[HN Gopher] Multiple lines of evidence suggest persistence of th...
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       Multiple lines of evidence suggest persistence of the ivory-billed
       woodpecker
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2023-05-19 19:09 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (onlinelibrary.wiley.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (onlinelibrary.wiley.com)
        
       | mickhead23 wrote:
       | Most people agree the evidence isn't compelling at all. Birding
       | takes some amount of discipline because you can be susceptible to
       | wishful thinking and 'see what you want to see.' Sadly, this
       | species vanished along with its preferred habitat.
        
       | jonah wrote:
       | Here's the one good historical recording that is widely available
       | (From 1935)
       | 
       | https://academy.allaboutbirds.org/peterson-field-guide-to-bi...
       | 
       | If you have any interest in birds or bioacustics or ML or such
       | not, learning to id birds by sound either by ear or via ML is
       | pretty neat.
       | 
       | ID birds by spectrograph http://earbirding.com/blog/book
       | https://earbirding.com/blog/specs
       | 
       | Merlin ML based bird ID app https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/ by
       | Cornell Lab of Ornithology https://www.birds.cornell.edu/
        
       | nemo wrote:
       | It's sad that they're extinct, but I think it's really likely
       | they are. This paper reads like desperate cryptozoologists more
       | than serious scientists.
       | 
       | >Although these observations lack photographic verification...
       | 
       | >I understand that my sighting is awful, in so far as I saw none
       | of what we consider classic field marks of an Ivorybill, and I
       | had no opportunity to observe the bird for any length of time.
       | However, I am also confident in identifying this bird as an
       | Ivory-billed Woodpecker.
       | 
       | If anything the fact that there's no meaningful evidence provided
       | that's unambiguous makes a more compelling case that there's
       | nothing there to find. The imagined calls can't be meaningfully
       | distinguished from a pileated without further evidence, and the
       | "double-tap" is not unambiguous evidence either. The videos are
       | amazingly bad with nothing in them couldn't be a pileated that I
       | saw. The vast habitats they once depended on are gone. Not a
       | single feather from which DNA evidence could be tested nor any
       | clear photo. We're firmly in cryptozoology territory with this
       | paper, as always. More ivory-billed truther material.
        
       | nly wrote:
       | So with all that footage, did they see one or not?
       | 
       | Surely evidence becomes fast at some point.
        
         | ftxbro wrote:
         | > "Skilled, reliable observers associated with our team, all
         | abundantly familiar with Pileated Woodpecker, Red-headed
         | Woodpecker (Melanerpes erythrocephalus), and other birds of the
         | area, reported 16 visual observations deemed by the observer to
         | be probable Ivory-billed Woodpeckers. Seven of these were of
         | high enough quality that the observer considered the sighting
         | to be definite (See Appendix 1). Although these observations
         | lack photographic verification, many are supported by field
         | drawings."
         | 
         | So they are pretty sure they saw some 'the observer considered
         | the sighting to be definite' but they don't have any
         | photographs 'observations lack photographic verification'.
        
           | jonah wrote:
           | The audio recordings they captured are pretty compelling to
           | me as someone with a bit of interest in and experience with
           | id-ing birds by sound.
        
           | jonah wrote:
           | They do have photos - read the paper - but they're not high-
           | quality enough to positively identify the woodpecker alone.
        
       | rozab wrote:
       | The preprint of this paper spawned this r/hobbydrama post a while
       | back. I think the discussion in the thread is sensible
       | 
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/zqvler/birding_...
       | 
       | I think this subreddit is fantastic, getting the scoop on a topic
       | from someone _within_ a niche community just gets you way more
       | context than any news article. Basically, ivory billed
       | woodpeckers are a meme in birding because the evidence for their
       | continued existence is so laughably bad. News outlets are still
       | buying it.
        
       | readthenotes1 wrote:
       | Maybe they should be in the "elusive" category?
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | The interesting part is that if they declare them as extinct,
       | then they are no longer protected. No big deal of it's really
       | extinct, but maybe problematic if they aren't.
        
       | bwestergard wrote:
       | Sibley's argument - that we would expect any true sighting to be
       | quickly confirmed in follow up visits - is extremely compelling.
       | Follow up visits have never produced clear photographs.
        
         | jonah wrote:
         | I've very recently become involved with monitoring a threatened
         | bird species on the West coast. After about a dozen visits to
         | areas where they have been positively identified in the past
         | few years and using active measures to attract and detect them,
         | I finally saw one for the first time last night. At two sites
         | where they have been positively visually identified during
         | visits _this season_ , the detection is below 50%. i.e. they
         | are detected during fewer than half the site visits.
         | 
         | All that to say that "quickly confirm[ing] in follow up visits"
         | isn't as easy or guaranteed as one might assume - especially
         | with a bird that seems to have a large range, sparse-if-any
         | population, and wary nature.
        
           | djtriptych wrote:
           | Add in that it's theorized they explicitly seek out areas
           | that are hard for humans to get to.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-20 23:01 UTC)