[HN Gopher] Podman Desktop 1.0
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Podman Desktop 1.0
Author : m4r71n
Score : 167 points
Date : 2023-05-23 15:59 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (developers.redhat.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (developers.redhat.com)
| sarahdellysse wrote:
| Anyone have any experience running Windows and WSL2 with Podman
| Desktop? I'm running W11, with fedora in WSL2. What I've been
| doing with Docker Desktop is running Docker Desktop on Windows
| startup, and that gives me access to the docker machine in both
| powershell and inside my wsl2 environment (for the latter,
| docker-desktop installs a binary inside fedora-wsl2 at
| `/usr/local/bin/docker` that communicates to the host)
|
| So far, I uninstalled Docker-Desktop and installed Podman-
| Desktop, and now I can run `podman` from powershell but not from
| fedora. I'm about to try `sudo dnf install podman` and hope it
| connects to the podman-machine? I dunno, it's not exactly clear
| pxc wrote:
| * * *
| user3939382 wrote:
| I'm waiting for Podman to hit AWS ECR/ECS. Until then it's just
| an interesting topic.
|
| https://github.com/aws/containers-roadmap/issues/626
| paulddraper wrote:
| That would be simply amazing.
|
| I love Podman but sadly not enough to run my own servers :(
| dmw_ng wrote:
| What value is added by swapping Docker out for an alternative
| on ECS? It's (at least as I understand it) basically an
| implementation detail, and well beneath the "covered by AWS
| support, don't touch" surface
| user3939382 wrote:
| You're right in a way, I really don't care what AWS does
| under the hood. The bigger issue is that I don't want any
| avoidable discrepancies between what I'm testing with on
| local and what I'm deploying. Obviously it's never 1:1
| because my local isn't an AWS cloud infrastructure, but up
| til now the container engine isn't a variable.
| kentrf wrote:
| I've been trying to get podman working with vscode and the docker
| extension for a while now...
|
| Only to find out yesterday I had to downgrade the extension due
| to differences between docker and podman.
| anderspitman wrote:
| Docker Desktop provides some compelling options for lowering the
| barrier of entry for selfhosting. Today you can take a Windows
| laptop and run just about any Linux service, with pretty fast
| networking and host disk access. No CLI experience required. The
| only major missing piece is inbound networking from the internet.
| Tunneling[0] is my preferred solution to that problem. Or if you
| don't want to expose your services to the internet there's
| already a Tailscale extension[1].
|
| It's exciting and important to have an open source alternative in
| this space.
|
| [0]: https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling
|
| [1]: https://tailscale.com/blog/docker/
| pydry wrote:
| I really wish they'd give podman-compose some love.
| yrro wrote:
| These days Podman implements the docker API, so it's easier to
| use docker-compose. I am not sure if there's any compelling
| reason to use podman-compose any more.
| pydry wrote:
| It's kind of a pain to set up a port for docker compose to
| talk to.
|
| podman compose is effectively 90% finished too. It's just
| annoying seeing some roughness around the edges.
|
| I'm not convinced it would be all that hard to make it better
| than docker compose, either.
| [deleted]
| jadbox wrote:
| What's missing? The release of podman desktop says it has
| compatibility with docker compose..
| tjoff wrote:
| Haven't transitioned to podman, yet, so maybe out of place -
| but:
|
| Not sure how that is relevant to podman-compose?
| mati365 wrote:
| love
| ragnese wrote:
| podman-compose was never official, though- was it?
|
| I'm still using it, because the last time I had time to mess
| with it, docker-compose still required a lot of fiddling to
| work with podman. From the other replies to your comment, I
| guess it must have gotten better, so I'll guess I'll try
| docker-compose again soon.
| kuratkull wrote:
| We are a Podman shop. Podman itself works fine, but for Compose
| we kinda have to use docker-compose (and very soon "docker
| compose" due to the former getting deprecated in a week). I
| found several major and minor issues when I fed our Compose
| files to podman compose, I even created a pull request for one
| that was easily fixable with a single line change, but I'm
| weary of using it for production right now. Hoping Podman
| compose gets some love from a big player, b/c it seems RH is
| only focused on Kube.
| freedomben wrote:
| > _Hoping Podman compose gets some love from a big player, b
| /c it seems RH is only focused on Kube._
|
| Can you expand on this a bit? What is an example of something
| you'd like another player to do that RH isn't doing?
| dmarinus wrote:
| you can actually use docker-compose with podman
| intelVISA wrote:
| To quote the great pjmlp: Let me guess, Podman desktop is an
| Electron app.
| paulddraper wrote:
| I know we don't like it, but it is objectively the most cost-
| efficient way to make a cross-platform desktop app.
|
| Nothing else even comes close, unfortunately.
|
| Maybe someday.
| viraptor wrote:
| I'll counter with Avalonia https://avaloniaui.net/
|
| It's likely easier if you assume the same starting skill
| level since dotnet build system is way simpler to deal with.
| mike_hearn wrote:
| Objectively by what measure?
|
| Bear in mind that there are alternatives: JavaFX and Compose
| for Desktop are the ones I know best. They can be used from
| high level and popular languages. JavaFX is particularly good
| for desktop apps and can be compiled down to purely native
| code that starts as fast as an app written in C++ (likewise
| for Compose but the experiments with that are newer).
|
| There are some downsides: fewer people know them than with
| HTML. There are a few tweaks like window styles on macOS it
| could use to be more modern. On the other hand, it's easy to
| learn and you benefit from a proper reactively bindable
| widget library, like table and tree views if you need those.
| For developer tools such widgets can be useful.
|
| There's a modern theme for JavaFX here:
|
| https://github.com/mkpaz/atlantafx
|
| CfD uses Material Design of course, but you can customize it.
|
| Having written desktop apps of varying complexity in all
| these frameworks, I can't say Electron is clearly superior.
| It is in _some_ cases (e.g. if I was wanting to write a video
| conferencing app then it makes sense to re-use Google 's
| investment into Hangouts/Meet for that), but it's also worse
| in some cases. For instance the multi-process model
| constantly gets in the way, but you can't disable it as
| otherwise XSS turns into RCE.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Sure if one only knows Web.
|
| The days of multi-stack-skill devs are gone.
| klabb3 wrote:
| You mean developers who not only know 4-5 different
| language-runtime-GUI stacks well, but also casually
| maintains 4-5 different versions of the same app? I don't
| think they're "gone", I think they spend their time in
| better ways.
| mping wrote:
| To put it in another way, business doesn't care what
| language it is written as long as you ship it fast and it
| passes QA.
|
| Electron gets the job done, and you can tap a huge pool
| of devs.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Thanks for the reference.
|
| "lightweight and efficient" is definitely not what comes to
| mind when talking about Electron.
| leetharris wrote:
| Yes. It is by far the easiest way to make a nice looking cross
| platform app. If you can't handle the extra RAM you are always
| welcome to use the CLI
| stonogo wrote:
| Why does a linux-only tool need a cross-platform app?
| ccmcarey wrote:
| It's not linux only? Podman desktop runs on Windows (I'm
| using it right now) and Mac
| klabb3 wrote:
| Even if it _were_ Linux only, it's not like GUI and
| application bundling is standardized across distros.
| viraptor wrote:
| It effectively is if you're ready to ship your
| dependencies. If you're happy to depend on major versions
| that come with the system, qt isn't bad either.
| robertoandred wrote:
| I wouldn't call Electron apps nice looking. They always stand
| out like a sore thumb, being slow and non-native.
| pjmlp wrote:
| https://www.qt.io/product/ui-design-tools
|
| Depends on how much one actually bothers to look around.
| wiseowise wrote:
| Buying specialized tool, hiring C++ UI devs just to create
| your average HTML page and make a couple of snob tech-bros
| happy, great investment.
| intelVISA wrote:
| Only thing I can't handle is how Red Hat, with its bllions,
| can't afford a few extra dollars for user-respecting, secure
| native GUIs.
| ragnese wrote:
| I hate Electron apps, too, but I've not heard people
| complain about security before. What's the security problem
| with Electron apps?
|
| I understand that you're basically running a Node.js
| instance for each app, but why is that more insecure than
| running, say, a GTK app? Since GTK and Node.js are written
| in C and C++, respectively, my gut instinct would be to
| assume they're equally likely to have security bugs.
| wiseowise wrote:
| Quick search https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-
| list.php?vendor_id=...
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Podman Desktop: Same functionality as Docker Desktop but open
| source_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35296165 - March
| 2023 (36 comments)
|
| _Podman Desktop: A Free OSS Alternative to Docker Desktop_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33536978 - Nov 2022 (191
| comments)
|
| _Podman Desktop Companion GUI - Parity on All Major Operating
| Systems_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31055475 - April
| 2022 (113 comments)
| BIackSwan wrote:
| I tried to use podman for a personal project.
|
| It still has lots of documentation issues/missing. Lots of little
| bugs and very little updates on stability.
|
| Used wsl2 and ubuntu. Eventually gave up because it was just
| leading from one rabbit hole to the next.
|
| Either use venv/vagrant/docker. Or just use native development
| workflow.
|
| Podman is not worth the pain unless its for a mid size business
| or bigger.
| brigadier132 wrote:
| Somewhat unrelated (but maybe it's actually related). I've been
| trying to setup a local development environment for Kubernetes on
| mac. On mac, docker does not allow for connecting directly to the
| pods, you need to either setup a tunnel or service. The problem
| for my use case is that each pod could have a different port and
| local address and a load balancer does not make sense for what
| I'm building which requires connecting directly to a specific
| pod. Does Podman solve this problem? I think the problem is
| dockerd on mac. As of now, I just have a completely separate
| environment in the cloud that I run test on but it's very
| inefficient.
|
| I tried switching to nerdctl and containerd but the problem is
| that I have existing workflows that make use of docker_init files
| and nerdctl breaks those.
| dingledork69 wrote:
| Setting up a Kubernetes service is the way to go, though you
| could also use NodePort on the pods.
| stonemetal12 wrote:
| >docker does not allow for connecting directly to the pods, you
| need to either setup a tunnel or service
|
| That isn't docker, Kubernetes is designed to work that way. To
| be infinitely horizontally scalable, and automatically handle
| pods (and servers) going down, caring about which instance you
| are talking to is generally a bad thing.
| [deleted]
| LightFog wrote:
| I've been using this on Mac for a few months now. It's great to
| have an alternative to Docker desktop although it doesn't feel
| fully there yet, on Mac at least. What is available in the UI is
| slick - but so many features are missing I often just end up back
| in the shell. Am experiencing a lot of strange behaviours in
| terminal sessions via the UI also, particularly hung sessions and
| it being way too easy to accidentally close the session by
| switching Ui tabs.
| teleforce wrote:
| Earlier today I was browsing the Podman desktop website and
| pretty sure it was at 0.15 version, and then telling some people
| after that Podman desktop will probably reach stable sooner
| rather than later. However, does not expect it to be this very
| soon and it's now suddenly stable at version 1.01. Apparently
| container software and ecosystem do move at a blazing speed.
| lostmsu wrote:
| Does it support GPU acceleration? On Windows?
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| Just for fun i thought i'd try to trip this up by hosting my
| podman containers on a remote x64 host: x64$
| podman system service -t 0 & x64$ systemctl enable --now
| --user podman.socket
|
| Then telling podman on my m1 macbook air to use the remote
| machine rather than spinning up a podman machine locally on the
| m1: m1$ podman system connection add fedora
| --identity ~/.ssh/id_rsa --port 22
| ssh://craig@s1.local/run/user/1000/podman/podman.sock m1$
| podman system connection default fedora
|
| but it actually works just fine \o/ either way this is pretty but
| i'll stick to the cli.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| I'm excited to see this finally happen--acknowledgement that
| Docker Desktop has been an essential part of the process of
| onboarding devs (who often use the command line, but sparingly)
| into containerized development with a gentle on-ramp.
|
| The big question is whether Podman Desktop will be (a) stable and
| not a memory-hog, (b) make container workflows on Mac/Windows as
| simple (conceptually at least) as on Linux, and (c) be a
| sustainable effort for the community that's still extremely Red
| Hat-centric.
|
| To that last point, I still see very little adoption outside of
| the Red Hat ecosystem. It seems like `docker-ce` is still
| installed on most servers, `docker-compose` for lightweight app
| orchestration, and when people use Kubernetes, few people know or
| care what underlying container management daemon is running.
| jacooper wrote:
| If you use compose, you really should avoid podman, its full of
| unsupported edge cases and other issues.
|
| That's why I don't bother with it on servers, I always use
| docker-ce with compose.
| ThatMedicIsASpy wrote:
| I've tried to make podman work so many times but one of my
| biggest issues is the lack of great documentation and support
| from third parties (that's okay!). I just have a hard time
| finding good examples well explained to gain anything out of
| it.
|
| I do think my issues are coming from not fully understanding
| rootless/rootful stuff combined with SELinux doing its thing
| as well.
|
| I like docker compose to deploy stuff.
|
| I do use podman+distrobox (Steam Deck & Fedora Kinoite)
|
| It looks like I can finally see my distrobox containers with
| podman desktop. The first time I installed it months ago I
| could see them.
| wronglebowski wrote:
| That's the disconnect I also experience. Working with multiple
| different organizations they either .
|
| 1. Use Docker Compose and have no container strategy
|
| 2. Have a container team and an orchestration platform.
|
| Not many organizations operate in the middle ground, seems
| difficult to do well with little overhead.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| I work on an operations team of about 2.5 people who handle
| everything for a small SaaS company and we're slowly
| containerizing. New systems are built and deployed in Docker
| and the legacy stuff is slowly getting there. We're using
| Swarm which I'm thinking is probably more like the middle
| ground.
| Arcanum-XIII wrote:
| I can write docker-compose file, run it on my laptop. Can't do
| that without spending 2 days of pre study with K8s. And to have
| it ready on a basic laptop is not fun. At all
|
| But K8s is maybe not the tool for that either.
| Tostino wrote:
| Rancher Desktop has been pretty seamless for me for local k8s
| development. Not too much different than a docker-compose.
| lmz wrote:
| Podman (Desktop) on Windows ate all my RAM when I left it up for
| a few days. Somehow it leaked wsl.exe / podman.exe process
| handles every time it ran the "podman machine" commands it uses
| to keep track of its VM.
| Art9681 wrote:
| Does the podman VM have Rosetta 2 acceleration or does it still
| use the slow qemu runtime on M series Macbooks? This is the main
| reason I switched to OrbStack which is a very promising
| alternative to all of this. Free for now but looks like they
| intend on making it a paid app in the future. The speed
| difference is significant.
| m4r71n wrote:
| Podman still uses QEMU on Mac:
| https://podman.io/docs/installation#macos
| ecnahc515 wrote:
| Qemu is the hypervisor in this situation. Which doesn't
| necessarily preclude having Rosetta acceleration of AMD64
| binaries within the ARM64 Linux guest itself.
|
| That said, as far as I know, the only official way to use
| Rosetta inside a Linux guest is using
| Virtualization.Framework, which allows mounting a Rosetta
| binfmt handler via Virtiofs. So it's also going to use Qemu
| inside the VM to handle running amd64 images, not Rosetta.
| paulddraper wrote:
| Ick. Doesn't it support AMD64?
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(page generated 2023-05-23 23:02 UTC)