[HN Gopher] Europe data salary benchmark 2023
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Europe data salary benchmark 2023
Author : acossta
Score : 70 points
Date : 2023-05-27 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
| thomasingalls wrote:
| Why isn't France ever in these datasets?
| negamax wrote:
| European salary data without taxation and benefits is useless.
| mahmoudhossam wrote:
| Taxation is highly dependent on location and personal factors
| (single income vs double income household) and other factors
| that are irrelevant in this context.
|
| Also "benefits" in the American sense aren't really a thing in
| the EU.
| carom wrote:
| Pretty sure a month or two of vacation is common in the EU.
| mahmoudhossam wrote:
| Only those aren't benefits, they're basic rights protected
| by law.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Taxation is kinda relevant because there can be huge
| differences between countries which translate to what you
| take home.
|
| For example 80k might sounds good in one country but after
| tax you might take home less than if you made just 60k in
| another country.
| mahmoudhossam wrote:
| True, but I'm not sure how you'd reflect something like
| that here tbh.
| Yujf wrote:
| I don't know "the american sense", but benfits are definetely
| a thing in Belgium. I think like 60+% of engineers get
| company cars.
| akavi wrote:
| I assume that cars are not seen as a taxable benefit in
| Belgium?
| dukeyukey wrote:
| Private health insurance is taxable in the UK but every
| non-intern tech job I've had has had it as a benefit.
| akavi wrote:
| Interesting. Curious if that's cultural influence from
| the US (where it isn't taxable)
| jonasdegendt wrote:
| It is but at a hilariously cheap rate. It's pennies on
| the dollar (or euro, in this case) compared to owning a
| car outright.
|
| It's a fringe benefit that was invented in order to
| enable employers to sweeten the pay package without
| having to straight up pay more, and respectively pay a
| lot more taxes.
|
| We've a large bunch of these tax efficient fringe
| benefits in Belgium but the company car is by far the one
| that provides the most value.
| Hamuko wrote:
| https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-company-car-
| conundru...
|
| > _Of the 6 million cars on Belgian roads, about 10
| percent are company cars._
|
| > _Even a first job often comes with a car, and most
| employees also get unlimited fuel cards._
|
| That sounds fucking crazy.
| photonbeam wrote:
| My dad had an unlimited fuel card for a company car,
| everyone used that car frivolously
| mahmoudhossam wrote:
| I was referring to healthcare which constitutes the bulk of
| benefits in the US.
|
| Also PTO is more regulated in the EU than it is in the US.
| cscurmudgeon wrote:
| > constitutes the bulk of benefits in the US.
|
| What? What do you mean by bulk?
| mahmoudhossam wrote:
| As in healthcare is very expensive over there and that
| most of it is tied to the employer.
|
| I'm not sure what you're asking here.
| nerbert wrote:
| Doesn't 60% of Belgium get company cars? Not something
| related to engineering, it's one of the basic perks a lot
| of people get.
| jonasdegendt wrote:
| No, it's definitely still a mostly white collar type job
| benefit, and about 14% of working people get a company
| car.
|
| This translates to about half a million company cars.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I've never heard of an engineer getting a company car in
| Finland. People mostly just get a phone plan and some
| sports and culture vouchers.
| mahmoudhossam wrote:
| That is also my experience in Germany, minus the phone
| plan.
| itcrowd wrote:
| There's a huge difference in CoL between the mentioned metro
| areas. Pretty useless comparison in that regard.
| rocketbop wrote:
| Cost of living seems to vary as much if not more than by if and
| when you bought your house than where you live in Western
| Europe at the moment.
| hereonout2 wrote:
| Absolutely in the UK and especially London, I could have a
| much more comfortable life on a much reduced salary had I
| brought a house 10 years ago.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Pretty much yeah. The price for groceries or bills don't
| differ too much between EU countries at this point, but the
| price of real estate and having your own place either paid
| off or secured at a good price and a good rate makes the
| biggest difference.
|
| Earning 50% more before tax somewhere else is not a good deal
| if there's 200 people fighting for every moldy 20sqm
| apartment that hasn't seen a renovation in 50 years, and you
| also no real chance of affording to buy something decent in
| that area.
|
| Real estate is messed up in EU at the moment. Far too
| expensive considering the wages and rates.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> There's a huge difference in CoL between the mentioned metro
| areas._
|
| Then good thing the title is honest and explicitly says "salary
| benchmarks" and not CoL benchmarks. CoL varies from person and
| lifestyle.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| cost of living is highly relevant when you compare salary
| data because it's one of the primary factors that determines
| the cost of labor.
|
| If you pay a Berlin salary in SF nobody's gonna show up
| because that doesn't cover your apartment rent. It tells you
| little about how much you effectively pocket. If you want to
| get some use out of this data you need to adjust it for
| purchasing power.
| koliber wrote:
| You're right. Which is why it's great that this link was
| posted. You can now take this available data and combine it
| with you understanding of the CoL on the various locations.
| Otherwise you'd only have a feel for the CoL.
| usgroup wrote:
| This looks false to me for the UK. See for comparison:
|
| https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/
| hondadriver wrote:
| That seems way more realistic. The salaries in the original
| article are not common at all for software development
| positions in Europe as far as I know ...
| emptysongglass wrote:
| We are getting absolutely fleeced by our American counterparts
| and paying higher taxes on top. Yet we're every bit as good
| developers, DevOps Engineers, SREs, you name it in tech. And cost
| of living in US metro areas vs Europe does not even begin to
| explain why. I wish we'd collectively take a harder stance on the
| bargaining line because it is insane to me we be paid half, a
| third less and then shell out very high taxes on top (OK Bulgaria
| you get a pass).
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| In the states, we'd be getting paid less if the companies
| should get away with it.
|
| And in the states, we definitely don't collectively bargain.
|
| So something else is the issue.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Yes, there are hardly any European companies with FAANG level
| profitability. Thats it.
| [deleted]
| woobar wrote:
| You can't have your cake and eat it too. You like your social
| safety net? You like stronger worker protection? Long
| vacations? Someone has to pay for all of it. Either through
| higher taxes or lower wages.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| I have to take out salary insurance because welfare benefits
| wouldn't even begin to cover living expenses. You have such a
| thing in the US too. In Denmark, it's easy to fire and easy
| to hire (let at hyre og fyre [1]) so what am I liking here?
| At US Google I understand it's 30 days paid time off a
| calendar year: that's the same standard as Europe.
|
| Yet Google will happily pay the same role less than half when
| hired here.
|
| I've done my research: this is cultural inertia, as another
| commenter alluded to. "We pay this much because that's what
| the market rate is for [country in Europe]".
|
| [1] https://www.detdanskearbejdsmarked.dk/den-danske-
| model/portr...
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(page generated 2023-05-27 23:01 UTC)