[HN Gopher] Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?
___________________________________________________________________
Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?
Author : explosion-s
Score : 60 points
Date : 2023-05-19 16:18 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| mym1990 wrote:
| A drug that promotes weight loss, lessens the desire to smoke,
| drink, etc...sounds too good to be true?
|
| From what I have heard, all of these issues come back as soon as
| someone comes off the drug. So either a person is committing to a
| lifetime of being dependent on this drug, or a person is
| committing to some period of time of ideal living, followed by a
| possible time of depression after reverting to the status quo.
| justinbaker84 wrote:
| This is exactly what happened to me. The clinic I went to
| recommended starting out with 1/10 the normal dose for the
| first month to make sure I would tolerate it. Then we would
| move up each month.
|
| It worked so well I didn't want to move up so for month 2 I
| stuck with 1/10th the amount. During that month the effects
| wore off so I had to take more to get the same impact. I chose
| to just quit.
|
| 2 months after quiting I am 7 pounds fatter than I was when I
| started with the drug. I suspect that most people will need to
| keep taking more and more of it to get the same benefits they
| got from the recommended dose. I am really concerned this is
| going to lead to a bigger health crises than the one it
| purported to solve.
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| > I am really concerned this is going to lead to a bigger
| health crises than the one it purported to solve.
|
| A lot of diabetics taking it to regulate blood sugar
| (particular the feedback loop with insulin and hunger) have
| said it's changed their life... but for people who are merely
| overweight I think the benefits may not always be worth the
| side effects. IMO the correlation between weight and health
| is not as strong as people often assume.
|
| Anecdotal, but if you looked at me and my partner, you'd
| probably assume I was the "healthier" one based on our
| respective body types. But they're strong, fit, and rarely
| get sick (knock on wood); meanwhile I'm a lifelong wimp with
| a host of autoimmune issues. I outsource all of the heavy
| lifting to them, literally--if the trash is too heavy for me
| to take to the dumpster, they get to do it instead :P
|
| So to your point about health crises, yeah. It seems foolish
| to put my partner on a weight loss drug just so they could
| "look" healthier while nursing a bunch of unpleasant side
| effects that would make them far sicker than they were
| before.
| HDThoreaun wrote:
| Obesity is the number one cause of heart disease, which is
| the number one killer in this country. No, its health
| effects are not being overstated.
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| Sure, but that doesn't mean everyone who's overweight has
| high blood pressure and therefore should go on "shit your
| brains out" medication.
|
| EDIT: Also, to my previous anecdote, despite being the
| skinny one compared to my partner, I actually _do_ have
| several heart problems! (Thank you inflammatory
| diseases.) But you wouldn 't guess that by looking at me,
| because weight is not a 1:1 indicator of health.
| mym1990 wrote:
| I think weight is the wrong thing to target for gauging
| health, but it is the thing that is in everyone's face and
| easy to see. Undernourishment is just a big of a problem as
| over-nourishment. Targeting the four horsemen(t2 diabetes,
| Alzheimer's, heart disease, cancer) is a better use of time
| and money, but they are relatively much harder to identify
| early.
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| > Undernourishment is just a big of a problem as over-
| nourishment.
|
| Having been recently diagnosed with Crohn's I 100% agree.
| Getting skinnier during a bad flare makes people _think_
| I 'm in better health, because I look a certain way that
| aligns with their expectations, but it really just means
| my gut isn't absorbing any nutrients. Turns out being at
| my lowest weight in years was a Very Bad Thing and not a
| sign I was doing anything right.
|
| Which, again, is an interesting juxtaposition with my
| partner who weighs more than me but whose body functions
| correctly and whose biomarkers come back normal, unlike
| mine.
| karaterobot wrote:
| For a lot of people, it's kind of a choice of which substance
| you are going to be dependent on. It's all expensive and sad,
| but between Ozempic and cigarettes, alcohol, or overeating,
| Ozempic has got to be healthier, and quite possibly cheaper in
| the long run.
| mym1990 wrote:
| Healthier in what sense? There is little knowledge of long
| term side effects and it isn't even approved for weight loss,
| it is specifically for people with diabetes.
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| Semaglutide, the active ingredient in Ozempic, is
| absolutely approved in the US for weight loss. Ozempic is
| the trade name for the diabetes medication, Wegovy is the
| trade name for the weight loss medication. They are the
| exact same medication, in the same formulation.
| mym1990 wrote:
| Ah, good to know!
| justinbaker84 wrote:
| I took it and started out with a small dose. The impact of
| that dose wore off eventually and the plan at my clinic was
| to raise it over time.
|
| I am concerned that maybe there isn't a dose where you can
| stop taking more and keep the results. I am worried that
| everybody will need to keep taking more as they build up more
| tolerance to it. The study that showed how effective the drug
| is was 60 weeks long.
|
| That is a long time, but it doesn't show what happens if
| somebody plans on staying on the drug for years.
| nancyhn wrote:
| Is a drug or drug-like-food (ie, sugar) dependency really the
| only option?
| oniony wrote:
| No, there's also badmington.
| deegles wrote:
| What do you suggest otherwise? Clearly whatever we're doing
| now has led us to this point.
| karaterobot wrote:
| Versus, like, "just suck it up"? No, but empirically that
| strategy has had poor results across the wider population.
| It seems like it would work, but usually doesn't. At some
| point people look for more effective strategies.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| It's that, or dropping out of modern life, as far as I can
| tell.
|
| _Everyone 's_ on something and/or coping in unhealthy
| ways.
| acjohnson55 wrote:
| Most research indicates "yes", conditioned on the consensus
| of what comprises the modern lifestyle.
|
| I've been trying to understand what changed to create the
| obesity epidemic. Many things contribute, but it's hard to
| identify the smoking gun. My understanding is that one
| major lever seems to be the advent of snacks,
| refrigeration, and microwaves. Drastically reduced food
| prep overhead has radically alerted eating patterns.
| mym1990 wrote:
| It seems pretty obvious that the massive injection of
| sugar in the 60s and 70s into diets paved the way for
| pretty much everything else that followed(snacks, fast
| food, convenient food, etc). I guess we can all ignore
| that diabetes is driven by insulin resistance and the
| body's inability to process glucose, which is
| conveniently also the predominant thing in our food
| today, because we would rather look the other way and
| continue living in a fairy tale...that is until we are
| disease ridden in our 40s, at which point we can live out
| the rest of our lives on meds and in the hospital.
| thomascgalvin wrote:
| > A drug that promotes weight loss, lessens the desire to
| smoke, drink, etc...sounds too good to be true?
|
| It does sound too good to be true. However, it's possible that
| the drug is working on all of these through the same mechanism:
| by altering the brain's reward system.
|
| If that's true, the drug doesn't make you not want to eat, it
| makes you not want _stuff_ , in general. That could potentially
| suppress a wide array of addictive behaviors. I also wonder if
| that suppression might look a lot like clinical depression,
| though.
| 015UUZn8aEvW wrote:
| >From what I have heard, all of these issues come back as soon
| as someone comes off the drug. So either a person is committing
| to a lifetime of being dependent on this drug, or a person is
| committing to some period of time of ideal living, followed by
| a possible time of depression after reverting to the status
| quo.
|
| This is true of every weight loss intervention: Weight
| Watchers, low-carb, keto, Whole 30, etc. Once people stop
| complying with them, they gain the weight back.
|
| Most people don't realize how dismal the stats on long-term
| weight loss are. Almost no one maintains a substantial amount
| of weight loss for many years by following "just eat healthy
| and exercise" advice. The only intervention that does reliably
| work is bariatric surgery. The jury is still out on the new GLP
| drugs.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| If something affects so many basic functions of the body, the
| side effects must be intense as well
| trasz4 wrote:
| >From what I have heard, all of these issues come back as soon
| as someone comes off the drug
|
| Same as with drugs for hypertension, depression, hyperglycemia
| and many, many others. Not every drug is supposed to somehow
| permanently cure you.
| aplusbi wrote:
| A lot of addiction is caused by social issues or mental health
| issues, but it's really hard to deal with those issues when
| someone is also dealing with the effects of addiction. A drug
| like this could provide an opportunity to fix the underlying
| issues causing addiction in the first place.
|
| And for some people they will have to take this for life, which
| isn't so different from many other medications.
| jameshart wrote:
| > A drug that promotes weight loss, lessens the desire to
| smoke, drink, etc...sounds too good to be true?
|
| What other desires does it lessen? Does it suppress every
| hedonistic impulse? What does it do to creativity? Impulsivity?
| Does it make you more susceptible to or resistant to
| persuasion? Feels like reporting 'oh it has these other
| unintended psychological/behavioral responses. Neat!' is
| ignoring a whole can of worms that that opens.
| mym1990 wrote:
| I think the body of work around what this drug does outside
| of its impact on patients with diabetes is pretty limited,
| which is what is scary about everyone jumping on this one.
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| I'm not sure why "it stops working when you stop taking it" is
| used as an argument against these new peptides. This is the way
| almost every medication we encounter works.
|
| Tylenol might get rid of your headache, but that headache can
| come back tomorrow. Stop taking birth control and you might get
| pregnant. Stop taking Claritin and your allergies return. Stop
| taking insulin, and, as with these new peptides, you lose
| control over your blood sugar. Stop taking Adderall, and not
| only will your ADHD symptoms come back, you'll also experience
| withdrawal.
|
| Almost no medications are "one and done", and I'm not sure why
| Ozempic or Mounjaro are being held to needing to be a cure when
| it's clear that they're effective, repeatable treatments for
| blood sugar control and (likely related) weight gain.
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| (If the answer is "because you'll learn to eat less or eat in
| a more healthy fashion", it may well be that the metabolic
| issues that are creating heightened blood sugar or appetite
| issues _may not be able to be resolved by diet alone_ in
| those who respond well to these peptides.)
| mym1990 wrote:
| I am not holding Ozempic to needing to be the cure for
| anything. My point is that people without diabetes are
| looking to this drug for weight loss, at which point they
| create a dangerous dependency, with no hard evidence that
| their actual health improves. This is opposed to coming up
| with long term solutions that involve re-evaluating daily
| decisions that lead to some of these diseases in the first
| place. If Ozempic is a good treatment for blood sugar
| control, which could be a good factor to consider in weight
| fluctuation, maybe reduce the amount of sugar one eats?
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| Is it _really_ a _dangerous dependency_? There 's been no
| evidence of anything happening once individuals go off of
| semaglutide or tirzepatide other than the tendency of
| gaining weight to the original levels and/or blood sugar
| readings returning to the pre-medication levels. This is
| the most common outcome anyone has trying literally any
| calorie-reducing diet, medication or not. There's no
| evidence that people are ending up _worse_ for having been
| on the medication, except for some who experience gastro
| effects early on and can simply quit.
|
| Also, yes, you can absolutely advocate for a low-carb/low-
| sugar diet for those with poor blood sugar control. The
| issue there is that virtually every medical professional
| has advocated for similar diets for diabetics or those with
| blood sugar control issues for centuries, or even millennia
| - there is evidence of recommended diets for those with
| diabetes since BCE. This does not mean that those diets are
| easy or pleasant to follow, whereas all evidence indicates
| that common issues with appetite and energy on a limited
| calorie or low-carb diet are less prevalent with these new
| peptides than those trying to go it alone.
| mym1990 wrote:
| I don't necessarily mean dangerous in the health aspect,
| although long term affects of these drugs are not know
| yet...I mean the dependency on needed the drug to keep a
| certain lifestyle, and then having an "oh shit" moment
| when you're in a place that you can't access it, whether
| that be traveling or the supply of it becomes scarce, or
| it gets banned, etc
| standardUser wrote:
| The first days, weeks and months are often the hardest time
| when quitting a substance. If this drug helps a smoker not
| smoke for 3 months, by that time the nicotine addiction has
| weakened considerably. They've gotten past the hardest part. I
| see no downside to that.
|
| Similarly, if a person loses 30 pounds on this drug, then stops
| using the drug and reverts to normal habits, it will take a
| while to regain those 30 pounds. And the long term shift of
| maintaining the new body weight doesn't require any radical
| changes (unlike losing 30 pounds, which does require sustained
| radical changes).
| justinbaker84 wrote:
| That is not what happened to me. I took it for 2 months and
| then I wanted to get off. I did not go back to normal.
| Mentally I felt like I needed more food and more junk food
| than I ever did before using the drug.
|
| My hypothesis is that it supressed my body's natural
| production of whatever chemical in my brain helps me not go
| overboard with food. With that supressed by the drug I had an
| uncontrollable desire for food and currently I am fatter than
| I was before taking the drug in the first place.
| 1123581321 wrote:
| An interaction with leptin? Or are you just feeling hungry
| after the side effects wore off?
|
| You also said it stopped working while you were taking it
| in another post; are you just talking about satiety or one
| of the other effects like insulin production or glucagon
| release? Are you diabetic or just overweight?
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| This same thing happened to me when I quit smoking without
| assistance from a drug.
| mym1990 wrote:
| This is what I thought as well, that the habits that drive
| some of these activities would be dramatically weakened, but
| it looks like the body is not actually re-aligning to a new
| homeostatis level, so when a person gets off the drug, the
| body is trying to get back to the old level. I don't think it
| all comes back to habits, often your body is working really
| hard against you to get back a level it feels is
| right(whether that level is 'healthy' or not).
| raducu wrote:
| > The first days, weeks and months are often the hardest time
| when quitting a substance. If this drug helps a smoker not
| smoke for 3 months, by that time the nicotine addiction has
| weakened considerably.
|
| I love(d) nicotine and it was the only substance that I ever
| was addicted to. I tried dozens of times to quit and the only
| thing that helped was getting treatment for my ADHD. Quitting
| nicotine was easy for me on methylphenidate. I only tried
| combining them and nearly went to the ER, so I quickly learnt
| that I can't take them both. But when I'm on methylphenidate
| I just don't crave nicotine that much. It took 2-3 years to
| completely not get any nicotine cravings at all.
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| Wasn't this the plot of the Firefly movie? It didn't work out
| well for them.
| pixl97 wrote:
| I mean the opposite where we're fattening up ourselves like
| lambs for the slaughter isn't working out great either. We've
| had recent downward trend in longevity.
| myshpa wrote:
| Psilocybin too.
| rektide wrote:
| I'm surprised Ozempic gets all the press. Supposedly Mounjaro is
| all that and more.
|
| The wonderful Paul Ford has the best writeup I've seen that
| discusses these more meta levels, the post-human implications of
| a drug we can genuinely widescalely reprogram ourselves with.
| Paul's so great. https://www.wired.com/story/new-drug-switched-
| off-appetite-m... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34660232
| HDThoreaun wrote:
| Ozempic has been around longer and there were a bunch of
| celebrities taking it and talking about it on twitter so I
| think it has more cultural cachet. Most people probably don't
| know about mounjaro, I don't even think it's approved for
| weight loss yet.
| kristofferR wrote:
| Massive text: "People taking Mounjaro lost up to 25 LBS"
|
| Small text underneath: "Mounjaro is not a weight loss drug."
|
| Man, the US pharma industry/marketing is so weird.
|
| https://www.mounjaro.com/#:~:text=mounjaro%20is%20not%20a%20...
| .
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| Mounjaro is not yet approved for weight loss in the US even
| though there is strong evidence that it will be, and there's
| little question that there has generally been weight loss in
| those taking it for diabetes.
|
| Recent studies have very clearly shown it's effective for
| weight loss even in those without diabetes, but there's a lag
| as the FDA reviews those studies. Until then, Lilly simply
| can't advertise it as a treatment for obesity.
| shrimp_emoji wrote:
| My favorite Linux distro; it's basically a user-friendly Arch
| with goodies like a GUI kernel switcher thrown in.
| Avshalom wrote:
| "Semaglutide does not dull all pleasure, people taking the drug
| for weight loss told me. They could still enjoy a few bites of
| food or revel in finding the perfect dress; they just no longer
| went overboard. Anhedonia, or a general diminished ability to
| experience pleasure, also hasn't shown up in cohorts of people
| who take the drug for diabetes, says Elisabet Jerlhag Holm, an
| addiction researcher at the University of Gothenburg."
|
| So it doesn't dull _all_ pleasure just _almost all_ so it 's not
| _technically_ anhedonia...
|
| I dunno, still seem pretty fucking bleak to me.
| contravariant wrote:
| I'm not sure it is pleasure driving people to go overboard. I'm
| pretty sure it is dissatisfaction that is driving excess. In
| which case a drug that means you're more easily satisfied is
| far from bleak.
|
| If anything the _opposite_ is far more bleak. Imagine if there
| was a drug that meant you 're less easily satisfied, who on
| earth would want that?
| kevviiinn wrote:
| Our experience exists on a series of spectrums, some people
| experience pleasure _way too intensely_ and it actually causes
| problems which is why this might be a good thing
|
| Obviously there are people who like the pleasure given to them
| by food a bit too much and they consistently overindulge, it
| can be that way for many things as well. I'm not saying that
| the cause is always related but for many it may be
| Taywee wrote:
| Addiction is often extremely distressing. Dulled pleasure can
| be far better than drinking yourself into a stupor every single
| night.
| lumb63 wrote:
| I'm glad people are enjoying Ozempic. My experience from seeing a
| family member on it, is I would not touch it if I were a
| 500-pound alcoholic smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. That's
| an exaggeration since it probably outweighs the health issues
| there, but only slightly.
|
| The person I know taking Ozempic has only lost weight (35 lbs)
| due to the fact that eating now makes her sick. She has been
| sapped of all energy and has developed issues with her bladder,
| circulatory system, joints, thyroid, and digestive system since
| starting Ozempic. I'm not saying it's due to Ozempic, but I am
| saying all these issues have cropped up in the few months since
| she started taking it, and she never had any chronic health
| issues prior. At least she lost some weight, I guess.
| ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
| Same experience here, gallstone attacks
| shrimp_emoji wrote:
| You can get those from rapid weight loss, I thought. Maybe
| it's working TOO well if that's the case.
| MandieD wrote:
| Your relative's sad story reminds me of a short story I read a
| few years ago about a miracle pill that leaves about 90% of its
| takers perfectly slim and able to stay that way eating
| anything, after a few truly disgusting initial days of
| elimination, but kills the other 10% gruesomely.
|
| Because it's so wonderfully effective for the majority, there
| ends up being a ton of social and economic pressure for anyone
| even slightly overweight to take it, despite said 10% risk of
| death.
|
| (Edited to add):
|
| "The Pill," by Meg Elison
|
| https://escapepod.org/2022/11/03/escape-pod-861-the-pill-par...
|
| https://escapepod.org/2022/11/10/escape-pod-862-the-pill-par...
| ex3ndr wrote:
| Super weird since once you get thyroid problems, you have to
| drop this medication.
| burnte wrote:
| I take it, and when I started I got violently nauseous and had
| GI issues. I wasn't informed I needed to slowly ramp up.
|
| I still have pretty big appetite suppression, and only minimal
| nausea sometimes if I eat too much, but what it's done to my
| blood glucose is AMAZING. And I lost some weight when I started
| which was a great bonus. It can be hard to start but it's truly
| worth it, just adjust the dose. I take 0.5mg as I can't handle
| the larger 1.0mg dose.
| kristofferR wrote:
| While others have none or barely any side effects, it is a drug
| after all.
|
| For those people who tolerate the drug well, it can be
| revolutionary in their lives, but it's unfortunately not a good
| fit for everyone.
|
| I hope your family member gets better soon.
| ortusdux wrote:
| >>due to the fact that eating now makes her sick.
|
| Reminds me of the first FDA approved weight loss drug, Alli,
| that basically just gastrointestinally punishes you if you eat
| more than a few grams of fat.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlistat#Side_effects
| vrc wrote:
| Never trust a fart on orlistat. The horror stories I've read
| of people soiling themselves after eating seemingly normal
| meals is nuts. On par with Olestra/Haribo sugar-free stories.
| Also it makes absorbing fat soluble vitamins a huge issue.
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| > The manual for Alli makes it clear that orlistat treatment
| involves aversion therapy, encouraging the user to associate
| eating fat with unpleasant treatment effects.
|
| Christ. This is like Crohn's disease in pill form. One too
| many teaspoons of olive oil and you're in for an unpleasant
| evening...
| ortusdux wrote:
| I remember grabbing a pamphlet when it was new and reading
| their recommendation to wear dark colored pants and bring a
| change of clothes to work.
| op00to wrote:
| If shitting your pants in the break room is what gets
| people who can't control their weight any other way to
| get to a healthy level, I think that's worth it.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I want to frame this comment as an example of (the
| generalized form of) Poe's law.
| znpy wrote:
| Jesus Christ on a bike, that's beyond dystopian, that's
| completely f---ked up.
|
| Does the fda allow that?
| crakenzak wrote:
| Now if only it didn't cost so damn much every month even under
| insurance =(
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Going to be huge when it goes off patent off exclusivity. I'd
| also expect you'll be able to get it when it's made in
| jurisdictions that will ignore the patent. Up to you to get it
| from those places, either via mail or travel runs.
| tboyd47 wrote:
| They will find some way to prevent people from acquiring it
| and promote some other in-patent drug.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Lots of ways around jurisdictional regs. Consider how many
| people live near a national border, or have access to the
| postal service.
|
| https://www.usnews.com/news/best-
| states/articles/2018-11-01/...
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7523158/
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/07/health/fda-drug-shipments-
| khn...
|
| https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/12/14/state
| s...
|
| Also, I expect CRISPR or gene therapy to be the long game
| wrt this and updating the body's GLP-1 regulation, versus
| maintenance doses of a pharma product. This is a shim.
|
| https://benmay.uchicago.edu/crispr-gene-therapy
|
| https://www.creative-biogene.com/crispr-
| cas9/solution/glp1r-...
| HDThoreaun wrote:
| It is not possible to stop people from getting mail order
| pills from China. Especially with the abortion restrictions
| the market already is pretty large and it will be easy for
| them to throw these drugs in too.
| trasz4 wrote:
| We used to believe it was not possible to stop people
| from getting their funny movie clips from China.
| pseudo0 wrote:
| The solution to that was a $10 per month subscription via
| Netflix and clips for free on YouTube. Meanwhile Ozempic
| is around $1,000 for a month's supply. That is a margin
| on par with illegal hard drugs, which already have a
| smuggling supply chain from China to North America (eg.
| Fentanyl and variants).
| justinbaker84 wrote:
| A lot of clinics are administering the generic form and it is
| still very expensive.
| BizarroLand wrote:
| You can buy it as a "research chemical" and save money, but
| then the potential consequences of diy medicine and all that
| that entails are all on you.
|
| Hopefully the price will come down more as it becomes more
| prevalent or as generics become available.
| rektide wrote:
| I'm not that afraid of swallowing random chemicals but self
| injecting is a bit hardcore for me.
| EthicalSimilar wrote:
| FWIW, SubQ injections are pretty much completely
| unnoticeable in terms of pain / feeling at all. It's more
| the mental barrier of doing it to yourself but once you've
| done it for the first time you soon realise it's fine.
| rektide wrote:
| The actual doing it seems wild/absurd, but I don't think
| that would hold me back.
|
| This is ignorant/uniformed, but, taking research chemical
| by ingestion feels like I have some natural barriers
| still. Where-as I feel like there's a much more raw
| exposure to risk with injection. Also there's dumb risks
| like infection, if I don't attend well enough to
| injections.
|
| In spite of these protests, I think you are probably much
| closer to the truth here. Thanks for writing. These
| reactions I have are, I suspect, not really significant.
| opportune wrote:
| Steroid users do it all the time and I haven't heard of
| steroid users dealing with infections much.
| scheme271 wrote:
| GLP-1 agonists are a bit more tricky since they are
| temperature sensitive and need to be injected. You'll really
| need to be careful to keep it sterile and handle it properly.
| Whether the "research chemical" will receive the proper care
| until it gets into your hands is something that you're
| literally gambling your health on.
| scheme271 wrote:
| It's not the only GLP-1 agonist out there. Victoza is another
| GLP-1 agonist and should be going generic in the US in a little
| over a year. It might already be available as a generic outside
| the US. There might be other GLP-1 agonists that are going
| generic soon as well.
| glonq wrote:
| What happens when you reach your target weight with drugs like
| this?
|
| After having learned _potentionally nothing_ about nutrition,
| exercise, and self-control, are you stuck on these meds for life
| out of fear of binge-eating back to your original weight?
|
| FWIW I'm on a hundred-pound roller coaster ride from 300lbs to
| 200lbs; currently ~215. I've learned a lot about discipline and
| sustainable habits along the way.
| op00to wrote:
| What happens when someone who was previously deeply depressed
| but feels better goes off an antidepressant? They learn to
| handle life, or they return to the drug if further treatment is
| needed. It's not a moral failing.
| opportune wrote:
| I've never been obese but after losing 30+ lbs of weight I
| found it a lot easier to live an active lifestyle and keep the
| weight off. Partly it was just that moving around was
| physically easier and less strenuous, but also that I was less
| self conscious and had higher self esteem.
|
| I imagine Ozempic will help with this even if people don't
| learn about nutrition per se. Though I think basically
| everybody knows nutrition, it's more about self control IME.
| beefman wrote:
| https://archive.is/MfXlm
| NickC25 wrote:
| My neighbor is on Ozempic. Guy was slightly chubby previously but
| has dropped like 30 pounds in record time. Now he looks pencil-
| thin.
|
| I guess that's a success, but he would be much healthier if he
| just didn't eat like crap and took an hour each day to exercise.
|
| Sad that the obvious route (diet and exercise) is skipped by so
| many people, who just want to continue their unhealthy lifestyles
| but not suffer the physical consequences of it.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Sometimes I see people have written a bug in code and I wonder
| why they didn't just do the obvious and write it without the
| bug.
|
| Personally, every time I'm about to introduce a bug I just
| choose to not do it.
| moonchrome wrote:
| I mean if you know ahead of time the thing you're doing is
| going to produce buggy code then yep your analogy holds.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Yeah, it's weird, right? But people keep putting use-after-
| free bugs everywhere. Like, do the OpenBSD guys not know
| that this is a bug (and worse, a security bug)? They keep
| putting them everywhere. A few years ago they stuck one in
| OpenSMTPD.
|
| Theo de Raadt would benefit from reading some Hacker News.
| moonchrome wrote:
| That's like saying obese people are the same as
| bodybuilders because they both eat surplus calories and
| have high BMI.
| furyofantares wrote:
| > Sad that the obvious route (diet and exercise) is skipped by
| so many people
|
| Many people also try it repeatedly for several years or even
| decades, failing all the while. There's also psychological
| issues that make this hard (possibly among other issues), and
| no pithy remedy like "try diet and exercise" for that (well,
| ok, sometimes people say "try therapy" this way, but we can
| include people who've included that for several years too.)
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| Unfortunately, suggesting that people eat less and exercise
| more doesn't seem to actually work that well. We've been trying
| that for decades and the obesity epidemic just keeps getting
| worse.
| shagymoe wrote:
| Have we though? I seriously doubt doctors are aggressively
| pushing eating well and exercising. Has anyone ever received
| a workout plan from their doctor besides some generic PT
| exercises? Do they develop nutrition plans tailored to you?
| Do they track your progress? Do they have any incentive for
| you to actually get better? Do they require regular blood
| tests and include all the tests that might actually tell them
| something?
|
| The answer is a resounding no. None of that. Even if you
| request a blood test, they will include the absolute bare
| minimum and fight you when you request something like vitamin
| D or testosterone. General healthcare in the US is farce. You
| must be your own doctor, do your own research and fight for
| the care you need and also tolerate doctors telling you that
| you don't know what you're talking about. Besides being
| prescribed antibiotics, no doctor has ever fixed any problem
| I've ever had. I had to do it myself.
| iwanttocomment wrote:
| _I seriously doubt doctors are aggressively pushing eating
| well and exercising._
|
| Have you ever... been to a doctor when you've been obese? I
| assure you that they will indeed push eating well and
| exercising to obese people. Even when you've already been
| eating well and exercising. This will not be an
| intervention by the PCP themselves - your primary can
| really just refer people to substantial interventions - but
| they will try to refer you to one of three things.
|
| First, they will recommend a book on healthy eating and
| exercising.
|
| Second, there is behavioral weight loss, which generally is
| a combination of an appetite-suppression medication like
| phentermine and a Very Low Calorie Diet through a pre-made
| controlled calorie diet (such as Medifast or Optifast). A
| program like this will absolutely require weigh-ins and
| blood tests.
|
| Third, they will recommend surgical weight loss, most
| likely gastric bypass, such as Roux-en-Y. There are
| guaranteed to be medical follow-ups after the surgery.
|
| If you are not clinically obese, and that's great, no, your
| PCP will not provide that type of advice. They're not there
| to help you with subclinical concerns with weight. There
| are plenty of dietitians out there who can.
|
| Anyway, that's not a resounding no - it is extremely common
| to be referred to these programs if you have any
| substantial level of obesity. If you're obese, and you
| haven't been referred to these programs by your PCP, that
| might be an issue with your primary.
|
| What's exciting about these new peptides is that a simple
| once-a-week injection might be able to be prescribed by a
| primary with limited intervention or without outside
| specialists or surgery and still have good results in terms
| of weight-loss, as opposed to the truly exhausting
| requirements of a medically-assisted VLCD or weight loss
| surgery.
|
| Finally, I have no idea what you're talking about Vitamin
| D. I've both been diagnosed with a Vitamin D deficiency by
| my primary (through blood tests!), and Vitamin D
| supplements are easily available over the counter without a
| prescription.
| NickC25 wrote:
| Probably because people aren't acting on it, or sticking with
| it long enough to actually see results.
|
| Especially in today's world when they can just take a pill
| and loose 10-15 pounds, nobody wants to do something they
| probably don't like doing (consistent exercise or healthy
| eating) as part of a short-term or long-term process.
|
| A lot of people, especially those in food deserts or without
| access to adequate nutrition on a consistent basis (or those
| who cannot afford quality food, or those unable to prepare it
| properly) are not going to undergo something where change is
| gradual versus taking a magic pill, side effects be damned.
| Sad, but that's the world we live in.
| akiselev wrote:
| https://archive.ph/1waP9
| omgmajk wrote:
| I was on ozempic for a bit but it raised my resting pulse from
| 65ish to 95ish just sitting at my computer so I had to stop
| taking it.
| bitwize wrote:
| The cure for everything and secret to longevity is still fasting.
| These miracle diabetes drugs (including Metformin) have turned
| out to be mostly fasting with extra steps.
| tboyd47 wrote:
| [flagged]
| roywiggins wrote:
| Wegovy- semaglutide- is approved for weight loss "in adults
| with obesity or overweight with at least one weight-related
| condition (such as high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, or
| high cholesterol)":
|
| https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-appr...
| trasz4 wrote:
| One works, the other doesn't.
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