[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Is Rust worth investing in as a reliable C-a...
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       Ask HN: Is Rust worth investing in as a reliable C-alt given its
       recent saga?
        
       I've been programming in high-level languages for a while and
       recently I was thinking about learning something more bare metal.
       Rust stood out as one of the popular C/C++ alternatives. But for
       me, the investment in a language is driven by not just the beauty
       of the language itself, but the community around it.  As an
       outsider who's keeping an eye on Rust, am I better off sticking to
       vanilla C/C++?
        
       Author : behnamoh
       Score  : 9 points
       Date   : 2023-05-28 20:23 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
       | bjourne wrote:
       | Community drama is a terrible way to evaluate a language.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | A decent metric for community maturity though. That absolutely
         | should be a factor in deciding on a language.
         | 
         | I'm having a real hard time seeing this unfold among the
         | greybeards that call the shots in Java or C++.
        
         | Gibbon1 wrote:
         | Software already has a big problem with toxic childish
         | behaviors.
         | 
         | I asked my mom who used to audit businesses what was important
         | about founders and CEO's and she said they more than anyone
         | else set the companies culture. I feels to me like that seems
         | to be true of the culture surrounding various programming
         | langs.
        
       | cookieperson wrote:
       | Yes absolutely. The politics is stupid crap. If everyone in the
       | rust org quit the community would continue onwards just fine.
       | 
       | Rust is a great language with a lot of advantages and is
       | absolutely worth considering for your next project.
        
       | Georgelemental wrote:
       | Rust is technically excellent, and has significant buy-in from
       | major corporations, who won't allowwz their investments to go to
       | waste. I wouldn't worry about the drama.
        
       | paddw wrote:
       | If you have no experience with low level programming I think it
       | is better to learn c first anyway. It will help you understand
       | some of the problems that Rust's design solves.
        
       | Georgelemental wrote:
       | Technically, the language is excellent. Organizationally, major
       | corporations have invested a lot of resources into it, they won't
       | allow it to fail. Community-wise, there are lots of friendly and
       | supportive people in the quieter corners (this is true most
       | everywhere, I think).
       | 
       | That being said, my recommendation for learning systems
       | programming would be to consider trying plain old C first. Rust's
       | safety features are a godsend, but IMO easier to understand once
       | you have experienced working without them. (Similarly, I like to
       | recommend leaning a dynamically typed language first, and
       | introducing static typing later.)
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | I agree with what other posters say here regarding building,
       | specifically, C knowledge first.
       | 
       | Further, I've noticed a trend highlighted by people such as
       | Jonathan Blow that there are users of Rust who don't fully
       | understand object lifetimes in particular systems and are hacking
       | around warnings in Rust creating unsafe memory scenarios while
       | being told otherwise because all of their compiler messages have
       | disappeared.
       | 
       | Some things in software engineering are hard, but you can't
       | escape them. It seems like you can only defer the problem until
       | you actually need to understand what's going on, and by the time
       | you realize that, you'll be deep in experience with "weird holes"
       | in your knowledge (as I fondly remember a (pre-?)algebra teacher
       | telling me when I was discussing quaternions in middle school.)
        
       | Lariscus wrote:
       | Every community has its fair share of drama. I wouldn't worry too
       | much about such things.
        
         | FranksTV wrote:
         | This kind of thing has happened forever, it's just thst before
         | social media it was confined to obscure listservs and usenet
         | channels and most of the people using the language would never
         | see it.
        
       | daviddever23box wrote:
       | IMHO, one should make one's language choices based on utility and
       | NOT solely on metacharacteristics such as quality of governance,
       | DEI efforts, or nation of origin. None of these things matter
       | when the program is run, if the process and end result do not
       | solve the problem(s) at hand.
       | 
       | Thorough feature discussion, appropriate licensing, and
       | accessibility of source code for risk evaluation are
       | metacharacteristics that are relevant.
       | 
       | And-lest anyone think that, as a white cisgender male born in
       | America, I have no skin in the game, it is my belief that any
       | interactions with others ought to be principled on transparent
       | rigor and mutual respect, from which all other things should
       | flow.
        
         | version_five wrote:
         | _solely_
         | 
         | I agree with that, but that stuff you mention is still a
         | factor. Politics is creeping into everything, and there are
         | lots of reasons why choosing a relatively politically stable
         | language is important, though obviously not the only factor. I
         | think the best one could hope for is a lot of diverse groups
         | with different political views and motivations being invested
         | in the future of a language, so that despite any culture war
         | stuff, there's likely to be a useful version that survives.
        
           | daviddever23box wrote:
           | Microsoft and Alphabet have plenty of motivation to keep
           | things on track, as does the Linux Foundation and others. I
           | suspect that, if things get completely out of hand, that
           | corporate sponsors might impress their will upon the Rust
           | Foundation to address any issues around governance.
           | 
           | Politics will creep into anything, if one allows that to
           | happen.
        
         | jareds wrote:
         | I was not aware that there are any recent issues with the Rust
         | community since I don't use Rust. while technical
         | characteristics of a language are important the ability of a
         | community to continue supporting the language for the long term
         | is also important. Go has Google backing it, Java has Oracle
         | backing it, etc. Is there enough corporate use of Rust that if
         | the current Rust community falls apart someone will create a
         | stable version of the language and toolchain that will be
         | maintained and updated?
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | I found programming in Rust is fun. The std library provides
       | efficient implementation for your need, which made your time
       | spent worth it.
       | 
       | Whatever your goal is, it's worth your time as i see it.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-28 23:02 UTC)