[HN Gopher] How Iceweasel Was Born (2016)
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       How Iceweasel Was Born (2016)
        
       Author : alraj
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2023-05-29 06:59 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcworld.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcworld.com)
        
       | sircastor wrote:
       | People can be really petty, can't they?
       | 
       | I was actually under the impression that Ice Weasel was not
       | merely rebranded Firefox, but a cleverly named competitor.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | What's petty about it? Mozilla is well within their rights to
         | not want something to use their trademark when it's been
         | modified (I mean, I probably wouldn't care as much, but they're
         | allowed to), and Debian certainly shouldn't be shipping
         | software that has restrictions like that.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | teachrdan wrote:
       | "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly
       | it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels
       | come."
       | 
       | Is it debunked that the name came from this Simpsons quote?
        
       | tedunangst wrote:
       | I hope this comment doesn't summon the Mozilla police, but
       | openbsd (and freebsd, et al) shipped a patched version of Firefox
       | called Firefox the whole time this saga was going on.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Pretty sure this is the 1980s origin of iceweasel:
       | https://twitter.com/gray/status/1228221063902793728
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then
         | suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the
         | ice weasels come."                  Love is Hell, Matt Groening
         | 1986
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | What I posted was a page from that book
        
             | jonhohle wrote:
             | What he posted was a text translation of what you posted
             | containing the relevant content.
        
               | mike_hock wrote:
               | What he posted was a text _transcription._ The original
               | was already in English.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Sort of important and stupid at the same time. If you invent
       | yourself around licence issues then you invite disagreement to
       | licence terms and respect for the authority inherent in a licence
       | drives you to this place.
       | 
       | But as an edge user it feels pretty "mummy and daddy are
       | fighting" Stupid.
        
         | supermatt wrote:
         | > If you invent yourself around licence issues
         | 
         | Mozilla is the party that lost out here - not debian. Mozilla
         | basically reduced their brand presence for a decade for no
         | benefit whatsoever. Debian still got the browser, but under a
         | different name.
        
           | mnw21cam wrote:
           | Agreed - it was very much a case of Debian taking the
           | reasonable stance that it had standards that required it to
           | only use free stuff, and wanting to have Firefox available to
           | install, and then Mozilla requiring that they not call it
           | Firefox, which they then quite willingly and correctly
           | complied with.
        
           | warent wrote:
           | Maybe a trust issue? e.g. Mozilla did not want the Debian
           | team the ability to create some strangely modified version of
           | Firefox that would be mistakenly connected to Mozilla.
           | 
           | Back then perhaps there was not enough context to know that
           | Debian could be trusted.
           | 
           | The interesting thing is that the pain actually did go both
           | ways. The lack of Firefox and the need for Iceweasel actually
           | confused me as a young developer, and put me off Linux for a
           | long time, because it made it feel like a cheap knock-off. I
           | was unaware that they were otherwise identical.
        
             | ltbarcly3 wrote:
             | Did Internet Explorer make you think Windows was junk or
             | did you just download Firefox like everyone else?
             | 
             | You can.. I mean people know this right.. You can download
             | software on Linux and run it just like on Windows.
        
               | NegativeK wrote:
               | One of the really nice things about distros is letting
               | them manage all or almost all of the software you've
               | installed, versus wandering around on the internet and
               | hoping you didn't click on malvertising or wondering if
               | the ssh client you're grabbing is actually legit.
               | 
               | The Windows model of zero trust in the bad way feels
               | absolutely bizarre in comparison.
        
               | ltbarcly3 wrote:
               | I agree, package managers are great. However why is that
               | a reason to avoid linux?
        
             | zokier wrote:
             | > Back then perhaps there was not enough context to know
             | that Debian could be trusted.
             | 
             | You are implying that it is clear-cut that Debian is
             | trustworthy here. In practice Debian did, and continues to
             | do, heavy patching of packages to their needs, sometimes
             | contrary to upstreams wishes. Iirc one of the issues here
             | was the bug reports that Mozilla received that were in
             | reality Debian-specific
        
               | asveikau wrote:
               | 2006 was around the time where they zero-initialized an
               | entropy buffer in openssl to silence valgrind or similar
               | tools. So the idea that debian would seriously botch a
               | package was not so far fetched.
               | 
               | That said, I used Debian, and didn't mind seeing
               | iceweasel. It was kind of amusing, in fact.
        
               | iforgotpassword wrote:
               | That was pretty rad. Debian could generate up to 65536
               | different keypairs!!1
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | People, at least the people that I know who use Debian as their
         | preferred desktop OS care a lot about Debian's stance on
         | licenses.
        
           | bravetraveler wrote:
           | Fedora is similarly firm [but slightly more amenable] about
           | licensing -- I just wish they made a better effort of
           | communicating it
           | 
           | ie: the recent removal of patent encumbered codecs from Mesa
           | 
           | People expecting Canonical-levels of disregard are bound to
           | be disappointed
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | NegativeK wrote:
         | I understood both Mozilla and Debian's stance during the
         | Iceweasel era, and I thought they were both being pretty
         | reasonable.
        
       | callahad wrote:
       | [2016]
       | 
       | Amusingly enough, Zuckerberg's character in the 2010 film The
       | Social Network uses Iceweasel on KDE.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-31 23:02 UTC)