[HN Gopher] Times New Bastard
___________________________________________________________________
Times New Bastard
Author : orhmeh09
Score : 488 points
Date : 2023-05-26 19:53 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| m463 wrote:
| This seems to be a font where every character has a serif, but G
| and T do not.
| Pxtl wrote:
| Reminds me of how Twitter uses an odd font for @usernames where
| the I and 1 and l have serifs so you can tell them apart, but is
| otherwise sans serif. Every time I see a username with an I in it
| it looks weird.
| Ruq wrote:
| MY EYES
| shreyshnaccount wrote:
| my father was a centurian, you see. his name was naughtius
| maximus...
| ineedasername wrote:
| my eyes kept telling me the e was a theta th symbol.
|
| Visual context really matters and seemingly small or subtle
| things are, well, jarring or uncomfortable. Sort of the font
| equivalent of the "uncanny valley"
| ForOldHack wrote:
| Give me a font name that will offend more than 97% of the
| population, like !@^$-!@$!@$-!&%^!@-(*&!-BOLD.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > !@^$-!@$!@$-!&%^!@-(*&!-BOLD.
|
| Shit, I need to change my password.
| chavesn wrote:
| Those sans-serif spaces tho...
| richardanaya wrote:
| Nihilism in typography
| smitty1e wrote:
| I had remained staunchly skeptical about the domestic terrorism
| talk. Until now.
| contrarian1234 wrote:
| The developer has a great personal webpage:
|
| https://weiweihuanghuang.github.io/
|
| great trollin' :))
| nunez wrote:
| By god, what have you done.
| z3t4 wrote:
| It's surprisingly legible.
| [deleted]
| anonu wrote:
| its a trojan horse - dont use it. AGPL license means that if you
| use this anywhere in your code you will need to make that code
| open source.
| neverrroot wrote:
| Reminds me of a time long gone, when I had too much free time...
| cool project
| DubiousPusher wrote:
| I've never built a font. I had no idea you could do something
| procedural with them like this. I always assumed they were just a
| bunch of glyphs in a file.
| graypegg wrote:
| How does this work? I thought ligatures were just different
| glyphs stored in the font that would replace some number of other
| individual characters. Does that mean there's a ligature glyph
| for every combination of 7 characters?!
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| There's a whole, let's say, scripting engine that lets the font
| decide which glyph is going to be used that goes way further
| than just simple ligature substitution. People have even
| implemented "games" as fonts this way:
| https://www.coderelay.io/fontemon.html
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Well, that's surprisingly addictive.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Have there been any high profile exploits of these font
| scripting engines?
|
| I guess that must be where stuff like
|
| https://arstechnica.com/information-
| technology/2015/05/bewar...
|
| comes from.
|
| It seems quite risky, I'm used to not downloading and
| executing shady programs, but downloading and executing...
| characters... is hard to avoid.
| josefx wrote:
| Windows had some security issues in the past. It has a font
| rendering engine in the kernel.
| ghub-mmulet wrote:
| If anyone is interested I wrote a blog post about how I made
| fontemon and which type features I used:
| https://github.com/mmulet/code-
| relay/blob/main/markdown/HowI...
| avgcorrection wrote:
| > Implementation for a seemingly simple logic is surprisingly
| powerful
|
| hmm.
| skeaker wrote:
| Great link, I'm impressed by the sort of animations that they
| were able to fit into a font.
| epilys wrote:
| OpenType is basically turing-complete via glyph shaping.
| There's an explanation here:
| https://litherum.blogspot.com/2019/03/addition-font.html
| cyanydeez wrote:
| A virus whose only payload is to replace times new Roman with
| this
| m463 wrote:
| that would never Work.
| Tao3300 wrote:
| This font looks like it wants to sell me some organic Cialis.
| globalise83 wrote:
| Now everyone knows which font to use to write passive-aggressive
| notices for the unknown flatmate who keeps leaving mouldy food in
| the fridge.
| bezier-curve wrote:
| We need a font for passive aggressive HN submissions as well.
| fghorow wrote:
| Nope. Use it for grant proposals...
| fsckboy wrote:
| I'm not sure if the serif-icity is the jarring part, I think it's
| the different point size (or whatever that word is for the
| horizontal height lines that fonts live within).
|
| I'm curious why type/font technology hasn't developed for
| variation in letters, where a handwriting or printing typeface
| (or "Ransom" :) could vary the letter "a" so all the "a"'s don't
| look alike, the same as happens irl.
| huhtenberg wrote:
| It would've been a neater prank if they'd actually chopped off
| serifs from the original letters and used those for the sans
| glyphes.
| ryanjshaw wrote:
| It gives me flashbacks of bad OCR jobs and trying to copy
| sensible text out of the resultant messy PDF.
| frostburg wrote:
| Many of the more complete font families feature stylistic
| alternatives for certain letters. Usually typesetting software
| has you manually pick them or select sets, but it could be done
| as you say.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| > I'm curious why type/font technology hasn't developed for
| variation in letters
|
| Not sure what you're talking about; it did and there are many
| fonts that use it.
| [deleted]
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > I'm curious why type/font technology hasn't developed for
| variation in letters, where a handwriting or printing typeface
| (or "Ransom" :) could vary the letter "a" so all the "a"'s
| don't look alike, the same as happens irl.
|
| Why would you want that? It seems like it would be harder to
| read for no benefit.
| true_religion wrote:
| Why would you want it? For the same reason as a font like
| Times New Bastard. For fun. For creative depression. For no
| good reason at all.
| wishfish wrote:
| For a handwriting font, it would be fun to have small
| variations on letters. Just to make it look like something
| actually handwritten.
| esquivalience wrote:
| I believe it exists and here is a list of reasons for it: htt
| ps://fonts.google.com/knowledge/introducing_type/introduc...
| acqq wrote:
| Cool:
|
| https://www.fontshop.com/content/enable-contextual-
| alternate...
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _Why would you want that?_
|
| call me OCD but when I look at stuff written in script my
| eyes check to see if all the a's are the same, all the b's
| are the same, all the... and then what I see is manufactured
| uniformity, a communique from The Machine.
|
| it wouldn't take much variation (say, three different a's) to
| make me feel a sense of relief that it's warmer and cuddlier
| elevation wrote:
| You might want it for emulating handwriting by choosing
| glyphs from a series of fonts so that tokens like "IEEE" or
| "error" aren't uncanny giveaways of the computer-rendering.
| Blahah wrote:
| > I think it's the different point size (or whatever that word
| is for the horizontal height lines that fonts live within).
|
| Agreed! The x-height [0] (among other things) differs jarringly
| between the serif and sans fonts used.
|
| 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-height#:~:text=In%20typogr
| ....
| augustk wrote:
| I wish you could specify the x-height of a font in CSS. If
| you mix serif and sans serif you want them to look like they
| have the same size. It would have been nice if the default
| browser fonts were selected to have the same x-height.
| JusticeJuice wrote:
| There's a lot of variable typefaces that let you set the
| x-height, which can be controlled via CSS.
| glasshug wrote:
| Soon! https://github.com/w3c/csswg-
| drafts/commit/1fae25fa283c708f7...
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| Yeah, if they were the same size I'm not sure I would even
| notice.
| gwern wrote:
| You'd notice in the original screenshot/example linked: https
| ://bouquetoftwelve.tumblr.com/post/186272155342/ommanyt...
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| That screenshot has the exact same problem.
| gwern wrote:
| No, it doesn't. Compare the heights of the 'ri' pairs,
| for example. In the Github repo, the difference is
| ginormous, the top of the 'r' is almost past the dot. In
| the original Tumblr mockup, the top doesn't even reach
| the same height as the dot. It's still too big to be
| subtle, but it's better.
| mywittyname wrote:
| People really seem to hate "handwritten" fonts. Comic Sans is
| the mainstream example, but there are a lot of other ones.
|
| As others said, stylistic alternatives definitely exist in most
| font packages, especially commercial ones used with Adobe
| products. So the fact that they are not widely used outside of
| graphic design probably goes back to people generally hate
| fonts that look handwritten for anything besides wedding
| invitations.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| I see a lot of the "why do people hate Comic Sans" articles
| on the web think it's just because it's a handwritten, casual
| font used in inappropriate situations, but this seems like
| post-hoc rationalization. It's the Comic Sans look
| specifically that people intensely dislike, not "handwritten"
| fonts in general.
|
| The original and better case against Comic Sans was that
| there were much better handwritten, comic-text-style fonts
| and that Comic Sans was a particularly bad instance of one.
|
| Just ask Dave Gibbons:
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/aug/12/dave-
| gibb...
|
| >"It's just a shame they couldn't have used just the original
| font, because it's a real mess. I think it's a particularly
| ugly letter form," he says. "The other thing that really bugs
| me that they've used an upper case I with bars on it: it
| looks completely wrong to the comic eye. And when you see
| store fronts done in it, it's horrible."
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > it's just because it's a handwritten, casual font used in
| inappropriate situations
|
| It's a handwritten, casual font used in inappropriate
| situations /and the only available for anything 'fancy' on
| the Average Computer used by Average Joe/.
| fsckboy wrote:
| stylistically, my personal taste is that Comic Sans is
| _exactly the right font to use_ for serious warning signs
| like in a kitchen, such as "DON'T TOUCH, handle gets HOT"
| or something. Anything official looking I have a tendency
| to ignore as boilerplate, but comic sans seems like a
| personal friendly message directed at me
|
| if any of the objection is to the precise letter drawings,
| ok fine, give me a different one, but the overall concept,
| I'm Comic Sans all the way.
| derefr wrote:
| If you want _jarring_ so that you don't ignore it, use
| Impact or Copperplate.
| fsckboy wrote:
| I completely disagree, though, you're not getting my
| point. There is a type of "standard" warning that I
| routinely ignore, the "don't cut yourself with the
| tablesaw" warnings. Or "knife is sharp". Like, yeah,
| that's why I'm using the knife.
|
| A warning I won't ignore is one written by a friend about
| something unusual or unexpected. "The supposedly
| insulated handle on this pot will melt your fingers off"
|
| I just think that comic sans draws my eye in, in a way
| that Copperplate instructions from HR do not. Don't tell
| HR, or they'll start using Comic Sans.
| derefr wrote:
| Apologies, I mixed up the font I had meant. I meant to
| refer to things like https://www.fontspace.com/hardsign-
| font-f46378, or https://www.fontspace.com/the-ranch-
| font-f88750, or the various Fraktur fonts that you mostly
| see in tattoo-art these days. These fonts are _not_
| normally used on warning signs. Unless you consider old-
| west "WANTED" posters to be warning signs.
|
| These are fonts that are not just eye-catching, but
| actively painful to look at for how striking they are, to
| the point that they're even maybe a bit hard to read (but
| you still end up reading them, because it's hard to look
| away.) These are fonts that _scream_ at you -- fonts HR
| would never dare to use, even knowing they "work",
| because it'd be unprofessional to be _that_ attention-
| grabbing. It 'd be the typographic equivalent of blowing
| an airhorn in a small room in order to interrupt someone.
|
| Or you can go the other way, and just put an actual
| picture of the grim reaper on your sign: https://www.redd
| it.com/r/pics/comments/58b3vj/stop_prevent_y... .
|
| (Though actually, oddly enough, something about that
| typography makes me feel threatened even _without_ the
| image. I think that particular tight leading with all-
| caps lettering using a high-weight sans-serif font, puts
| me in mind of specific public civic-engineering uses of
| typography to warn people away from high-voltage power
| substations, large AM radio transmitters, hydro-dam
| spillways, etc. It 's a subtle thing, but it's enough to
| make it really not look like your standard HR print-out.
| See also: the old shield of the US Department of Civil
| Defense -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_defense_in
| _the_United_St.... Seeing that on something is just
| _unsettling_ -- for purely typographic reasons!)
| boredhedgehog wrote:
| > like a personal friendly message directed at me
|
| Yes, like a clown talking to you while honking his nose.
| Amusing and ignorable.
| kyle-rb wrote:
| I'm imagining huge Comic Sans lettering: "This place is
| not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is
| commemorated here... nothing valued is here."
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| 100%. A cartoon with the warning helps too.
| brazzledazzle wrote:
| My favorite comic sans note taped to an office fridge
| ended with "sorry for the incontinence" and once I had a
| good chuckle I read the part above it that I had
| previously ignored.
| User23 wrote:
| Brush Script[1] is the ur-classic. Adobe used to give it away
| so it showed up literally everywhere when desktop publishing
| was first taking off.
|
| [1] https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/brush-script
| [deleted]
| RobotToaster wrote:
| There's nothing wrong with comic sans, if you're making a
| comic
|
| You don't use it for a business letter for the same reason
| you don't use Times New Roman, Garamond, Baskerville, &c, for
| a comic.
| anonymouskimmer wrote:
| As GP indicated, the important thing is that Comic Sans
| doesn't appear handwritten because it lacks variation. Just
| like good Calligraphy doesn't appear handwritten. In genuine
| (non-Calligraphic) handwriting there will be minor variations
| in each letter (say, the letter "s"), even though in general
| all instances of the letter will be more similar to each
| other than the same letter in someone else's handwriting.
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| I didn't know fonts would be capable of figuring out how many had
| been typed in order to swap the 7th regardless of which character
| it was, even with ligatures. That's kind of crazy.
| yarg wrote:
| The biggest problem with this is that it's too obvious, if you
| really want to fuck with people it should require more effort for
| them to tell what's wrong.
|
| An insidious little niggle that grates upon the mind.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Maybe instead it just ligatures in common typos even though you
| spell the word correctly:
|
| handle becomes handel
|
| Or strip out past tense:
|
| fined becomes fine
|
| Also: You're always spelled as your; Oxford commas never; Two
| becomes too Public becomes pubic
| mc32 wrote:
| So something like Helvetica but every so often you sneak in
| Arial?
| pessimizer wrote:
| Isn't that just Arial?
| yarg wrote:
| That wouldn't be bad, but I think you could do something more
| off-putting with something like deliberately slightly bad
| kerning.
|
| I'm not sure of the extent to which you could use ligatures
| to tweak the serifs, rather than remove them completely (if
| possible - frustration will be maximised if the reader is
| unable to tell what's wrong, even after they come to believe
| that something is wrong).
| mattkevan wrote:
| Had the idea a while back to make posters and t-shirts with
| 'I [heart] Helvetica' on them, but set in Arial to wind up
| design nerds. But realised that 99.999% of anyone except
| possibly myself wouldn't notice of care.
| yarg wrote:
| But it would ruin the day of anyone who did.
| omoikane wrote:
| Maybe Times New Roman, but every seventh letter is Papyrus.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhlJNJopOQ
| SeenNotHeard wrote:
| Related: "Papyrus: The World's 2nd Most Hated Font"
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t1D3ebc6h0
| computerdork wrote:
| saw this on SNL when it originally aired, _hilarious!_
| tariqrauf wrote:
| | Using it on the Web:
|
| | text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;
|
| ---
|
| this is poetic, event potentially art
| birb07 wrote:
| See https://github.com/Born2Root/Fast-Font for a bionic font
| using font features as well
| naikrovek wrote:
| times new bararian
| khazhoux wrote:
| [flagged]
| prashp wrote:
| Wtf
| motohagiography wrote:
| It reminds me of lawyergrams, where the language is constructed
| to antagonize and threaten while still being logically and
| legally specific and correct - a kind of ransom note with airs.
| I'd wonder if some white shoe firm has gone to the trouble of
| commissioning an in-house font based on similar design principles
| to this Times New Bastard, just for that purpose.
| Aerbil313 wrote:
| The word you used, "lawyergrams" is so niche that it shows up
| only in a couple places on internet and no one knows what it
| means, including dictionaries and ChatGPT.
| motohagiography wrote:
| I have read a great deal of fiction and I write a lot, so
| sometimes that means having to just make the perfect word.
| awinter-py wrote:
| have yet to open a postscript file without it looking like this
| qwezxcrty wrote:
| One can get a similar, extremely ugly effect if one is reading
| Japanese text rendered on a Chinese language system.
|
| Many kanjis in the Japanese text will default to the glyphs in
| the system Chinese font. However, the kanas as well as some
| kanjis are not included in the Chinese font will be rendered with
| a failback font, frequently in a very different style.
| 1una wrote:
| > Many kanjis in the Japanese text will default to the glyphs
| in the system Chinese font.
|
| There is a solution if you're using Linux:
| https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Font_configuration/Examples...
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Han unification was such a silly mistake
| qwezxcrty wrote:
| The ideal situation is there is a unified CJ(K) font that
| covers all the glyphs.
| eNV25 wrote:
| NotoCJK
| Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
| There needs to be Latin unification too. How many times is
| 'a' in unicode?
| elboru wrote:
| Something similar happens when you use Spanish accent letters
| (a, e, i, o, u, n) with fonts that don't include them.
|
| It's amazing to me that many people seem to not notice or care
| that random letters don't match the font style and they keep
| using those fonts for Spanish.
| bonyt wrote:
| Neat. By a strange coincidence, I made something similar
| yesterday in a script to make each letter in HTML into a
| different font. I wanted to see if it would end up as an OCR-
| proof font:
|
| https://gist.github.com/tonyb486/0e3efc9240953c86a50a019b56c...
|
| An example: https://tmp.tonybox.net/chbgr.htm
|
| Rasterized and OCR'd: https://tmp.tonybox.net/ocr.pdf
| einpoklum wrote:
| It would be nice if you could make the effective character
| sizes more uniform.
| yscodes wrote:
| Sounds interesting. Mind sharing the _gist_ (hehe) of your
| results?
|
| Big fan of on-a-whim-experiments.
| jredwards wrote:
| Seems you were at least partially successful
| toxik wrote:
| Man that Fontemon got my phone steaming hot
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| Very cool concept
| 91Jacob wrote:
| Guys don't worry just set every seventh letter to Times New
| Roman!
| Aeolun wrote:
| This is some massive abuse of ligatures. Did they just cover
| every 6 letter combination? Or do ligatures somehow get to count
| characters.
| anonzzzies wrote:
| I don't know if it's a thing, but I often say I have font
| blindness; I don't see the difference in fonts. If I can read it,
| it is text and I have to really stare for ages to see what's
| wrong in this case. I would happily read a book with this font
| and not notice anything wrong, let alone it being jarring.
|
| Edit; same with the hellvetica example; I have to consciously
| stare and think to see it's not normal; I can read it, so my
| brain doesn't give two shites about the font, spacing etc.
| arrakeen wrote:
| who needs a font when fontconfig will gladly do this for you by
| default
| bdg wrote:
| Looks like a ransom note.
| mfsch wrote:
| Since this font is published under AGPL - is Times New Roman
| available under an open license? Or is this based on an open
| alternative?
| xoxxala wrote:
| Different font than TNR.
|
| > Times New Bastard is a modified version of Nimbus Roman No. 9
| L and Nimbus Sans
| ybc37 wrote:
| Reminds me of Hellvetica. Unfortunately, the website is gone, but
| the Internet Archive has saved us this gem:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20201229053709/https://hellvetic...
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| Wow... this is actually impressive. It takes work to make
| something that's tastefully jarring and awful.
| yafbum wrote:
| Keming matters!
| taneq wrote:
| There was a path of Exile patch note that said "fixed
| keming". :)
| wtf_is_up wrote:
| Speaking of PoE font bugs, here's an amusing tale of how a
| GGG dev finally fixed a 6 years old font rendering bug:
|
| https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3277814
| Hamuko wrote:
| Keming is not important.
| userbinator wrote:
| I was expecting the opposite, mostly sans-serif with the
| occasional serif, but the keming didn't disappoint.
| account-5 wrote:
| Not dissimilar to my dyslexia.
| forgotusername6 wrote:
| If you want to know the science behind this then here is a good
| video describing the process https://youtu.be/-Y-yKmzP-4U
| jkingsman wrote:
| If you're looking for a download link, this appears to be the
| least sketchy: https://img1.allbestfonts.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2019/10/Hel...
| zubairshaik wrote:
| The download link on the Internet Archive seemed to work as
| well
| jredwards wrote:
| This is beautiful for grating discomfort. And for over the top
| insanity, there's always Zec[?]a[?][?]lt[?]gxoeho[?]
| th[?]t[?][?]dredex[?]to[?][?]
| nradov wrote:
| Check out the old tweets from @glitchr_. You can do some wild
| stuff by exploiting Unicode rendering.
|
| https://twitter.com/glitchr_
| maeln wrote:
| I like zalgo. It teach me a lot about Unicode. I love how
| diactric are coded, it is very sane, and easy golfable:
| https://github.com/maeln/zalgo/blob/master/golfed.c
| anthomtb wrote:
| My phone doesn't render that corr...oh
| zimpenfish wrote:
| I've got an Instagram post titled with Zalgo and it is the
| only one that instaload can't backup because of the resultant
| filename. Which amuses me greatly.
| contravariant wrote:
| Hmm, that seems slightly overdone, this just looks like noise
| to me.
|
| Would be much more annoying if every so often a letter was eve
| r so s|ightly wrong.
| lostlogin wrote:
| It looks like a cheesy movie ransom demand letter, with
| letter cut out of pages of magazines.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| (2019)
| orhmeh09 wrote:
| This is true, and I know there is sometimes such a convention.
| However, I can't find it in the guidelines, and I thought it
| better to preserve the original title as best as possible with
| 79 characters before someone ekse truncated the title.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| the unwritten convention is let us know this is not new or an
| update on an old story. It's just a courtesy.
| zerocrates wrote:
| You get this experience the natural way still when fonts don't
| include a character and the specified stack doesn't have a good
| fallback.
|
| I still see it on newspapers' websites when they're using a
| custom font and the headline contains an accented character.
| [deleted]
| orhmeh09 wrote:
| Note that the title of the page is not "Times New Bastard" but
| "weiweihuanghuang/Times-New-Bastard: It's Times New Roman but
| every seventh letter is jarringly sans serif", which I had edited
| down to "Times-New-Bastard: Times New Roman but every 7th letter
| is jarringly sans serif".
| gjvc wrote:
| not very jarring
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(page generated 2023-05-27 23:01 UTC)