[HN Gopher] Following UK antitrust order, Meta sells Giphy to Sh...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Following UK antitrust order, Meta sells Giphy to Shutterstock for
       $53M
        
       Author : mirthlessend
       Score  : 233 points
       Date   : 2023-05-23 12:29 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | Is there a handy list of companies owned by Meta? I had no idea
       | Giphy was one of their properties.
        
       | omneity wrote:
       | Can this be seen as some sort of laundering or collusion?
       | 
       | Surely somebody is making loads of money from an almost 10x
       | change in price.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | The sale was forced by the UK antitrust agency while Giphy is a
         | US company.
         | 
         | I guess it's theoretically possible that Americans colluded
         | with the British civil servants to scam Meta out of $350
         | million, but it seems unlikely.
        
           | tasuki wrote:
           | > The sale was forced by the UK antitrust agency while Giphy
           | is a US company.
           | 
           | That sounds... strange. Would China or Russia also have an
           | ability to force US companies to sell parts? Has Facebook
           | complied because they wanted to maintain good relations with
           | UK regulators?
        
             | zeroonetwothree wrote:
             | They could get penalized in various ways including being
             | forbidden to do business in the UK.
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | It was a court ordered sale, so it would seem that shutter
         | stock is getting a deal that meta otherwise wouldn't have put
         | on the table.
        
       | ec109685 wrote:
       | This still seems like such a random acquisition for the uk to
       | have blocked. Giphy has plenty of competition and gifs seem to he
       | waining in popularity anyway.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | It certainly padded some aspiring politician's resume, though
        
           | calpaterson wrote:
           | It was blocked by a quango, not by a politician.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_and_Markets_Author.
           | ..
        
             | giobox wrote:
             | CMA isn't a quango - its absolutely a direct government
             | org, established by Act of Parliament. Nothing "Non-
             | Governmental" to see here, its run by the Department for
             | Business and Trade.
             | 
             | From wikipedia:
             | 
             | Type Non-ministerial government department
             | 
             | "A non-ministerial department (NMD) is a government
             | department in its own right, but does not have its own
             | minister. However, it is accountable to Parliament through
             | its sponsoring ministers."
             | 
             | > https://www.gov.uk/guidance/public-bodies-reform
             | 
             | UK ministers (politicians) can absolutely influence the
             | CMA, there is no vote on its leaders - they are simply
             | appointed by the Business Secretary, who can pick whomever
             | they find most favorable to their own objectives. The
             | Business Secretary can be replaced at any time without a
             | vote by the Prime Minister too in a reshuffle.
             | 
             | The only real check on the CMA would be the UK's judicial
             | review process, if a decision was especially egregious.
        
               | calpaterson wrote:
               | The CMA is a quango:
               | 
               | > In the UK, the term quango covers different
               | "arm's-length" government bodies, including [...] non-
               | ministerial government departments
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quango
               | 
               | > The Competition and Markets Authority [...] is a non-
               | ministerial government department
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_and_Markets_Aut
               | hor...
               | 
               | But this specifics of what is and is not a quango don't
               | matter. The original claim implied that the decision was
               | made by a politician for political reasons and this isn't
               | the case.
        
             | airstrike wrote:
             | Sorry, I meant bureaucrat, not politician necessarily.
             | Still appointed by a politician, though
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | > Giphy has plenty of competition and gifs seem to he waining
         | in popularity anyway.
         | 
         | Am I in a bubble? I post and receive like 20+ gifs per day with
         | my IRL friends and family. The rate has shown no signs of
         | declining.
         | 
         | [EDIT] And what's _replacing_ them?
        
           | onychomys wrote:
           | You're not in a bubble, you're just old. The youths think
           | gifs are corny and uncool.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | What are they into, tiktoks/instagrams (I'm still annoyed
             | that I can't know if an instagram link is going to be an
             | image, or a video, these days--it's for photos, damnit!)
             | with captions? That's just gifs with worse UI.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Memes with JPEG artifacts.
               | 
               | Sending gifs from TV shows hasn't been popular since 2012
               | maybe. On Twitter it means you're attracting a horde of
               | middle aged moms.
        
               | SpaghettiCthulu wrote:
               | TIL that I, a member of the youth, am attracting middle
               | aged moms.
               | 
               | In all seriousness, I completely disagree with your
               | stance. My friends and I send gifs to each other almost
               | daily.
        
         | xwowsersx wrote:
         | gifs are waning in popularity? Giphy serves up 10B gifs a day
         | and Instagram now allows you to post a gif as a comment. Why do
         | you say they're waning?
        
           | giobox wrote:
           | If giphy was doing so amazing, how does that explain the
           | enormous write down today? Sure you can argue Meta overpaid,
           | and there are some bounds applied by the regulator on how
           | they could sell it, but I don't think that accounts for the
           | entire gap.
        
             | stonogo wrote:
             | You appear to have confused "popular" and "profitable"
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | $53M sounds like a rounding error for accountants at Meta. Why
       | was this such a big deal?
        
         | teacpde wrote:
         | > acquired for $400 million three years ago
        
       | mktk1001 wrote:
       | Typical EU with its regulatory overreach. They haven't innovated
       | in years and now milking American companies anyway they can.
        
       | deet wrote:
       | This is the second divestiture of an acquisition in two weeks by
       | Meta.
       | 
       | Last week they spun out Kustomer
       | https://www.kustomer.com/blog/new-chapter-standalone-company...
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | This was forced by a regulatory body. Strangely, it was forced
         | _after_ the transaction had closed rather than blocked before
         | closing.
        
           | desas wrote:
           | That's because Facebook didn't wait for the UK regulatory
           | body to come to a decision before completing the acquisition.
           | 
           | You don't have to tell the UK Competition & Markets Authority
           | about an acquisition before it happens, but if you don't then
           | you risk something like this happening. While an
           | investigation is ongoing it may block some steps towards
           | integrating companies and it gets about six months to make a
           | decision. Facebook then spent a few years appealing and
           | negotiating. Presumably giphy spent all of this time in some
           | sort of limbo.
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | For different reasons though.
        
       | jt2190 wrote:
       | > The announcement comes... after the U.K.'s [Competition and
       | Markets Authority] issued a final order for Meta to sell Giphy,
       | on the grounds that the merger reduced dynamic competition.
       | 
       | > ... Shutterstock said it expects the deal to close next month,
       | with Meta also signing a commercial agreement to continue
       | accessing Giphy's content across its product suite.
       | 
       | So, Meta still sees value in a Giphy they don't own.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | Well, sure. They didn't want to sell. This arrangement lets
         | them "sell" Giphy and still get the benefits of access to its
         | content. Kinda feels like an attempt to end-run around the
         | order.
        
           | ffpip wrote:
           | Meta already had access to it's content, the same way other
           | social media platforms access Giphy's GIF library.
        
             | pavlov wrote:
             | Yeah, this commercial agreement just returns the status quo
             | before the acquisition.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | This is a loss of somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 employee-
       | years.
        
       | smashah wrote:
       | Great, now they should be forced to sell Whatsapp.
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | The CMA's order for Meta to sell Giphy _after_ the transaction
       | had already closed will go down in history as one of the biggest,
       | most mind-boggling examples of regulatory overreach
       | 
       | Their whole argument was based on the fact that Giphy was
       | CONTEMPLATING expanding their advertising business to the UK so
       | the acquisition could hurt potential, future competition. Give me
       | a break
       | 
       | https://www.klgates.com/CMA-Blocks-Meta/Giphy-It-Might-Be-th...
        
         | mjburgess wrote:
         | Presumably it's more to do with 50% of the ad market being
         | meta, and 50% being google. Basically, the ad monopolies should
         | be broken up -- so any acquisition whatsoever over any ad-
         | supported platform is anti-trust.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | As far as I can tell, the watchdog and CMA started doing their
         | job immediately when the news of the acquisition broke. Then
         | three years of back and forth and legal appeals followed, and
         | now Facebook has finally lost, as was expected three years ago.
         | 
         | The original order for the sale came in 2021, after an extended
         | investigation from that same year, following an initial
         | investigation started June 2020, about a month after the sale
         | became public knowledge.
         | 
         | Giphy and Facebook didn't give the CMA an opportunity to block
         | the sale before it happened, so of course antitrust action had
         | to occur after the fact. That's not regulatory overreach,
         | that's lack of a time machine.
        
         | kennywinker wrote:
         | Overreach is when antitrust laws are used to break up trusts?
        
         | super256 wrote:
         | Im curious why they aren't touching Tenor and Google. Isn't
         | that constellation basically the same?
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | I wonder about that too.
           | 
           | My guess is that when the Tenor sale happened back in 2018
           | there were still enough of small companies that competed,
           | Giphy being one of the last major ones to get taken over.
           | 
           | I don't know if antitrust watchdogs can still start a
           | successful case five years later, but I would be very happy
           | if they could undo that sale too. These tech companies are
           | big enough already, they don't need more power.
        
       | elintknower wrote:
       | wow, sounds like they sold off Giphy for pennies on the dollar,
       | potentially at a loss?
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | The title in the article quite literally says they bought it
         | for 400m and sold it now for 53m after a few years.
         | 
         | The potential of a loss is pretty good I think.
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | $53m seems overpriced
        
       | berkle4455 wrote:
       | -
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | The UK is deciding what companies operating in the UK can and
         | can't do.
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | Yep makes total sense. I was shocked by how much they paid for it
       | initially and could never justify that cost. 54 million seems
       | more apt, but about 30 will be ok too.
        
       | berkle4455 wrote:
       | How is the UK dictating what US-based companies (Meta, Microsoft)
       | can and can't do?
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | Well, if those companies prefer to not comply, they can always
         | cease to do business in the UK. Nobody is forcing them.
         | 
         | What they can't do is operate in the UK, and at the same time
         | avoid UK regulations.
        
           | zeroonetwothree wrote:
           | Obviously companies must follow local regulations but I think
           | it is a bit different when they regulate that one US company
           | can't buy another US company. This has no direct effect on UK
           | citizens. Of course legally the UK can do whatever they want,
           | but philosophically regulating this type of behavior feels a
           | bit more unusual and excessively overreaching.
        
             | surgical_fire wrote:
             | > I think it is a bit different when they regulate that one
             | US company can't buy another US company. This has no direct
             | effect on UK citizens.
             | 
             | Incorrect.
             | 
             | What the UK decided is that this acquisition can be harmful
             | for UK citizens, and in order to continue doing business in
             | the UK, they must comply with regulation.
             | 
             | This is actually the regulatory institutions of the country
             | acting on behalf of the citizens instead of allowing
             | corporations to freely pursue their monopolistic
             | tendencies.
             | 
             | There's no overreach here. Meta is free to tell the UK to
             | just fuck off and ignore the regulation. But then they
             | would have to stop doing business in the UK (and possibly
             | later on the EU, that tends to be even stricter).
             | 
             | These are countries acting on their own jurisdiction, and
             | companies deciding that doing business in that jurisdiction
             | is more profitable than keeping the acquisition.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | In general, if you're a multinational, doing a merger, you'll
         | want approval from authorities in the US, EU, probably UK (who
         | tend to behave quite similarly to the EU ones), maybe China if
         | you do business there. Where you're _based_ is almost
         | irrelevant; if you want to do business globally, that means
         | making yourself subject to a certain amount of local
         | regulation.
         | 
         | If this were not the case, it would be impossible to regulate
         | multinationals _at all_; a multinational thwarted by its home
         | country would simply relocate (this happens anyway at the
         | edges; note that most of the giant gambling countries are
         | domiciled in weird island nations, say).
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | Such a great week for Zuck!
        
       | kastden wrote:
       | How does Giphy make money? Does companies like Slack etc. pay for
       | the integration?
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | It doesn't.
         | 
         | The idea (pre-aquisition, afaik Meta deprioritized that) was
         | letting companies pay to push their gifs. Since companies can't
         | directly buy ads in your private conversations, giphy could
         | offer them the exciting opportunity to push people to send ads
         | in meme-format to their friends! (I wish I was joking, but that
         | was their framing)
        
           | dorkwood wrote:
           | > Since companies can't directly buy ads in your private
           | conversations
           | 
           | Dumb question, but why can't they?
        
             | detaro wrote:
             | Because no messenger app (that I know of) offers that? For
             | now, that's probably not quite palatable to users.
        
         | notjustanymike wrote:
         | Turns out gifs and analytics tracking pixels have a LOT in
         | common.
        
           | generj wrote:
           | Analytics tracking pixels normally ARE GIFs, specifically a
           | 43 byte transparent 1x1 GIF.
           | 
           | But most "GIFs" are not GIFs but rather Mp4, mov, or webm or
           | some other compressed file format. Actual GIFs are extremely
           | wasteful of bandwidth and not hardware optimized. The name
           | lives on though.
        
             | KomoD wrote:
             | > Analytics tracking pixels normally ARE GIFs, specifically
             | a 43 byte transparent 1x1 GIF.
             | 
             | Is there a reason for this?
             | 
             | And no, a GIF is a GIF, nothing else is a GIF, an mp4 is
             | not a gif, webm is not a gif.
        
               | SpaghettiCthulu wrote:
               | you can say that, but the big gif hosting serve other
               | formats with better compression by default.
        
       | giarc wrote:
       | If you've used Giphy, you may notice a ton of the gifs are from
       | the CBC show "Schitts Creek". It seems like their media team did
       | an incredible job clipping up the show and uploading a ton of
       | high quality gifs to the platform. I'm reminded of the show
       | almost everyday when searching for gifs. It's likely a
       | (relatively) low effort, high reward piece of marketing.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | Idk how they're business works, but I think more than few
         | content properties curated gifs and possibly paid for search
         | position.
        
         | whamlastxmas wrote:
         | According to other posts CBC may be paying for that top
         | placement
        
         | furyofantares wrote:
         | Enschittification
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | That's odd. I rarely see Schitt's Creek gifs. Maybe you just
         | search for David-ish things a lot? :)
        
           | giarc wrote:
           | I'd say 80% of my gifs are either from The Office US or
           | Anchorman, so you could be right!
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | Giphy's huge, way too huge for one effort to make impact, and I
         | rarely see Schitt's Creek's photos. Confirmation bias? :)
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | Just search for an emotion: confused, amazed, enraged,
           | bitter, insulted, offended.
           | 
           | For all I've listed, Shitt's Creek watermark is visible near
           | the top. That said, it's not the worst one. While I
           | experimented with such prompts, I've seen a lot more (HBO)
           | Max watermarks, but they don't do show-specific watermarks.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Not the OP, but I see a ton of Schitt's Creek "reaction gifs"
           | on Twitter replies, which are usually embeds from Giphy. The
           | most common ones are SC, reality TV, maybe the Office US.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | I see Schitt's Creek and a few other shows, where a high
             | percentage of the gifs have the same logo in the same spot
             | and/or identical, fancy, pop-in captioning. They seem to be
             | "official" gifs of some sort--I'd just assumed it was a
             | pay-for-placement kind of thing. Also, sports gifs, where
             | it's some player in their jersey saying something, often in
             | front of a white background, and there are a ton of them
             | and they all look like they were captured in the same shoot
             | --identical framing, lighting, everything--and I find it
             | unlikely ordinary users found some video like that and cut
             | up _every single player 's segment_ into gifs. Those also
             | seem like some kind of official effort.
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | I think that it's also to do with how visually exaggerated the
         | four main characters on the show are. That style of acting
         | leads to some great gifs that don't need context.
        
         | jzb wrote:
         | There's a few shows I've checked out solely because I've seen
         | so many reaction GIFs and stills from them. ("Community" comes
         | to mind.) If your show lends itself to the format, it does seem
         | like a great way to market it.
        
         | 7speter wrote:
         | I'm trying to remember if it was giphy that if you search for
         | Star Trek, 90% of the results are Star Trek Discovery gifs.
         | 
         | I guess deals with a given id holder was one way to monetize
         | this sort of service, and totally stifle the organic weirdness
         | and randomness at the same time.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | I think some of that may just be how _well-suited_ Moira and
         | David in particular are to that sort of use. You also see a lot
         | of reaction gifs using Lucille from Arrested Development, who's
         | very much the same archetype as Moira.
        
           | giarc wrote:
           | Yes, but the format is very professional. It always includes
           | the text, with some words emphasized in yellow. These are
           | done intentionally, not just someone clipping a youtube
           | video.
        
             | dabluecaboose wrote:
             | And, critically, always have the little "Schitts Creek"
             | logo in the corner, reminding the user where the funny came
             | from!
        
       | mwlp wrote:
       | I find tenor's selection of gifs to be much better. I suspect
       | Discord users are creating much of their content.
        
         | zip1234 wrote:
         | Tenor is owned by Google, which is all the more confusing for
         | why the Giphy sale was blocked by UK regulators.
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | I think the CMA has much more leverage / has been given much
           | more power in recent years
        
           | zeroonetwothree wrote:
           | Google greased the right palms and Meta didn't perhaps
        
       | rhaway84773 wrote:
       | Meta got what they wanted. Dara on Giphy's users.
        
       | moneywoes wrote:
       | Was giphy uk based?
        
         | WJW wrote:
         | No, they're from NYC.
        
       | not_your_vase wrote:
       | You have to spend money to make money.
        
         | BonoboIO wrote:
         | Sounds like the SoftBank VC motto
        
           | insane_dreamer wrote:
           | No, SoftBank's motto is you have to spend $10 to make $5.
        
             | not_your_vase wrote:
             | I think we are all talking about the very same phenomenon.
             | 
             | > Be BigCo
             | 
             | > Buy something for lotsa money
             | 
             | > Sell it for a fraction of the buying price
             | 
             | > ???
             | 
             | > Profit!
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | I'm fascinated by the economics of image sharing sites. They fill
       | a fundamental need to share images across other platforms but
       | they seem expensive to run and difficult to monetize.
       | 
       | Have there been successful image hosters that weren't just
       | spending money to capture users in order to sell out or
       | eventually enshitten (imgur, giphy, imageshack)?
       | 
       | Shutterstock is selling prints so it will be interesting to see
       | what they do with giphy.
       | 
       | I remember when Imgur started and they were really nice and
       | seemed to be a low cost (I think only one employee) so they could
       | host barebones without making the experience bad for users (ads,
       | data mining, etc).
        
         | dugmartin wrote:
         | I'm sure its been done (I'm guessing many times) but my thought
         | would be to have a free service that auto watermarks all images
         | with the image hosts domain name and upsell a paid account that
         | doesn't watermark images. If you get 0.01% paid and keep costs
         | low by shopping around for CDNs I think it could be a good
         | "lifestyle" business as long as you had some kind of auto
         | moderation system.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | WhatsApp used to charge $1/year before the Meta acquisition.
           | If you could convince people to pay $3/GB, that'd be enough
           | to front the content with Cloudflare and store the data in
           | the Internet Archive forever. Still need to solve the
           | moderation problem, but it isn't impossible.
        
             | BizarroLand wrote:
             | If people are paying to host the material, isn't what they
             | host on them?
             | 
             | You could even have a lawyer add something like, "You are
             | purchasing hosting rights for yourself and therefore take
             | all responsibility for what you host. We will work with any
             | relevant government authorities whose jurisdiction you are
             | under to provide them information of your activities on
             | this service if the products you provide violate local,
             | state, or federal laws. You agree to post nothing illegal
             | and if you violate that you agree to own all
             | responsibility, legal, personal, or financial, for your
             | posted materials... blah blah blah"
             | 
             | And then submit everything posted to csam scanners.
             | 
             | Wouldn't that be enough?
        
               | notatoad wrote:
               | > We will work with any relevant government authorities
               | blah blah blah
               | 
               | the problem is that costs money. you either pay the staff
               | to do the moderation at upload, or you pay the staff to
               | handle all the various governments that come after you.
               | either way it's expensive, but dealing with the
               | government's lawyers is probably more expensive. and no,
               | just running through a CSAM scanner isn't nearly enough.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | Shutterstock sells stock photos. They have an excellent
         | inventory and good prices and I've bought plenty from them in
         | the past for web projects.
         | 
         |  _But_.. their business just went down the plughole with the
         | advent of text-to-image AI. Now you can get pretty much exactly
         | the image you needed without having to spend hours trawling
         | through pre-made photographs.
        
           | Anunayj wrote:
           | And it's extremely funny since most of these text to image
           | models were container Shutterstock watermarked images, to the
           | point it thinks humans see the world with a big shutterstock
           | watermark across it with certain prompts.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | It seems like and endless Whac-A-Mole of free unprofitable
         | services.
         | 
         | Can this go in infinitely?
        
           | somedude895 wrote:
           | Rising interest rates are putting a stop to this. Finally.
        
           | notatoad wrote:
           | it will continue for as long as VCs allow it to.
           | 
           | it's essentially just burning through VC money to provide
           | free image hosting. every time the funders start trying to
           | make their money back, somebody will start a new free image
           | host funded by a new batch of suckers.
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | My guess is that someone will eventually end up creating a
             | bootstrapped lifestyle business, similar to craigslist.
             | 
             | Assuming they don't encrappen it, and there's some
             | tangential thing they can charge a nominal fee for that
             | rides their network effects, they'll have a lasting
             | business that will provide ~5-10 people with comfortable
             | income indefinitely.
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | I wonder if adds will sell well enough, or if there will
               | be enough paying customers to pay for the server and
               | storage.
        
               | notatoad wrote:
               | i'm pretty sure imgur started as a bootstrapped lifestyle
               | business. and that lasted a few years before they hopped
               | on the funding train
        
           | xyzzy4747 wrote:
           | There's always speculative value because some executive
           | somewhere thinks they can turn it around and make it
           | profitable. So it can keep being flipped across different
           | owners. It can go infinitely because the cash comes from
           | elsewhere.
        
         | lapufifarre668 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Rockjodd wrote:
         | Not a general pure image sharing site, but one dedicate for
         | wallpapers (and more) for your personal device (ie your phone),
         | but Zedge did/still provides sharing UGC (user generated
         | content) and as well a premium service for artists.
         | 
         | They are in the margins of positive income at least last I
         | checked.
        
         | iambateman wrote:
         | I think the promise of giphy was that advertisers would pay for
         | sponsored gifs. So The Voice gets top placement for "wild
         | crowd" gif and then gets shared X,000,000 times in a native
         | way.
         | 
         | It's a sensible thesis that appears to be invalidated for now.
        
           | aklsdjfhaiuehf wrote:
           | > appears to be invalidated for now.
           | 
           | why do you say so?
           | 
           | Advertising within the seller doesn't help "the ecosystem".
           | (auditing, Ad networks, clearing house, more auditing, nsa-
           | ish, etc)
           | 
           | If facebook kept it and integrated on whatsapp (their only
           | upward active user product) then they would sell ads there
           | and that's it.
           | 
           | With them forced to sell to a 3rd party, now that 3rd party
           | will have to offer reverse auctions like every other
           | publisher. Everyone will get their sweet stream of user
           | profiles and "the ecosystem" will be happy. It is very much
           | not invalidated now.
        
           | petercooper wrote:
           | I agree. It's interesting because nearly all the GIF searches
           | I use on a regular basis are terrible, yet I wouldn't be too
           | perturbed if I were given relevant/funny/interesting GIFs
           | that contained product placement (say, a GIF for "cheers!"
           | might be someone raising a glass of Coke).
           | 
           | I think the problem might be that advertisers can't control
           | context. Someone might say something vile (but legal) on
           | Twitter and get lots of meme GIFs in the replies that
           | advertisers would be very unhappy about, and it's a more
           | direct connection than having your sponsored tweet appear in
           | the chain.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | A gif sharing service could provide code to the big
             | embedders (ie. twitter, facebook, whatsapp) which scans for
             | bad words and phrases and decides if a particular gif is to
             | be suggested for posting in that particular conversation.
             | If the conversation isn't advertiser suitable, the user
             | just gets to choose from mundane non-branded gifs.
             | 
             | That should be enough to satisfy most brand advertisers.
        
           | stemlord wrote:
           | I think giphy more tried to play the analytics tracking
           | angle. They made it prohibitively difficult to right click >
           | copy .gif url from their site seemingly so they could control
           | sharing through trackable means
        
             | zamnos wrote:
             | Right. the reason why Facebook wanted Giphy was because
             | they can use that to track users and develop deeper
             | profiles to better sell ads to corporations. eg User
             | searches for "drink", and chooses from a picture of Coca
             | Cola or Pepsi, but chooses Pepsi. Coca Cola'll pay to
             | advertise to current Pepsi drinkers.
        
         | amne wrote:
         | And this is exactly where IPFS makes sense for me. As long as
         | the community wants something to exist it can exist for free.
         | If only you want it to exist, host it. When you no longer care,
         | it will exist until no one hosts it anymore.
        
           | stemlord wrote:
           | If this were the only option, I bet most people would realize
           | how much of the web really doesn't benefit them in any
           | meaningful way, but merely gets used because it's there, and
           | can be removed from their lives with minimal grief
        
           | nebalee wrote:
           | Platforms are somewhat shielded from liability for user
           | provided content. How does that work for IPFS?
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | Should be okay if you're in the US. I wouldn't want to host
             | in other countries unless I was a lawyer.
             | 
             | (Where "okay" means "you may get subpoenas you have to
             | answer.")
        
         | rickdeckard wrote:
         | Shutterstock is selling images with license (!), that's
         | certainly a more stable business model than "crowd-sourced
         | image-hosting".
         | 
         | Giphy seems to become a advertising platform itself, with
         | advertisers using it as part of viral campaigns (i.e. have
         | related gifs available when launching a movie), although I
         | doubt that created alot of revenue so far.
         | 
         | That said, it's striking how well-embedded giphy is across a
         | huge amount of messaging platforms, which is likely their
         | biggest asset today...
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | > Shutterstock is selling images with license (!), that's
           | certainly a more stable business model than "crowd-sourced
           | image-hosting".
           | 
           | It definitely used to be one at least, but with the rise of
           | automatic generation I wonder how well will Shutterstock be
           | in the next 5 years.
        
             | rickdeckard wrote:
             | Was curious as well, so I looked up their last investor
             | report. In 2022 they had 24% profit growth, with $32.8m on
             | $215.3m revenue. They invest alot in AI image generation as
             | well, and already offer a commercial product.
             | 
             | For their big customers their product might be the best of
             | both worlds: AI-generated images based on prompts, with
             | full legal clearance on use.
             | 
             | I doubt a marketing department of i.e. HP wants to risk a
             | legal dispute about some image they used because it was
             | generated by a model which was trained on unlicensed
             | content.
             | 
             | Once this scenario is legally solid though....yes, I wonder
             | how well Shutterstock will do...
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Microstock was certainly a mini-rage for a while. All the
         | photographers I knew who played with it got out pretty quickly.
         | There was very little money in it (I played a very little and
         | don't think I ever sold anything.) and a lot of classic stock
         | photography of people requires model release forms.
        
         | throwitawaylord wrote:
         | Shutterstock does not sell prints.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | Thanks, I confused it with Shutterfly.
        
         | KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
         | Just remember the prices for AWS, CloudFlare, and GCP are for
         | application software. Raw bandwidth are a lot cheaper when it
         | comes to content focused CDNs and dedicated hosting.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | Image hosting has to deal with the moderation problem,
           | especially if it wants to monetize through advertising.
        
       | spaceman_2020 wrote:
       | Side note, but how defensible is Shutterstock's business after
       | the generative AI boom?
       | 
       | I understand that Shutterstock's customers need royalty-free,
       | high-res images with clear copyrights. Is the lack of clear
       | copyrights the biggest hurdle to generative AI art adoption, or
       | is the quality of the art itself the bigger hurdle?
        
         | automatic6131 wrote:
         | The people writing articles that are... appropriate for AI
         | generated mush didn't buy stock images, and organisations like
         | e.g. the BBC are not going to put uncanny valley images of
         | hospitalness on the banner of their articles.
        
           | detritus wrote:
           | Funny, because I live in the world of designers and a lot of
           | them see a very near future where generated images replace
           | 'real' photographed stock, if some are not there already.
        
             | ehnto wrote:
             | It is already being used in commercial work. I know this
             | from being in the industry, but I was also served an AI
             | generated advertisement from a real company on YouTube
             | today so it's in the wild too. It was a human talking about
             | the product, you could tell it was AI by the way it reset
             | it's face to the same position every sentence, and the
             | stilted speaking. But it was honestly quite shocking, I
             | could see someone not knowledgeable in tech being a bit
             | weirded out but still convinced it was just a weird actor.
             | 
             | It will be in a lot of advertising really quickly,
             | advertising uses a lot of image and footage fodder for lack
             | of a nicer way to put it. "Lady walking with smile" slap
             | the brand assets on it, hide the AI hands, done.
        
               | detritus wrote:
               | Amusingly, I've literally just seen an example posted on
               | a designer forum..
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/Oqxaru6.png
               | https://i.imgur.com/Vcp6JdQ.png
        
           | artursapek wrote:
           | You'll be surprised how soon AI generated images are
           | indescernible from high quality stock photos
        
             | andybak wrote:
             | It's not as if stock photos represent some unreachable
             | pinnacle of human creative excellence in any case.
        
               | artursapek wrote:
               | Exactly, it's not a high bar haha
        
               | spaceman_2020 wrote:
               | I can easily see AI generated background music replace
               | all current background music.
               | 
               | I would assume AI would also be good at formulaic stuff
               | like jingles and basic pop music.
        
           | dorkwood wrote:
           | Stock images were also popular in advertising, since they
           | were considered cheaper than hiring an illustrator or
           | photographer. AI-generated images are cheaper again, and most
           | people can't tell the difference.
        
           | patall wrote:
           | Heise, one of the most reputable and in-depth tech publishers
           | in Germany is using them. Mostly for articles where an image
           | doesn't add much (like generic battery image in a text about
           | new battery tech), but still. Possibly because images
           | increase engagement
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | There are a lot of cases where a pub wants a graphic or
             | image (perhaps depending on the pub's style), just about
             | any graphic or image. Yes, for example, people are probably
             | more likely to click on a social media link with an image.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I think there are a couple answers:
         | 
         | - Quality is still pretty big. And if I have to spend hours
         | prompt engineering, is it really a win?
         | 
         | - That said, there is some copyright murkiness and I probably
         | wouldn't use generative AI in a marketing campaign as a large
         | company. A lot of more incidental use like conference
         | presentations, I wouldn't worry too much.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | Coca Cola already used Stable Diffusion in a big ad. (Most of
           | it is still digital artists, but it's getting into the
           | workflow.)
           | 
           | https://analyticsdrift.com/coca-colas-generative-ai-
           | advertis...
           | 
           | Coca Cola is also getting in on UGC GenAI and trying to
           | engage customers in participating.
           | 
           | GenAI in ads is going to be huge.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | For the near-term getting into the workflow is probably the
             | key term. I'm hopeless with drawing but, for someone
             | skilled with Photoshop and art generally, I can absolutely
             | see getting generative AI output and then spending some
             | time manipulating especially with all the new Photoshop ML
             | tools.
        
         | a13o wrote:
         | I think they're well positioned. The winners of the generative
         | AI space will be players with lots of copyrighted content.
         | Shutterstock was already top of mind, and purchasing rights to
         | all the images in Giphy strengthens their claim.
         | 
         | There's two paths. Either copyright claims lock down training,
         | and Shutterstock now licenses their training dataset to
         | companies; or generative art trained on open images lose their
         | novelty (think Comic Sans but for photos) and Shutterstock
         | gains an upper hand by having an existing pipeline of novel
         | images to train with.
        
         | throwitawaylord wrote:
         | Former Shutterstock employee (was laid off in 12/2022).
         | 
         | Shutterstock makes most of it's money from two operations:
         | 
         | 1. Editorial content - images/video of news related events.
         | Pictures of celebrities or photos of Biden, pictures of the Met
         | Gala, etc. They have exclusive deals that keep this pipeline
         | alive.
         | 
         | 2. Commercial licensing - HBO/Netflix will often bulk buy a set
         | of a couple hundred images for promoting their new show.
         | 
         | Everything else is trash web development and tech. They fired
         | their AI team and their current AI tech is just rewrapped
         | existing engines such as DALL-E. In the last five years they're
         | internal teams redesigned their website/marketplace at least 3
         | times. From React to React to NextJS. They frequently purchase
         | companies and lay off the teams after about a year (see ya
         | Giphy).
         | 
         | Shutterstock doesn't have to be good at tech because they can
         | feed off of the work of other companies doing it for them.
         | That's why they let companies like Facebook blatantly train off
         | their data set. That's why they consumed PicMonkey.
         | 
         | To make it seem like they are an innovator they rely on yearly
         | announcements of investment in new fads (like their current AI
         | efforts) and lay off tons of teams to boost their stock price
         | so they can say they save on labor costs.
         | 
         | They are ripe to be displaced either by a smarter competitor
         | that can offer better compensation per image or by Getty
         | Images.
        
           | throwitawaylord wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | Stevvo wrote:
         | You can probably answer your question by using
         | shutterstock.com; generative AI is one click away from the
         | stock image library.
        
       | randomcarbloke wrote:
       | that seems counterproductive.
        
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