[HN Gopher] Modding Age of Empires II with a Sprite-Diffuser
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Modding Age of Empires II with a Sprite-Diffuser
        
       Author : serverlessmom
       Score  : 385 points
       Date   : 2023-05-21 23:14 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.engine.study)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.engine.study)
        
       | trojanalert wrote:
       | Some games are timeless classics, and to use Stable Diffusion to
       | do this is incredible. Looks absolutely stunning. And yes, can we
       | please have the 2 sec lag removed so we can inspect and actually
       | see what Generative AI was able to output
        
       | b1n wrote:
       | This is great, can't wait unti this is taken to the next level...
       | 
       | (they touch on this at the end of the article)
       | 
       | - An RTS without units or buildings by default.
       | 
       | - The players enter prompts and creates any unit they can
       | imagine.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Same here. I'm looking forward when this is used in all games.
         | They could ship with just a LLM, gameplay logic, and some base
         | assets that could be used as source. Then let the player choose
         | and generate assets in any style they want. This could be
         | limited with some predefined parameters, or entirely free form.
         | Exciting times ahead.
        
         | totetsu wrote:
         | I was wondering about how this could affect gameplay. Like
         | disguising your buildings by looking like other buildings..
         | That example of all the buildings being made of books. How can
         | I tell the difference between a barracks and an archery range..
         | or just a patch of empty grass? I used to play a text based MUD
         | that had a high level spell that let you create illusion spells
         | that just output text of your choosing onto other players
         | screens. It was often used to just verbatim send the You Died,
         | text and ruin peoples day for a moment.
        
           | rootw0rm wrote:
           | i used to do the same thing, but with simple say/tell/shout
           | commands + terminal control codes to move cursor/overwrite
           | text/etc. was lots of fun =)
           | 
           | edit - worked with zMUD anyways
        
           | chii wrote:
           | it'd be interesting to make a game where the units aren't
           | hardcoded either - and to play against someone, you'd have to
           | "figure out" what their units did and what weakness it would
           | have (i imagine it would work by a point system, where for
           | example, if you put more into health, their attack would be
           | weaker etc).
        
             | totetsu wrote:
             | SMAC let you do this. The components all had costs, and the
             | reactor upgrades increased their power, and IIRC reduced
             | the costs. So as you advanced you picked and chose what
             | frames, reactors, components, armor you want. It let you do
             | things like Colony pods with orbital insertion, or
             | submarine probe teams. Very fun.
        
       | aledalgrande wrote:
       | This is absolutely epic! Love AoE and also the idea! Stable
       | diffusion is such a creativity enabler. Hope we will see more of
       | this! Carmageddon next?!
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Waiting for someone to get all generative AI'esq with Myst.
         | That will be a fun day.
        
       | triggerity wrote:
       | It should not take too long for us to use something like this to
       | reupscale low poly game footage from YouTube or old archives
       | (like D2 / Diablo 2 remastered) and style transfer to enjoy it in
       | the style we prefer.
       | 
       | Great that someone did what I wanted to try and never tried it :)
        
       | aww_dang wrote:
       | I've been looking for something like this for 4 directional
       | sprites with interchangeable equipment.
        
       | kayson wrote:
       | This is a game that came out in 1999! More than 20 years later
       | there have been two remakes, there's still a huge and healthy
       | community and a thriving pro scene. And now someone is using
       | relatively cutting edge image AI to mod the sprites.
       | 
       | It's crazy to me how some of these old games have such staying
       | power (Super Smash Bros Melee is another that comes to mind).
        
         | biohax2015 wrote:
         | Tetris on the NES still has massive tournaments. It's pretty
         | interesting to watch these super-young games (relative to
         | chess, tennis, etc.) mature and develop as genuine fields of
         | competition.
        
         | EamonnMR wrote:
         | The staying power makes me feel kind of sad, because it
         | represents a lack of vitality... they've cleared the local
         | space, like some sort of planetoid, and newcomers have little
         | chance.
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | It's not that newcomers have little chance, but more the
           | symptom showing that there's little interest for competitive
           | AoE2 play among newcomers. Like Starcraft Brood War, that
           | still features Flash, Jaedong and Bisu.
           | 
           | You can compare it to Starcraft 2, whose scene remains quite
           | attractive, and the top 4 European players (all of them being
           | top 10 world) are just 25 23, 21 and 18 years old.
        
             | throwaway6734 wrote:
             | >It's not that newcomers have little chance, but more the
             | symptom showing that there's little interest for
             | competitive AoE2 play among newcomers
             | 
             | This isn't true. Hera & Lierey are two of the best AoE2
             | players and are both young.
             | 
             | There's an S-Tier tournament happening this week for anyone
             | interested:
             | https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/King_of_the_Desert/5
        
           | flohofwoe wrote:
           | The games that survived for so long are simply that good (so
           | it's basically survivorship bias). There are plenty of new
           | indie RTS games on PC, the vitality is definitely there. But
           | there's no longer big publisher money behind it like in the
           | heydays and without big marketing campaigns those games are
           | much less visible.
           | 
           | But if you search a bit in the RTS section, there are
           | definitely some gems on Steam (e.g. Northgard comes to mind,
           | and currently I'm having a lot of fun with Timberborn,
           | although that's a city builder, not a competitive RTS). Oh,
           | and WARNO, even if it still has a lot of early-access
           | roughness.
        
           | TulliusCicero wrote:
           | > they've cleared the local space, like some sort of
           | planetoid, and newcomers have little chance.
           | 
           | The newcomers to the RTS scene are largely badly made.
           | Company of Heroes 3 has already dropped below Company of
           | Heroes 2 playercount despite having come out just a few
           | months ago. AoE4 also had plenty of problems (no ranked
           | ladder at launch? it took 6 months), though it being Relic,
           | that's not very surprising. I'm on the r/realtimestrategy
           | subreddit a lot, and basically every RTS that flops, well,
           | there are very good reasons for that that you'll see people
           | mention. It's not just "oh I'm cool with AoE/Starcraft and
           | won't try anything else". There are some quite cool fan
           | games, especially in the Total Annihilation-like space, but
           | of course they don't have as much splash/marketing.
           | 
           | One of the core problems is probably devs streamlining away
           | complexity, especially mechanical complexity or base
           | building. Nearly every RTS dev for the last 15 years seems to
           | beat on this drum of, "We're not gonna be Starcraft! We're
           | gonna be easier for casual players!" and then they fail
           | miserably and you look at the top 3 RTSes: Starcraft 2, Age
           | of Empires 2, Starcraft 1. It's almost like mechanical
           | complexity and base building can be good things!
           | 
           | I think Starcraft 2 had the right of it with the endless co-
           | op mode introduced in the second expansion, that thing was
           | very popular with more casual players (it was the most
           | popular mode in the game at least for a while). While it
           | retained the same core feel and mechanics of the 'regular'
           | game, they had a lot of variety with the different commanders
           | (basically subfactions) that could appeal to different
           | players, including ones that were easier/had less base
           | building. But you could still have a fairly traditional
           | commander if you wanted one, so it was the best of both
           | worlds.
           | 
           | And it's easy to see how the mode could be expanded on too:
           | more army customizability, more variety in missions (instead
           | of nearly every mission being 2 bases, you could vary that
           | number up), unlockables/items/rewards from missions, varying
           | numbers of players on a team instead of exactly 2, raid
           | missions, mini-campaigns or storylines, etc.
           | 
           | Frost Giant is also planning to make 3v3 an actual
           | competitive mode in terms of balance and design for
           | Stormgate, which is...rare. I can't think of a competitive
           | RTS off hand that was balanced around teams rather than 1v1,
           | or in addition to 1v1. That might help too, team games are
           | more social and often more popular.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | It's hard to make a good RTS that both satisfies the
             | competitive players and the people who want to just do
             | various forms of comp-stomp.
        
               | hermitdev wrote:
               | AOE4 has been an interesting journey for someone that
               | prefers the good ol fashioned comp-stomp. It wasn't long
               | before I was easily taking on 4 of the hardest AI and
               | easily stomping them on certain maps, like mountain pass.
               | But, they've progressively made the AI into a much
               | tougher opponent. It's actually challenging now, and I'm
               | only back up to 2 hardest, 2 hard with AI teammates on
               | the same map. Can't speak to pvp; I've not tried at all.
        
               | TulliusCicero wrote:
               | I don't think it is, really.
               | 
               | Brood War was famous for 7v1 comp stomps being very
               | popular in custom games, and it was obviously huge
               | competitively, it's _the_ super hardcore competitive RTS,
               | even if it wasn 't really planned that way.
               | 
               | The PvE comp stomp crowd seems to really like the co-op
               | mode in Starcraft 2 that was introduced. To the extent
               | that they have complaints, it's mostly that they wish
               | there was even more stuff in it.
               | 
               | I think for the most part, the things that competitive
               | players and casual players want aren't really at odds.
               | They're usually orthogonal desires.
               | 
               | But what does exist, are a lot of people who say "I want
               | to play RTS, but" and will never be satisfied. Like,
               | there's always tons of people saying that they just want
               | an easier to play RTS than Starcraft, and there's been
               | tons of those, and hardly anyone plays them.
        
           | Dalewyn wrote:
           | The Real Time Strategy (RTS) genre more or less died in the
           | mid 2000s with Age of Empires II, Warcraft 3, and Starcraft
           | being the ones that left a mark.
           | 
           | Since that time: Warcraft 3 died; Starcraft was supplanted by
           | Starcraft 2 and both eventually died outside of the lucrative
           | Korean pro scene. Age of Empires II also died until it saw a
           | resurrection in the pro scene in the early 2010s which has
           | lasted to today.
           | 
           | The RTS genre itself is still very much dead, seeing no new
           | games worthy of note to this day.
        
             | r0uv3n wrote:
             | There is the free and open source Beyond All Reason (BAR)
             | inspired by Total Annihilation, which is very polished and
             | a lot of fun. It's got features I've not seen anywhere else
             | yet (in terms of possibilities for commands and
             | customisation) and also has a growing competitive scene.
             | It's worth checking out
        
             | JSavageOne wrote:
             | Which is a damn shame because RTS games are my favorite
             | genre, with Age of Empires 2 and Warcraft 3 being my
             | favorite games of all time.
             | 
             | It's really a shame to me that the most popular multiplayer
             | games these days seem to be FPS games, or games where you
             | just control a single character. Don't get me wrong those
             | games can still be fun, but they entail a fraction of the
             | strategy as RTS games.
             | 
             | I hope one day we'll see a resurgence of the RTS genre.
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | 'Beyond All Reason' regularly ranks second place behind SC2
             | on Twitch.
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | > Since that time: Warcraft 3 died; Starcraft was
             | supplanted by Starcraft 2 and both eventually died outside
             | of the lucrative Korean pro scene.
             | 
             | SC2 still has a fairly healthy playerbase, and even War3
             | and BW still have some players.
             | 
             | > Age of Empires II also died until it saw a resurrection
             | in the pro scene in the early 2010s which has lasted to
             | today.
             | 
             | You think AoE2 is alive but SC2 is dead? SC2 has very
             | little support and will eventually be passed by AoE2 for
             | playercount, but I don't think it's there yet. Pretty sure
             | SC2 still has more players.
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | SC2 is certainly smaller than it was in its heyday, but I
               | don't see it going away anytime soon. I think going f2p
               | is largely what's keeping it alive. It's still a hard
               | game to learn, but I think it's got a fairly well thought
               | out on-ramp with custom maps, co-op and 4v4s as
               | relatively "safe" modes and a series of logical steps for
               | eventually getting comfortable with 1v1.
        
             | LelouBil wrote:
             | Northgard is pretty good and the devs are very active.
        
             | erfgh wrote:
             | Why do people want constantly new games otherwise they
             | think that something is dead? This is like saying
             | basketball is dead because basketball people only play
             | basketball and not something else.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Because in the time between Warcraft I (not the first RTS
               | but let's take it) and Starcraft, each new game was
               | _amazing_ compared to the previous. People who grew up in
               | that loved that; but we 've kind of leveled off, you
               | can't really make things as amazingly better than current
               | iterations graphically as the difference between WarCraft
               | 1 and even StarCraft.
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | > The RTS genre itself is still very much dead, seeing no
             | new games worthy of note to this day.
             | 
             | Stormgate, Tempest Rising and Sanctuary are ones that RTS
             | fans are looking forward to. A lot of people also like
             | Beyond All Reason (a recent TA-like fan game).
        
             | yenda wrote:
             | I loved empire earth II as well
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | > seeing no new games worthy of note to this day
             | 
             | I think Stormgate[0] will be interesting here, when it
             | comes out.
             | 
             | [0] https://playstormgate.com
        
             | hnlmorg wrote:
             | C&C is another hugely popular one. Though I was in the
             | minority of not enjoying Westwoods RTS so much. I much
             | preferred Warcraft and StarCraft. But my favourite was The
             | Settlers.
             | 
             | This was also an era when business simulation games (you
             | could argue as another "style" of RTS but not combat based)
             | were popular too. Like Transport Tycoon, Theme Park, etc.
             | From past conversations on here, it sounds like City
             | Builders are still popular.
        
               | baremetal wrote:
               | Capitalism 2 also, I played that extensively.
        
               | hermitdev wrote:
               | I picked up a copy of C&C red alert a year ago. Sadly,
               | it's unplayable on modern PCs. At least it was for me.
               | Too many issues, crashes and the game speed not being
               | changeable before game launch and by the time you can
               | change it in game, it's too late and you're basically
               | already way too behind to catch up. It's a shame because
               | it was one of my favorites from the era.
        
               | dhfs wrote:
               | There are open source engine reimplementations which use
               | the original assets to play the c&c games on modern
               | machines. See https://www.openra.net/
        
               | nerdix wrote:
               | Both the first C&C game and Red Alert were remastered in
               | 2020 as a part of the "Command & Conquer: Remastered
               | Collection".
               | 
               | That version should run on modern machines.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer_Remas
               | ter...
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | I feel Westwood's games were always more about the single
               | player experience. The maps were pretty well designed as
               | sort of puzzle boxes you needed to figure out. The
               | amazing soundtracks and cheesy FMVs were also very good
               | at building atmosphere. Multiplayer felt unbalanced in a
               | not very fun way.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Agreed, StarCraft and friends got a big multiplayer scene
               | that I was never into; I'm not a good enough player.
               | 
               | But C&C were fun to _play_ through, and felt accessible
               | to scrubs like me. (To be fair to Blizzard, StarCraft 2
               | is the ONLY Blizzard RTS I ever completed - or at least
               | the episodes I bought ; they did exceptionally well on
               | the difficulty scaling for that game.)
               | 
               |  _Competitive_ multiplayer was always meh for us, we
               | loved comp stomps, and I somewhat am sad that the AI was
               | so  "bad" that you never really could get a good balance
               | between "destroyed you instantly" and "easily
               | overwhelmed".
               | 
               | https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/04/the-
               | armageddon...
        
         | hot_gril wrote:
         | The even crazier thing is card or board games that are still
         | alive and modernized. Some games are timeless.
        
           | eru wrote:
           | Many of the best board games are less than twenty years old.
           | Cardboard based entertainment has made huge strides recently.
           | 
           | By and large, good boardgames are not so much timeless as
           | 'fairly new' instead.
           | 
           | There have been a few good games earlier, but it's really
           | instructive to have a look at the ranked list of boardgames
           | at https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame and check the
           | publication dates.
        
             | stOneskull wrote:
             | wow, i had no idea there were so many boardgames.. i looked
             | to see where my old favorite Talisman was and it's ranked
             | #1764! jeez..
        
               | eru wrote:
               | That's actually pretty high.
        
             | fbdab103 wrote:
             | One problem I have with the rankings here is they seem
             | really prone to grade inflation and band-wagoning. Even
             | more-so when the game is expensive.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The BGG rankings are a particular viewpoint into a
               | general take on board games; the way I look at it -
               | anything high ranked is going to be "good" even if I
               | don't particular like the play style, theme, or
               | execution. Many are "good but not for me".
               | 
               | The problem with the rankings is that some very playable
               | games are ranked low. It's a meme on BGG but CandyLand is
               | famously shit on:
               | https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5048/candy-land - but
               | it's a perfectly acceptable "game" for very young
               | children, and if you've ever _dealt_ with said children
               | you know that getting them to successfully complete a
               | CandyLand session without going backwards on the track,
               | randomly wandering off, taking multiple cards, etc is a
               | serious feat.
               | 
               | It's not a _great_ game but it 's certainly still
               | playable in the niche it occupies.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | Yeah, I've heard of very few of the top ones, and they
               | look like the super complex kind of games I don't play. I
               | did play Pandemic Legacy and didn't like it. Then I
               | cmd+F'd for Diplomacy, Catan, and chess on the top list,
               | didn't see them, and said nah.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The people who review board games are ... a special
               | bunch. Those games are very popular and well ranked, but
               | they're not considered "best of the best" by people who
               | "seriously play games".
               | 
               | One of the best usages of BGG is to find a game you like,
               | and use it to find games that are like that one, and see
               | what you want.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | I know how it is. Some board games are almost like
               | strategy video games with the amount of detail and
               | immersion. Usually those same board game groups play D&D
               | or something as well, like my housemates back in college.
               | I just never liked those. If I'm gonna play a serious
               | game, it's something simple with depth in play style,
               | like Diplomacy.
               | 
               | Recommender algos are cool and useful.
        
               | eru wrote:
               | Yes. And they are also just aggregates of what people
               | think. They aren't God given absolute quality judgements.
               | 
               | Yet, even with all the caveats, it's still remarkable how
               | much better boardgames have gotten.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | > They aren't God given absolute quality judgements.
               | 
               | This seems a bit of a high bar to make only one review
               | site have to clear.
        
         | spaceman_2020 wrote:
         | The crazy part is that some of the players who dominated the
         | multiplayer scene in 2000 are still playing...and dominating.
         | 
         | TheViper regularly streams his matches. Surreal watching them
         | cause I remember playing against him (and losing) 20+ years
         | ago.
        
           | egeozcan wrote:
           | Don't remember playing against Viper but DauT had nearly made
           | me smash my keyboard in a team game because I was sure he was
           | cheating hehehe (and I was a teenager with a giant ego).
        
           | rowanG077 wrote:
           | Wow! I looked him up and he was already a competitive player
           | at 10 years old? That's pretty insane.
        
             | spaceman_2020 wrote:
             | I must've been around 12 myself. This game has been a part
             | of my life since before puberty.
             | 
             | I ascribe part of my deep love for history to this game.
        
               | baremetal wrote:
               | I played the original Age of Empires when I was really
               | young, I liked it so much I built my first website ever
               | on geocities about that game.
               | 
               | I loved AoE 2 when it came out too. And yeah I loved the
               | history immersion
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Heroes III has something similar, with major mods being
         | developed along with entirely new "replacement" game engines.
        
       | s0ulphire wrote:
       | Love it! The older kids in the fam regularly revisit this game to
       | recreate the lan battles of old, would love adding these to shake
       | things up a bit :) post up a paypal donation link if you'd like
       | some $$ for your efforts!
        
       | instakill wrote:
       | Just here to comment that AOE2 is probably the best game ever
       | made.
        
         | dcist wrote:
         | I agree with this comment. I wish there was an effort to
         | improve the performance and fundamental capabilities of AOE2
         | specifically (bigger maps, more varied terrain, higher pop
         | count, ability of the game engine to use multi-core processors,
         | etc.). AOE2 really did almost everything right and it's a
         | timeless classic.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | omneity wrote:
       | Big AoE fan here. The idea is brilliant and I love the execution.
       | 
       | I wish the author did not put every screenshot in a gif, I'd have
       | preferred to be able to look at the results in a less stressful
       | way. 2 seconds to switch to another screenshot, that's way too
       | fast!
       | 
       | On a side note, it would be interesting to try to apply the same
       | technique to units and effects (explosions, fire, etc). I didn't
       | see a mention of it by the author so I wonder if there's a
       | technical limitation here that wasn't mentioned.
        
         | neilsonnnn wrote:
         | hey, author here, thanks for the note about the GIFs. If you go
         | to the website (https://engine.study/sprite-diffuser/) you can
         | select the themes from a dropdown to see each one.
         | 
         | Units are going to be difficult, villagers are something like
         | 10 pixels across - getting them to pose correctly will be hard.
         | However, there is someone doing something similar with the
         | original Mortal Kombat sprites who is having a lot of success -
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/13jllfh/qu...
        
           | omneity wrote:
           | I must have missed the link to the website. The preview demo
           | is pretty neat!
           | 
           | > Units are going to be difficult, villagers are something
           | like 10 pixels across
           | 
           | Could it possibly help to upscale units, apply reskinning,
           | and then downscale them back?
           | 
           | The Mortal Kombat WIP is super interesting, thank you for
           | linking to it! I'm wondering which techniques are used to
           | keep the rendering stable cross-frame.
        
           | rkuykendall-com wrote:
           | Unfortunately the website is not currently usable, it's on a
           | fixed loop.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | There's a 13 year old open issue on the Firefox bug tracker
         | that could address this by adding playback controls to animated
         | GIFs[1].
         | 
         | I remember this every once in a while because Dan's replies are
         | great.
         | 
         | [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=560084
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | Ah yes, classic bugzilla.
           | 
           | "Hey could we do <thing> that would make <other thing> so
           | much easier and solve <problem>?"
           | 
           | "Closed as wontfix."
        
             | tomstockmail wrote:
             | Ticket is open, so go ahead and implement to your desire.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | I get that it's open source and all that, but sometimes
               | one just feels like strolling down to Mozilla HQ and
               | saying "What exactly would you say you do here?" Like
               | people are being paid to work on this thing, they have
               | $400M in revenue. But yeah I'm still mostly in the
               | Chromium camp myself and couldn't care less.
        
             | contravariant wrote:
             | Could be worse, wouldn't be the first time some minor
             | change or bugfix breaks some power user feature and instead
             | of fixing it properly they just close it as wontfix.
             | 
             | Usually this pattern repeats a few times until all
             | workarounds are gone as well.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I have a stupid dirty trick for this (works in Safari) - click
         | and start dragging the image, but don't let go. It's like you
         | drag a particular "frame" out and can look at it.
        
           | keyle wrote:
           | 20 years on a mac and I'm still learning stuff, thank you!
        
             | oblak wrote:
             | Just FYI: that old trick is definitely not a mac or Safari
             | thing
        
               | iforgotpassword wrote:
               | I think Opera was the first to do that.
        
         | fbdab103 wrote:
         | Am I imagining things or once-upon-a-time did Firefox give you
         | the ability to advance GIFs frame by frame?
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Pressing Esc did stop the animation, but I'm not sure you
           | could step over it.
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | I thought this was a feature for a while because image
           | hosting sites like Imgur convert animated GIFs into videos
           | because the compression is better, and you can adjust the
           | playback. Some of them will even keep '.gif' in the URL
           | despite serving you a video instead.
        
             | causi wrote:
             | This is particularly infuriating when you're trying to use
             | google image search to find a gif to embed in an html frame
             | that doesn't accept videos and all you get are gifs that
             | turn out to be videos.
        
               | heavyset_go wrote:
               | Yup, and the titular GIPHY doesn't even embed GIFs.
        
           | qup wrote:
           | In the past you could freeze them and step through frames by
           | right-clicking the image, but I can't remember which browser
           | it was in. It was over a decade ago iirc.
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | I'd love to do that to create fighting games character sprites.
       | Combined with Mugen, it would make for a very fun experience and
       | the LLM could help on adding attacks and gameplay logic.
       | 
       | Where should I start to make this happen? Stable Diffusion
       | without customization is really bad at creating character
       | sprites.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | Wow that was a treat. The author makes everything seems so easy.
       | I fired up AUTOMATIC1111 recently and making good AI generated
       | art (or whatever you want to call it) is way harder than it
       | seems.
        
         | MattRix wrote:
         | It's really not that hard to make good looking stuff with these
         | AI image generators, you just need the right models. The reason
         | you struggled is because the basic stable diffusion model
         | creates really ugly stuff by default. Try using a model from
         | civit.ai and you'll get much better results... or for even
         | easier results, just use midjourney where literally everything
         | that comes out of it looks fantastic.
        
           | syntaxing wrote:
           | Is there anything that runs local? Any particular model you
           | like?
        
             | GaggiX wrote:
             | MattRix linked civitai, every model there can be run
             | locally, you just need to choose the one you prefer.
        
       | Imnimo wrote:
       | I remember back in the early 90s there was an expansion for
       | SimCity 2000 called the Urban Renewal Kit, which let you draw
       | your own building sprites to replace the ones in the base game.
       | It also came with a pre-made pack of futuristic buildings.
       | 
       | I was too artistically challenged to ever really make my own
       | pixel art buildings - the best I could achieve was drawing little
       | six-pixel cars driving up the spiral roof and into the reactor of
       | the alternate-art nuclear power plant. It would've been great to
       | be able to give style prompts and have the software churn out
       | appropriate sprites for each building type.
        
       | tekni5 wrote:
       | Kind of tried something similar in the game called Rust:
       | https://youtu.be/j674nbG4_t8
       | 
       | This is a style transfer via SD, Controlnet and EbSynth.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | pluijzer wrote:
       | I get an Invalid Certificate error when trying to visit the link.
       | The title seems enticing though.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Seems like it's a valid cert from GoDaddy, did you block them
         | as a root auth or something?
        
           | pluijzer wrote:
           | Thanks. It was a misconfiguration of my company laptop's VPN.
        
       | netsharc wrote:
       | The images of ruins at the end are interesting. Imagine an option
       | that after winning the game you can fast-forward time and watch
       | your glorious civilization decay into ruins and nothingness.
        
         | lachstar-x wrote:
         | Or you play the same map again and have to start in a different
         | spot, and you have the ruins of your last game on the map
        
       | Hitton wrote:
       | I wonder what is the legal aspect of this. Whether it would be
       | possible to use this to create alternative assets for a game
       | which would be unencumbered by copyright, for instance for Quake
       | 3 where code is open source but assets are proprietary.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I'm not sure about this method in particular, but there are
         | groups who push on that, I know you can find Doom with all the
         | copyrighted assets replaced.
         | 
         | It's surprisingly hard to make it look _good_ when that is
         | done, art direction is hard.
        
       | trh0awayman wrote:
       | The first example looks pretty unique for an art style. I'd love
       | to see this done on the fly, so that each building is unique
       | during game play.
       | 
       | Also, I think the buildings would look better if you give it some
       | context of the ground surrounding the buildings.
       | 
       | This certainly solves a lot of issues for tile-based games where
       | you have to handle at least 3 cases in both graphics +
       | programming (in a 2d, single-layer tile game, you need corner
       | pieces, middle pieces, and edge pieces). Think two houses built
       | next to each other in AoE - now they could mesh and form a
       | completely new style of row house, without any effort
        
       | dazhbog wrote:
       | AoE space civilization with a dash of neon lights... Sign me up!
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Looking at that one with columns gives me an idea: how about M.C.
       | Escher based buildings sprite pack?
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | I've thought of this not for AoE, but for Sim City 4. Currently
       | midjourney can produce art for buildings that could almost be
       | used directly in game, but stuff like shading and lighting needs
       | to be tweaked.
        
       | drekipus wrote:
       | That is sick, I'd love to play some wackier AOE environments, or
       | do "space station vs jumping castle" battles.
       | 
       | Units would be hard because there's a sprite for each direction
       | which you'll have to keep consistent, but it would be great to
       | see if it's possible to do, maybe as a sprite sheet
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Reminds me of the SimCity texture pack which made it look like
         | outer space (or maybe it was SC2000).
         | 
         | It did nothing but replace the graphics, but it blew my mind.
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | Funny you mention space stations, because the Genie engine that
         | powers the Age of Empires line of games was also used for Star
         | Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds.
         | 
         | Further reading:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Engine#Games_using_the_G...
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | I didn't know that! Just googled and was slightly
           | disappointed - that looks just like AoE with the sprites
           | swapped out, down to the same trees. Well. Still interesting
           | to know this happened!
        
             | hn92726819 wrote:
             | I've played this game and never played aoe2. As I
             | understand it, aoe2 has no aircraft while swgb has classic
             | star wars ships (x wing, y wing, tie fighter, etc).
             | 
             | If you like star wars and aoe2, I'd recommend it. Goes on
             | sale for like 2 bucks on gog
        
               | arrow7000 wrote:
               | aoe2 takes place in the middle ages so indeed has no
               | aircraft
        
           | alternatetwo wrote:
           | And even more interesting, before Age of Empires was Age of
           | Empires, but was called "Tribe", there used to be a space age
           | version developed alongside called "Stratos". Here are some
           | demo/concept screenshots: http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-
           | bin/forums/display.cgi?action...
           | 
           | I swear, there used to be more, but I keep misplacing them.
           | Maybe they are in an album on there which I can't find.
           | 
           | The concept art was by Ralph McQuarrie, who notably did the
           | concept art for Star Wars.
           | 
           | A very, very old exe version called "ptribe" still has some
           | STRATOS function names, and a cmdline argument seeminly
           | specifying which game is being started.
        
             | alternatetwo wrote:
             | I am just blind. They were linked in that post all along: h
             | ttp://aoe.heavengames.com/aoegallery/?occur=1&lang=en&cover
             | ...
        
       | dave_sullivan wrote:
       | Really good post and great example of how someone can incorporate
       | these tools into their work. Maybe there will be a new resurgence
       | of proc gen games that finally manage to get past the same-ness
       | problem with more diverse, interesting generated environments.
        
       | yreg wrote:
       | Using ControlNet with a depth map is very useful here, since it
       | makes the modded building similar to the original exactly in the
       | way the users identify it.
       | 
       | It reminds me of skins in a game like Overwatch - it's the shape
       | that's the most important to make you able to identify a hero in
       | split second, even if it's wearing a skin you have never seen
       | before.
        
       | lvl102 wrote:
       | Do Simcity 4 next. Heck you can train it on actual buildings off
       | of Google Maps or others like it.
        
       | Simon321 wrote:
       | I actually did this before the 7th of may:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/13axnoa/tr...
       | 
       | Maybe OP was inspired? Seems like a big coincidence otherwise.
       | Just wish he would've credited me.
       | 
       | Happy to see other people experimenting with this also though. It
       | will be great for indie game development.
        
       | j7ake wrote:
       | A novel twist to a timeless classic! Bravo
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-22 23:02 UTC)