[HN Gopher] Rheinmetall pilot project for curb stone chargers fo...
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Rheinmetall pilot project for curb stone chargers for EVs
Author : giuliomagnifico
Score : 60 points
Date : 2023-05-29 15:14 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.rheinmetall.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.rheinmetall.com)
| newaccount74 wrote:
| On the one hand, I think that ICE cars should be banned from
| cities, the air would be much better, and these curbside chargers
| look like it could help with that.
|
| On the other hand, a city filled with parked EV cars is not very
| different from a city filled with ICE cars. Curbside parking
| should be abolished or at least significantly reduced. People
| should just park in underground garages and walk the remaining
| 200m, there's no need to have parking everywhere. It's much
| easier to install chargers in a garage.
| _hypx wrote:
| You might as well ban cars entirely at that point. The biggest
| criticism of EVs is that they are still cars. They are still
| the most resource and footprint intensive form of
| transportation out there.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I don't exactly see what banning ICE/promoting EV has to do
| with controlling curbside parking. It just has to be banned.
| Then the issue of compatibility between EV charging and
| mechanical parking[0] can be addressed.
|
| 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6blks7vfZog
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Rather than abolish curbside parking...reserve more of it for
| specific uses. Every block should have at least one space
| dedicated to delivery, one for services like maintenance/repair
| workers, another for drop-off, another for municipal/emergency.
| Allow standing and active loading/unloading in all but the
| emergency spaces.
|
| Also, we should not subsidize parking for private individuals
| (ie none of the uses above) in any way, shape, or form.
| kleiba wrote:
| Cologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman
| empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years.
| Where would all these underground parking lots come from?
|
| Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should be
| put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an idle
| stroll on green meadors above ground without all the annoyances
| that come from car traffic?
| wariwariwari wrote:
| [flagged]
| oblio wrote:
| Streets? No, that's where people live, work.
|
| Roads? Sure! Stroads, too
| (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad)
| ethanbond wrote:
| > Why not go a step further and demand that all roads should
| be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy an
| idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the
| annoyances that come from car traffic?
|
| Don't threaten me with a good time
| lmm wrote:
| > Cologne is a city with roots that reach back to the Roman
| empire. It has grown and developed over hundreds of years.
| Where would all these underground parking lots come from?
|
| If car parking is a worthwhile use of space, the market will
| provide it (and whether below or above ground is beside the
| point). If it's not, it won't.
|
| > Why not go a step further and demand that all streets
| should be put underground, too, so that pedestrians can enjoy
| an idle stroll on green meadors above ground without all the
| annoyances that come from car traffic?
|
| It's a good idea, but we probably have to get there
| incrementally.
| nickff wrote:
| Do you know how much each underground stall costs? It varies a
| bit, depending on where you are, but they're extremely
| expensive.
| hnthrowaway8860 wrote:
| Great idea to put things where dogs pee and poop.
| _Microft wrote:
| German dogs prefer trees and corners.
| joot82 wrote:
| Hydrants, lamps, bicycles, tires, ... anything that looks
| different from a standard curb. Not sure if doggy will be
| attracted by the cover when in ground, but by a nice
| oversized plug sticking out for sure.
| wongarsu wrote:
| People will shame dog owners who allow their dogs to pee or
| poop on chargers. Which won't completely eliminate the
| problem, but should limit it.
|
| Not sure that would work in the US though.
| jupp0r wrote:
| Right, because shaming dog owners has proven time over
| time to eliminate bad behavior effectively /s
| number6 wrote:
| Just once
| arnejenssen wrote:
| I foresee some UX challenges with ice and snow during winter.
| dermesser wrote:
| In Cologne, like many German towns, ice and snow is an issue
| about two weeks a year (in a cold year). And even then,
| that's what the city's road clearing services are for.
| pantalaimon wrote:
| Yea Climate Change already solved that one.
|
| I certainly remember proper Winters, but I understand they
| are a thing of the past.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| I think this is cool, but as the owner of a (non-Tesla) EV, I'd
| just be glad for chargers that usually _work_. People ask me
| sometimes if I have "range anxiety" - I don't really have range
| anxiety so much as _charger_ anxiety.
|
| When I'm not at home my options are pretty much Chargepoint
| chargers, and there is an Electrify America DC fast charging
| station about 20 mins away. I'd say about 50% of the time the
| Chargepoint stations are non-functional in some way (either
| totally busted and have been for years, or the station just says
| "offline" or some such). I haven't had problems with the EA
| chargers but going by online forums my experience seems to be
| unusual - for a lot of folks their EA experience is even worse
| than my Chargepoint success rate.
|
| If all these other car companies plan to go 100% electric in the
| near future, they really need to invest in better charging
| infrastructure. Say what you will about Tesla but they understood
| the criticality of solving this problem early on, and their
| network is currently far better than anyone else's.
| chroma wrote:
| The other car manufacturers will probably negotiate deals with
| Tesla to gain access to the supercharger network. Ford has
| already done this.[1]
|
| 1.
| https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023...
| tomtheelder wrote:
| I live in a high EV density region and it's already a complete
| non issue. We have a good number of providers around here, and
| they are all mostly extremely reliable. Most of the time when I
| go to charge it will be a bank of 6+ chargers. Occasionally one
| isn't working, but that's not much different from a gas pump
| being out of service. Worst case I can always drive down the
| street to another bank.
|
| Like a lot of stuff with EVs, it's just a question of demand
| reaching a certain level- which it will- before the services
| really hit their stride. It's already happened in a good few
| places, and it will happen where you live in time.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| When I lived in Seattle I survived on my 30 mile range plug
| in hybrid without using gas almost ever because I could
| charge at work and at stores. This was commuting from the
| suburbs to downtown. And it's only going to get better.
|
| Even in the Midwest I could do it but it would be slightly
| more of a hassle. Many grocery stores here already have free
| level 2 chargers. The distances are longer so I would
| definitely go full EV here if given the choice since at home
| garage charging is a given
| bad_alloc wrote:
| We don't need difficult to fix, hard to clean chargers in every
| curb. We need _maintainable_ chargers which are gauranteed to
| work in some convenient location. Ideally 11kW to 22kW chargers
| at work and shopping places and proper fast chargers at every
| highway stop. This will cover most drivers needs, as daily
| charging is not needed. What is important is to have every
| location always have free charging spots, since arriving to find
| a single charger occupied or broken is one of the most common
| frustrations of finding charging spots.
|
| Source: I drive an EV all the time.
| drewg123 wrote:
| I can't be certain, but it appears that the plugs are embedded in
| the curb stone and face directly upwards. What prevents water
| from collecting in them and causing a short?
| [deleted]
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| Short is actually better than the other more common failure
| mode - oxidation and creation of additional resistance in the
| connector to the point of not working at all (better case) or
| melting and catching fire when used (worse case)
| masfuerte wrote:
| Wouldn't you design it so water drains through?
| 650REDHAIR wrote:
| I wish I lived in a community where these wouldn't get fucked
| around with left out in the open...
|
| I've been renting an EV for the last two weeks while my hybrid
| awaits repairs and it's been a wonderful experience. I look
| forward to more charging options!
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| I was very surprised by the company they chose for it, but from
| this perspective, it's definitely a great choice. If someone
| knows how to make things indestructible, it's them.
|
| (Rheinmetall is generally known as a military supplier, think
| "General Dynamics" or "BAE Systems". I didn't realize they made
| _anything_ for civilian use.)
| tkanarsky wrote:
| Heh, like how Teledyne makes showerheads and Honeywell makes
| thermostats.
| glogla wrote:
| > (Rheinmetall is generally known as a military supplier,
| think "General Dynamics" or "BAE Systems". I didn't realize
| they made anything for civilian use.)
|
| Yeah, I read the title and thought "is it for tanks?"
| ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
| I expect to see a lot of cronyism and scams related to green tech
| yayo88 wrote:
| How would this work with the new regulations requiring the
| ability to offer at least two methods to pay for charging?
| pgeorgi wrote:
| RFID payment cards by various networks, app on the phone with
| NFC.
| unglaublich wrote:
| NFC A or NFC B?
| tempodox wrote:
| More EV chargers is a good idea, but having to bend down so far
| looks uncomfortable and may even be a problem for some people.
| nntwozz wrote:
| Looks great for those without back problems. Esthetics before
| function.
| kleiba wrote:
| I think that in the next iteraton, such curb stone chargers
| should be such that _no_ interaction like manually plugging in
| a cable would be required.
| meindnoch wrote:
| Sounds efficient! Totally doable!
| nntwozz wrote:
| Isn't that awfully inefficient and wasteful power transfer?
| kleiba wrote:
| Perhaps with today's technology, but not with the
| _technology of the future (tm)_.
| amenghra wrote:
| It's nicer to add plugs to lamp posts. If you can retrofit
| existing posts, there's less electrical/digging work involved. If
| not, you are adding lighting at the same time.
|
| E.g. https://ubitricity.com/en/charging-solutions/ac-lamppost/
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Does it become useful to carry your own charging cable?
| [deleted]
| jnsaff2 wrote:
| Most Type 2 (AC charging of 3,7 to 22kW) chargers expect you to
| have your own with the car. Pretty much everyone has one in
| their car.
| wmf wrote:
| In what country? I've never seen a bring-your-own-cable
| charger in the US.
| johne20 wrote:
| In the US it is not common. In EU the majority of EVs carry
| a cable in the vehicle for level 2 charging. At first I
| found it strange, but if you provide the cable instead
| having it built into level 2 EVSE (charger) its one less
| thing that can be broken or vandalized.
| jupp0r wrote:
| If I have to bring my own, it's one more thing of mine
| that can be broken or vandalized.
| jnsaff2 wrote:
| I'm in NE-EU. Here the state is:
|
| - fast chargers: CCS cable is with the charging stations.
|
| - many more public chargers (supermarket parking spots,
| office parking, IKEA) are usually Type 2, I'd say about
| 90%+ of those don't have cables attached.
|
| - home chargers are also usually Type 2 and you either have
| cable attached permanently or use the same that is in the
| car.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Ya, me neither. Public L2 chargers are either CCS or Tesla
| destination chargers.
| rsynnott wrote:
| This is a pretty common type of streetside charger in
| Ireland: https://cloudfront-eu-
| central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/iri...
|
| The ports on the side are for people to plug their charging
| cable into; charging cables aren't supplied.
|
| Here's one in use; note the non-matching cables:
| https://www.theaa.ie/wp-
| content/uploads/2022/11/iStock-14421...
| toast0 wrote:
| OTOH, there are lots of outdoor 110 vac outlets in the US
| if you look. Level 1 charging is terrible, but it's not
| nothing. Mostly tongue in cheek, I've never charged with a
| random outlet, but I've seen a lot.
| crote wrote:
| In Europe all EV drivers bring their own cable for low- to
| medium-power chargers. Only the high-power superchargers
| have permanently attached cables.
| giuliomagnifico wrote:
| Yes but it's not a big issue, EV owners should already carry a
| charging cable inside the car for safety.
| jupp0r wrote:
| How is safety increased by carrying a cable?
| rkagerer wrote:
| Is this basically for cosmetic purposes?
| wmf wrote:
| Existing pedestal chargers are large enough that they'd block
| the sidewalk.
| politician wrote:
| Does it rain there?
| Robotbeat wrote:
| I wonder if outdoor outlets exist in places where there is
| rain?
| wmf wrote:
| Generally not facing upwards.
| yayo88 wrote:
| My biggest problem with all these public ev chargers is that
| there may be a chance they are no longer fit for purpose in a few
| years. All the installations for this "green" tech will need to
| be replaced.
| unglaublich wrote:
| Why? The most significant part of the investment is to make
| some kW or MW or power available at many locations. The
| chargers themselves are replaceable, that's fine.
| wmf wrote:
| This isn't wrong (Electrify America is replacing thousands of
| chargers) but it's also a generic contrarian dismissal that
| could apply to any new tech.
| bberenberg wrote:
| Interesting idea. Likely complex to solve for the various
| accessibility issues introduced from floor placement.
| rektide wrote:
| Chargers that pop out of the curb. Yes please.
|
| Here in DC we have a lot of food trucks, and their fumes and
| noise is a sad mark upon the area. I dream of a law where these
| things could be connected to the grid instead. Right now that's
| just a fantasy as there's not a real way to accomplish that
| objective, but tech like this is exactly what it would take! And
| more inverters setup to be powered off EV voltage levels.
| crote wrote:
| Aren't food trucks licensed? _Surely_ the municipality could
| 've placed a power connection point when they gave out the
| license for a food truck location?
| rektide wrote:
| I think in DC the food truck locations are first come first
| serve, they're just using street parking to do their thing.
|
| There's other practical challenges of deploying high power
| charging here. The power connection is only part of the
| system. How we do metering, how we get get power to the area,
| how we convert it are all complicated challenges. Doing it at
| scale would be non trivial.
| ianai wrote:
| Are we really thinking food trucks need more than the
| 3.3-6.6kw that a typical outlet can deliver? Just make them
| EV chargers as those companies already exist and have the
| stuff figured out. No reason to run an ICE.
| c22 wrote:
| It's probably different from place to place, but in my city
| mobile food trucks can operate on any non-residential private
| property with no additional permitting requirements and can
| operate on public streets with a permit for up to two weeks.
| Presumably private property can figure out their own power
| infrastructure and the 2-week limit on public streets would
| seem too short of a time for installing power to make sense.
| dabluecaboose wrote:
| Most food trucks in DC are illegally parked. For example, the
| perennial "food court" on 7th street crossing the National
| Mall
|
| I don't think the DC municipality is very interested in
| enforcement of arbitrary HOA-style laws.
| izacus wrote:
| Since US failed to standardize chargers, Tesla will decide
| whether anyone is allowed to build such infrastructure. Will
| they allow it?
| rsynnott wrote:
| Eh? Pretty much all US electric cars these days have CCS
| charger ports, don't they?
| Robotbeat wrote:
| No, most US electric cars are Teslas and they use the
| better NACS port. Which is an open standard now. Ford will
| use it in the future.
| wmf wrote:
| Not any more. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36079236
| recursive wrote:
| I assumed these fords would have both. But I guess I
| haven't seen anything concrete about it.
| rsynnott wrote:
| Looks like their current electric vehicles use CCS; I'd
| imagine the future ones would probably have _both_, or
| some sort of adaptor.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| That's correct, there will be an adapter & there already
| is
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| All non-Tesla cars except for Nissan use CCS.
| izacus wrote:
| Most US working charging infrastructure is Tesla plugs.
| Tesla also started pushing companies like Ford to adopt
| their proprietary charger.
| [deleted]
| chroma wrote:
| It's no longer proprietary. As of last year the standard
| is open and anyone can adopt it without paying Tesla a
| dime.[1] Of course car manufacturers will have to
| negotiate access to Tesla's charging network, but that's
| also true of Electrify America. Considering the
| advantages of Tesla's connector (much more compact, much
| more popular than CCS in the US), I hope it wins. Now
| that Ford[2] and Aptera[3] are adopting it, I think it
| will.
|
| 1. https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-
| charging-s...
|
| 2. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/new
| s/2023...
|
| 3. https://aptera.us/tesla-charging/
| m4rtink wrote:
| Likey really ? They just have an engine running, not even an
| external generator ?
|
| Around here in the Czech Republic they hook up to the grid
| (they often have regular spots they visit, so often arrange a
| connection to be available) or cook on gas from gas bombs
| anyway, so don't really need electricity when cooking.
| balderdash wrote:
| What are the core "limitations" of a charging pole? Is it
| aesthetics? Being able to drive over it? These look neat, but I'm
| a little vague as to the problem that is being solved?
| hgomersall wrote:
| Having the pavement obstructed by charging infrastructure. It's
| already hard enough in many places to navigate on foot (and
| even more so with a wheelchair or pushchair) without having
| additional obstacles to contend with.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| I actually think that could be a good thing. EV chargers as
| bollards to protect pedestrian pathways.
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