         | same thoughtful care like other Apple products.
        
         | mirkules wrote:
         | It is mind-boggling to me that something so frivolous is a $1B
         | industry. Watch straps to me are completely functional. Sure,
         | I'll _pick_ a better-looking strap, but I would never pay extra
         | - especially not the exorbitant amount Apple charges - for
         | looking "pretty".
         | 
         | Just goes to show that all my assumptions about what makes a
         | product popular/profitable are wrong.
         | 
         | P.S. I do have the Apple watch anyway. My strap requirements
         | are: breathable, can be removed easily, doesn't pinch arm hair.
        
           | stouset wrote:
           | I find that the people who say things like this are the same
           | folk who will spend extra on a gaming PC battlestation that
           | has color-coordinated neon lighting from the chassis, monitor
           | backlighting, and on their keyboard.
           | 
           | People value aesthetics. Not everything in life is purely
           | functional. Maybe you don't personally appreciate the beauty
           | of a nice wristwatch strap, and that's fine. But I can
           | virtually guarantee that there's some area of your life where
           | you have spent additional dollars on a widget to gain some
           | additional aesthetic value above and beyond what was purely
           | functional. You simply did so on objects _you personally_
           | care about. You likely have even done so without being
           | consciously aware of this decision! Someone else with
           | different preferences could easily look at that purchase and
           | boggle at how anyone could spend extra on something so
           | pointless.
           | 
           | And if you really, truly, have never spent extra time,
           | effort, or money on something you'd appreciated for its
           | beauty? To me, that's... just kind of depressing.
        
             | mirkules wrote:
             | I think my comment was misinterpreted, judging by both
             | comments to it.
             | 
             | What I meant to say, wrist straps were not even on my radar
             | of aesthetics, and I was shocked to learn it's a $1B
             | business (for Apple alone?). So clearly, I missed how much
             | they mean to people.
             | 
             | Obviously, I (and pretty much everyone else) do buy things
             | at least partially influenced by aesthetics (clothing,
             | sunglasses, furniture, to name a few). Wrist straps were a
             | huge surprise for me, though. Another one is paying a
             | premium for different colored phones (and I admit I was
             | first in line to pay a premium for a jet black RAZR phone
             | back in the day)
        
           | SenHeng wrote:
           | I was in a discussion about a decade ago on the topic of form
           | following function. People were arguing that decorative bits
           | were unnecessary and detract from the beautiful form of
           | something that's functionally pure. A creative director that
           | works with several name brands you've heard of ended the
           | conversation there by replying that decoration serves a
           | different kind of function, mainly communication. If
           | engineers had their way, most products would have nothing but
           | cubes and spheres. In this sense, decoration would be
           | rounding the edges of a cube to communicate that the product
           | is kid friendly, fun to play with and will not hurt if you
           | step on it. Conversely, sharpening the overly round corners
           | helps convey that the product is a serious tool for serious
           | business.
           | 
           | I'm paraphrasing because here because this is so long ago but
           | I hope you get the point. Apple doesn't make products that
           | 'just look pretty', they also tend to be highly functional.
           | (As long as you're not holding it wrong.)
        
         | manuelabeledo wrote:
         | I own a bunch of straps too. While I think that Apple charges a
         | premium on their straps, I'm sure that the quality and
         | durability is not comparable on average.
         | 
         | For example, I got a couple of knock off silicone bands for my
         | wife. They almost immediately started to peel and broke after a
         | few trips to the ocean. The original ones seem to retain the
         | same soft touch feeling.
         | 
         | On the other hand, Apple silicone bands are quite bad compared
         | to Nomad sport bands.
        
           | r0m4n0 wrote:
           | I bought the $20 metal Amazon dupe of the stainless steel
           | link band that runs $349 from apple. 4 years in and the
           | knockoff is still going strong
        
         | Bud wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | unshavedyak wrote:
         | Related, can anyone recommend 3rd party straps they like? I
         | used to have a wood strap and i loved it but it broke (wood and
         | all). It was good quality, i'm just rough with them i think.
         | Now that i'm back on the regular Apple strap.. i miss the nicer
         | one.
         | 
         | Curious if anyone has recommendations.
         | 
         |  _(Sidenote, man i don 't think i could buy that $25 metal
         | strap.. i'd assume it was junk lol)_
        
           | jonny_eh wrote:
           | I just started wearing this one:
           | https://mobyfox.com/products/sega-genesis-3d-smartwatch-band
           | 
           | Not the most comfortable, but it's fun to look at.
        
           | jghn wrote:
           | I've had good luck with bands from Barton & Nomad.
           | 
           | For a while I was doing the < $15 on amazon path, but
           | switched to some of the above and never looked back.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | _> i 'd assume it was junk lol_
           | 
           | It's not. I've been using the same band for years. I am
           | constantly taking it off, and putting it back on, so the
           | butterfly latch gets lots of exercise.
           | 
           | The Apple band is nicer, but ... I got one that is likely an
           | exact replica of it (including the quick-release buttons on
           | the links -which is silly, because you only take them out
           | once, unless you plan to gain a bunch of weight), for $60.
           | 
           | I don't even know if you can spend more than $60 on Amazon,
           | for one of these things.
           | 
           | I have a bunch of wood bands (I literally have several dozen
           | bands).
           | 
           | However, the ones I like the most are "hybrid" ones:
           | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071NV2GF4/
           | 
           | I got that, five years ago (I still have it, and it's fine).
           | I don't know if they make the same one, anymore.
        
           | thoughtpalette wrote:
           | I've purchased a few from Nyloon I've been happy with. The
           | canvas ones do take a little bit to break in.
           | 
           | I've also only recently discovered the Etsy category from
           | somewhere in this post.
           | 
           | https://www.nyloon.net/
        
           | themadturk wrote:
           | My wife and I both have Fulmosa metal watch straps, $23.99 at
           | Amazon [1]. Hers is blue, mine is black. Very comfortable,
           | easy to put on and take off. Mine is starting to show a
           | little wear in the paint on the links at the bottom of the
           | wrist, but my wrist doesn't get dirty. The links are a pain
           | to get off and on, of course, but they do provide a small
           | toolkit.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B096M9BQY5/ref=ppx_yo_d
           | t_b...
        
         | quirino wrote:
         | > Crafted from the same 316L stainless steel alloy as the case,
         | the Link Bracelet has more than 100 components. The machining
         | process is so precise, it takes nearly nine hours to cut the
         | links for a single band. The custom butterfly closure folds
         | neatly within the bracelet. And several links feature a simple
         | release button, so you can add and remove links without any
         | special tools.
         | 
         | Apple makes their watchband sound like the absolute pinnacle of
         | engineering. I do agree Apple accessories are generally
         | ridiculously expensive. Phone cases, chargers...
        
           | mikeyouse wrote:
           | What kills me is that you can't rely on them, even with all
           | that engineering and cost. I was tired of 3rd party combo
           | chargers failing for wireless charging + charging a watch --
           | Apple's costs _$130_ but I figured at least it was one thing
           | I wouldn 't have to worry about ever again.
           | (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHXF3AM/A/magsafe-duo-
           | cha...)
           | 
           | The piece of shit failed after maybe 3 months, it just
           | wouldn't charge the phone and my spouse would wake up with a
           | completely dead battery in the morning. Forums are littered
           | with people with similar problems.
           | 
           | Same thing with their shitty expensive cases -- terrible
           | peeling with moderate use. Drives me crazy you can pay so
           | much for such a terrible quality 'premium' product.
        
             | bdcravens wrote:
             | I guess my wife and I have been lucky, as we each have the
             | same charger, with no issues. Before that I had a Nomad
             | wireless charger with a watch charger, and it worked well
             | enough. I just wanted something that have full speed
             | Magsafe charging, and was super portable. What did you
             | switch to?
        
               | mikeyouse wrote:
               | Honestly just gave up on the wireless aspect -- still use
               | the MagSafe one for the watch charger and then a corded
               | phone charger.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | People don't buy a product, they buy a story, and that
           | description you quote is definitely a story.
        
         | woobar wrote:
         | I would agree that third-party knockoffs of plastic or textile
         | straps are great. The metal ones are just not worth it. Unless
         | you like dirty wrists and peeling paint, I'd avoid them. just
         | look at the reviews for the one you've posted [1]
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R1TW5ISDWA84PV/re...
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | Yup, but I just got the basic stainless steel one.
           | 
           | It can give my wrist a dark "shadow," if I am sweating a lot,
           | but otherwise, it's been fine.
           | 
           | I have a ton of straps. Some of the non-metal ones are total
           | garbage, and peel and crack.
           | 
           | If they had an "interim" variant, for around $100, I would
           | consider that. I have a Junghans Apollo, that I got their
           | full-fat strap for, and that was $150. That watch cost more
           | than any of the (current) Apple Watches, and I haven't worn
           | it in years.
        
             | woobar wrote:
             | Yeah, I've meant "stainless steel" when I mentioned dirty
             | wrists.
        
               | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
               | Would not be at all surprised, if the Apple band did the
               | same (my Junghans one does).
               | 
               | Not gonna drop $350, to find out.
               | 
               | It's no big deal, and only happens occasionally.
        
               | woobar wrote:
               | I had few Amazon SS bands, and they all were leaving dark
               | marks. Apple's Silver Milanese Loop is stain free. Also
               | price difference is not that bad compared to knockoffs.
        
       | Maxburn wrote:
       | Springbars with quick release are far easier to use and more
       | compatible.
       | 
       | I've always thought that the apple design adds a LOT of size to
       | the watch head with the way they intrude inside the case. If they
       | didn't do that and had the standard horns/lugs that every other
       | watch has the watch head could be smaller. Also occurs to me that
       | might be a desired result though so they can have a bigger
       | display.
        
         | Bud wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | ant6n wrote:
       | I find these descriptions incomprehensible. Its like explanations
       | written for ppl who already know the thing. Some labelled images
       | or videos or before/after comparisons might help.
        
         | Tempest1981 wrote:
         | Agreed. I'm having trouble visualizing the layout of buttons 1,
         | 2, and 3. I wonder if the author actually understands it well
         | enough to explain, vs simply repeating what he was told.
         | 
         | And is the spring part of the band? That's how I read this:
         | 
         | > showing the band and its internal spring and tooth system
         | mounted within the band slot.
        
         | _Microft wrote:
         | Even an image that clearly labels the buttons with one to three
         | would have been an improvement already.
        
       | KennyBlanken wrote:
       | > "The number of people who lived in the factory getting these
       | machines up and running, 24/7 sleeping bags on the floor, is not
       | zero. People's whole lives to get that one slot perfect."
       | 
       | Why do companies brag about this sort of thing? That's not
       | something to be proud of. Hell, in my state, that would be a
       | workplace violation (one mandatory day of rest every 7 days, and
       | I believe mandatory minimum rest between shifts, 10 hours I
       | think?)
       | 
       | That 24/7 nonsense with sleeping bags on the floor wasn't to get
       | that one slot perfect....it was to get the slot perfect _on an
       | unrealistic schedule set by management._
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | > Why do companies brag about this sort of thing?
         | 
         | I don't think Apple has made any such claims. This is "ex-
         | engineers" as quoted by The Verge. I take everything in the
         | article with a grain of salt, I expect it has been embellished.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | When a masochist gets seniority or becomes management, they
         | become a sadist.
        
         | BirAdam wrote:
         | I had a moment of discomfort when reading that as well, and I
         | had a very similar thought. Why is this a brag-worthy thing?
         | Why are people valuing that level of dedication to a megacorp?
         | A decent amount of this is cultural in the USA; at least, it is
         | in my experience. A certain percentage of Americans tend to
         | value extremely hard work as well as the willingness to
         | sacrifice for that hard work without any context or
         | equivocation. Putting in 80 to 90 hour weeks to make
         | billionaires a little bit richer? Absolutely! "I did it, and
         | look how awesome I am! You should do it too!" Meanwhile, on
         | their death beds, many Americans show regret for spending so
         | much time at work and so little time with their families.
        
       | dom96 wrote:
       | I was today years old when I learned about these buttons...
        
       | oatmeal1 wrote:
       | It's a shame a technology publication can't invest in someone to
       | create a visualization of the mechanism in action. Words are a
       | poor way to describe what is happening.
        
         | garyfirestorm wrote:
         | the typical mindset in many fields - purity! 'something along
         | the lines, why should english majors learn to code or know 3D
         | modeling' this closed off mindset is prevalent even in higher
         | ed. sometimes even in engineering - many of my mechanical engg.
         | friends looked down on writing basic python code or know
         | anything about electronics and controls - 'thats not my
         | problem!' they said.
        
       | seanalltogether wrote:
       | Is there an animation of this in action, I don't think I'm
       | getting a real understanding of whats happening from just the
       | text and pictures.
        
         | Maxburn wrote:
         | You push the button and the band is released to slide out the
         | side in either direction. Slide it in from the side and it
         | locks automatically.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8b_MzNyHmE
        
       | frantathefranta wrote:
       | I've been hanging on to my original band from when I bought my
       | Series 7 watch, partly because I'm not sure I trust amazon bands
       | that seem to cost a fraction of the price of the OEM bands. If
       | they fail, I'll get a ding on the watch at best or a broken
       | screen at worst. This did make me trust the off-brand bands a
       | little more, since they seem to require a better mechanism that
       | my previous swappable-band watch had.
        
         | browningstreet wrote:
         | I've long wondered why Swatch didn't get into the Apple Watch
         | band business.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | Its an Apple proprietary system and as such there will be a
           | large licensing cost, including most likely a per unit
           | payment designed to let the 3rd party make the most paper
           | thin of margins.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _Its an Apple proprietary system and as such there will
             | be a large licensing cost..._
             | 
             | That's incorrect.
             | https://developer.apple.com/accessories/watch-bands/
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | Fair enough, I dug further into it and the bands are one
               | of 2 apple technologies which do not require licensing.
               | Cases and watch bands.
               | 
               | https://mfi.apple.com/en/who-should-join
               | 
               |  _Who does not need to join:
               | 
               | Developers and manufacturers of non-electronic
               | accessories, including non-MagSafe cases and Apple Watch
               | bands_
               | 
               | I apologise for my previous incorrect statements.
        
             | browningstreet wrote:
             | And yet there are tons of official watch band makers.
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | Yes there are plenty of companies out there who will
               | happily run their business with quantity of sales over
               | quality of margin, however larger companies such as
               | Swatch usually need a larger slice of the pie to make it
               | worthwhile.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _most likely a per unit payment designed to let the 3rd
             | party make the most paper thin of margins._
             | 
             | Swatch doesn't make $20 disposable watches anymore. I was
             | in a Swatch store a couple of weeks ago, and the majority
             | were in the $150-$200 range, with some going for $500 or
             | more.
             | 
             | Swatch can afford to license the connector.
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | The point is not that they cant afford the license its
               | that when they are selling their own products for
               | hundreds of dollers, probably with $50 or more profit
               | margin per unit, then making $2 profit per unit on a
               | strap after licensing costs is not worth the
               | manufacturing investment for such a big company.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | I can just imagine Maude Flanders: "Oh, won't somebody
               | think of the profits!"
               | 
               |  _not worth the manufacturing investment for such a big
               | company._
               | 
               | Isn't the whole point of being a big company that you can
               | make big investments that a small company can't?
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | Being a big company may help in a lot of ways:
               | easier/cheaper to re-use existing expertise, ability to
               | make a larger number of speculative investments, often
               | greater brand awareness, ability to sell products to an
               | existing customer base, and others.
               | 
               | It doesn't help nearly as much to overcome fundamentally
               | unattractive unit economics (unless scale can make them
               | later become attractive).
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | It's complicated.
               | 
               | You _can_ make larger investments. But, while you may
               | have economies of scale for certain things, you probably
               | also have overheads up and down and across the company
               | for everything you do.
        
           | varenc wrote:
           | Swatch primarily makes money selling watches, so they
           | probably think it'd be a bad look if they made watches for
           | another brand, tacitly endorsing it.
        
             | browningstreet wrote:
             | True, but volume growth has taken a hit. High end Swiss
             | watch sales are climbing but overall watch sales are down.
             | Swatch has the moon watches and such, but their pop watch
             | market could reasonably be at risk against smart watches.
        
               | rocketbop wrote:
               | Swatch Group is so huge with so many brands like Omega,
               | Longines, Hamilton, etc, I'm sure they look at the market
               | holistically.
        
         | ericabiz wrote:
         | I have owned Apple Watches since the Series 2. (Currently on an
         | SE 2) I have always used third-party watch bands I get off
         | Aliexpress--much cheaper than Amazon if you're patient with
         | shipping. Zero issues with the latch mechanism.
        
       | graypegg wrote:
       | Surprised there isn't a MFI program for 3rd party Apple Watch
       | bands that provides the connectors only. (At some inflated unit
       | price of course)
       | 
       | Or maybe 3rd party bands are only viable in the low cost side of
       | the market, and apple just owns the high side.
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | These aren't buttons
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Yeah this is pretty cool, when I first checked out my watch I was
       | fascinated by how it worked, and I knew there was some mechanical
       | trickery as it didn't make sense if you just looked at it.
        
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