[HN Gopher] Filial Piety in Chinese Culture (2016)
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Filial Piety in Chinese Culture (2016)
Author : yamrzou
Score : 45 points
Date : 2023-05-29 17:36 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (china-journal.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (china-journal.org)
| PicassoCTs wrote:
| https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln270/24-...
|
| My personal paragon favorite: He who tasted his fathers feces and
| worried.
| Natsu wrote:
| Didn't see that one, but there's a 6 year old boy who stole
| three oranges for his mother.
| echlebek wrote:
| This site got flagged by noscript for a possible XSS attack,
| seems like it might just be sloppily embedded tumblr content
| though
| AdrianEGraphene wrote:
| Learning this term was required to move on to the next belts in
| my Taekwondo classes, thought it was a South Korean thing, but I
| guess not. I've only ever heared of Filial Piety a few times out
| of that environment.
| lavishlatern wrote:
| Imperial China is basically the Greek/Roman empire of East
| Asia. Both of these civilizations made deep and lasting impact
| on the culture of East Asia and Europe/North Africa/West Asia
| respectively.
|
| Confucius is like Chinese Plato/Socrates.
| witchesindublin wrote:
| China only really had a strong impact in China and Korea -
| though a lot of Chinese people tend to overstate their impact
| for cultural chauvinism. Outside of possibly the Viet region
| as well, Chinese culture has had little impact. Imperial
| Chinese culture has had relatively little impact in the rest
| of East Asia (Philippines, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia,
| Indonesia etc...), and most of the Chinese culture in these
| regions is from recent immigration in the past century or so.
|
| EDIT: not sure why the post is being negged considering it's
| basically true. I suggest people actually travel around the
| region and find out how little Chinese culture has impacted
| East Asia. I am a long term resident of East Asia and I
| understand the culture more than most Chinese people.
| DiogenesKynikos wrote:
| It's easy to come up with many examples of major Chinese
| cultural elements in the surrounding countries.
|
| I'll give just one obvious example: Kanji. Kanji is
| obviously a major part of Japanese culture. It literally
| means "Chinese characters," because that's what it was
| adapted from.[0]
|
| Or to give you just one more example, because it's
| incredibly striking: Japan's own name for itself,
| Nihon/Nippon, is borrowed from Chinese. The same is
| actually true of "Vietnam," which is also a loanword from
| Chinese.
|
| 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji
| witchesindublin wrote:
| But relative impact is low. Latin and Indian scripts are
| used throughout Asia as well, including Japan. i.e. to
| say that it is the "greece of asia" is a bit over-
| chauvinistic.
| DiogenesKynikos wrote:
| Somewhere around half of the words in modern Korean,
| Japanese and Vietnamese are borrowed from Chinese. The
| impact of Chinese culture is massive across the board in
| these countries.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| China's influence on Japan has been huge... It's very odd
| to read a claim that Chinese culture has had little impact
| on Japan!
|
| Of course there are specifically Japanese aspects but more
| often than not there is Chinese influence. Architecture,
| writing, religion, dress, food, everywhere.
| cumshitpiss wrote:
| [dead]
| Thorrez wrote:
| >You can compare this with the practice of going to church in
| strictly Christian communities. Attending the mass is a
| ritualistic act. Whether a person is a true believer or not, is
| another matter.
|
| Maybe some communities are like this, but this isn't any sort of
| official Christian teaching.
|
| >For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not
| your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so
| that no one may boast.
|
| Ephesians 2:8-9
|
| >Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law
| but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in
| Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not
| by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be
| justified.
|
| Galatians 2:16
| local_crmdgeon wrote:
| Would any Chinese commenters like to weigh in here? I'd love a
| first-person perspective
| tomohelix wrote:
| Some people may say it is old and not as important as it once
| was. But imo that is like saying racism is an old and outdated
| mode of thinking in the US. It is still there and quite
| prevalent, but it is more out of sight yet whoever are
| interested in it still take it quite seriously.
| giraffe-flavor wrote:
| It's old and not very prevalent. The equivalent in western
| culture is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_chivalry
| which is to say that it is seen with rosy-colored glasses.
| bnjms wrote:
| I think you are mistaken. While people may no longer
| explicitly speak about it I see in Korean manhwa that the
| idea of using gifts to obligate a wealthy persons lessers, or
| being shrewed considering who to accept favors from one's
| betters to avoid owing obligations to, is a common theme and
| understanding it is an automatic assumption for readers. This
| seems to support that there remains an implied cultural norm.
|
| From the arrticle it sounds like the same thing you'd see
| within a western church but there it extends more weakly
| outside the family and ends outside the church.
| badrabbit wrote:
| You know this concept is in indian, korean and japanese cultures
| as well. A friend insists it is an asian culutural thing but I
| hard disagree, but I do understand I need to learn more.
|
| Outside of Europe, just about every society in the "old" world
| has this concept. You basically live for your parents and then
| also for your children. Parents use the pride and disappointment
| as ways to control the future of their child and children strive
| to become the perfect child.
|
| I'll give you an example: what immigrant ethnicities dominate
| medicine in the US? Indian, Nigerian, east asian. And the people
| I have spoken to largley attribute their parent's desire as the
| main/initial motivator for choosing such a difficult field.
|
| I'll say this, ancestor worship is only in some societies that
| are mostly asian (to my knowledge), that includes concepts like
| the way you live honors or displeases your ancestors who can
| bless or curse you in real time.
|
| It isn't jusr filial piety but piety towards elders. When I
| started watching east asian dramas many years ago, I kept
| thinking how their dramas reminded me of so many other cultures
| outside of asia.
|
| My theory is that even europe used to be this way pre-renaisance.
| Any society that had arranged marriages meant parents did the
| arranging to the most part. It is difficult for me to imagine
| allowing your parent to decide who you will be stuck with for the
| rest of your life without filial piety.
|
| Of course, I don't mean to suggest specific countries' concept of
| filial piety is unique and shouldn't be studied on it's own like
| this. Just pointing out that there are more non-western countries
| outside of asia that still follow this concept than there aren't.
| contingencies wrote:
| Look at a map of China. See the bit that sticks out to the
| east, toward Japan and Korea? That's the Shandong peninsula. At
| the western (inland) end of that is Qufu, where Confucius was
| born. Japan and Korea were influenced by Confucianism, as was
| Vietnam. This is the source of the English phrase "filial
| piety" with regard to East Asian cultures.
|
| India is a totally different beast.
|
| Source: Studied ancient Chinese history with an interest in
| broader Asian history and ancient philosophy. Lived in the
| region 20+ years. Have visited all of those countries and
| places.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism
| dheera wrote:
| "The western term filial piety was originally derived from
| studies of Western societies, based on Mediterranean
| cultures."
|
| Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_piety
|
| Vast portions of the world have some concept of filial piety,
| it is a local optimum for society in the absence of
| technology and modern conveniences, that so many cultures
| naturally converged on it. Go ask some Hispanics, South
| Asians, Southeast Asians, they all have some version of it
| that is really not far from the Confucian version.
|
| The big value shift happening now is that in a modern
| technological society, having children is optional, a
| personal choice, so parents are now expected to provide for
| the child if they make the choice to bring one into
| existence, without expecting anything in return. In the past,
| having a child was a necessity for the sustainability of the
| country (and even species, to a great extent) at large, so it
| was done by all, even parents who could not provide, so
| filial piety was the only way it could be sustained.
| worrycue wrote:
| > In the past, having a child was a necessity for the
| sustainability of the country
|
| I would argue it still is now unless you patch things with
| immigration (but that's just having another country do the
| work for you) or AGI becomes a thing.
| contingencies wrote:
| Sigh. Re-read what I wrote. You appear to be arguing with a
| straw man.
| witchesindublin wrote:
| As someone who actually lives in Japan for over a decade,
| you are wrong about the idea that the filal piety in East
| Asia comes from China. It is common but incorrect of many
| Chinese to overstate their impact on East Asia, but in
| reality the Chinese have had little impact on Japan and
| most of South East Asia (except for Vietnam) until recent
| immigration of Chinese in the last century.
| zztop44 wrote:
| I also live in Japan. I disagree with your take. I think
| the Chinese influence on Japan has been massive and
| enduring. I am not Chinese.
|
| Being long term residents of Japan doesn't make either of
| us experts on this matter. We're just two people who have
| interpreted our experiences differently. I understand you
| feel strongly about this (I also often find myself
| jumping to correct what I consider to be misconceptions
| about Japan, so I kind of get it) but I think you're
| overstating your opinion in this thread right now.
| witchesindublin wrote:
| That isn't actually that true for Japan and most of South
| East Asia. It's only the greater China region, Vietnam and
| Korea where Confucianism was a big thing.
| consilient wrote:
| This is not at all true: the Tokugawas _heavily_ patronized
| neo-Confucianism.
| witchesindublin wrote:
| But the relative impact has been pretty low, and its
| relevance to Japanese cultural development is also very
| low. Neo-Confucianism was mostly evident in South Korean
| culture, less in China, and basically down to very little
| in Japan.
| x3874 wrote:
| [flagged]
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