[HN Gopher] Review: Energy and Civilization, by Vaclav Smil
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Review: Energy and Civilization, by Vaclav Smil
Author : tim_sw
Score : 37 points
Date : 2023-05-20 16:31 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thepsmiths.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thepsmiths.com)
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| Inadvertantly makes a good argument for renewables, but then
| links to an article on geothermal that disses wind and solar,
| despite them fitting neatly into his theory.
| philipkglass wrote:
| I upvoted this review because I thought that Smil's book was
| quite good as a _history_ and I was only half way through
| reading the review. The second half of the review takes a
| surprising turn toward "WTF Happened in 1971" and excoriating
| energy efficiency.
| sanderjd wrote:
| Yeah the second half is really weird. It seems to suddenly
| take the proposition "more energy is good" and conclude that
| "energy inefficiency is good" follows. Both energy abundance
| _and_ efficiency are good; efficiency is a _multiplier_ of
| the positive effects of increased abundance. The detachment
| of energy use per capita from gdp per capita after the 70s is
| a _good_ thing. That gap is pure upside, where each unit
| increase of energy is strictly more valuable than it would
| otherwise have been.
|
| In general, I find this false dichotomy between efficiency
| and abundance so maddening. Why not both??
| gumballindie wrote:
| Star generates virtually unlimited energy. Emits said energy.
| Earth receives said energy. Capture it. Easy.
| spurgu wrote:
| Yeah let's just keep growing.
|
| https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/
| gumballindie wrote:
| > If we're dreaming big, let's forget the wimpy solar energy
| constraints and adopt fusion. The abundance of deuterium in
| ordinary water would allow us to have a seemingly
| inexhaustible source of energy right here on Earth. We won't
| go into a detailed analysis of this path, because we don't
| have to. The merciless growth illustrated above means that in
| 1400 years from now, any source of energy we harness would
| have to outshine the sun.
|
| Let's worry about that in 1400 years. _If_ we make it that
| far. As things stand we may not have to worry about it at all
| because we wont.
| progrus wrote:
| Some people believe they have inherited the stars, that God
| is behind all things, and that we're not going to just grow
| too fast like a cancer and then kill the planet.
|
| I'm one of those people, so this argument doesn't work for
| me. There indeed appears to be a slowing of global population
| growth and an abundance of headroom to grow further.
| gumballindie wrote:
| I also believe we have inherited the stars. Equally i
| believe we should grow unlimited.
|
| Among said stars. I think earth should become a green
| utopia but humanity should colonise space starting with our
| own solar system.
|
| I think we should expand everywhere we can. But keep home
| safe and clean.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| Oh, like exporting your trash.
| progrus wrote:
| Are you worried aliens will get mad at us, or something
| like that?
|
| Then why don't they say so?
| gumballindie wrote:
| No, i think elon musk should never be allowed in space.
|
| We can keep both space and home clean. But as a species
| we should grow into space. You know, there's virtually
| endless ... space in space.
| progrus wrote:
| Agreed. We have been given a primary job as caretakers of
| our neighbors, and our environment.
| arkwin wrote:
| It's a dense book, but I enjoyed it a lot. His newest book How
| the World Really Works: A Scientist's Guide to Our Past, Present
| and Future is also really good!
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/56587388
| jnsaff2 wrote:
| I can recommend Smil's books quite easily.
|
| There are a lot of renewable/green energy advocates that don't
| like him and try to paint him in a bad light.
|
| The reason mainly is that Smil takes a look at energy transitions
| and tells you: it's hard. He just analyzes in a very methodical
| way and paints the picture that is just grim because of the
| numbers and momentous challenge.
|
| Smil himself is very much pro green energy, pro rational energy
| use and all the jazz. He just is not that optimistic that this is
| going to be easy or even see how the global warming problem is
| solvable.
|
| It's a bit sad that some green energy advocates are missing the
| whole point of Smil and attack him personally even tho he is in
| fact one of the most useful allies.
|
| If you want to have his views/analysis in an hour long youtube
| video instead of the (well worthy of a read) stack of books he
| has written then there is this lecture [0].
|
| [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szikg74kgnM
|
| Edit: I have really crappy internet so I believe I actually meant
| this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJxmlNyu4sE
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| Smil is effectively a degrowther because he doesn't believe
| renewables, EVs etc. will work well enough.
|
| Quote:
|
| > Vaclav Smil: 'Growth must end. Our economist friends don't
| seem to realise that'
|
| Which is at least logically consistent, but bad timing as most
| of his boosters are currently trying to pivot from "climate
| change isn't real" to "bloody hippies are holding back rapid
| rollout of renewables with their environmental regulations" and
| hoping no one notices the contradiction and their history of
| fossil fuel apologism.
| progrus wrote:
| Skimmed, and I can tell I'm going to like this one a lot.
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